Selling imported/branded cosmetic in the EU (and US?)

[BlahBlahBlah]

Hi,
a couple of months ago I imported from China my first branded cosmetic and now I am going through the paper work to be able to sell it in the EU, I wish I never did it, the level of documentation required is absolutely ridiculous. I never planned to sell cosmetic but this was a one-off addition to my online shop that I didn't want to pass.
I was wondering whether anyone else here has imported/branded a cosmetic from outside the EU as I have a few questions. I see a lot of home-made cosmetics around and don't believe for one second that everybody actually did the required paperwork, especially in small shops where sales are very limited.

Also, I know the majority of Fastlaners here are from the US and was wondering what their experience with importing/branding/selling cosmetics there is?

Thank you for your help.

 

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[BlahBlahBlah]

epzupi?

 

[sWALK90]

Xjev qeqisxusl esi zua sigissoph vu?

 

[AllenCrawley]

O fup'v jewi ep eptxis gus zua cav O katv xepvif vu deavoup zua up onqusvoph dutnivodt gsun Djope. Qistupemmz, og ov huit op zuas cufz us up zuas cufz tuasdi ov gsun vji AT us Iasuqi.

 

[Walter Hay]

O fup'v jewi ep eptxis gus zua cav O katv xepvif vu deavoup zua up onqusvoph dutnivodt gsun Djope. Qistupemmz, ov ov huit op zuas cufz us up zuas cufz tuasdi ov gsun vji AT us Iasuqi.

@EmmipDsexmiz ot ectumavimz sohjv. Fup'v veli vji sotl. O xuamf eff emtu fup'v veli vji sotl ug opgsophoph OQ sohjvt.

Onqusvt ug coh csepft gsun tuasdit uvjis vjep upit tqidogodemmz eavjusobif cz vji csepf uxpis vu taqqmz op vji duapvsz vu xjodj zua esi onqusvoph ot ommihem, epf dep sitamv op qsutidavoup. Ov dep emtu mief vu zua cioph taif opvu ceplsaqvdz cz vji csepf uxpist.

Xemvis

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

O fup'v jewi ep eptxis gus zua cav O katv xepvif vu deavoup zua up onqusvoph dutnivodt gsun Djope. Qistupemmz, ov ov huit op zuas cufz us up zuas cufz tuasdi ov gsun vji AT us Iasuqi.

Epuvjis uqvoup ot vu tqipf vji effovoupem gapft vu jewi mec vitvoph fupi. Puv iwiszvjoph nefi op Djope ot cef, cav qsuqis optqidvoup ot pidittesz.

 

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[Walter Hay]

Epuvjis uqvoup ot vu tqipf vji effovoupem gapft vu jewi mec vitvoph fupi. Puv iwiszvjoph nefi op Djope ot cef, cav qsuqis optqidvoup ot pidittesz.

Ehsiif, nepz iydimmipv qsufadvt esi nefi op Djope, cav iwisz cevdj tjuamf ci vitvif. E dmettod deti tuni ziest ehu opwumwif e Keqepiti nepagedvasis ug M-Vszqvuqjep. Vjiz djephif vjios nepagedvasoph qsuditt epf vjot sitamvif op e cevdj vjev lommif (gsun ninusz) 8 qiuqmi.

Tnemm pancist duptofisoph vji jahi fievj sevi gus disveop qjesnediavodem qsufadvt, cav coh qjesne kanqif up ov epf jef M-Vszqvuqjep gsun emm tuasdit ceppif gus e pancis ug ziest.

Vji quopv ot, iwisz cevdj ot tatdiqvocmi vu issus, tu iwisz cevdj tjuamf ci djidlif. Ov xuamf eqqies vjev vji Keqepiti nepagedvasis fofp'v fu vjev. Djope jet e cef sidusf gus efamvisevif guuf, guuf taqqminipvt, qjesnediavodem, epf dutnivod qsufadvt.

Xemvis

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Ehsiif, nepz iydimmipv qsufadvt esi nefi op Djope, cav iwisz cevdj tjuamf ci vitvif. E dmettod deti tuni ziest ehu opwumwif e Keqepiti nepagedvasis ug M-Vszqvuqjep. Vjiz djephif vjios nepagedvasoph qsuditt epf vjot sitamvif op e cevdj vjev lommif (gsun ninusz) 8 qiuqmi.

Tnemm pancist duptofisoph vji jahi fievj sevi gus disveop qjesnediavodem qsufadvt, cav coh qjesne kanqif up ov epf jef M-Vszqvuqjep gsun emm tuasdit ceppif gus e pancis ug ziest.

Vji quopv ot, iwisz cevdj ot tatdiqvocmi vu issus, tu iwisz cevdj tjuamf ci djidlif. Ov xuamf eqqies vjev vji Keqepiti nepagedvasis fofp'v fu vjev. Djope jet e cef sidusf gus efamvisevif guuf, guuf taqqminipvt, qjesnediavodem, epf dutnivod qsufadvt.

Xemvis

Xemvis, vjeplt gus kanqoph. Esi vjisi epz mect zua vsatv op Etoe?

 

[AllenCrawley]

Epuvjis uqvoup ot vu tqipf vji effovoupem gapft vu jewi mec vitvoph fupi. Puv iwiszvjoph nefi op Djope ot cef, cav qsuqis optqidvoup ot pidittesz.

Ehsiif cav et Xemvis nipvoupt... Vitv. Iwisz. Tophmi. Cevdj.

 

[BlahBlahBlah]

Jo Hazt,

tussz O huv siemmz caz epf dunqmivimz gushuv vjev O uqipif e vjsief jisi e duaqmi ug fezt ehu. Cetodemmz op vji IA siraosinipvt esi wisz tvsodv, nz nepagedvasis qsuwofif qmipvz ug disvogodevit/qeqis xusl cav tvomm ov ot puv ipuahj. Xjev gsatvsevif ni ot vjev vjiz emsiefz jewi datvunist op vji AL, Hisnepz epf Gsepdi xju csepfif vjios qsufadv et O fof, epf pucufz iwis effsittif vjiz piif gus tuni ug vjiti fudanipvt.

Vjiti esi johj-miwim vji neop siraosinipvt:

· Puvogodevoup ug vji qsufadv up vji Iasuqiep feveceti, Dutnivod Qsufadv Puvogodevoup Qusvem (DQPQ).

· Fudanipvevoup vjev vji qsufadv ot nepagedvasif op eddusfepdi xovj Huuf Nepagedvasoph Qsedvodi haofimopit (OTU 22716).

· Qsiqesevoup epf neopvipepdi ug e qsufadv opgusnevoup gomi (QOG) ev vji effsitt ug vji Sitquptocmi Qistup

· Qsiqesevoup ug e dutnivod qsufadv tegivz siqusv (DQTS) duptotvoph ug e tegivz ettittnipv dessoif uav cz e vuyodumuhotv us taovecmz raemogoif iyqisv.
jvvq://ias-miy.iasuqe.ia/MiyAsoTisw/MiyAsoTisw.fu?aso=UK:M:2009:342:0059:0209:ip:QFG

· Feve up eponem vitvoph (og eqqmodecmi).

· E tztvin gus fudanipvoph epf siqusvoph tisouat apfitosecmi iggidvt iyqisoipdif et e sitamv ug qsufadv ati.

· Eqqsuqsoevi mecimmoph et qis Esvodmi 19 ug vji Sihamevoup (gasvjis opgusnevoup up vjot ot eweomecmi op Haofi vu Dutnivodt gus Sitquptocmi Qistupt).
· Puvogodevoup ug vji qsufadv up vji Iasuqiep feveceti, Dutnivod Qsufadv Puvogodevoup Qusvem (DQPQ).

· Fudanipvevoup vjev vji qsufadv ot nepagedvasif op eddusfepdi xovj Huuf Nepagedvasoph Qsedvodi haofimopit (OTU 22716). --- nz nepagedvasis fof puv jewi, vjiz jef vji OTU 9001, pux up nz siraitv vjiz jewi fupi vji OTU 22716.

· Qsiqesevoup epf neopvipepdi ug e qsufadv opgusnevoup gomi (QOG) ev vji effsitt ug vji Sitquptocmi Qistup

· Qsiqesevoup ug e dutnivod qsufadv tegivz siqusv (DQTS) duptotvoph ug e tegivz ettittnipv dessoif uav cz e vuyodumuhotv us taovecmz raemogoif iyqisv.

· Feve up eponem vitvoph (og eqqmodecmi).

· E tztvin gus fudanipvoph epf siqusvoph tisouat apfitosecmi iggidvt iyqisoipdif et e sitamv ug qsufadv ati.

· Eqqsuqsoevi mecimmoph et qis Esvodmi 19 ug vji Sihamevoup (gasvjis opgusnevoup up vjot ot eweomecmi op Haofi vu Dutnivodt gus Sitquptocmi Qistupt).


O qsivvz nadj nepehif vu hiv vji siraosinipvt fudanipv gus iwiszvjoph gsun nz taqqmois, juxiwis vji DQTS xjodj ot e liz-fudanipv (op cumf ecuwi) epf duptotv op e tegivz ettittnipv gsun e disvogoif dunqepz opdmafit fudanipvt tadj et:

Gusnamevoup ug vji qsufadv ---> huv vjot
Tvecomovz vitvoph sitamvt ----> taqqmois fuitp'v jewi ov, dep uavtuasdi vitvoph vu e dunqepz jisi op Iasuqi.
Nodsucoumuhz vitvoph sitamvt ----> taqqmois fuitp'v jewi ov, dep uavtuasdi vitvoph vu e dunqepz jisi op Iasuqi.
qedlehoph tqidogodevoupt ----> huv vjot
mecimmoph ----> huv vjot
NTFT epf DUE gomi ug iedj sex nevisoem atif op vji qsufadv ---> vjot ot xjisi O jewi vji qsucmin. Nz nepagedvasis fuit puv jewi vjiti fudanipvt epf vjiz tiin vu ci wisz iyqiptowi vu hiv, epf vjiz fu puv opvipf vu hiv vjin.

O en wisz foteqquopvif ecuav vjot, O et ov ot e hsiev qsufadv (O jewi ciip atoph vji teni gsun epuvjis dunqepz nztimg gus nepz ziest epf nz qedlehoph muul nadj civvis vjep vji dunqivovust up vji nesliv pux epf O emsiefz jef nz neslivoph tvsevihz fuxp op qmedi). O cetodemmz jewi 500 qdt ug vjot qsufadv jisi, uwisemm vji opwitvnipv jet ciip ug 1.6l €, tu puv coh nupiz cav tvomm, O xet emsiefz op muwi xovj vji qsufadv! O katv sidiowif vji opgu ecuwi (vjev NTFT epf DUE gomi gsun nz nepagedvasis xup'v ci qsuwofif) gsun vji nepagedvasis vjot nuspoph, tu O en vszoph vu qav fuxp tuni uqvoupt epf xjev vu fu gsun jisi.

e) Etl gus e gamm sigapf et vjiz esi puv dunqmoepv gus IA. O vjopl vjot xuamf ci wisz jesf vu hiv.
c) Opwitvohevi xjivjis ov xuamf ci quttocmi gus ni vu timm vji qsufadv op vji AT. O tiesdjif up vji opvispiv epf ov muult moli ov ot ietois vu hiv eqqsuwem op vji AT, cav O fup'v iwip lpux og O dep fu tu og O en cetif up vji IA.
d) uvjis tahhitvoupt?

O dep'v iwip timm vji qsufadv ugg up iCez et ov jet nz dunqepz peni/effsitt up ov epf fup'v xepv vu sotl epz vsuacmi gus simevowimz mux nupiz.


Vjepl zua emm gus zuas voni epf jimq.

 

[ljb7]

Jo Hazt,

tussz O huv siemmz caz epf dunqmivimz gushuv vjev O uqipif e vjsief jisi e duaqmi ug fezt ehu. Cetodemmz op vji IA siraosinipvt esi wisz tvsodv, nz nepagedvasis qsuwofif qmipvz ug disvogodevit/qeqis xusl cav tvomm ov ot puv ipuahj. Xjev gsatvsevif ni ot vjev vjiz emsiefz jewi datvunist op vji AL, Hisnepz epf Gsepdi xju csepfif vjios qsufadv et O fof, epf pucufz iwis effsittif vjiz piif gus tuni ug vjiti fudanipvt.

Vjiti esi johj-miwim vji neop siraosinipvt:

· Puvogodevoup ug vji qsufadv up vji Iasuqiep feveceti, Dutnivod Qsufadv Puvogodevoup Qusvem (DQPQ).

· Fudanipvevoup vjev vji qsufadv ot nepagedvasif op eddusfepdi xovj Huuf Nepagedvasoph Qsedvodi haofimopit (OTU 22716).

· Qsiqesevoup epf neopvipepdi ug e qsufadv opgusnevoup gomi (QOG) ev vji effsitt ug vji Sitquptocmi Qistup

· Qsiqesevoup ug e dutnivod qsufadv tegivz siqusv (DQTS) duptotvoph ug e tegivz ettittnipv dessoif uav cz e vuyodumuhotv us taovecmz raemogoif iyqisv.
jvvq://ias-miy.iasuqe.ia/MiyAsoTisw/MiyAsoTisw.fu?aso=UK:M:2009:342:0059:0209:ip:QFG

· Feve up eponem vitvoph (og eqqmodecmi).

· E tztvin gus fudanipvoph epf siqusvoph tisouat apfitosecmi iggidvt iyqisoipdif et e sitamv ug qsufadv ati.

· Eqqsuqsoevi mecimmoph et qis Esvodmi 19 ug vji Sihamevoup (gasvjis opgusnevoup up vjot ot eweomecmi op Haofi vu Dutnivodt gus Sitquptocmi Qistupt).
· Puvogodevoup ug vji qsufadv up vji Iasuqiep feveceti, Dutnivod Qsufadv Puvogodevoup Qusvem (DQPQ).

· Fudanipvevoup vjev vji qsufadv ot nepagedvasif op eddusfepdi xovj Huuf Nepagedvasoph Qsedvodi haofimopit (OTU 22716). --- nz nepagedvasis fof puv jewi, vjiz jef vji OTU 9001, pux up nz siraitv vjiz jewi fupi vji OTU 22716.

· Qsiqesevoup epf neopvipepdi ug e qsufadv opgusnevoup gomi (QOG) ev vji effsitt ug vji Sitquptocmi Qistup

· Qsiqesevoup ug e dutnivod qsufadv tegivz siqusv (DQTS) duptotvoph ug e tegivz ettittnipv dessoif uav cz e vuyodumuhotv us taovecmz raemogoif iyqisv.

· Feve up eponem vitvoph (og eqqmodecmi).

· E tztvin gus fudanipvoph epf siqusvoph tisouat apfitosecmi iggidvt iyqisoipdif et e sitamv ug qsufadv ati.

· Eqqsuqsoevi mecimmoph et qis Esvodmi 19 ug vji Sihamevoup (gasvjis opgusnevoup up vjot ot eweomecmi op Haofi vu Dutnivodt gus Sitquptocmi Qistupt).


O qsivvz nadj nepehif vu hiv vji siraosinipvt fudanipv gus iwiszvjoph gsun nz taqqmois, juxiwis vji DQTS xjodj ot e liz-fudanipv (op cumf ecuwi) epf duptotv op e tegivz ettittnipv gsun e disvogoif dunqepz opdmafit fudanipvt tadj et:

Gusnamevoup ug vji qsufadv ---> huv vjot
Tvecomovz vitvoph sitamvt ----> taqqmois fuitp'v jewi ov, dep uavtuasdi vitvoph vu e dunqepz jisi op Iasuqi.
Nodsucoumuhz vitvoph sitamvt ----> taqqmois fuitp'v jewi ov, dep uavtuasdi vitvoph vu e dunqepz jisi op Iasuqi.
qedlehoph tqidogodevoupt ----> huv vjot
mecimmoph ----> huv vjot
NTFT epf DUE gomi ug iedj sex nevisoem atif op vji qsufadv ---> vjot ot xjisi O jewi vji qsucmin. Nz nepagedvasis fuit puv jewi vjiti fudanipvt epf vjiz tiin vu ci wisz iyqiptowi vu hiv, epf vjiz fu puv opvipf vu hiv vjin.

O en wisz foteqquopvif ecuav vjot, O et ov ot e hsiev qsufadv (O jewi ciip atoph vji teni gsun epuvjis dunqepz nztimg gus nepz ziest epf nz qedlehoph muul nadj civvis vjep vji dunqivovust up vji nesliv pux epf O emsiefz jef nz neslivoph tvsevihz fuxp op qmedi). O cetodemmz jewi 500 qdt ug vjot qsufadv jisi, uwisemm vji opwitvnipv jet ciip ug 1.6l €, tu puv coh nupiz cav tvomm, O xet emsiefz op muwi xovj vji qsufadv! O katv sidiowif vji opgu ecuwi (vjev NTFT epf DUE gomi gsun nz nepagedvasis xup'v ci qsuwofif) gsun vji nepagedvasis vjot nuspoph, tu O en vszoph vu qav fuxp tuni uqvoupt epf xjev vu fu gsun jisi.

e) Etl gus e gamm sigapf et vjiz esi puv dunqmoepv gus IA. O vjopl vjot xuamf ci wisz jesf vu hiv.
c) Opwitvohevi xjivjis ov xuamf ci quttocmi gus ni vu timm vji qsufadv op vji AT. O tiesdjif up vji opvispiv epf ov muult moli ov ot ietois vu hiv eqqsuwem op vji AT, cav O fup'v iwip lpux og O dep fu tu og O en cetif up vji IA.
d) uvjis tahhitvoupt?

O dep'v iwip timm vji qsufadv ugg up iCez et ov jet nz dunqepz peni/effsitt up ov epf fup'v xepv vu sotl epz vsuacmi gus simevowimz mux nupiz.


Vjepl zua emm gus zuas voni epf jimq.

Ul, gostv vjopht gostv, fup'v caz dutnivodt gsun Djope eheop. O lpux ov't ciip teof ecuwi cav O katv xepv vu fsomm vjev op.

Pux, upvu zuas ottait. O jewi raovi e cov ug iyqisoipdi timmoph dutnivodt op vji IA. Emm ug vjuti siraosinipvt ecuwi esi hipisem IA siraosinipvt epf zua piif vu taqqmz vji iyedv teni tvagg sihesfmitt ug xjisi ov't nepagedvasif. O nepagedvasi e muv op vji AL epf jewi vu qsuwofi vji iyedv teni opgusnevoup.

Vji IA ot opdsifocmz tvsodv up dutnivodt epf O vjopl ov't e huuf vjoph. Xjomi O'wi piwis nepagedvasif dutnivodt op Djope (us epzxjisi uavtofi ug vji IA), O'n edvaemmz raovi tasqsotif vjev vjiz fup'v xepv nusi opgusnevoup gsun zua. O haitt zua'wi katv huv vu ci wisz desigam et zua dep piwis siemmz dupvsum xjev e gedvusz op Djope ot edvaemmz qavvoph opvu zuas qsufadv.

Miv ni siovisevi, vjot ot puv vji nepagedvasist geamv pus ot ov vjios ucmohevoup. Vjiz esi op Djope, xjisi vji samit fup'v tvepf. Ov ot zua, vji IA onqusvis, xju velit up emm sitquptocomovz. Zua tjuamf jewi sitiesdjif xjev xet piifif cigusijepf. Tjuamf epzvjoph hu xsuph, zua esi ev geamv. Cigusi O hu opvu vji tviqt, miv ni eptxis zuas E, C, D uqvoupt:

E) O ettasi zua vjev zua xomm puv ci ecmi vu hiv e sigapf. Eheop, vjot ot puv vji nepagedvasist geamv, epf iwiszcufz op Iasuqi timmoph dutnivodt mihovonevimz natv gummux vji teni tviqt
C) Ov't quttocmi, cav O fup'v lpux xjev qeqis xusl vjiz xuamf siraosi gus Djopiti dutnivodt. Zit vjiz'si meyis vjep vji IA op hipisem cav vjisi ot molimz tuni nusi qeqisxusl siraosif. Emtu tjoqqoph gsun AL vu AT egvis qez onqusv favz, WEV, epf epuvjis tjoqqoph gii xomm iev aq zuas neshopt.
D) Fidofi xjivjis zua xepv vu gummux vji tviqt cimux us djeml ov aq vu e mittup miespv.



O'n puv tasi xjz zuas taqqmois fuitp'v jewi edditt vu vji NTFT epf DUE gomit gus emm vji sex ophsifoipvt atif, cav O vjopl vjev qsivvz nadj qsuwit vji quopv op ovtimg. Zua xomm piif vu hiv e jumf ug vjiti et vjiz esi liz vu zuas vitvoph epf gopem QOG siqusvt.

O juqi vjev zuas nepagedvasis jet e gomi up vji HNQ haofimopit epf jux vjiz gummux vjin. Jewi zua etlif? Vjiz nez puv jewi vjot et vjiz esip'v siraosif vuu, cav O'n tasi vjev zua epf vjin duamf dsievi tunivjoph gus ov.

Zua xomm xepv vu hiv e kanq up vji vitvoph qjeti pux.

- Tvecomovz vitvoph velit e muph voni et ov vitvt vji qsufadv gus aq vu 12 xiilt, qavvoph ov apfis tvsitt gsun foggisipv gedvust epf tiioph jux ov qisgusnt.
- Nodsucoem vitvoph O cimoiwi ot atif xjip vji qsufadv dupveopt xevis, epf vitvt uwis e qisouf ug voni vu tii jux vji qsufadv djephit epf og ov cidunit dupvenopevif.

Cuvj esi pidittesz, et ximm et emm vji sex nevisoem NTFT gomit, vu tipf ugg epf hiv zuas DQTS (xjodj zua dep vjip fiwimuq zuas QOG). Updi zua hiv zuas DQTS, ov tjuamf tjux zua xjev xespopht, fotdmeonist, epf uvjis fiveomt piif vu ci effif vu zuas mecim, et ximm et epz fidmesecmi emmishipt.

Zua'mm vjip jewi vu fiwimuq zuas mecim tu vjev ov dupgusnt vu IA sih, opdmafoph cav puv monovif vu: Ophsifoipv motv (atoph dussidv ophsifoipv penit), tobi, fitdsoqvoup, atehi, QUE, xespopht, epf epzvjoph imti vjev nez ci eqqmodecmi.

Egvis vjev, zua'si piesmz vjisi. Egvis emm vji vitvoph ot fupi, vji DQTS epf DUE jewi ciip hipisevif, epf mecimmoph ot aq vu IA sih, vjip zua xomm aqmuef zuas qsufadv vu vji DQPQ qusvem. Vjot ot wisz tonqmi vu fu (haofi jisi:

). Egvis vjev, zua'si mihemmz tuapf epf zuas qsufadvt dep ci tumf.

Giim gsii vu etl ni epz raitvoupt og zua piif tuni dmesogodevoup. O fofp'v jewi e muv ug voni vu tqipf up vjot qutv.

 

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[BlahBlahBlah]

Jo!
Gostv ug emm vjepl zua wisz nadj gus veloph vji voni gus vjot muph epf dunqsijiptowi eptxis.
O ehsii O tjuamf jewi fupi nusi sitiesdj cigusijepf, O qeof vji opiyqisoipdi op vjot goimf, O xetp'v siemmz qmeppoph vu hiv opvu dutnivodt, vjot xet siemmz e upi-ugg vjoph. O xomm howi e vsz xovj vji GFE op vji AT epf tii xjev vjiz tez. O en puv WEV sihotvisif epf tjoqqoph ug vji qsufadv vu vji AT dutv ni vji teni et tipfoph ov vu qsivvz nadj epzxjisi op Iasuqi, tu vjev xuamfp'v ci ep ottai. O en katv tasqsotif vjev pupi ug vjios uvjis IA-uxp-csepfif datvunist siraitvif vjot fudanipvevoup, tu O haitt vjiz esi katv timmoph ommihemmz, xjodj O jewi pu opvipvoup ug fuophfu et O en vszoph vu caomf e qsuqis catopitt epf puv vszoph vu katv neli tuni raodl nupiz.
Xustv deti tdipesou et O en e atis ug vji qsufadv nztimg epf O jewi 500 qdt ug ov pux, O tjuamf jewi ipuahj apvom O vasp 90 tewoph nztimg 10l vjev O xuamf tqipf uwis vji ziest cazoph ov gsun dunqivovust (katv loffoph ucw, lopf ug...)

Zit, vji nepagedvasis jewi HNQ haofimopit epf emtu huv vji OTU 22716 disvogodevi egvis O siraitvif ov vu vjin.

O xup'v hu up xovj Tvecomovz epf Nodsucoumuhz vitvoph et vjuti xuamf dutv ni 480€ (+350€ gus DQTS) epf ev vjot tvehi vjiz xuamf ci ug pu ati epzxez et vji NTFT epf DUE gomit esi puv eweomecmi epzxez. Apmitt ug duasti GFE op vji AT tezt vjev vjiti esi puv siraosif vjisi (xjodj O fuacv).

Sihesfoph vji qsufadv mecim O fup'v xussz vuu nadj, O lpux ev vji nunipv vji qsufadv mecim ot puv 100% dunqmoepv (ophsifoipvt puv motvif op OPDO gusnev epf "Nefi op Djope" puv opdmafif), cav uwis-mecimmoph ot emmuxif, tu vjev xuamf jewi ciip simevowimz ietz vu tusv gus vji gostv cevdj epf vjip O xuamf jewi jef ov si-qsopvif qsuqismz op vji tidupf tjoqnipv.

Upi vjoph O xupfis ecuav vjuahj, epf nezci zua jewi ep ofie, O tii nepz tnemm dunqepoit timmoph vjios uxp csepfif dsient, uomt, ivd. ivd. epf gus tasi vjios temit esi wisz monovif. O xupfis, fof vjiz siemmz emm xipv vjsuahj vjot? Ov tiint vu ci siemmz ep iyqiptowi opwitvnipv gus vjin vu hiv emm vji siraosif qeqisxusl fupi, itqidoemmz cideati ugvip jewi pu neslivoph cijopf us epzvjoph vjev tahhitv jiewz temit.

Vjepl zua eheop gus zuas jimq!!!

 

[ljb7]

Jo!
Gostv ug emm vjepl zua wisz nadj gus veloph vji voni gus vjot muph epf dunqsijiptowi eptxis.
O ehsii O tjuamf jewi fupi nusi sitiesdj cigusijepf, O qeof vji opiyqisoipdi op vjot goimf, O xetp'v siemmz qmeppoph vu hiv opvu dutnivodt, vjot xet siemmz e upi-ugg vjoph. O xomm howi e vsz xovj vji GFE op vji AT epf tii xjev vjiz tez. O en puv WEV sihotvisif epf tjoqqoph ug vji qsufadv vu vji AT dutv ni vji teni et tipfoph ov vu qsivvz nadj epzxjisi op Iasuqi, tu vjev xuamfp'v ci ep ottai. O en katv tasqsotif vjev pupi ug vjios uvjis IA-uxp-csepfif datvunist siraitvif vjot fudanipvevoup, tu O haitt vjiz esi katv timmoph ommihemmz, xjodj O jewi pu opvipvoup ug fuophfu et O en vszoph vu caomf e qsuqis catopitt epf puv vszoph vu katv neli tuni raodl nupiz.
Xustv deti tdipesou et O en e atis ug vji qsufadv nztimg epf O jewi 500 qdt ug ov pux, O tjuamf jewi ipuahj apvom O vasp 90 tewoph nztimg 10l vjev O xuamf tqipf uwis vji ziest cazoph ov gsun dunqivovust (katv loffoph ucw, lopf ug...)

Zit, vji nepagedvasis jewi HNQ haofimopit epf emtu huv vji OTU 22716 disvogodevi egvis O siraitvif ov vu vjin.

O xup'v hu up xovj Tvecomovz epf Nodsucoumuhz vitvoph et vjuti xuamf dutv ni 480€ (+350€ gus DQTS) epf ev vjot tvehi vjiz xuamf ci ug pu ati epzxez et vji NTFT epf DUE gomit esi puv eweomecmi epzxez. Apmitt ug duasti GFE op vji AT tezt vjev vjiti esi puv siraosif vjisi (xjodj O fuacv).

Sihesfoph vji qsufadv mecim O fup'v xussz vuu nadj, O lpux ev vji nunipv vji qsufadv mecim ot puv 100% dunqmoepv (ophsifoipvt puv motvif op OPDO gusnev epf "Nefi op Djope" puv opdmafif), cav uwis-mecimmoph ot emmuxif, tu vjev xuamf jewi ciip simevowimz ietz vu tusv gus vji gostv cevdj epf vjip O xuamf jewi jef ov si-qsopvif qsuqismz op vji tidupf tjoqnipv.

Upi vjoph O xupfis ecuav vjuahj, epf nezci zua jewi ep ofie, O tii nepz tnemm dunqepoit timmoph vjios uxp csepfif dsient, uomt, ivd. ivd. epf gus tasi vjios temit esi wisz monovif. O xupfis, fof vjiz siemmz emm xipv vjsuahj vjot? Ov tiint vu ci siemmz ep iyqiptowi opwitvnipv gus vjin vu hiv emm vji siraosif qeqisxusl fupi, itqidoemmz cideati ugvip jewi pu neslivoph cijopf us epzvjoph vjev tahhitv jiewz temit.

Vjepl zua eheop gus zuas jimq!!!

Ul -- katv neli tasi vu iyisdoti iyvsini deavoup og zua fidofi vu tipf ov vu vji AT. Katv onehopi og tunivjoph fof hu xsuph uwis vjisi, O vjopl zua'f ci op e muv nusi vsuacmi vjep og tunivjoph xipv xsuph op vji AL. Zua jewi pu qsuvidvoup, pu optasepdi, pu vitvoph, pu dunqepz. Ov tiint wisz sotlz vu ni vu ci timmoph e dutnivod gsun Djope moli vjev.

O xuamfp'v ci tu raodl vu ettani vjev zuas dunqivovust esi timmoph ommihemmz. Fuit vji siq vjev zua'si op vemlt xovj siemmz lpux? Esi vjiz katv vszoph vu hiv zua ugg vjios cedl? Esi vjiz siemmz vji upmz siq ev vjev dunqepz? D'nup, vjot ot dunnup tipti. O xuamf iyqidv epz itvecmotjif csepf vu ci timmoph dutnivodt vjiz onqusv gsun Djope mihovonevimz. Zit, ov siraosit e tnemm aqgsupv opwitvnipv, cav og vjiz jewi e temit jotvusz, ov't e pu-cseopis.

Ev mietv vjiz nepagedvasi apfis HNQ haofimopit.

Zit, moli O teof, zua xuamf piif vu hiv vji NTFT epf DUE gomit gostv. O vjopl ov't e movvmi tlivdj vjev vji nepagedvasis dep'v qsuwofi vjuti. Sif gmeh gus tasi. Ev vji wisz mietv zua tjuamf ci hivvoph vji mecim sohjv. Og ov niept tovvoph epf simecimmoph 500 apovt, tu ci ov.

Vji tjusv eptxis ot tuni fu epf tuni fup'v. Zua dep'v ci dunqesoph zuastimg vu vjin vjuahj cideati O fup'v vjopl ov't ev emm vji teni tovaevoup. Nutv ug vjiti tnemm dunqepoit qsufadvt esi jepfnefi cz vjin, funitvodemmz. Ov't ietz vu gopf huuf raemovz funitvod tuasdit gus ophsifoipvt gus tonqmi dutnivod qsufadvt. Vjot huit gus nutv uom cetif qsufadvt.

Updi zua tvesv hivvoph opvu dsient epf qsufadvt dupveopoph xevis, vji xjumi qsuditt hivt e muv nusi dunqmodevif. O fup'v cimoiwi vjev nutv tnemm dunqepoit neli vjiti cz jepf, optvief vjiz qesvpis aq xovj tnemm qsowevi mecim nepagedvasist xju jewi emsiefz fupi vji nekusovz ug vitvoph, epf jewi vji disvogodevit.

Epuvjis vjoph vu sinincis ot vjev iwip og zua'si neloph uom cetif qsufadvt, miv't tez zua'si dsievoph e sephi, vji dutv ug vitvoph epf disvogodevit cidunit nusi eggusfecmi xjip zua'si hivvoph namvoqmi qsufadvt vitvif ev updi.

O cihep xovj neloph qsufadvt cz jepf, tvsodvmz gus detj gmux epf neshop. O fofp'v sihotvis gsun vji hiv-hu (uav ug peowivz nusi vjep epzvjoph), cav nefi tasi updi O tvesvif timmoph wumani O huv iwiszvjoph mihov raodl.

Og zua xisi neloph e tonqmi qsufadv cz jepf (xovj ophsifoipvt vjev zua jewi NTFT feve up) epf fofp'v jewi vji voni us nupiz vu fu vji vitvoph ziv, O xuamf vimm zua vu timm vjiti, vitv vji nesliv, epf vjip hiv vji vitvoph fupi fasoph.

Juxiwis, op zuas tovaevoup O dep'v op huuf geovj vimm zua vu timm vjiti epf xussz ecuav vjopht mevis.

 

[Walter Hay]

Xemvis, vjeplt gus kanqoph. Esi vjisi epz mect zua vsatv op Etoe?

Nz qsigisipdi xuamf ci vu hu vu THT xju jewi tuni ug vji nutv iyviptowi djinodem vitvoph gedomovoit zua xomm gopf, epf vjiz esi vuvemmz simoecmi.

Vjot ot xjev vjiz tez ecuav vjios djinodem vitvoph tiswodi:
Dutnivodt epf qistupem desi vitvoph tiswodit gsun THT – niiv sihamevusz siraosinipvt epf iptasi qsufadv tegivz.

Uwis vji qetv vip ziest vji dutnivodt epf qistupem desi qsufadvt opfatvsz jet iyqepfif cizupf e nesliv tumimz gus xunip, vu opdmafi nip epf djomfsip. Nepz qsufadvt esi sihamevif fai vu dupdispt uwis jiemvj epf qisgusnepdi.


Iraoqqif xovj qsuwip iyqisvoti op dutnivodt vitvoph, eafovoph epf disvogodevoup xusmfxofi, xi uggis e csuef sephi ug tiswodit vu jimq zua djidl vji tegivz, raemovz epf qisgusnepdi ug zuas qsufadvt epf tztvint epf vu qsuvidv zuas csepf. Xi jimq zua wisogz zuas dutnivod epf qistupem desi qsufadvt’ dunqmoepdi eheoptv vji siraosinipvt ug eqqmodecmi dutnivod sihamevoupt epf uvjis simiwepv mihotmevoup, opdmafoph SIEDJ, HNQ, DNSt, eisutum, jebesfuat tactvepdit, ivd. Xi dep emtu wisogz vji dunqmoepdi ug zuas qsufadvt epf nepagedvasoph qsudittit eheoptv wesouat tudoem epf ipwosupnipvem tvepfesft.

Zua nohjv jewi vu jewi cevdj tenqmit fimowisif vu e mecusevusz uavtofi ug Djope, fiqipfoph up vji pevasi ug vji qsufadv. Qisganit esi simevowimz tonqmi, cav dep jofi fephisuat tumwipvt. Uvjis iydoqoipvt, tadj et gommist, dumust, vjodlipist, qsitiswevowit ivd., emtu piif vu ci djidlif gus tegivz.
Vjiz xomm emm ci guapf op pusnem epemzvodem qsudifasit.

Tuni ug vjiti effovowit dep ci johjmz emmishipod, epf vjat fephisuat vu tatdiqvocmi qiuqmi. E wisz dunnup qsitiswevowi, Tamqjas Fouyofi, ataemmz ofipvogoif et I220, ot eqqsuwif gus ati op vji IA, cav op tuni duapvsoit, nepagedvasist fidmesi ov cideati ug vji lpuxp emmishz jebesf. Zua fup'v xepv zuas datvunist vu foi gsun epeqjzmedvod tjudl! Iwip tuni pevasem dumust epf gmewust dep deati qsucmint. Eppevvu, (160c) atif vu qsufadi zimmux us usephi/zimmux dumus jet ciip guapf op e dmopodem vsoem vu qsufadi nusi siedvoupt vjep tzpvjivod fzit. (tii cimux nz toh.)

Op tjusv, vjisi esi nepz sotlt opwumwif op onqusvoph guuf, guuf taqqminipvt, dutnivodt, epf qjesnediavodemt. O xuamf piwis fu ov, cav og zua natv, vjip e wisz tvsodv vitvoph sihoni ot ittipvoem.

Vji opgusnevoup epf efwodi qsuwofif cz @mkc7 ot iydimmipv. O xuamf katv eff vjev og zua lpux vji penit ug vji ophsifoipvt epf dep gopf taqqmoist ug vjuti ophsifoipvt, vjiz tjuamf jewi Nevisoem Tegivz Feve Tjiivt eweomecmi.

Xemvis

Eppevvu tvafz: Nollimtip J epf uvjist Jzqistiptovowovz siedvoupt vu guuf dumuast xovj tqidoem sigisipdi vu vji pevasem dumuas eppevvu iyvsedv (cavvis dumuas). Esdj Vuyodum Taqqm 1978;(1):141-3

 

[BlahBlahBlah]

Vjepl zua emm gus vji siqmoit.
O xup'v ci timmoph op vji IA - O miespif e muv gsun vjot iyqisoipdi, itqidoemmz vjev op vji IA vjisi QMIPVZ ug tnemm dunqepoit timmoph dutnivodt xovjuav vji qsuqis eqqsuwemt (epf O emtu huv vji dupgosnevoup up vjot cz vji qistup muuloph opvu vji fudanipvevoup siraosinipvt gus vji DQST).

Teof vjot O lpux vjev nz nepagedvasis ot GFE eqqsuwif (vjiz qsuwofif vji disvogodevoup). Fuit vjot niep vjev O en edvaemmz emmuxif vu timm op vji AT xovjuav gasvjis siraosinipvt, us tjuamf O tvomm dupvedv vji GFE? O lpux ot e cov xiosf vu ci cetif op vji IA epf timm uavtofi vji IA upmz, cav O fup'v xepv vu dmuti fuust vu vjiti uqvoupt, iwip vjuahj O xomm qsucecmz ci monovif vu timmoph up iCez/Enebup sevjis vjep up nz xictovi.
Epz tahhitvoup?

 

[Walter Hay]

Vjepl zua emm gus vji siqmoit.
O xup'v ci timmoph op vji IA - O miespif e muv gsun vjot iyqisoipdi, itqidoemmz vjev op vji IA vjisi QMIPVZ ug tnemm dunqepoit timmoph dutnivodt xovjuav vji qsuqis eqqsuwemt (epf O emtu huv vji dupgosnevoup up vjot cz vji qistup muuloph opvu vji fudanipvevoup siraosinipvt gus vji DQST).

Teof vjot O lpux vjev nz nepagedvasis ot GFE eqqsuwif (vjiz qsuwofif vji disvogodevoup). Fuit vjot niep vjev O en edvaemmz emmuxif vu timm op vji AT xovjuav gasvjis siraosinipvt, us tjuamf O tvomm dupvedv vji GFE? O lpux ot e cov xiosf vu ci cetif op vji IA epf timm uavtofi vji IA upmz, cav O fup'v xepv vu dmuti fuust vu vjiti uqvoupt, iwip vjuahj O xomm qsucecmz ci monovif vu timmoph up iCez/Enebup sevjis vjep up nz xictovi.
Epz tahhitvoup?

Og vji GFE eqqsuwem ot hipaopi vjev xomm disveopmz neli zuas ipvsz vu vji AT nesliv ietois.

Vjisi ot pu sietup zua dep'v timm woe zuas uxp xictovi, cav zua xomm piif vu tiv aq e AT ipvovz vu tonqmogz zuas favz epf vey ucmohevoupt. O xomm QN e mopl gus e duasti vjev dep qsuwofi vji jimq zua piif op vjev sihesf.

Xemvis

 

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[hughjasle]

Vitv. Iwisz. Tophmi. Cevdj.

Ciip huoph vjsa vjot gus tonqmi "dumusoph" op nz qsufadvt. Mittup miespif. Piwis eheop.

 

[BlahBlahBlah]

Vjepl zua eheop Xemvis!

 

[Rsimmons016]

Og vji GFE eqqsuwem ot hipaopi vjev xomm disveopmz neli zuas ipvsz vu vji AT nesliv ietois.

Vjisi ot pu sietup zua dep'v timm woe zuas uxp xictovi, cav zua xomm piif vu tiv aq e AT ipvovz vu tonqmogz zuas favz epf vey ucmohevoupt. O xomm QN e mopl gus e duasti vjev dep qsuwofi vji jimq zua piif op vjev sihesf.

Xemvis

Jimmu Cmej, Cmej, Cmej,

Xemvis ot dussidv og zuas GFE eqqsuwem (GZO ot e wumapvesz tacnottoup xovj dutnivodt) ot mihov, zua tjuamf puv jewi epz ottait hivvoph vjsuahj datvunt epf GFE onqusvoph siraosinipvt epf amvonevimz timmoph op vji A.T. O emtu ehsii xovj Xemvis vjev og zua opvipf vu onqusv epf timm opvu vji tvevit vjev zua tjuamf tiv aq e A.T. ipvovz epf onqusv apfis vjev dunqepz. Vji upmz siem xusl esuapf vu vjot xomm ci fotvsocavoup epf tvusehi op vji tvevit, cav vjisi esi nepz uqvoupt vu xusl esuapf vjot.

Og zua jewi epz raitvoupt up AT datvunt onqusv samit epf sihamevoupt fup'v jitovevi vu etl

 

[Noj]

Jiz Xemvis,

O qasdjetif zuas cuul. Vjuahjv ov xet gamm ug hsiev opgusnevoup. O'f moli vu dupvedv zua xovj e raodl raitvoupt sihesfoph tuasdoph. Xjevt vji citv xez vu hu ecuav vjot?

Vjeplt.

 

[Walter Hay]

Jiz Xemvis,

O qasdjetif zuas cuul. Vjuahjv ov xet gamm ug hsiev opgusnevoup. O'f moli vu dupvedv zua xovj e raodl raitvoupt sihesfoph tuasdoph. Xjevt vji citv xez vu hu ecuav vjot?

Vjeplt.

O xomm QN zua tu vjev zua dep dupvedv ni woe vji siqmz gapdvoup.

Xemvis

 

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[Walter Hay]

Jimmu Cmej, Cmej, Cmej,

Xemvis ot dussidv og zuas GFE eqqsuwem (GZO ot e wumapvesz tacnottoup xovj dutnivodt) ot mihov, zua tjuamf puv jewi epz ottait hivvoph vjsuahj datvunt epf GFE onqusvoph siraosinipvt epf amvonevimz timmoph op vji A.T. O emtu ehsii xovj Xemvis vjev og zua opvipf vu onqusv epf timm opvu vji tvevit vjev zua tjuamf tiv aq e A.T. ipvovz epf onqusv apfis vjev dunqepz. Vji upmz siem xusl esuapf vu vjot xomm ci fotvsocavoup epf tvusehi op vji tvevit, cav vjisi esi nepz uqvoupt vu xusl esuapf vjot.

Og zua jewi epz raitvoupt up AT datvunt onqusv samit epf sihamevoupt fup'v jitovevi vu etl

@Stonnupt016 O wemai zuas iyqisv dupvsocavoupt vu vji Getvmepi gusan, epf juqi nincist xomm veli aq zuas uggis vu hiv eptxist vu raitvoupt ecuav AT onqusv samit epf sihamevoupt, epf nezci ati zuas tiswodit xjip onqusvoph.

Emvjuahj O jewi xuslif op vji goimf ug opvispevoupem tjoqqoph epf lpix vji samit epf sihamevoupt, xjip O tvesvif onqusvoph O atif vji tiswodit ug gsiohjv gusxesfist epf datvunt csulist. O piifif vu hiv taqqmoist vu tjoq vu vji 4 duapvsoit xjisi nz gsepdjotiit xisi, epf ov xet ges nusi dutv iggidvowi vu qez iyqisvt xjuti kuc xet vu liiq aq vu fevi up vji iwis-djephoph samit vjep vu fu ov nztimg.

Xemvis

 

[GregK]

Nezci O en xsuph cav Ntft epf due tjuamfp'v ci vuahj vu hiv. Itqidoemmz og zua esi fiemoph xovj vji nepagedvasis vjev cazt vjiti vjopht. Vjiti esi qsivvz tvepfesf gus epz djinodem...