Screw Interest, Get Commitment

[Kevin88660]

One of the worst mistakes I repeat over and over again as an entrepreneur is confusing interest with commitment.

The difference is simple (yet I still manage to F*ck it up—call me Einstein):

Generating interest: giving someone something for free (newsletter sign-up, free e-book, free sample, free consultation).

Generating commitment: getting someone to GIVE YOU MONEY for your product or service.

If you’re starting your business and you don’t know what to sell, you might be tempted to follow the trendy advice of “building your audience” first. It’s a nice and comfortable path that postpones getting to the moment of truth (that you have no idea what to sell).

If you don’t have clarity about what you can sell before you start your business, you won’t magically discover it while building your audience.

To make matters worse, it’s very likely that your audience’s interest won’t translate into true, backed-by-money commitment.

I’m a big fan of some newsletters and YouTube channels, yet I’ve never spent any money on products they offer and never will. From the perspective of the entrepreneurs who run them, I’m a waste of time and money.

Meanwhile, there’s an MMA store from which I regularly buy fitness gear. I don’t care about the store (no interest), yet I spent way more money with them (commitment) than with the newsletters/channels I’m a huge fan of. Why? Because they focus on selling products, not building an audience.

Would you rather have my interest or commitment?

Can you have both? Of course, with time you can. But you’re most effective when you focus only on one task: and that can be either building your audience or making sales.

Are there some business models that benefit from developing interest first? Of course. For example, you can’t build a podcast without building interest first. But I’d generally advise against such business model unless you have some rare specific skills that make you qualified to do this.

Now, I make a lot of mistakes as evidenced by this post so I welcome all thoughts and counterarguments.

I don’t think it is really as different as you made it to be.

You come up with a product or service. You pay marketers to sell it, be it google ads or facebook ads. It fails. You improvises or tries a different idea…..after n times until it works.

The second approach is that you take time and effort to build your audience. Once its done, you can test many products or services at low or zero cost. Or you get monetised selling other people’s products.

There is also hybrid model. Sell a product at break even margin, low margin or at loss, acquire customers to build your relationship and funnel and look to pitch higher margin products.

If you could sell a product or service and monetize it then do it. Don’t waste your time.

But the issue is many people are bleeding to pay third party marketers testing products and business ideas multiple times, and that is why they wanted to play the longer game and try a different approach.

In the MMA store you mentioned, they paid for a physical location to get the foot traffic.

The problem is not “not knowing what to sell”. The problem is actually “not knowing what will get sold” and testing that is never free.

 

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[MTF]

If you could sell a product or service and monetize it then do it. Don’t waste your time.

Yes I think in many cases it comes down to time vs money.

In the MMA store you mentioned, they paid for a physical location to get the foot traffic.

It's actually an online store. I was looking for MMA shorts and found their website and bought a few other things as well. Recently I needed new handwraps and bought them there again.

The problem is not “not knowing what to sell”. The problem is actually “not knowing what will get sold” and testing that is never free.

That's a nice way to put it.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If I'm being honest, I never understood your business ideas and their business models.

I would find it terribly difficult to spend a lot of time marketing something where the immediate, best case scenario is someone subscribing. For me, a strong enough feedback loop just isn't there-- and won't be there for what, months? Years?

I'm not suggesting that you can't make a fortune with a newsletter, however you have to "know yourself" (you and I are very similar insofar as our cynicism) and realize that the "commitment" of money is very important for motivation and emotional dynamics, especially when it comes to time and money spent.

I built this forum FIRST before my book. But I also had a product that was in the pipeline. I would have NEVER started this forum without knowing first I was going to be an author, and that I could leverage that forum.

That said, I'm all for building an audience, even if you're not quite sure (yet) where it's going to go.

Someone who spent 2 years researching and finally discovers the perfect product might not be better off than the guy who spent 2 years building a YouTube channel with 1M subscribers. The latter likely has a distinct advantage.

 

[MTF]

If I'm being honest, I never understood your business ideas and their business models.

LOL that is probably one of the best non-insult insults I've ever heard addressed toward me. (I'm not mad, it's just funny because it's true)

I built this forum FIRST before my book. But I also had a product that was in the pipeline. If I would have NEVER started this forum without knowing first I was going to be an author, and that I could leverage that forum.

That's interesting, I didn't know that you created this forum thinking about a product. I thought you started it simply because you didn't like other options at the time.

That said, I'm all for building an audience, even if you're not quite sure (yet) where it's going to go.

Someone who spent 2 years researching and finally discovers the perfect product might not be better off than the guy who spent 2 years building a YouTube channel with 1M subscribers. The latter likely has a distinct advantage.

This is a bit in conflict with what you said in the opening line.

I think that spending 2 years building a YouTube channel is completely normal and expected but 2 years looking for a product that sells (assuming you're actually testing it and not just "researching") is a bit long.

 

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[Kevin88660]

LOL that is probably one of the best non-insult insults I've ever heard addressed toward me. (I'm not mad, it's just funny because it's true)



That's interesting, I didn't know that you created this forum thinking about a product. I thought you started it simply because you didn't like other options at the time.



This is a bit in conflict with what you said in the opening line.

I think that spending 2 years building a YouTube channel is completely normal and expected but 2 years looking for a product that sells (assuming you're actually testing it and not just "researching") is a bit long.

Youtube is somewhat an exception that if you can have a million subscribers for finance, business or investment topics, ad sense would probably bring at least half a million revenue.

You probably become more or less a marketing centric influncer than a product/service provider.

The business model is more like traditional TV channel. You keep your audience eye ball glued to your channel where advertisers pay you for the time your audience spent on them. Except that on YT, YT did everything automatically.

You are not asking your audience to commit their money but commit their attention. Then someone else pays you for that attention.

 

[Andy Black]

Internet marketers: “The money's in the list.”

Everyone else: “The money's in the money.”

 

[MTF]

Youtube is somewhat an exception that if you can have a million subscribers for finance, business or investment topics, ad sense would probably bring at least half a million revenue.

You probably become more or less a marketing centric influncer than a product/service provider.

The business model is more like traditional TV channel. You keep your audience eye ball glued to your channel where advertisers pay you for the time your audience spent on them. Except that on YT, YT did everything automatically.

You are not asking your audience to commit their money but commit their attention. Then someone else pays you for that attention.

The risk of relying on YouTube is incredible, though. All of that can evaporate overnight for no reason.

 

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[MTF]

Internet marketers: “The money is in your list.”

Everyone else: “The money is in the money.”

"The money is in your list" is a great example of a terrible one-liner. I've had so many lists that I should be a billionaire now. A list by itself is useless.

 

[Kevin88660]

The risk of relying on YouTube is incredible, though. All of that can evaporate overnight for no reason.

Most successful youtubers have some backup contingency plans.

The easy and primitive method is a back up channel + a telegram group.

The back up channel you post similar theme content occassionally.

The telegram group helps you to keep the communication channel with your fans.

There is also power dynamics at play between you and YT.

When you have 1000 subscribers you are doing for fun. YT doesn’t care about you and you don’t care about YT either.

When you have 100k subscribers you make more money in side hustler than many in their day jobs. This is where you care a lot about not pissing Youtube off but Youtube doesn’t care much about you.

When you have a million followers this is when youtube have a designated account manager actively trying to build a relationship with you. They definitely do not want to lose the ad revenue or force you to jump to a different platform.

The issue about control is all about control awareness. If you understand the vulnerability and hedge the risk it is not as bad as it seems. It is about having backups and damage limitation, and not about choosing not to participate in anything that you have no control.

 

[Andy Black]

The risk of relying on YouTube is incredible, though. All of that can evaporate overnight for no reason.

A hobby I’ve been meaning to take up is creating a faceless YouTube channel and seeing if I can grow it. I think it would be fun, and a great learning experience. Oh, and I can rope our kids into it.

 

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[Andy Black]

I’m a big fan of some newsletters and YouTube channels, yet I’ve never spent any money on products they offer and never will. From the perspective of the entrepreneurs who run them, I’m a waste of time and money.

Funnily enough, you said this in your opening post @MTF.

I didn’t bring it up, but it seems relevant given recent posts. Even if you didn’t buy from those YouTube channels you’re a fan of, they likely make revenue from you consuming their content.

 

[MitchC]

Internet marketers: “The money is in the list.”

Everyone else: “The money is in the money.”

Grant Cardone: “Who’s got my money?”

 

[MJ DeMarco]

LOL that is probably one of the best non-insult insults I've ever heard addressed toward me. (I'm not mad, it's just funny because it's true)

Nothing I say is meant to be insulting, but merely observation on the body of work you've posted here over the years, most recently in the last 2 years.

Having a dialogue with you is extremely frustrating.

You seem confident that you've figured everything out, when in fact, your responses indicate that you're completely lost.

Here are 2 pages of conversation in a nutshell:

Advice: Advice A...
MTF: Yes, but...

Advice: Advice B...
MTF: That won't work...

Advice: Advice C...
MTF: I hate that...

Advice: Advice D...
MTF: That's not me...

Advice: Advice E...
MTF: I don't want to do that...

Advice: Advice F...
MTF: Yes, but X, Y, and Z are scams...

Advise: Advice G...
MTF: That won't work...

Advice: Advice H...
MTF: I tried that once...

Advice: Advice I...
MTF: Yes, but that is pointless...

Advice: Advice J...
MTF: Yes, but I don't like that...

Advice: Advice K...
MTF: Yes, but I don't think that works...

Advice: Advice L...
MTF: Yes, but I tried that 5 years ago...

Advice: Advice M...
MTF: Yes, I don't believe in X, Y, or Z...

From my point of view, I fear you're not looking for a solution or wanting to improve your daily thought-life, but just want to vent. Which is fine, however, at some point, people will stop suggesting things to help.

That said, Hope you smash COVID in the face and get well soon.

 

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[MTF]

Nothing I say is meant to be insulting, but merely observation on the body of work you've posted here over the years, most recently in the last 2 years.

Having a dialogue with you is extremely frustrating.

You seem confident that you've figured everything out, when in fact, your responses indicate that you're completely lost.

That makes sense and I agree. I haven't been in a good mental space for the last couple of years and in some ways I don't recognize myself, either. When I was younger I only hoped things could get better, then I got hit with life stuff and it seems like I can't recover since then.

That said, Hope you smash COVID in the face and get well soon.

Thank you. I'll respond to your other post hopefully tomorrow if I can finally think straight.

 

[ChasingDream97]

think this thread is spreading a bogus idea that you must have it all or most of it 'figured out' before you start. That can only be the furthest from the truth. You can start working on an audience. Or you can start working on your product. Or both.

Larger picture META is to just start - and the offer , and sale can always shape as you are working on your idea.

This is so reassuring