SEO Outsourcing?

[FeaRxUnLeAsHeD]

Anyone have experience outsourcing SEO work? I've got about 100 total pages (blog posts + website pages) of content for my business, and I'm looking to potentially outsource SEO work (find a freelancer) - I've heard some people mention on this forum that SEO isn't extremely relevant for getting web traffic. Thoughts?

 

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[DKNJ]

You may be able to find someone for cheap on elance? Internet marketing and creating traffic is a skill I am trying to learn myself.

 

[jesseissorude]

Don't waste your money, Chris. SEO is something for when you are really big and have a lot of money just burning a hole in your pocket.

As soon as you shell out big buxx for SEO, Google will change the rules again.

Preventing people from paying for rankings is what Google is all about. What doesn't change about their algorithm is that it looks for the most valuable content. Post stuff with good content, submit the site to google, and let it do its thing. Good rankings will come if your site provides value to readers.

 

[Tomek Obirek]

Learn everything at Lynda.com

 

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[Joe Davies]

Don't waste your money, Chris. SEO is something for when you are really big and have a lot of money just burning a hole in your pocket.

As soon as you shell out big buxx for SEO, Google will change the rules again.

Preventing people from paying for rankings is what Google is all about. What doesn't change about their algorithm is that it looks for the most valuable content. Post stuff with good content, submit the site to google, and let it do its thing. Good rankings will come if your site provides value to readers.

SEO certainly isn't something for when you're really big. Far from it. In actual fact, if you're really big, you don't need SEO at all.

Depending on your website, your end goals, your business model, SEO can be HUGE for your business. Without knowing more about it I can't comment, but I would certainly look into outsourcing it to an expert rather than learning yourself ( unless you really want to learn yourself, SEO is a great skill to have under your belt! ). It can be outsourced really cheap, but beware of spammy services

 

[theag]

Sure, outsource it if you have min. 5k/month to spend with a 24 month contract, because thats what the people who know their stuff will charge (if they are even taking on new clients and arent busy with their own projects, which are mostly far more profitable for them than consulting).

Most of the SEO freelancers you find dont know jack shit, because if they did, they wouldnt freelance.
All of the SEO freelancers you find on freelancer sites dont know jack shit, because if they did, they wouldnt be on there.

 

[borntodominate]

Am I the only one who has said F*ck seo? I honestly think its a waste of time at this point

 

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[Joe Davies]

Sure, outsource it if you have 3-4k/month to spend with a 24 month contract, because thats what the people who know their stuff will charge (if they are even taking on new clients and arent busy with their own projects, which are mostly far more profitable for them than consulting).

Most of the SEO freelancers you find dont know jack shit.
All of the SEO freelancers you find on freelancer sites dont know jack shit.

3-4k a month is what SEO agencies will charge yes to end clients.

If you are savvy and do some research, you'll realise that you can get the EXACT same thing for a fraction of the cost. Without contracts.

Let's say you have your website 100 pages of content.

You can make sure the onsite SEO is done yourself (title tags, keywords in the pages... no big deal at all.)

Then you can get some light link building done using a service from - social bookmarks, article directories, web directories to the homepage
and maybe some heavier link building for the more competitive terms

Use a company like http://www.submitedgeseo.com/ and you probably wont spend more than 1k over 6 months.

SEO agencies outsource to companies like http://www.submitedgeseo.com/ and markup their prices.

Trust me, I used to run an SEO agency, and I now run an outsourced SEO company and have done for the past 2 years.

 

[Joe Davies]

Just to add: It totally depends on your business model.

If you're starting an ecommerce store and you have the margins the first port of call would be PPC/Facebook Ads as you have control, and speed of results. You would maybe look at SEO later on.

If you're building a content site (an information site) and plan to make money from aff commissions or adsense etc, then SEO is definitely something you need to be thinking about right away. It may not seem very fastlane on the outside, but on scale, content sites with SEO can be BIG business.

 

[borntodominate]

Just to add: It totally depends on your business model.

If you're starting an ecommerce store and you have the margins the first port of call would be PPC/Facebook Ads as you have control, and speed of results. You would maybe look at SEO later on.

If you're building a content site (an information site) and plan to make money from aff commissions or adsense etc, then SEO is definitely something you need to be thinking about right away. It may not seem very fastlane on the outside, but on scale, content sites with SEO can be BIG business.

Let me ask you a question, how big is the benefit of seo these days?

 

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[theag]

Let me ask you a question, how big is the benefit of seo these days?

Its enormous if you do it right. Just like every other traffic source.

 

[Joe Davies]

Let me ask you a question, how big is the benefit of seo these days?

It's like asking whats the benefit of PPC these days? Or whats the benefit of Facebook Ads these days? OR direct mail?

It depends on the model of your business but...

If you are #1 for buyer keywords in your market, and your receiving floods of (free*) traffic everyday from potential buyers to your store/service/whatever, then the benefit is HUUUUGEE.

If I was a Mortgage Advisor in Staffordshire, and I was #1 for 'Mortgage Advisor Staffordshire', I think I'm receiving a nice bit of benefit there in the form of £££.

*free because once you've done the initial SEO work, the cost to maintain can be next to nothing. Once you're at #1 or page one for your keywords you can let off the steam with link building. As apposed to PPC where you pay for every click! (expensive in comparison).

SEO is huge for our business. The clients we work with, the SEO benefit is huge. I see it everyday.

SEO isn't the holy grail of success though, again, it depends on your model.

Some companies don't care about SEO if they have a big enough brand.

McDonalds wont beenfit from SEO. It's redundant. No ones searching for 'Burger Fast Food Chain'

Same with BMW, Apple, Facebook etc.

If you want to be a big brand, your primary focus wont be SEO.

SEO gets a lot of flack because theres a lot of scammy companies and idiots in the industry. It's a very SERIOUS, probably the biggest ROI marketing channel in my opinion.

 

[DKNJ]

Just to add: It totally depends on your business model.

If you're starting an ecommerce store and you have the margins the first port of call would be PPC/Facebook Ads as you have control, and speed of results. You would maybe look at SEO later on.

If you're building a content site (an information site) and plan to make money from aff commissions or adsense etc, then SEO is definitely something you need to be thinking about right away. It may not seem very fastlane on the outside, but on scale, content sites with SEO can be BIG business.

So it is more efficient to start with PPC/FB before SEO for an ecommerce site? I am trying to learn more about online marketing and creating traffic. I was under the impression that SEO was like a onetime payment job for the web development and up to you to keep updating since the rapid change in algorithms. Whereas PPC is pretty much passive outcome. I have a lot to learn. I just recently read the affiliate marketing thread by limitup. He mentioned how he lost a lot. I'm sure affiliate marketing is completely different though.

 

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[Joe Davies]

So it is more efficient to start with PPC/FB before SEO for an ecommerce site? I am trying to learn more about online marketing and creating traffic. I was under the impression that SEO was like a onetime payment job for the web development and up to you to keep updating since the rapid change in algorithms. Whereas PPC is pretty much passive outcome. I have a lot to learn. I just recently read the affiliate marketing thread by limitup. He mentioned how he lost a lot. I'm sure affiliate marketing is completely different though.

If you have the budget PPC/Ads is the way to go with an ecommerce store.

a) You have pure control, you spend X and make Y - assuming your product is in demand and will sell, its a no brainer
b) it is instant, no waiting, you can fail fast and do A/B testing on your offer rather than waiting 6-12 months for SEO to 'kick in'
c) PPC is predictable clicks/traffic, SEO isn't guaranteed at all - it may take months, even years to get where you want to be

Using only SEO can be tough on your patience to start ranking, and even then, there's no guarantees where you'll rank or how much traffic you'll get. It's OK if your on a shoestring budget but I would set aside some cash for predictable PPC if you're just starting out.

 

[DKNJ]

If you have the budget PPC/Ads is the way to go with an ecommerce store.

a) You have pure control, you spend X and make Y - assuming your product is in demand and will sell, its a no brainer
b) it is instant, no waiting, you can fail fast and do A/B testing on your offer rather than waiting 6-12 months for SEO to 'kick in'
c) PPC is predictable clicks/traffic, SEO isn't guaranteed at all - it may take months, even years to get where you want to be

Using only SEO can be tough on your patience to start ranking, and even then, there's no guarantees where you'll rank or how much traffic you'll get. It's OK if your on a shoestring budget but I would set aside some cash for predictable PPC if you're just starting out.

Thanks a lot for the advice. I am in a weird position. I am in the due diligence phase of investing in a company for equity. They have great products and are great with branding and intellectual property. Sales have declined because of the owners lack of focus and time. He appears semi burnt out from this business and has been working on another business which is far more lucrative (high entry level barrier) which I have been offered to invest for equity as well. There has been some bad reviews mainly from the customer service end and eventually resulted in a partnership dispute and F from the BBB. They're still making decent money and I like the business model because it can be reverse engineered to the bootstrap phase. I'm just thinking of ways to build the company back up. Maybe start a third party blog etc.

 

[theag]

bad reviews mainly from the customer service end

I'm just thinking of ways to build the company back up

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

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[Avus]

Outsourcing SEO is a very slippery slope. A lot of black/grey hat tactics that will hurt rather than help your rankings. I would definitely only work with people with a proven track record, and you are constantly in the loop as to what they are doing.


I learned this the hard way and got my Adsense account banned lol.

 

[FeaRxUnLeAsHeD]

Thanks for all the responses.

I am running an online fitness training website. I would want to setup certain keywords so that people can find me on the first page (or two) in google.

I've decided against SEO for now, based on when I ran some price quotes. It's going to cost at least $1500 to get the job done right, since I have about 70 pages (both pages and blog posts) worth of content. I haven't done *ANY* SEO yet, no title tags, nothing. I may just go back here and there when i edit things and add a few basic SEO things here and there, better than nothing.

I'm probably going to focus on some FB ads and stuff soon, since I can narrow down my market. I just don't have $1500 to blow away right now, I have a very tight budget. However, I've got larger goals for the business rather than just me working with individual clients, so we'll see where it goes. If it works out according to plan, I really won't need any SEO or internet exposure at all.

 

[Avus]

If you have unique pictures/content I would hit Insta and Twitter. It is free and I have found that these two platforms are the best for free marketing.

At least in my own experience.

 

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[LightHouse]

If I was starting a business, SEO wouldn't be on the top of my list anymore, PPC would. SEO is still valuable but only once you are making sales and can pay for it. Obviously you can learn it and do it yourself, but we are talking entrepreneurs here, not side money makers.

Also the notion that it is free, is incorrect, not only do you have the "upfront" cost, but you will have on going costs regardless if you want to stay relevant and be ahead of the curve, just like any other marketing channel. The bigger, more profitable the industry you are in, the more money you need to spend on each marketing channel. That's basic business 101.

 

[DKNJ]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Lol yea it does seem risky. However, I do have faith that with my time and effort we can fix the reputation. The team can take this as a lesson learned as to how important customer service and satisfaction is. Some books mention how you have to cut your losses and can't please everyone. However i was always a firm believer in customer service. Like stated in TMF "look big but act small" I learned years ago in a business class that for every 1 customer you lose, you really lose at least 4 (word of mouth). I would multiply that number much higher now since there are so many reviews and ratings all over the internet.

 

[LightHouse]

If I was starting a business, SEO wouldn't be on the top of my list anymore, PPC would.

I should calrify, i meant if i was starting an online only business, which it seems like you are speaking of.

 

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[JasonR]

Am I the only one who has said F*ck seo? I honestly think its a waste of time at this point

YES.

If you read through some of my posts, you'll see I've said the exact same thing F*ck SEO.

Most people view SEO as a way to make free/cheap sales. That couldn't be further from the truth. With SEO you get slow results, slow speed, slow execution - you won't even know if your product/service will even work before it's too late. It's not measurable, blah blah.

Paid traffic, PPC, Display, etc. is where you can get instant validation, and instant scale. This is where the "big guys" play.

F*ck SEO.

"Natural" SEO is fine.

 

[csalvato]

SEO is not the best first traffic source. I built my first two businesses/revenue streams using SEO/Content Marketing as the FIRST traffic source.

In short, it worked to generate money. Just not much of it in a short period of time.

It takes a long time (2-12 months) to hit the rankings you will need and leaves you with a lot of uncertainty.

The better way to go is to get 2-3 other traffic sources dialed in first, and then tackle SEO.

But that's not the only way. You don't NEED to tackle PPC first.

If you REALLY know what you're doing with regards to SEO, you can make a killing if you're patient and know your markets/niches. I know a few people who are pulling in 300-500k+/year from just their SEO portfolio, and they never messed with PPC.

And in my niches, I definitely see how that is possible.

But when these bigger players start a new project they expect to make money about 10 months from the start date. That's a HUGE risk if you don't know what you're doing. And it sounds like you don't.

So if you think search traffic will generate cash for you, then first validate that with PPC on Bing/AdWords and get an idea of your EPC. Even if you generate your business at a loss with SEM PPC, you will validate if your keywords/search terms work, and maybe even find a few others.

THEN you can tackle the same search terms with SEO (and learning SEO should take you like...a week), and you can outsource the individual tasks to a freelancer at $3/hour or about $120/week.

As someone who lost 70% of their revenue stream from a Google slap, I would recommend going this route, and White Hat SEO/Awesome Content Marketing from the get-go as a long play.

Just my 2¢

 

[Dinho7]

I recommend you to invest some time and money in teaching yourself how SEO works. Try it out for a while and gain some experience. When you know the basics, then it will be easier for you to oursource and find people that know what they are doing. This applies to most outsourcable tasks.

 

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[eliquid]

As someone who has spent 18 years in online and ranked numerous ecom sites in Google and Yahoo/Bing for 1,000+ of keywords in top 3 and maintained them AND who also manages PPC budgets for colleges and universities ( Adwords, facebook, Bing, media buys ) upwards of several million a year per school AND now runs a SaaS helping advanced SEO's and ORM's... my word of advice is

Stay away from SEO if you're new to it

 

[J. van Driessen]

I'm currently looking at outsourcing SEO for my ecommerce site. I've learnt quite a bit already on how this works (I used Adwords before but way too expensive for me). Now it's just a lot of manual work which I'll outsource to freelancers.

I generally see 2 approaches with freelancers:
- Most of them: Pay per hour. No results guaranteed
- A few (like http://www.a2aoptima.com/): Fixed price for guaranteed page 1 position on Google.

My fear would be that the guarenteed results would get aquired by using blackhat. What's the preferred way of dealing with SEO?

 

[Tom.V]

I'm currently looking at outsourcing SEO for my ecommerce site. I've learnt quite a bit already on how this works (I used Adwords before but way too expensive for me). Now it's just a lot of manual work which I'll outsource to freelancers.

I generally see 2 approaches with freelancers:
- Most of them: Pay per hour. No results guaranteed
- A few (like http://www.a2aoptima.com/): Fixed price for guaranteed page 1 position on Google.

My fear would be that the guarenteed results would get aquired by using blackhat. What's the preferred way of dealing with SEO?

Anyone guaranteeing rankings is full of shit. With SEO there are far too many moving parts for ANY types of guarantees. I suggest you stay far, far away from them.

As far as outsourcing SEO, just make sure you understand what you are getting. Are they consulting you? Are they making changes to your site (code changes)? Are they writing SEO geared content? Are they building up external resources (links)? Before even considering whether or not you need to outsource the task, first you need to identify what it is that your site is lacking, start from the bottom up, and work your way to the top of the list. For SEO there are different stages of maturity for sites, new sites nowadays don't exactly have it easy particularly if you're a reseller. However, if you own your product and distribution, there is plenty of opportunity given the right plan and strategy. Again, this is with time and for the long term. Short term SEO success can be seen (I've done it personally), but it is often short-lived.

I'll be here all week, let me know if you need direction.

 

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[csalvato]

(I used Adwords before but way too expensive for me).

If PPC is "too expensive" it means you aren't converting and/or your CLV is too low.

When you say you "used AdWords", what do you mean?

 

[Developmental]

I don't really see it as an SEO vs PPC thing, I think they are complimentary

if your business model supports it, buy all of your traffic by PPC in the early days whilst working on your SEO, and if you have good enough analytics, start tailing off your PPC when your organic ratings start growing in traffic - see what effect it has on your overall profitability and assess what proportion of PPC generates you the most traffic/profit

relying on organic traffic from day one doesn't sound wise as you could wait a long time to rank organically, but equally so, resigning yourself to buying traffic for the rest of eternity doesn't seem wise either, a mix of both it best