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HOT TOPIC Significant Change to Upwork coming in May 2019... “Pay to Bid”

PizzaOnTheRoof

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IDK why some of you have a problem with a 20% fee on clients served on a silver platter.

A good salesperson would laugh you out the door at that rate.
Because Upwork isn’t like a salesperson. It doesn’t sell your services for you, it doesn’t tackle objections, find needs, or create deals to get you more business.

Upwork is the flea market equivalent of sales.
 

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Xeon

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Upwork's fees for clients are expensive AF.
For a project around $400 - $800, it can be anywhere from $70 - $100+.
 

NewManRising

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I am mixed on this move. On one hand I see that it will reduce competition and improve the quality of the pool of freelancers. But on the other hand, it will also drive some good freelancers off. When I got the email my first thought was to leave Upwork right away (which is something I had been planning). But, I still think that even paying up to 90 cents for a job is OK if the job nets you a few hundred dollars. But, i wonder how this will play out with maintaining Top Rated statuses, you need to be active weekly. I put in on proposal a week just to appear like I am active because I get multiple invites daily and don't really need to send in proposals.

The other thing is, once they started charging for connects they will gradually raise the rates. It could end up being $1 per connect in the future.

These clients that look for cheap $5 writers are going to get boned. Now that people have to pay, on top of the fee, there is nothing left with a $5 gig. So, these clients and the foreign writers are gonna get hit hard.
 

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Upwork's fees for clients are expensive AF.
For a project around $400 - $800, it can be anywhere from $70 - $100+.
Agreed.

But if the freelancer is giving value that gives up to 3X-5X of the total project cost, why not?

It's like paying for more money.
That's why I have a value guarantee policy of sorts. If I see I can't provide value in the next few weeks for a long-term gig, I quickly discuss with my client if we should go separate ways before time and money is wasted. It's not always the case that I can't provide value though, but its that sometimes ideas and preferences clash.

I am mixed on this move. On one hand I see that it will reduce competition and improve the quality of the pool of freelancers. But on the other hand, it will also drive some good freelancers off. When I got the email my first thought was to leave Upwork right away (which is something I had been planning). But, I still think that even paying up to 90 cents for a job is OK if the job nets you a few hundred dollars. But, i wonder how this will play out with maintaining Top Rated statuses, you need to be active weekly. I put in on proposal a week just to appear like I am active because I get multiple invites daily and don't really need to send in proposals.

The other thing is, once they started charging for connects they will gradually raise the rates. It could end up being $1 per connect in the future.

These clients that look for cheap $5 writers are going to get boned. Now that people have to pay, on top of the fee, there is nothing left with a $5 gig. So, these clients and the foreign writers are gonna get hit hard.
I think it will all even out.

New freelancers should come in to take the places of the ones that left.

Come to think of it, its no different from going diesel-and-coffee to meet offline clients.
Instead of paying for connects, there's transport costs and other things to think of, and many times, it could be higher than just the few dollars one pays for Upwork connects.

Haha, then all the cheap a$$ writers will go to freelancer.com and do their crap there!
 

Xeon

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Agreed.

But if the freelancer is giving value that gives up to 3X-5X of the total project cost, why not?

It's like paying for more money.
That's why I have a value guarantee policy of sorts. If I see I can't provide value in the next few weeks for a long-term gig, I quickly discuss with my client if we should go separate ways before time and money is wasted. It's not always the case that I can't provide value though, but its that sometimes ideas and preferences clash
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Upwork charges a % of the fees to the freelancer and not the client right?
I've hired quite a few freelancers there over the years and I don't remember getting billed for it, although the freelancer themselves do get charged on their end, which is why they tack on the additional cost to their fees.

I always have a temptation to ask the freelancer off-site out of Upwork so we can all save the $$$. I mean, the $$$ pay to Upwork can be better spent on the freelancer instead.
 

ZF Lee

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Upwork charges a % of the fees to the freelancer and not the client right?
I've hired quite a few freelancers there over the years and I don't remember getting billed for it, although the freelancer themselves do get charged on their end, which is why they tack on the additional cost to their fees.

I always have a temptation to ask the freelancer off-site out of Upwork so we can all save the $$$. I mean, the $$$ pay to Upwork can be better spent on the freelancer instead.
Yes, on the cut for the freelancer, of course. I guess it's their default way of keeping the lights on for Upwork.

But it's against Upwork's policies for freelancers to bring clients out.

And they'll tag your messages if they contain words like 'skype' and 'email'.

As I mentioned in my progress thread, my client invited me to talk on Zoom. I don't think Zoom has been used that commonly by freelancers on Upwork yet, so Upwork didn't tag it. So I went with it.

I just let clients have the first word.
 

ZF Lee

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I'm just following the @Lex DeVille 's 15 day copywriting course to work on upwork. I feel intimidated.
Yup, I was pretty scared myself too when I first started to write my first copy and work with a client.

What specifically do you feel scared about?

My specific fear in the beginning was if 'Lex's stuff works' lol....

Don't worry about these cost changes on Upwork. Shouldn't happen until much later.
And you won't use up all your starting connects to send out your first proposals, if you do the You-focused steps.

I've only used 10 connects max for a round of proposals before, and had 45% response rate.

So I cut down my proposal numbers, and only picked jobs I 100% could deliver on because I did something like that before.
Had 3 out of 4 folks respond.
 

ProcessPro

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Yup, I was pretty scared myself too when I first started to write my first copy and work with a client.

What specifically do you feel scared about?

My specific fear in the beginning was if 'Lex's stuff works' lol....

Don't worry about these cost changes on Upwork. Shouldn't happen until much later.
And you won't use up all your starting connects to send out your first proposals, if you do the You-focused steps.

I've only used 10 connects max for a round of proposals before, and had 45% response rate.

So I cut down my proposal numbers, and only picked jobs I 100% could deliver on because I did something like that before.
Had 3 out of 4 folks respond.
Thanks! My concern is these changes. I'm still working through the 15 day forum and some other materials.

Still need to get in some practice before I go on upwork. In the meantime I'm intermittently looking at the jobs being posted. The potential earnings keep me excited, and indeed I have noticed jobs I feel quite confident I can handle, and there are others that make me go 'wtf?'. Lol.

Thanks alot for your response and your willingness to address my fears.

If I can help enough people to merit $1k a month, I'd be happy. That can support my needs while I work on my real fastlane idea.

How long have you started on upwork and what has your experience been like?
 

ApparentHorizon

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Because Upwork isn’t like a salesperson. It doesn’t sell your services for you, it doesn’t tackle objections, find needs, or create deals to get you more business.

Upwork is the flea market equivalent of sales.
It brings in qualified clients served on a silver platter, who are ready to buy. And you only pay for a completed job (for now).

Not sure what more you want at that rate.

Check out Lex's upwork thread, and watch how he tackles objections. You can find them in the client's description and address them there. Then you get a convo going and tackle any remaining points they bring up.

It doesn’t sell your services for you, it doesn’t tackle objections, find needs, or create deals to get you more business.
You want them to complete the project for you while you're at it?
 

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ZF Lee

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Thanks! My concern is these changes. I'm still working through the 15 day forum and some other materials.

Still need to get in some practice before I go on upwork. In the meantime I'm intermittently looking at the jobs being posted. The potential earnings keep me excited, and indeed I have noticed jobs I feel quite confident I can handle, and there are others that make me go 'wtf?'. Lol.

Thanks alot for your response and your willingness to address my fears.

If I can help enough people to merit $1k a month, I'd be happy. That can support my needs while I work on my real fastlane idea.

How long have you started on upwork and what has your experience been like?
Started around last year.

Earned some bucks, but progress stalled because I got pulled in by misplanned university work and bad influences.

So I restarted a month ago, knowing better, and I'm on track to hit the thousand-buck mark soon.

For clients, I've met the following:
1. Low-life scammers who steal your work or pay peanuts. They are the ones to avoid.

2. Clients who don't know much about the job they want to get done, but need to get done.
You can use even your simple, fundamental knowledge to provide value to them.

You can act like a consultant of sorts and choose not to charge them for it.

3. Clients who are actually actively looking for freelancers to train up and rope in as full-time folks.
These clients mostly already know a lot about the job and its field, and can tell you a thing or two that you might not know!

For instance, I might find myself working with a marketing manager who knows his stuff on email copy.

Pretty good if you want to get right into how a regular firm does its SOP and management processes without having to climb to corporate ladder. But expect to commit some time and effort, which may restrict you from other gigs or Fastlane stuff.
 

ProcessPro

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Started around last year.

Earned some bucks, but progress stalled because I got pulled in by misplanned university work and bad influences.

So I restarted a month ago, knowing better, and I'm on track to hit the thousand-buck mark soon.

For clients, I've met the following:
1. Low-life scammers who steal your work or pay peanuts. They are the ones to avoid.

2. Clients who don't know much about the job they want to get done, but need to get done.
You can use even your simple, fundamental knowledge to provide value to them.

You can act like a consultant of sorts and choose not to charge them for it.

3. Clients who are actually actively looking for freelancers to train up and rope in as full-time folks.
These clients mostly already know a lot about the job and its field, and can tell you a thing or two that you might not know!

For instance, I might find myself working with a marketing manager who knows his stuff on email copy.

Pretty good if you want to get right into how a regular firm does its SOP and management processes without having to climb to corporate ladder. But expect to commit some time and effort, which may restrict you from other gigs or Fastlane stuff.
Thanks for the detailed response! I'm excited to get started! I notice that alot of people are looking for SEO optimized content. Did you learn SEO?
 

AlexVilch

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Wasn't this used way before Upwork, on Elance - oDesk. Freelancer would buy "bid packages" and use those to bid on projects. I mean it only worked to make those just starting out feel intimidated. Scammers still scammed, big guns still did bids. There were a lot less bids, but maybe because times were different.
 

ZF Lee

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Thanks for the detailed response! I'm excited to get started! I notice that alot of people are looking for SEO optimized content. Did you learn SEO?
Not yet. Will take a look at Moz's guide if I have time.

I did notice some clients asking for that.

Still, for copywriting, the actual human customer's response counts far greater than SEO.
And clients know that. So most of the time, they do not ask for it, or need it.

It also depends on the medium of your task. If you are doing email or sending case studies directly to people, then SEO not needed! :)
 

ZF Lee

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Wasn't this used way before Upwork, on Elance - oDesk. Freelancer would buy "bid packages" and use those to bid on projects. I mean it only worked to make those just starting out feel intimidated. Scammers still scammed, big guns still did bids. There were a lot less bids, but maybe because times were different.
Haha....I have an account on freelancer.

Conditions still the same. Even on Reddit, the folks bitched louder about freelancer than Upwork.

I have used a few You-focused proposals on there, but prospects are simply blind to it.
Out of 5 proposals, 0 response.
And around 70% of clients are dangerously not payment-verified or have sketchy details for jobs and profile.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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It brings in qualified clients served on a silver platter, who are ready to buy. And you only pay for a completed job (for now).

Not sure what more you want at that rate.

Check out Lex's upwork thread, and watch how he tackles objections. You can find them in the client's description and address them there. Then you get a convo going and tackle any remaining points they bring up.
Lex is still the one to sell the client through the proposal and subsequent conversations.

You want them to complete the project for you while you're at it
Nope, I don’t expect a salesperson to either, and they’ll charge a much higher fee.

Upwork is an excellent tool and opportunity to to connect with potential clients.

I just think a 20% fee in perpetuity is a little steep for platform that merely connects people.
 

ApparentHorizon

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Lex is still the one to sell the client through the proposal and subsequent conversations.


Nope, I don’t expect a salesperson to either, and they’ll charge a much higher fee.

Upwork is an excellent tool and opportunity to to connect with potential clients.

I just think a 20% fee in perpetuity is a little steep for platform that merely connects people.
It's not in perpetuity. People who do volume and/or high tickets get special treatment. It's true for any platform you go on on, not just UW.

The fee is upon a successful connection.

Which you can use to either expand your network or pad your portfolio.

You don't have to use it as a main source of income. That would be insanity.

Try looking at 4-5 figure contracts. Your perception will quickly change.
 

moneytree3006

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I actually love using Upwork to find freelancers to hire. Actually just hired 2 this morning...

I will admit you do have to sort through the candidates pretty carefully to make sure they're actually able to complete the task they claim to be able to.

However I have never tried looking for work on Upwork so I can't really comment on what bidding will do to opportunities.
 

itfactor

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I just think a 20% fee in perpetuity is a little steep for platform that merely connects people.
As much as I HATE the big chunk of fees Upwork skims from my hard work, I think this is a move in the right direction.

Why?

Because the fees are tier-based. Upwork takes 20% for the first $500, then it drops to 10% at $500.01 until you reach $10,000 (where it stays at 5%).

This encourages the freelancer to start charging higher fees from the get-go (which they should if they are competent) to cut Upwork's fee in half.

Another benefit is that both parties will work towards getting into a more trusting relationship in order to cut out Upwork as a middleman.
 

itfactor

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For clients, I've met the following:
1. Low-life scammers who steal your work or pay peanuts. They are the ones to avoid.

2. Clients who don't know much about the job they want to get done, but need to get done.
You can use even your simple, fundamental knowledge to provide value to them.

You can act like a consultant of sorts and choose not to charge them for it.

3. Clients who are actually actively looking for freelancers to train up and rope in as full-time folks.
These clients mostly already know a lot about the job and its field, and can tell you a thing or two that you might not know!

For instance, I might find myself working with a marketing manager who knows his stuff on email copy.

Pretty good if you want to get right into how a regular firm does its SOP and management processes without having to climb to corporate ladder. But expect to commit some time and effort, which may restrict you from other gigs or Fastlane stuff.
Would love to hear what is your thought process in filtering out clients from group 1 out from the rest.
 

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ZF Lee

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Would love to hear what is your thought process in filtering out clients from group 1 out from the rest.
Easiest way to start is price.

See what they say they will pay, and compare it with the rest in the job search list.

Think about how challenging the job is. Obviously, tough ones (such as writing a 10-email series for keto products) get a higher price point. It's an art to see which price points meets your expectations, to adapt to your own pricing, and what seems challenging or worth it to you is different for everybody else.

If someone offers to pay $10 for that keto email series job, no go. Cheapster alert!

I've seen a job from the Phillippines, wanting a ghost writer to do an ENTIRE finance (Slowlane?) book for mums, for the grand pay of $10. Stupid price, considering that finance can be a tough topic, especially if you branch away from savings into financial instruments, insurance and such.

Look at how they write the jobs description.

If its too brief, like 2 sentence long, like 'write me some blog posts', it can be a red flag.
Great clients take the time to tell you what they need.
They'll tell you upfront what they don't want from you (maybe past freelancers burned them), what they favour, whether they want you to look at a website or blog that they draw inspiration from.

Even if that prospect isn't a bad egg, you may be sure that he won't know how to direct you to get the job done, and may end up unhappy when you deliver work he didn't ask for (as he didn't detail it specifically).

Try to pick clients who know what they are doing.

On stealing work...hard to say how to filter.
You sometimes don't know whether an egg has a snake in it until it hatches.

I've asked about how to deal with work-stealers at an AWAI webinar before.
The speaker just said that there's no such thing as a 100% original work, especially for writing, and that there's a lot more good clients than bad ones. TLDR? Don't worry about it. Just do what you do, and move on.

EDIT: And yes, ask your clients about anything you aren't sure about.
Even if it sounds stupid or weak.
I even ask to confirm small details like deadlines or job needs that have already been given.
Ask, ask, ask.

Their answers will tell you who they are.

If the reply sounds consistently like a drunken man around New Year's, that may not be a good client.
Thankfully, I haven't run into one yet!
 
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srodrigo

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If someone offers to pay $10 for that keto email series job, no go. Cheapster alert!
The vast majority of clients looking for software developers are like that. Example that took me 1 minute to find:
Need Android UI only, mock up done. Please apply only if you can do pixel perfect UI exactly like mock up spec. - $20 fixed price
The funniest thing is when they set "$$ Intermediate level".

It could be that they just don't have a clue, and don't realise that for 20 bucks most people wouldn't even open the IDE. Maybe a chat with them would change their expectations? Maybe (although from $20 to probably a few thousands is over 100x their initial expectation, big gap). But again, too many red flags: price, absolute lack of description (UI for what? How many screens? Any custom animations? etc.), $20/h average rate paid, etc.

I'll try when I get approved, but at first glance, most programming jobs sound pretty bad. The only ones that look reasonable are the ones where people offer long-term contracts, and it looks more like contracting/day job, than freelancing.
 

ZF Lee

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The vast majority of clients looking for software developers are like that. Example that took me 1 minute to find:


The funniest thing is when they set "$$ Intermediate level".

It could be that they just don't have a clue, and don't realise that for 20 bucks most people wouldn't even open the IDE. Maybe a chat with them would change their expectations? Maybe (although from $20 to probably a few thousands is over 100x their initial expectation, big gap). But again, too many red flags: price, absolute lack of description (UI for what? How many screens? Any custom animations? etc.), $20/h average rate paid, etc.

I'll try when I get approved, but at first glance, most programming jobs sound pretty bad. The only ones that look reasonable are the ones where people offer long-term contracts, and it looks more like contracting/day job, than freelancing.
Sometimes the problem with standards like 'Expert' or 'Intermediate', is that they are very general benchmarks.

I had clients who could do my task in a pinch, but they didn't have the time to do it. For them, the task was 'easy'.
But for some, who just hired it out because they didn't know what to do, it may seem 'challenging for them'.

You won't always know the client's mind as to whether a real expertise is required for the job, so do your best to get them into your chatbox with a decent proposal, and then chat. So yes, correct of you to chat with the folks to find out what they have in mind. Won't hurt your chances of getting into good jobs as long as you are willing to help them out with at least some advice.

Don't be too caught up with the red flags risk. I know this sounds cliche, but your gut will tell you to go in or not. But here's what I usually do for practicality:

To filter the programming jobs, just adjust the search options to go for higher price points above the hundred-bucks. The more lucrative jobs tend to have more serious-minded clients who mean business.

And I like to look for clients who have already gave feedback on other freelancers (even better if they are in your same field). If they are bad, then you can just simply step in with a proposal to do work that cleans up their mess. Very few clients will have this kind of opportunity, but that's what I like. There's nothing clearer than a client who needs help after someone trashed his yard.

For long-term contracts, that's where the money (and experience-gaining) is at. I haven't wrote a proposal in weeks, as old clients are giving me more jobs, and its a matter of time that I raise rates again.

Not every long-term contract needs to be a job. Past clients of mine do not hound on me like regular bosses do, as long as I deliver work on time, and I inform them earlier if I will be late on delivering some work. However, that means you are accountable to plan your work out. If you procrastinate, or sleep on the job, you'd be in trouble (happened to me before).

Ask for terms and negotiate as to how many times do you need to meet with the client online, disclaimers on what you CAN'T do, and so on. Tell them upfront what you can do, and what you CAN'T do.
If they offer to train you on the spot, just say 'let's go for a few weeks or days, and then we see how'.

And 'on-the-job training' can be a good indicator on whether the client is serious.

I had one who just sent me Jay Abraham tapes for a copywriting task, but didn't explain to me how they specifically related to the task at hand.
He then disappeared into the mist after the first few drafts for an e-commerce product description, and that was the end.

On-the-job training should be something like regular feedback, the client telling you what's good or bad about your work, what works in the industry, and the same stuff to be shared by you as well. Basically, the verbal exchange that is similar to what we have here on the Forum. That's what to look for, if you want to freelance to gain industry experience.

EDIT: Not sure if I can share it here, but I just got an email from Ben Settle promoting his Email Players product as usual, but he shared something interesting.

He claimed Amazon might tank in the future, as its model relies heavily on pricing goods as cheaply as possible.

However, Ben advocated finding ways to keep prices UP...that would need more work on upping the value game to support that high price point.
He provided an example- Disney.

Go for a Disney outing, or see their merchandise.
Aside from ripoffs, you never see a cheap Disney product or outing. They lay out all the goodies, Cinderella and Mickey and all, without dropping prices heavily, as Amazon does. So Ben stated that ultimately, the higher prices would give Disney more profit firepower to outlast Amazon.

One may argue that Disney and Amazon are on different markets, but do customers really care about markets when they buy anything they want?
 
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srodrigo

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Sometimes the problem with standards like 'Expert' or 'Intermediate', is that they are very general benchmarks.

I had clients who could do my task in a pinch, but they didn't have the time to do it. For them, the task was 'easy'.
But for some, who just hired it out because they didn't know what to do, it may seem 'challenging for them'.

You won't always know the client's mind as to whether a real expertise is required for the job, so do your best to get them into your chatbox with a decent proposal, and then chat. So yes, correct of you to chat with the folks to find out what they have in mind. Won't hurt your chances of getting into good jobs as long as you are willing to help them out with at least some advice.

Don't be too caught up with the red flags risk. I know this sounds cliche, but your gut will tell you to go in or not. But here's what I usually do for practicality:

To filter the programming jobs, just adjust the search options to go for higher price points above the hundred-bucks. The more lucrative jobs tend to have more serious-minded clients who mean business.

And I like to look for clients who have already gave feedback on other freelancers (even better if they are in your same field). If they are bad, then you can just simply step in with a proposal to do work that cleans up their mess. Very few clients will have this kind of opportunity, but that's what I like. There's nothing clearer than a client who needs help after someone trashed his yard.

For long-term contracts, that's where the money (and experience-gaining) is at. I haven't wrote a proposal in weeks, as old clients are giving me more jobs, and its a matter of time that I raise rates again.

Not every long-term contract needs to be a job. Past clients of mine do not hound on me like regular bosses do, as long as I deliver work on time, and I inform them earlier if I will be late on delivering some work. However, that means you are accountable to plan your work out. If you procrastinate, or sleep on the job, you'd be in trouble (happened to me before).

Ask for terms and negotiate as to how many times do you need to meet with the client online, disclaimers on what you CAN'T do, and so on. Tell them upfront what you can do, and what you CAN'T do.
If they offer to train you on the spot, just say 'let's go for a few weeks or days, and then we see how'.

And 'on-the-job training' can be a good indicator on whether the client is serious.

I had one who just sent me Jay Abraham tapes for a copywriting task, but didn't explain to me how they specifically related to the task at hand.
He then disappeared into the mist after the first few drafts for an e-commerce product description, and that was the end.

On-the-job training should be something like regular feedback, the client telling you what's good or bad about your work, what works in the industry, and the same stuff to be shared by you as well. Basically, the verbal exchange that is similar to what we have here on the Forum. That's what to look for, if you want to freelance to gain industry experience.

EDIT: Not sure if I can share it here, but I just got an email from Ben Settle promoting his Email Players product as usual, but he shared something interesting.

He claimed Amazon might tank in the future, as its model relies heavily on pricing goods as cheaply as possible.

However, Ben advocated finding ways to keep prices UP...that would need more work on upping the value game to support that high price point.
He provided an example- Disney.

Go for a Disney outing, or see their merchandise.
Aside from ripoffs, you never see a cheap Disney product or outing. They lay out all the goodies, Cinderella and Mickey and all, without dropping prices heavily, as Amazon does. So Ben stated that ultimately, the higher prices would give Disney more profit firepower to outlast Amazon.

One may argue that Disney and Amazon are on different markets, but do customers really care about markets when they buy anything they want?
Thanks man, that's valuable information!

I didn't know you can filter by price. Now I can, probably because I'm logged-in.

Good look with finding long-term jobs :)
 

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Good look with finding long-term jobs :)
Here's an additional benefit with having long-term clients.

I just had one who wanted some work done for her job descriptions.
It needed some info from her past tasks, which I still kept copies of.

So all I needed to do was to get the info, and slightly modify it, instead of doing the task entirely from scratch.

When you've worked with a client for some time, you have built a small repository of work, a portfolio, about the client's needs at hand. Like a swipe file specially designed for the client. And this swipe file contains all the info you know about how to solve his problems according to his personal whims.

So every subsequent work you do with him or her is easier, because you have something that serves as a benchmark, swipe file or past record.

Its like being a long-time doctor to a regular eczema patient. As the patient has gotten creams from the doctor before, the doctor knows what the patient took before and how his skin reacted to them. He would also know what the patient eats, and what time he sleeps.

So if the patient's skin flared up later on, the doctor won't have a problem knowing the nature of the flare-up, and how to change the treatment or medication to fit to the dynamics. He doesn't need to diagnose and treat from scratch.
 

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I see Upwork continues to "squeeze the towel" to appease their new mission of profit maximization and appeasing shareholders.

As I outlined in Unscripted when a company goes public, the stakeholder demotion begins in full swing. Customers get shitlisted in favor of Wall Street, shareholders, and analysts. In many respects, going public marks the start of a slow demise, the event when a company shifts from a customer-centered philosophy to a shareholder centered mission. As such you get...

Higher prices, more bullshit, less value.

Looks at this little doozy -- the bullshit corporate narrative always tries to make it sound like they're doing these things for your betterment. No assholes, you're doing it to maximize your profitability. Within this little shit-dribbling message of course, there's a price increase.


Screen Shot 2019-06-12 at 9.36.11 AM.png
 
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holmzee

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I see Upwork continues to "squeeze the towel" to appease their new mission of profit maximization and appeasing shareholders.

As I outlined in Unscripted when a company goes public, the stakeholder demotion begins in full swing. Customers get shitlisted in favor of Wall Street, shareholders, and analysts. In many respects, going public marks the start of a slow demise, the event when a company shifts from a customer-centered philosophy to a shareholder centered mission. As such you get...

Higher prices, more bullshit, less value.

Looks at this little doozy -- the bullshit corporate narrative always tries to make it sound like they're doing these things for your betterment. No assholes, you're doing it to maximize your profitability. Within this little shit-dribbling message of course, there's a price increase.


View attachment 25032
I like how they use the word retiring, as if they didn't just change a single piece of code in their payment processor from 2.75% to 3%.
 

ZF Lee

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I see Upwork continues to "squeeze the towel" to appease their new mission of profit maximization and appeasing shareholders.

As I outlined in Unscripted when a company goes public, the stakeholder demotion begins in full swing. Customers get shitlisted in favor of Wall Street, shareholders, and analysts. In many respects, going public marks the start of a slow demise, the event when a company shifts from a customer-centered philosophy to a shareholder centered mission. As such you get...

Higher prices, more bullshit, less value.

Looks at this little doozy -- the bullshit corporate narrative always tries to make it sound like they're doing these things for your betterment. No assholes, you're doing it to maximize your profitability. Within this little shit-dribbling message of course, there's a price increase.


View attachment 25032
At this rate, is there next to little benefit for companies to go public at all?
Why do firms need to go public then?
Is it possible to go public while retaining value and good practices?

I'll see if my clients complain about this increased cost to me.
Then maybe we'd see everyone complaining the changes away.
 

Merging Left

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At this rate, is there next to little benefit for companies to go public at all?
Why do firms need to go public then?
Is it possible to go public while retaining value and good practices?
Firms go public because they can raise a boatload of cash, without needing to pay it back, unlike debt. The owners give up equity in exchange for cash. It's different than just raising capital from private or institutional investors, however, in that by going public you spread the shares among thousands, if not tens of thousands of people, so no one "owner" (shareholder) can actually force you into making a certain decision. When you raise private equity, you often give up board seats to the private equity firm, which in turn gives up some level of control.

Is it possible to go public and remain customer-focused? Maybe. There is a definite conflict of interest between trying to please customers and trying to please Wall Street analysts. On the one hand, if you F*ck the customer too hard, you'll lose them and the business will suffer. On the other hand, if you're too value-oriented, your earnings will not grow at the rate that WS wants to see, and your stock price will suffer. It's a delicate balancing act, but going public absolutely, and maybe inevitably, limits a company's ability to remain entirely customer-centric.
 

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