Preserving Wealth, My #1 Tip. Don't Get Married! (Or Maybe You Should?)

[GlobalWealth]

Ironically also like lawsuits...."it'll never happen to me"

 

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[Mattie]

I agree, I don't think any of us saw it coming, or planned on divorce. Fortunately, it depends on who you marry in the first place. What is your motivation for getting married? What is your intention? And do you have any clue what love is in the first place? Is your husband or wife focused on marriage, or still act like they're single while married? Is your spouse more of a priority then friends and family? Do you know how to set boundaries and not allow family and friends for creating issues in your marriage? Is addiction or abusive behavior a main theme in your marriage? Finances is always the big one and we've already pointed that out.

There are a million questions to be asked. And premarital counseling for six months prior didn't really make a difference. Life happens, those obstacles can come, and fortunately if you don't know how to navigate through the hardships, of course it will fail. In my case I know it was the best choice. And while it was quite damaging, I believe it was the wake up call I needed for the rest of my life in relationships and finances. I believe my ex would probably say the same thing. We may have been together for a specific purpose at the time to learn what we needed to about ourselves and life. I don't think either one of us has bad feelings about it anymore.

We're both right where we want to be with the people we are now with and perhaps at peace with that choice. I think really there is a lot of maturity that needs to be reached before people get married, and I don't feel many people are mature when they rush into marriage. It's more about the fantasy and dream of a wedding gown, the white picket fence, and the illusion it's a piece of cake.

Divorce sucks! It's been a major theme in my life since I was born. And can tell you it's complete death to everyone it affects emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. Not just the woman and man, but relatives, children, friends, etc. I've been divorced once and that was enough for me. Divorce is complete destruction to everyone involved. There's no reason for it and can be avoided. People have to take responsibility and ask the million questions before they even get married.

I've seen some of the stupidest people get in relationships for the stupidest reasons and then get married. What's even dumber is when a couple breaks up a million times and never stops and goes with other people and they know this already, but addicted to the game.

And if you're stupid enough to get married a few times to the same person that's even weirder. You already know the answer to that. Circumstances always change, but not always for the best if you don't think in the first place and make the right choices.

 

[Unfettered]

Behind each successful man is a line of women. But not for the reasons one might expect.

 

[RHL]

Well, I'm back, and boy, this thread has gotten really long.

After reading, I have a couple more things to add.

The first is that the argument against marriage in most of this thread has hinged on the presupposition that there is nothing that married couples can do that cohabiting couples can't do.

"If you can get rings, get married in a religious-only ceremony by a religious authority, change your name, buy a house, have kids, and grow old together, what's the point of inviting the state in? It grants no benefits and poses substantial liabilities!"

Sounds great, unfortunately...

In fact, part of the reason why there has been such a hullabaloo over marriage for gay and lesbian people in most states has not been because of the rings and church and property buying, but because the other benefits that come along with not just having an established relationship, but one in which the government officially recognizes as familial, are not inconsiderable. They include:

1. Automatic Hospital visitation privileges. By being married, you automatically have full visitation privileges for your critically ill partner who is unable to respond to questions about visitors. If you have a cohabitation agreement or no agreement, you'll need to file all sorts of additional paperwork with your doctor and local hospital, and pray the accident happens in the vicinity of a place where those documents are on file. @Iwokeup or @GIlman probably know tons more about this subject, but I know from my own background that if a spouse or parent isn't present and no AD/DNR is on file (which, if you're young, unmarried, and in exceptional health, it probably isn't), the hospital will often default to an ethical decision tree for critical care or end of life decisions in which the proposed "cohabitation agreement" would land you near the bottom of people to be considered in the decision making process, likely after your partner's surviving biological relatives, who may be estranged, malicious, or any manner of things. If your partner's family loves you, NBD, but if they hate you, this could spell big problems with no legal recourse for you, because in the eyes of the government, you essentially have no legal relationship, while your partner and his/her biological family do.

2. Shared health care, dental, and optical coverage with a flick of the pen. Many of us have slow-lane spouses whose jobs provide health care as one of their benefits. Although the cost of paying for your own health care might be trivial to a retired fastlaner, it most definitely is not to a huge number of young people just starting on this journey. Getting good dental and optical care is also essential. When I was in graduate school and, in the eyes of conventional wisdom, pretty young to be married, I developed a bone infection in my jaw that required both hospitalization and a dental specialist to treat. My out of pocket expenses for the whole ordeal were around $200, but the insurance soaked up bills soaring up to nearly $30,000 by the time everything was done. Even today, $30K would be a huge punch in the gut, but back then, it'd have totally cleaned my clock.

I'd have had to choose between the following options:

A. Pay about $500/mo for the dental, vision, and medical care I would have needed to cover these bills. Yes, cheaper plans exist, but these pay only a percentage for treatments, and then I'd have been on the hook for 0.15*30,000=4500, not chump change either for a starving student.

B. File for bankruptcy. This might have worked for me, but as a Fastlaner, you'd have to be sure that you skate under the Chapter 7 Means litmus or the Chapter 13 Debt Limits (much easier, but you're on the hook for more money afterward). Also, my credit would have been boned, I'd have been out of school because I was unable to pay, and as a result, I'd also likely be back in my parent's basement or homeless, which would be fun.

C. Get married and enjoy my wife's free healthcare and get sick whenever without worrying about it.​

Unlike the AD/DNR option of point 1, there is typically no "consent/ascent" workaround for this.Your partner's insurance company will probably tell you to pound sand unless her employer is very magnanimous, it's entirely up to them if they want to offer of the benefits to you, they're under no federal obligation to do so.

3. Shared pension and life insurance benefits with great ease. Not everyone who begins the fastlane journey is a spring chicken, some worked in the slow-lane for a period of time, and may have a pension which, depending on the circumstances, could be worth five, six, or even low seven-figure amounts. Again, so far as I know, there is absolutely no circumstances where an unmarried partner would be eligible for a slice of this pie.

A full list of the federal benefits of marriage can be indirectly accessed [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States)

Second, I want to hold the thread to the statistical stuff we've already talked about. People keep saying that you have a 50/50 shot of failing at this, when you probably don't, as I showed earlier. I want to also bring up the notion that there is a lot of worst-case scaremongering going on. To analogize, the arguments some are making are a bit akin to saying:

"There are 10.8 Million car crashes in the USA each year. That means each year, you have a 3.4% chance of getting into a car crash. And do you know what happens in a crash? You can be impaled on your steering wheel and simultaneously decapitated by a flying tire, and your daughters will be in the back seat watching your core-sampled decapitated body flail and gush gore all over them, scarring them for life and causing them both to get into hard drugs, get owned by pimps who put them in degradation porn, and ultimately commit suicide at age 23. I'm a crime scene investigator and I've seen it happen, and I've heard about it on the news too! Never drive!"

To speak plainly, the wrong assumptions are:

1. Everyone is equally likely to meet with a misadventure in the given area (already shown to be outrageously false, yet repeated frequently after that post in this thread).

2. Conflating the statistical probability of any misadeventure with the statistical probability of that misadeventure having the worst possible outcome, i.e., you being decapitated in a mild fender bender driving your daughters home from dance, or, to come back to our topic, being on the hook for $300k/yr child support in a divorce and losing your 145 year old family business to a disgruntled ex.​

So, if you're like me, your odds of divorce are probably more like 1/100 or 1/1000 than 1/2, and the odds that that divorce will financially ruin me for life are a fraction of that fraction, maybe 1/10000 or 1/100,000. Yet constantly, we hear that 50% of us will face the problem of a six-figure alimony payment, homelessness, and the loss of our companies if we're not careful. We all know enough divorced people who are living normal lives, outside of debtor's prison, to know that that outcome is not the regular case.

Most of the thread so far has assumed that the readers are all millionaires contemplating marriage, so small bonuses like these will be of no consequence to them. Of course, that's blatantly false, not only most of the readers, but most of the contributors to this thread are not multimillionaires. Having good health care at age 24 when you have a net worth of $12,000 is not a small deal. It is a huge deal. $300, 400, or $500/mo for health care, dental, and vision is not a small deal at that age, it is a huge deal. Not enough to make marriage a lock, for sure, but it shouldn't be ignored. After all, no family court judge is going to sentence a broke 25 year old Organo Gold salesman to pay $200,000 in annual alimony from their $22,000/yr salary when their marriage fails, but the hospital sure as hell will try and collect $300,000 from that same broke 25 year old when his appendix perforates and he lands in their ER, ICU, and PT wing with no insurance.

Finally, I want to talk about something more speculative. I'm sure the logical fallacy has a name, but it's not quite Hindsight Bias or the genetic fallacy, so I'm going to tentatively term the phrase "alternate universe fallacy" and replace it with the right term if such comes to light. This fallacy refers to the notion that we could have gotten to where we are today, or where we had hoped in our minds that we would be by now, by extracting some major deleterious episode in our life like a spouse we parted from on bad terms. It's easy to look at someone, like a tycoon who made his fortune by 30, got married to a young waitress at 36, then got sued for half his fortune in family court at age 38, as having been the victim of someone claiming a big chunk of his success who obviously had nothing to do with it. But for many of us, who met our spouses early in life, it's not so abundantly clear that, even if they're slow-lane, we'd really be the same people fundamentally without them. MJ might wish he had gone fastlane without the MLM BS and limo driver drudgery, but who's to say that without the experience of being a limo driver, he would have ever become rich?

We all know that there is a huge difference between an employee and an owner, not just financially (full vested stake vs. paid out of the pot and able to be fired), but in terms of commitment. Those of us in healthy marriages know the depths we go to for our spouses, doing things that, at least in my case, I never did for any girlfriend. Maybe that kind of thing can be developed over time, but if we're trying to have this conversation fairly, isn't it logical to at least consider the possibility that the option to leave damage-free and risk-free may incite the same lack of total, to-the-bitter-end commitment that we often see in employees but regularly find in owners? Marriage is no guarantee of the reverse, obviously, just like being CEO isn't a guarantee that you'll work hard, but it could be, and from there, it doesn't seem to be a far leap to postulate that getting 110% from your spouse in terms of support, willingness to suffer, etc. might be essential to you making it to the finish line as a business owner, i.e., being one of the very, very, very few people reading this thread who will ever even have millions of dollars to fret over some spouse leaving with. We might imagine that, in an alternate universe, we wouldn't need our wife of 20 years who eventually wanted out to make our big break, but I submit that if you got together 10, 15, or more years before your "big break," you shouldn't be so sure.

Anyway, this thread has certainly given everybody a lot to think about, as did Z's talk at the meeting. Although I think marriage is a good thing and people should do it under the right circumstances, I agree that it isn't for everybody, and I think the data certainly supports avoiding it at a very young age, and avoiding it if either you or your spouse are under or likely to be a source of financial strain for each other.

I guess the best advice is, if money is important enough to you to dictate your love life, don't marry someone less successful than you. This entire thread has (for the most part) assumed that every man on here will become a millionaire, and eventually get hitched with some conniving, impoverished housewife. The world is full of successful women. I got asked out by a neurosurgeon once; there was no doubt who was wearing the financial pants in that equation. They exist, and if business forums and networks like this work to be less sexist and more inclusive, more of them will exist every day.

Since the women have been pretty guiltless of this "my lover is going to be a burden on me" line of thinking in this thread, maybe the guys worrying about some Eve handing you a poison apple in family court need to get with somebody of similar financial means, get your prenups, and have fun conquering the world together.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Automatic Hospital visitation privileges. By being married, you automatically have full visitation privileges for your critically ill partner who is unable to respond to questions about visitors. If you have a cohabitation agreement or no agreement, you'll need to file all sorts of additional paperwork with your doctor and local hospital, and pray the accident happens in the vicinity of a place where those documents are on file. @Iwokeup or @GIlman probably know tons more about this subject, but I know from my own background that if a spouse or parent isn't present and no AD/DNR is on file (which, if you're young, unmarried, and in exceptional health, it probably isn't), the hospital will often default to an ethical decision tree for critical care or end of life decisions in which the proposed "cohabitation agreement" would land you near the bottom of people to be considered in the decision making process, likely after your partner's surviving biological relatives, who may be estranged, malicious, or any manner of things. If your partner's family loves you, NBD, but if they hate you, this could spell big problems with no legal recourse for you, because in the eyes of the government, you essentially have no legal relationship, while your partner and his/her biological family do.

Indeed. If you are not married then the situation devolves to whatever state law dictates. For example in Texas or Virginia, if you are not married then it becomes adult children, sisters/brothers, parents, and THEN common law or cohabitating couples w/o a specific piece of paper proving that they should have priority over the other family members.

 

[ryanbleau]

Having been married at 19 (for religious reasons) and then divorced at 25 and then remarried at 28( much better reasons) I have insights into marriage that the anti-marriage crowd will love and hate. I was raised a Jehovahs witness and was required to get married early and have kids. I found out she was cheating and left her and the religion. I have one son with her i would never regret having. The divorce cost me $280 . Total. no lawyers. Commonwealth state of Massachusetts. Gave her everything in the house. New wife I was dating for 2 months when i proposed. Sounds stupid but like in business if you see a dynamite deal you jump on it , All in. Never regretted that decision . Best partner i have ever had. Both in life and business. She has a better sense for money then i have. I have the creative talent to make things happen. We compliment each other better than we are alone. Our success is based on our partnership and shared goals\vision . No single person is good at everything. you need a partner to compliment your weaknesses and strengths. I find the angry almost violent reaction to the thought of being married has to come from some deep seated hatred of the opposite sex. hard to be successful with that much anger in your soul. Money cant love you back , and possessions wont mourn your passing. If your spending so much time and money building a future, Share it with someone worth sharing it with. Otherwise when your gone what was the purpose ?

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

A few things.

First off, this thread is about ASSET PROTECTION. This presumes you have some assets. So yeah, if you have a net worth of 12K, and chances are you're not going to get rich, then go get married and if/when lawyers clean you out, no great loss.

Second off, the concern here is not so much about a woman wiping out a man financially. Maybe others have raised this point, but I don't see it that way. This asset protection concern is more about LAWYERS and the SYSTEM wiping out a man, a woman, and their kids financially.

I've heard all about the advantages of marriage before. Insurance, hospital visitations, etc. This kind of stuff is really small potatoes when you consider the risks that come along with this legal deal. For ex, I pay $250 a month for health insurance. In the Obamacare age, most people wouldn't pay much more than that. I would much rather pay 250 than expose over a million dollars in assets to a pair of carnivorous divorce lawyers.

Last thing....and sorry if this sounds like a rant....but WTF is with this talk about your spouse making you rich??? I've dated a number of women while building my net worth, and I've never really experienced very much impact, positive OR negative, from the person I'm dating.

I dated a wonderful woman for a few years, I don't attribute any of my wealth building to her. It was my own focus, my own creativity, and my own decisions. I also dated a basket case for about 5-6 months, and I just kept trucking financially. She was a drag sometimes to deal with, but if you have powerful focus, nobody can stop you.

We are on a forum spawned by an amazing book, a book that gives us the exact formula for getting rich at a young age. "Get a supportive lover/spouse/girlfriend" is not a major part of that formula. So let's not mislead readers into thinking dating/marrying is a major ingredient to financial success. It is not. IMO this idea is a backwards rationalization from pro-marriage people who are more romantic minded.

Follow the fastlane and stay focused. Who you marry and if you marry has nothing to do with growing your fortune. That's just something old rich guys say because they're scared of their wives.

 

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[Texan]

Follow the fastlane and stay focused. Who you marry and if you marry has nothing to do with growing your fortune. That's just something old rich guys say because they're scared of their wives.

That's funny! And sad for you dude. You have obviously never enjoyed a lifelong committed relationship that frees you to become your best self. That's what those old rich guys are saying.

I'm sorry that people have bad experiences either with parents or in their own life with marriage. That sucks. But experience and history show that marriage is one of the cornerstones of wealth building (speaking macroeconomically). And a bunch or stupid divorce attorneys can't change that.

And these rich old guys can't ALL be scared of their wives...

 

[H. Palmer]

A few things.

We are on a forum spawned by an amazing book, a book that gives us the exact formula for getting rich at a young age. "Get a supportive lover/spouse/girlfriend" is not a major part of that formula. So let's not mislead readers into thinking dating/marrying is a major ingredient to financial success. It is not. IMO this idea is a backwards rationalization from pro-marriage people who are more romantic minded.

Follow the fastlane and stay focused. Who you marry and if you marry has nothing to do with growing your fortune. That's just something old rich guys say because they're scared of their wives.

Very well said.

The mistake people make is that if they read an article in a business magazine then everything suggested there must be true.

Like if several billionaire guys say they owe their wealth to their wives, then

a) They mean what they say
b) What they say is true
c) Because some guys say so, it must be true for all them
d) Because some guys mention the same common factor, this is the ONE determinant factor to get really rich.

So let's keep it simple: just get a wife and get rich. That's it.

Sorry guys, but this is incredibly lazy thinking. If you really do your research into billionaires, you will quickly find out that their spouse had literally NOTHING to do with it.

Just to name a few examples. Study the lives of multi billionaires Branson, Trump, Musk, Gates, Jobs.

Their success was determined by their upbringing and by the choices they consciously made from a young age and kept making every day regarding their dreams and their businesses. The patterns were set early on.

Their wives only came after the first few billions and some of them just came and went.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

That's funny! And sad for you dude. You have obviously never enjoyed a lifelong committed relationship that frees you to become your best self. That's what those old rich guys are saying.

I'm sorry that people have bad experiences either with parents or in their own life with marriage. That sucks. But experience and history show that marriage is one of the cornerstones of wealth building (speaking macroeconomically). And a bunch or stupid divorce attorneys can't change that.

And these rich old guys can't ALL be scared of their wives...

My relationships have been amazing and fulfilling. But this thread is not about me. Always great to see another personal attack by pro-marriage people tho. The fact that they are not life long and I don't sign a contract does not diminish their value in any way. No, you married people are not better than everyone else, so stop with the pity talk.

Marriage is a cornerstone of wealth building? Can you back that up? I'd love to hear it.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. So if many rich people happen to be married, that does not mean that marriage caused them to get rich.

My guess is that they built wealth by applying a formula similar to the fast lane, and they happened to decide marriage is a good idea because it's tradition. It's also possible that they might have been pressured into marriage by family and society. That happens a lot too.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

A few things.

For ex, I pay $250 a month for health insurance. In the Obamacare age, most people wouldn't pay much more than that.

Hahaha. 250/m? I seriously doubt there are more than 1 in 50 on this forum who are paying anything remotely close to that unless they qualify for ACA subsidies.

I don't live in the US but as a single I would pay around 500/m for decent coverage, not cadillac.

 

[RHL]

Their wives only came after the first few billions and some of them just came and went.

I don't think this was true in the case of most of these people. I think they were at least dating their SO before they got rich.

I mean, you have to weigh the options. Like I said, if you're already rich and just starting to date, that's an entirely different thing than if you met your spouse broke and climbed your way up after 15 years. If you're really fastlane, why not just relocate to a place that divides assets more equitably? It only costs about $1,500 and a (very long) day to fly to diametrically opposite points on the earth, if you're fastlane and have a black card for that sweet, sweet 1st class upgrade, move to somewhere more favorable?

The Z and DCT's entire argument has been that the government will screw with you if given the chance. That's very true. However, anyone who has ever filed taxes, tried to expand a building, tried to get a permit for a public event, or tried to do something in the legal system knows they also love to screw you when you don't play by their rules on their playground.

I think, if I had to do it again, I'd probably give a hard look to the video prenup that some here have suggested, but otherwise proceed as I have.

 

[Texan]

There was no personal attack in what I said, @DreamsCameTrue. Marriage is in fact, according to research, correlated with wealth building. As with all correlation, however, it does not hold true 100% of the time. Please see the following in reference to the economic benefits of marriage from both a micro and macro economic perspective:

http://fee.org/freeman/detail/the-economics-of-marriage-and-divorce

http://jos.sagepub.com/content/41/4/406.short

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/01/19/women-men-and-the-new-economics-of-marriage/

you believe so firmly in only one option. My belief remains that people should keep an open mind.

 

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[DreamsCameTrue]

Thanks for the links. Always interested in this kind of scholarly research.
I was just reading the Pew research, and basically I'm taking from it that married people have a higher household income because there are 2 people in the household. So married men have a higher household income than unmarriend men because the wife brings home a salary, and this effect has increased since 1970. Makes plenty of sense to me.

I content that un-married couples who co-habitate could enjoy this same increase in household income without the paperwork and legal risks.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

Hahaha. 250/m? I seriously doubt there are more than 1 in 50 on this forum who are paying anything remotely close to that unless they qualify for ACA subsidies.

I don't live in the US but as a single I would pay around 500/m for decent coverage, not cadillac.

I have a basic Kaiser plan, I've had it for years. I pay around 250. I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Texan]

Thanks for the links. Always interested in this kind of scholarly research.
I was just reading the Pew research, and basically I'm taking from it that married people have a higher household income because there are 2 people in the household. So married men have a higher household income than unmarriend men because the wife brings home a salary, and this effect has increased since 1970. Makes plenty of sense to me.

I content that un-married couples who co-habitate could enjoy this same increase in household income without the paperwork and legal risks.

I'm not entirely sure that's what's being reported in those links. I'm fact, if you read the details of this page ---> http://fee.org/freeman/detail/the-economics-of-marriage-and-divorce you will notice that it is per person net worth, and not household net worth. Other research shows that married people live longer as well. And all of this goes without saying that you have to marry the right person.

So contrary to your post, married people individually have a higher net worth, than their un married counterparts. The research says this, not me.

 

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[Wuz]

This thread would make sense, if everybody had the same personality, desires and needs.

 

[The Autobahn]

I dont want to go to details or start a new thread but marriage ruined me... specially when the person has mental issues which she hided during the relationship.
You will "finger" your life with the wrong person from A to Z.
Im happy that i didnt make any children it would get much more worse.

Im Currently on divorce and payed already the sum of a Good equipped BMW.

 

[Vigilante]

I dont want to go to details or start a new thread but marriage ruined me... specially when the person has mental issues which she hided during the relationship.
You will "finger" your life with the wrong person from A to Z.
Im happy that i didnt make any children it would get much more worse.

Im Currently on divorce and payed already the sum of a Good equipped BMW.

Marriage didn't ruin you.

Your inability to choose wisely did.

We are a sum total of the choices we make.

It's too easy for you to put the blame elsewhere.

You made a bad choice. "Marriage" didn't ruin you. You ruined yourself by not being able to find a better mate.

Unless you understand that you're destined to repeat it again. In the United States we call this "thinking with the big head."

 

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[The Autobahn]

Marriage didn't ruin you.

Your inability to choose wisely did.

We are a sum total of the choices we make.

It's too easy for you to put the blame elsewhere.

You made a bad choice. "Marriage" didn't ruin you. You ruined you by not being able to find a better mate.

Yes you can sit in the wrong plane that you choosed.. but which will crash in few hours.
Probability ? almost none.. you think. So you will get in the plane.

On the serious note, if i have any relationship in the future i will do a "stress test".
And i will more rely on Logical answers then "you know it better darling".

 

[Vigilante]

Yes you can sit in the wrong plane that you choosed.. but which will crash in few hours.
Probability ? almost none.. you think. So you will get in the plane.

On the serious note, if i have any relationship in the future i will do a "stress test".
And i will more rely on Logical answers then "you know it better darling".

You're too easy on yourself.

You sat on a plane with bolts coming off, a pilot that smelled of alcohol, and the engine was smoking before takeoff.

Then you got surprised when it crashed.

The same girl you married is now driving the BMW you paid for.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Yes you can sit in the wrong plane that you choosed.. but which will crash in few hours.
Probability ? almost none.. you think. So you will get in the plane.

On the serious note, if i have any relationship in the future i will do a "stress test".
And i will more rely on Logical answers then "you know it better darling".

I bet those issues weren't as hidden as you tell yourself.

Probably right there in front of you the whole time.

Same goes for the plane. Read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker...

You probably had a bad feeling about the plane but ignored it, because hey it's a plane, it's gotta be safe, right?

Hey she's hot, so those signs she's giving me probably aren't the real her.

 

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[The Autobahn]

The same girl you married is now driving the BMW you paid for.

More the Lawyer with 350$/hour rate.And the Sanatorium..

I bet those issues weren't as hidden as you tell yourself.

She showed outrageous anger over her sister thats the point i should have stopped the relationsship.
Besides that she didnt show any anger, which quickly changed after the marriage.

She had always anger moments but one day while i was working ,cops called me. I was stunned...
They told me your wife started to scream so the neighbours called us.
Cops told me to quiet her,and leaved.
She didnt shut up, so i leaved her going to my parents house.

One or two weeks later she ended in Sanatorium after screaming again.In the meantime i tried to Divorce her but it wont happen for 2 years according to our law if both parts don`t agree.
The lawyer decided that she can Keep my rented house and im forced to pay her montly salary until the divorce date which will also cost.

After few months she wants maybe the divorce.Which could save me 30k$ if im lucky...

 

[Lex DeVille]

More the Lawyer with 350$/hour rate.And the Sanatorium..



She showed outrageous anger over her sister thats the point i should have stopped the relationsship.
Besides that she didnt show any anger, which quickly changed after the marriage.

She had always anger moments but one day while i was working ,cops called me. I was stunned...
They told me your wife started to scream so the neighbours called us.
Cops told me to quiet her,and leaved.
She didnt shut up, so i leaved her going to my parents house.

One or two weeks later she ended in Sanatorium after screaming again.In the meantime i tried to Divorce her but it wont happen for 2 years according to our law if both parts don`t agree.
The lawyer decided that she can Keep my rented house and im forced to pay her montly salary until the divorce date which will also cost.

After few months she wants maybe the divorce.Which could save me 30k$ if im lucky...

It is what it is...

Anger isn't the only sign of problems in a relationship anymore than a plane's engine being on fire is the only sign of a bad flight.

Anger issues also doesn't mean the relationship can't work. But that's the responsibility of both parties, and it starts with the party that notices a problem.

Anyway, the situation sounds like it sucks but...what are you going to do moving forward to make life better for yourself?

What changes will you make today to start fixing shit and get back on track toward the Fastlane?

 

[The Autobahn]

It is what it is...

Anyway, the situation sounds like it sucks but...what are you going to do moving forward to make life better for yourself?

What changes can you make today to start fixing shit and get back on track toward the Fastlane?

Buying .357 Magnum to fix problems... J/K

I will be happy to reach the decent slowlane after getting her out of my life. Im healthy but mentally shaken up.
Also maintaining and doing my Ecommerce stuff to provide value as much i can.
In the back of my head i want to kickstart a project, which im hoping to do in the future.

But really a marriage could be a disaster, today on the swiss newspaper: the former Chief of Braun Medical was arrested for the attempted assassination of his wife.
A sum of BMW is a peanut in those casses... well the life goes on.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Yes you can sit in the wrong plane that you choosed

Wow, classic example on how we like to blame externalities on our circumstances and build a narrative that excuses it.

You sat on a plane with bolts coming off, a pilot that smelled of alcohol, and the engine was smoking before takeoff.

Then you got surprised when it crashed.

The same girl you married is now driving the BMW you paid for.

Bam! Zing!

But, the sex was good right? She was hot and all my friends liked her! It just made sense to get married after 2 months eh!?

Sorry to be facetious, but the dance of circumstance is often waltzed in the puddles we create. Take responsibility-- marriage didn't ruin you, a poor choice did. And a good choice will get you back on your feet.

 

[Vigilante]

Wow, classic example on how we like to blame externalities on our circumstances and build a narrative that excuses it.



Bam! Zing!

But, the sex was good right? She was hot and all my friends liked her! It just made sense to get married after 2 months eh!?

Sorry to be facetious, but the dance of circumstance is often waltzed in the puddles we create. Take responsibility-- marriage didn't ruin you, a poor choice did. And a good choice will get you back on your feet.

It took me a long time and a lot of crashed airplanes before I realized (with help of reinforcement here at the forum) that my life was nothing more and nothing less than the net result of the little and big choices I made along the way. Who I am today is exactly what I chose. That is a bitter pill to swallow for many, and once upon a time it was for me also. I get it.

Introspection and personal responsibility is the harder path.

With empathy towards those whose life thrust them into abusive circumstances (still, you have a choice to make in the worst of circumstances that will shape your future) ...that is not the case for the AutoBahn. AutoBahn, like me, is solely responsible for where he's at today. You can't blame the airplane when you were the pilot. The GREAT news is that also means he's responsible (good or bad, sink or swim) for where he will find himself a year from now.

You can either continue the cycle, or break out of it.

 

[DreamsCameTrue]

I agree with those saying poor choices are what results in your current situation.

In this case, there are 2 poor choices.

1- You chose a mentally ill person to be with.
IMO this can happen to the best of us because women and men really do hide their issues for the first few months or years.

2- You chose to enter into a legal contract (marriage) that will give you massive financial penalties if your relationship doesn't work out. You chose to let the government and the legal system have power over how your relationship will end and how your finances will end up.

But it could be worse, at least you're not in the USA. If you were here you'd be buying 4 BMWs.

You would have got out of this with just some hurt feelings if you had avoided marriage. Getting married was the big mistake. Without marriage you would have felt lousy for a few months and then made a full recovery. Now, you're going to have a long drawn out problem and lose lots of money. This problem will take years to clean up and you may be resentful about the money for decades.

Readers take heed! The pro-marriage guys are telling Autobahn it's all his fault, and that's what kind of response you also can expect if you don't like what the legal system feeds you. "Oh you lost 100K on a crazy chick? Too damn bad, it's all your fault."

 

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[Formless]

As a young guy still at university, this thread has been super interesting to read.

First time seeing a conversation about this topic with such depth.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

I agree with those saying poor choices are what results in your current situation.

In this case, there are 2 poor choices.

1- You chose a mentally ill person to be with.
IMO this can happen to the best of us because women and men really do hide their issues for the first few months or years.

2- You chose to enter into a legal contract (marriage) that will give you massive financial penalties if your relationship doesn't work out. You chose to let the government and the legal system have power over how your relationship will end and how your finances will end up.

But it could be worse, at least you're not in the USA. If you were here you'd be buying 4 BMWs.

You would have got out of this with just some hurt feelings if you had avoided marriage. Getting married was the big mistake. Without marriage you would have felt lousy for a few months and then made a full recovery. Now, you're going to have a long drawn out problem and lose lots of money. This problem will take years to clean up and you may be resentful about the money for decades.

Readers take heed! The pro-marriage guys are telling Autobahn it's all his fault, and that's what kind of response you also can expect if you don't like what the legal system feeds you. "Oh you lost 100K on a crazy chick? Too damn bad, it's all your fault."

Many, if not most, of the best long term partner material ladies are going to force you to choose.

If you want to pre-negotiate the cost of divorce, do a pre-nup.