Should I learn digital marketing or coding as a 17yo?

[hoponthebop]

Im 17yo and I want to stop wasting time and learn smth useful. I want to learn CS in college (last year of high school) but i want to start learning something/ i want to start making online too.

I've heard there are tons of ppl makiing thousands with digital marketing. I've tried instagram marketing but failed miserably.

What should I learn?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Olimac21]

Why not learning both? You are still young so you could try both and see which one you like the most?are better at and then decide or combine them in creative ways for your career.

 

[astr0]

Both are good.

They're actually pretty similar. Both require some strategic thinking, optimizations, analysis, and planning.
Marketing includes some copywriting, psychology and design.
Coding includes learning languages, splitting complex concepts into smaller and simpler ones and thinking as the machine.

Learning both would be great.
Both are "marketable skills", meaning you can definitely sell them.
Marketing may have a broader application though. Programming is only for software & hardware (which runs software).
While marketing can be applied to any product or service.

Learn a little about both. Then focus on the one you liked most and learn another one later.

 

[lowtek]

In my experience, these are perpendicular skill sets. A marketing mind is not the same as a programming mind. Understanding how to solve an algorithmic problem and understanding what makes people buy are two distinct things.

If your math skills are good, and you can already do some programming, I would go for the CS route.

If your math skills are weak and you can't program yet, then perhaps consider the marketing side.

If you git gud at either of those two, you will have an avenue for success.

The important thing is to make an honest assessment of your aptitudes and align your actions with that. Don't try to chase other peoples' success in DM if you're a coder by nature. You will only experience frustration and mediocre results, and ultimately regret at having wasted time.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[astr0]

In my experience, these are perpendicular skill sets. A marketing mind is not the same as a programming mind. Understanding how to solve an algorithmic problem and understanding what makes people buy are two distinct things.

People guided by logic and emotions, psychology studies that. Machines operate by strict formal (mathematical) rules.
That's probably the main difference.

In programming, you often think of casual effects, branches and explain it to machines. Same with marketing.
In programming, you split complex problems into smaller ones and focus on that. Same with brand building.

Yes, humans are different, but leaning an individual toward buying is Sales.
Marketing operates with people as a group, an audience. Mathematical statistics really helps there.
Your goal is to put something in front of the market and make them want to learn more about it.
Filtering the market from everyone else is done by the laser targeting, and you probably don't know your market up front. So that's a mathematical optimization process. For broad-appealing products, I never made any assumptions cause the math shows they are usually wrong anyway.
Making them take a look at your offer is psychology and split-testing the ads.
You definitely can't make it without knowing the reasons for individuals and figuring out the right angles (which is a subject to split-testing too).
Split-testing part is math too. Also, some Ads and angles work better for one part of the market, other for the other part.
A lot of optimizations...

I consider a web site with info more sales than marketing, but let's assume it's marketing cause it's for the leads as a whole.
Figuring out the overall theme and design is not the same as programming, but doesn't matter too much from the sales perspective too. As long as it doesn't look somewhere in between crap and decent (yes, crap sales, lol).
Coming with the right funnels, calls to action and probably even copywriting (strategy, not the text itself) is.
It's a very logical process overall.

Marketing is close to programming humans, lol.

If your math skills are good, and you can already do some programming, I would go for the CS route.

Most programming has little to do with math. Yet, the thinking is the same as with math.

If your math skills are weak and you can't program yet, then perhaps consider the marketing side.

Marketing is nearly impossible without math skills. It's more math than programming. Statistics & data analysis, split-testing, optimizations, etc.

If you git gud at either of those two, you will have an avenue for success.

The important thing is to make an honest assessment of your aptitudes and align your actions with that. Don't try to chase other peoples' success in DM if you're a coder by nature. You will only experience frustration and mediocre results, and ultimately regret at having wasted time.

Both are great.

I'm a coder by nature, yet, I got my hands dirty with affiliate marketing using paid traffic. Put 6 months into learning and doing this. Yes, haven't earned my monthly salary during that period, but the ROI was positive and pretty good for the time spent. Probably could do it full time if it wasn't full of scams to promote.

I wouldn't consider the time wasted, quite the opposite. I went into it to learn how to market products without building one myself, and I've reached my goal more or less.

@hoponthebop you should really stop money-chasing. It wouldn't end well. Find a way to provide value, it's really the only thing that works long-term. Pick any skill you like.

 

[hoponthebop]

I really need to stop money chasing tbh. I dont seem to enjoy nothing anymore, i just want to do it for the money. I was thinking of learning web design because it was fun and then money crossed my mind and I was thinking of ways how to make money with it and like instead of learning web design,im learning how to get clients for it. Wtf

 

[James Fake]

I really need to stop money chasing tbh. I dont seem to enjoy nothing anymore, i just want to do it for the money. I was thinking of learning web design because it was fun and then money crossed my mind and I was thinking of ways how to make money with it and like instead of learning web design,im learning how to get clients for it. Wtf

Nothing wrong at all about chasing money. It's not about just creating "pure value" either.. It's kind of a grey area of both blended that you want to seek.

I first learned web design because I wanted to make websites that made money off Adsense banner ad clicks. That was my motivation.. but don't confuse process with end goal. Just because your end goal is about money doesn't mean you shouldn't start the process. In short, what I am saying is this...

Go learn web design NOW. Don't worry about the end goal.. because to be totally honest with you.. You're going to fail at the 'making money part'. Like a 99.99% chance you will fail. But that's because your goal was to learn web design to make money and not learn web design then learn how to make money once I know how to make websites. Once you separate the two into two different goals because they take two different skills (one is creating product, the other is selling product).. You will be well on your way.

Good luck...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Forget "learning"? Which can you help folks with the soonest, and get paid to do it?

I did IT for 15 years and then digital marketing for the last 10 years. @eliquid is an IT guy doing digital marketing too.

If I had to pick something where someone can help people quickly and get paid for it, and where they have enough of a coding brain to write simple formulae in Excel, then I'd push them towards providing Google Ads as a service to local businesses.

When I lead a team of 35 Google Ads specialists, I noticed the top 10% (3-4) were the best ones with Excel. You don't need to be a hardcore coder to do well with Google Ads ... being decent with Excel can put you streets ahead of the competition (using IF, SUBSTITUTE, CONCATENATE, etc).


EDIT: Go and watch this and see if it interests you:

• (Video) Google Ads Audit

 

[csalvato]

In my experience, these are perpendicular skill sets. A marketing mind is not the same as a programming mind. Understanding how to solve an algorithmic problem and understanding what makes people buy are two distinct things.

With respect, I can't agree with this statement.

I personally do both very successfully. I'm a high paid programmer working on software products that impact millions of people...and I have has also successfully marketed products and affiliate offers, including getting 4000 email signups for a product within 2 weeks.

Literally every technical CEO in the valley from Bezos & Musk & Zuck down to the small players at companies like Close and Pipedrive are able to understand both.

I just had to dispel this because I can't articulate how much I disagree with this statement.

People can be good at more than one thing. In fact, you need to be good at >1 thing in a way that most people struggle with in order to be any sort of success (e.g. understanding the limo industry + software at the dawn of the internet; understanding physics of launching rocks + convincing gov't to give you grants).

For OP: If you're 17, do what you think you can be best in the world at...work on whichever you are drawn to. Both are valuable. Start where you can be strongest then branch out.

 

[lowtek]

With respect, I can't agree with this statement.

I personally do both very successfully. I'm a high paid programmer working on software products that impact millions of people...and I have has also successfully marketed products and affiliate offers, including getting 4000 email signups for a product within 2 weeks.

Literally every technical CEO in the valley from Bezos & Musk & Zuck down to the small players at companies like Close and Pipedrive are able to understand both.

I just had to dispel this because I can't articulate how much I disagree with this statement.

People can be good at more than one thing. In fact, you need to be good at >1 thing in a way that most people struggle with in order to be any sort of success (e.g. understanding the limo industry + software at the dawn of the internet; understanding physics of launching rocks + convincing gov't to give you grants).

For OP: If you're 17, do what you think you can be best in the world at...work on whichever you are drawn to. Both are valuable. Start where you can be strongest then branch out.

I believe you when you say you can do both with a high degree of competence.

that doesn't negate my point, however. Neither does pointing out the people who lead successful businesses. For every 1 person who has the mind to do both, there are 100 others that suck at one or both of marketing/programming. This is an example of survivor bias. We don't see the people who aren't able to do both, because they aren't leading successful businesses that get all the press.

I'm just playing the odds when I tell the OP to focus on natural strengths (which it sounds like you agree with me there), rather than trying to develop what I had originally argued were perpendicular skill sets.

Others disagreed with me and pointed out that there is a fair amount of analysis in marketing, which is true and a fair point. There is also a lot of copywriting and graphic design, which is what I was thinking of when I made my statement.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Dylan42]

Whether you choose digital marketing or programming you can go a long way with either. Or maybe you will find you don't want to do either of them.

For programming possibly try out Codecademy. With a google search you will see it's free or pay to play. It will give you a good start or taste to see if it peaks your interest.

Regardless, I am proud of the fact that you are wanting to learn such useful tools at such a young age! As others have stated, try both and see which you prefer. You still have many, many years left!!

 

[astr0]

I believe you when you say you can do both with a high degree of competence.

that doesn't negate my point, however. Neither does pointing out the people who lead successful businesses. For every 1 person who has the mind to do both, there are 100 others that suck at one or both of marketing/programming. This is an example of survivor bias. We don't see the people who aren't able to do both, because they aren't leading successful businesses that get all the press.

I'm just playing the odds when I tell the OP to focus on natural strengths (which it sounds like you agree with me there), rather than trying to develop what I had originally argued were perpendicular skill sets.

Others disagreed with me and pointed out that there is a fair amount of analysis in marketing, which is true and a fair point. There is also a lot of copywriting and graphic design, which is what I was thinking of when I made my statement.

Yeah, it may really be a survivor bias. I know dozen of programmers who don't know marketing and a few marketers that are not programmers. But I'm pretty they haven't even tried to learn both.

Focusing on natural strengths will definitely decrease the learning curve and will allow him to achieve better results long term.

Copywriting and design are definitely not the main skills, in my opinion. Strategy, angles, analysis, and optimization are really similar to programming.
Understanding human needs and desires aren't that hard. This actually feels kinda logical to me, even emotions. Just ask yourself who will probably buy your product and why they need/want it. Not the immediate need/goal, but the final one.
For example, for beauty products, the goal isn't to look nice, but to seduce a man or to feel younger or to feel happy.
Coming up with good angles isn't hard too, once you start thinking about individual people, their wants and what may get their attention (and read some good blogs and book). Copy for an add is really simple, so is the landing page and all the graphics design. I'm not good at it, yet did it myself and it worked.

My client knows a freelance copywriter and has an employee with graphics design skills.
I just come up with angles, tell her what's the background should be and really listen to her ideas too, sometimes they are much better, and she makes the banner.
After that, I usually also tell her to change some font sizes and maybe positions to make something stand out and something kinda fade. And it's ready.
For content marketing, the client just writes a short article in his words in Ukrainian and sends it to the copywriter. She translates it, but also makes it much better, longer and more interesting. Like she takes only facts and theme from the initial draft.

 

[csalvato]

I believe you when you say you can do both with a high degree of competence.

that doesn't negate my point, however. Neither does pointing out the people who lead successful businesses. For every 1 person who has the mind to do both, there are 100 others that suck at one or both of marketing/programming. This is an example of survivor bias. We don't see the people who aren't able to do both, because they aren't leading successful businesses that get all the press.

I'm just playing the odds when I tell the OP to focus on natural strengths (which it sounds like you agree with me there), rather than trying to develop what I had originally argued were perpendicular skill sets.

Others disagreed with me and pointed out that there is a fair amount of analysis in marketing, which is true and a fair point. There is also a lot of copywriting and graphic design, which is what I was thinking of when I made my statement.

I believe I misinterpreted your statement to mean "You can be good at one or the other but not both". I don't think that's actually what you meant. My apologies.

We definitely agree on pursuing your strengths and those things to which one is naturally drawn.

I believe I am triggered because it's a misconception that someone can be good (let alone excellent) at both marketing + programming. I am faced with this stereotype regularly, and it's simply not true (as I am a living example of this, and there are other examples, however rare we may be).

In general, mastering one discipline is very very difficult...let alone mastering two. I stand by the point that if you can master and marry two valuable skills (marketing, programming, product development, financial analysis, woodworking, whatever) in a way no one else can, you will be unstoppable.

In general, the belief that we need to pursue only one thing is flawed and limiting. As a polymath, my advice for aspiring polymaths is to start with one discipline and learn it with laser focus through complete immersion. Master it, and move onto another while maintaining your first skill set with regular practice.

I've tried instagram marketing but failed miserably.

You're going to fail miserably on the road to being good at anything. You'll do it often. Pick yourself up and try again.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

There’s a reason I suggested Google (paid search) Ads to start with for digital marketing. It suits a mathematical/programming mind.

“Oh, he searched for ‘plumbers dublin’. I’d better show an ad about plumbers in Dublin, and send him to to a page about plumbers in Dublin. Actually, I don’t care if it was a he or a she who searched, or any demographics data.”

“Oh, he/she searched for ‘plumber JOBS dublin’. I guess he’s not looking for the same thing as the first person. In fact... maybe those two people are looking for each other - at precisely that moment.”

I find this super simple.

Facebook? Instagram? Snapchat? Wtf?!?

 

[hoponthebop]

Forget "learning"? Which can you help folks with the soonest, and get paid to do it?

I did IT for 15 years and then digital marketing for the last 10 years. @eliquid is an IT guy doing digital marketing too.

If I had to pick something where someone can help people quickly and get paid for it, and where they have enough of a coding brain to write simple formulae in Excel, then I'd push them towards providing Google Ads as a service to local businesses.

When I lead a team of 35 Google Ads specialists, I noticed the top 10% (3-4) were the best ones with Excel. You don't need to be a hardcore coder to do well with Google Ads ... being decent with Excel can put you streets ahead of the competition (using IF, SUBSTITUTE, CONCATENATE, etc).


EDIT: Go and watch this and see if it interests you:

• (Video) Google Ads Audit

Im actually interested in Google Ads, I will take a look at it!

I believe you when you say you can do both with a high degree of competence.

that doesn't negate my point, however. Neither does pointing out the people who lead successful businesses. For every 1 person who has the mind to do both, there are 100 others that suck at one or both of marketing/programming. This is an example of survivor bias. We don't see the people who aren't able to do both, because they aren't leading successful businesses that get all the press.

I'm just playing the odds when I tell the OP to focus on natural strengths (which it sounds like you agree with me there), rather than trying to develop what I had originally argued were perpendicular skill sets.

Others disagreed with me and pointed out that there is a fair amount of analysis in marketing, which is true and a fair point. There is also a lot of copywriting and graphic design, which is what I was thinking of when I made my statement.

I think I do have a coding mind. Like I thinnk logically and when I think I like building logical models to reach a conclusion in everything i think about

 

[hoponthebop]

There’s a reason I suggested Google (paid search) Ads to start with for digital marketing. It suits a mathematical/programming mind.

“Oh, he searched for ‘plumbers dublin’. I’d better show an ad about plumbers in Dublin, and send him to to a page about plumbers in Dublin. Actually, I don’t care if it was a he or a she who searched, or any demographics data.”

“Oh, he/she searched for ‘plumber JOBS dublin’. I guess he’s not looking for the same thing as the first person. In fact... maybe those two people are looking for each other - at precisely that moment.”

I find this super simple.

Facebook? Instagram? Snapchat? Wtf?!?

Is there anything you would recommend to watch/read to start learning google ads?

Also, do I need to offer it to local services (which I dont think they I will accept here, I swear everyone in Portugal doesnt want to spend money, even if its to improve their business unless they immediate results) or can I just search services online and help them?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Is there anything you would recommend to watch/read to start learning google ads?

The first radio interview in my signature, then the link for the Google Ads/AdWords posts, and the local lead gen post.

Also, do I need to offer it to local services (which I dont think they I will accept here, I swear everyone in Portugal doesnt want to spend money, even if its to improve their business unless they immediate results) or can I just search services online and help them?

Ha. I've clients around the world. I started local, and it expanded.

 

[The Abundant Man]

I really need to stop money chasing tbh. I dont seem to enjoy nothing anymore, i just want to do it for the money. I was thinking of learning web design because it was fun and then money crossed my mind and I was thinking of ways how to make money with it and like instead of learning web design,im learning how to get clients for it. Wtf

If you want to make money why not just cut down a tree from your backyard and spend a month to turn it into paper money. The FBI might come knocking down your door though.

 

[astr0]

Also, do I need to offer it to local services (which I dont think they I will accept here, I swear everyone in Portugal doesnt want to spend money, even if its to improve their business unless they immediate results) or can I just search services online and help them?

Have you ever seen Google Ads of Portugal businesses? If so, someone is running them already. I bet even you can do that even in poorer Ukraine.
Just make sure that business owners would think of it as an investment and opportunity, not cost and expense.

Of course, you should try your best to deliver results they expected, which is not guaranteed. Don't promise them too much.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Ethan_Scott]

If you want to build yourself online and earn through that I would suggest you to first try to find your passion it can be in any where Instagram, facebook, yourtube or can be blogging also you will need to establish your self first online gain others trust and after that you can go for earning. I would suggest you to go for SEO first.