Netflix's Game Changers (Vegan Documentary)

[MJ DeMarco]

Isnt @MJ DeMarco vegan these days? Perhaps he can help you get an accurate view on this.

Yes, for several years.

However discussing a plant-based diet (or the pejorative, veganism) is like religion and politics. As such, I refuse to do it here. People don't care about facts (or the closed-door reality of the meat trade) and are mostly interested in defending their biases with their selective studies and anecdotal YouTube videos. So I'll just share my experience.

I went vegan after I did the research, and from all angles and all extremes. As an animal lover, I found it was another cultural Script that I couldn't reconcile. Other factors played a role as well, so it was the combination of factors that made me do the move.

Prior to that I was Paleo for 6 years and a heavy meat eater.

Based on my personal results and how I feel, I will be vegan for the rest of my life, regardless if the dietary shift is just a fad or more transcendent.

As for the results, I recently saw someone who I hadn't seen in twelve years. He looked at me and asked, "Wow, did you discover the fountain of youth?" For someone my age, I'm in great shape. My energy levels are better than when I was Paleo. When I look at other folks my age they have guts billowing above their belt, zero muscle tone, bad skin, and are on six medications.

But moreover and more importantly, quantitatively, my blood results are the best I've seen in thirty years. YES, thirty years.

For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.

Additionally, I've had GERD since my mid-30's and was advised to take a daily proton-pump inhibitor, aka Zantac, et. al. That also disappeared as did the need for the medication.

That's my experience. Of course it is anecdotal and just one story, but someone asked.

As for this documentary...

I haven't seen it so I can't comment.

I'm sure it is produced with an agenda, so I can see why some might call it "propaganda" as all narrative based documentaries are produced with that in mind.

Whatever anyone decides, you have to do what works for you, both heart and soul. What started out as the hardest thing I've ever accomplished, has become quite easy. And I'm happy with the outcome.

PS: I get plenty of protein, but thanks for asking.

 

[Mhinto]

I thought the movie was really well put together but the science is super misleading.

The argument is that a plant based diets are superior for athletic performance because of glycogen (carbs).

They then compare a plant based diet to a ketogenic diet which is very high fat, moderate protein, very very low carb.

It’s a no brainer that the diet with high amounts of carbs is going to be superior for athletes. Carbs are our main energy source. Comparing plant based to keto is like comparing apples to oranges.

The whole bit about gladiators being plant based is completely speculative and not peer reviewed.

They showed athletes that were not plant based but then switched to plant based diets that had major improvements. This happens across the board when it comes to fitness. If you do the same thing for a long time you will plateau. Do the same workout for a long time and you will quit seeing results. Eat the same diet for a long time and the same thing happens. Your body is an adaptation machine.

They show you vegan champion athletes. The problem is that most champions are not vegan. What about those people?

Nate Diaz vs. Connor McGregor. It’s true that Diaz was the underdog. What they didn’t tell you is how much bigger he is than McGregor. McGregor moved up 2 weight classes to fight Diaz! Something else they forgot to mention are all the non plant based athletes that have beaten Diaz.

The case was made for a plant based diet while they completely demonized eating animal protein. This documentary isn’t about showing you a superior diet. It’s about a movement or lifestyle. I think people that are vegan or vegetarian because they don’t want animals to suffer have a noble cause. But if you’re doing it for health I think there is a better way.

There most definitely are people that can benefit from a vegan or plant based diet. It’s also true that some people would benefit from a carnivore diet. That’s individual variance.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Reiterating that I haven't seen this particular documentary, for me the real story is that the mainstream medical establishment REFUSES to address to their patients that nutrition and diet are interlinked to disease.

You can pull up any nutrition based documentary, whether it be Paleo, Raw/Whole Food, Plant-Based, Keto, and each will present an argument (and evidence) that a significant dietary lifestyle change can reverse disease, or their markers. The American diet is so f*cked up that any substantial dietary change focused on nutrition tends to have profound results.

Right now it's easier for MDs to prescribe a pill than it is to tell someone that their diet is killing them.

http://instagr.am/p/B4nSCuAJlsR/ View: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4nSCuAJlsR/

 

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[alexkuzmov]

Dont fall for it guys. Dont fall for the vegan propaganda.
These types of documentaries are written by clever people, feature useful idiots and are made at best to sell you something and at worst to fool you into thinking that plant protein is something you want to rely on for muscle(and/or body growth).

Unfortunately the truth lies hidden in chemistry, bio-chemistry to be more specific.
Most people dont have a clue and are easily influenced by such documentaries.
If you goal is health, then please consider learning about chemistry.
DO NOT blindly trust useful idiots, think for yourself!

You think I`m talking bullshit?
Read about what proteins are made from.
Read what protein families are.
Read what the difference between plant and animal protein is.
Read how cellulose(fibre) fits into the picture when it comes to plant protein.
Read about amino acids, their function in the body.
Read about the Krebs cycle.
Read about the Lectin protein family.
Read about Creatin and Carnosine.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

A vegan couple already starved their baby to death.

Wow, the propaganda on this is some serious next level shit.

When you malnourish a child and fail to feed him, the fact that their parents were vegan doesn't matter. The "vegan" element was added as a convenient fact to help drive an agenda driven story, in other words, to rile up the meat-crusaders like you in a tizzy. (It's called narrative engineering)

That said...

Curious, @Maxboost did you even bother to watch the documentary?

Or are you so triggered, so threatened by vegans that you've wasted hours posting YOUR propaganda?

Why the F*ck do you care what I eat? Am I telling you what to eat?

Funny how anti-vegans claim that vegans are preachy.

There's only one group on this thread preaching and offering a militant response.

The vegans (those of you who feel like "coming out" and dealing this new form of racism and ridicule) don't care how many videos you post. As if we haven't seen (or heard) it all before.

• I'm not losing my hair.
• My blood is fine. (First clean bill of health in over 20 years, but OMG, there's a Joe Rogan video! Oooooh let me dismiss it because some YT celebrity with an agenda says so!)
• My B12 is fine.
• I get plenty of protein.
• I have a better BMI today than I did 3 years ago when I first went vegan.
• My body-fat % has gone down by 22% while maintaining my muscle-mass.
• I have more energy.
• My cholesterol dropped from 272 to 190.
• My GERD disappeared.
• My doctor stopped telling to take statins.
• My doctor stopped telling me to take PPIs.
• My IBS (bloat and gastrointestinal issues) disappeared.
• Spoiler: Performance, blood flow, sleep, and circulation improvement

  Once I turned 45, penile tumescence ["morning wood"] pretty much disappeared (maybe once per month)and now years later it has returned to a daily occurrence. While I never had ED, there's a difference there as well.
• My healing time improved. (Recently sprained an ankle that normally would take me about 10 days to get over, but it only took 48 hours.)

I will be vegan for life.

But go ahead, post some more YouTube videos.

Or dare I start posting pro-vegan videos from YouTube? The kind you don't want to see? Of course I wont, because I have respect for whatever diet someone choose to be on.

I find it absolutely crazy that members of a forum that has read the book "Unscripted " and are told to think critically fall into the "Script" of veganism

Ha Ha -- so a practice that is practiced by a tiny % of the world (maybe 3%?) is a SCRIPT?? But what you do -- what EVERYONE does -- and is promoted by trillion dollar empires is NOT the Script??? Do you even hear yourself?

You're delusional.

BTW, if you're practicing what EVERYONE practices, you're following a Script, whether it be tradition, culture, or what the media tells you. (Vegan couple kills baby!!)

I did my research.

And I practiced a variety of lifestyle diets for years.

To everyone else who in considering a vegan diet as a life change, a lifestyle, I wholeheartedly recommend it.

DON'T BELIEVE THEIR PROPAGANDA.

Do what works for you.

Obviously, not all people have the same genetics, so if it doesn't work for you, stop.

Move on.

I don't fall into the camp who believes one diet fits all. Never have.

And BTW, being vegan means plant-based, not Beyond Burgers, Gardien, Impossible Whoppers and processed vegan crap.

PS: I finally watched the documentary but it really didn't tell me anything I already didn't uncover in my own prior research. I also think that showing "outliers" to a vegan diet doesn't really help the cause. People can't relate to athletes and strongmen, they related to the average Joe. I was hoping there would be more of this. I also wasn't a big fan of Arnold showing up... but whatever.

PS2: And here's the real thing of note: This post will get very FEW likes. Why? Because people would rather be right while having me sick as a dog, rather than be wrong and having me rave about health. Imagine reporting that you feel the healthiest you've ever felt in your entire life, better at 50 than 25!? Great right? Perhaps worth a like? Nope, just say you're vegan. Freaking sad.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I’m watching a Netflix movie called The Game Changers. It’s about plant protein being superb for athletes. Not only do the vegan athletes function better they repair better. I help prep athletes for major sporting events every week in my career.. I had NO clue about this stuff.

I need somebody like @ChrisV to geek out and start doing some research and then connect the dots to glysophates because if I wanted to go vegan I don’t know if I can even trust the produce they’re delivering to my grocery store.

I dunno if you guys watched the documentary back in the day called Super Size Me but that movie seriously impacted me. I’m halfway through Game Changers and I’m feeling like this might do the same.

It’s extremely well done. The narrator is a UFC fighter. He walks you through the research. It’s utterly fascinating.

ETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They just did a scientific experiment about nocturnal erectile performance after meat diet vs plant diet and IT WAS HUGE!!

Hahahaaaaaa!! No seriously. The guys who are plant had bigger erections and more of them. Y’all.

Guys

I think you’re gonna like this freaking movie.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Vegan diet being superior to an omnivorous diet is 100% false.

You may “feel” better at first (usually placebo or just change in general), but after a while the lack is certain vitamins and nutrients takes it’s toll.

“But you can just take supplements!”

IMO any diet that needs outside supplementation is laughable at best, and downright dangerous at worst.

There are always exceptions to the rule. People look at them like gods.

Don’t even get me started on “ethical veganism”.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Any noticeable difference in energy level, sleep and athletic performance?

Generally speaking, everything has improved. Well, not everything: I'm still clumsy AF and increased activity leads to accidents. I recently fell into a hole and sprained an ankle so I've been gimping the last few days. I also pulled a calf muscle (that was torn years ago) by doing excessive amounts of jump roping.

I also have an MTHFR gene mutation so that has a negative impact on my energy levels if I don't watch my folates and B12s. But overall, I feel in great shape.

Also I neglected to mention that I no longer need to take a proton-pump inhibitor for chronic GERD. That disappeared as did the need for the medication. Acid reflux F*cking vanished like a fart in the wind.

They just did a scientific experiment about nocturnal erectile performance after meat diet vs plant diet and IT WAS HUGE!!

OMG, now that you mention this, I can report something similar... lets just say it relates to the morning.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Thank you.. this thread was getting crazy.

Yes, and take note on WHY it was getting crazy. Was it the vegans offering a militant response? Or the meat eaters?

The sad part is that 99% of people going vegan now do it to be different or ethical, not realizing the potential health risks involved.

Sorry, but your 99% metric is asinine. People aren't going vegan because it's cool or counter-culture. I'm sure there are weak-minded folks who think of it like that, but I don't know any.

And you say "the potential health risks" as if it were a fact that the vegan diet is dangerous.

Pure fallacy and propaganda, again, put up by deeply vested interests that reside on both sides of the political aisle, including the meat lobby. I see they convinced you pretty well.

You know how many times I've heard someone say, "Gee, I fixed my diabetes by eating a diet rich in cheese, burgers, and milkshakes!" NEVER. But I hear it all the time when it comes to plant-based diets. (BTW, the SO is a nurse who works with chronically obese and diabetic patients, and also is vegan.)

But yea, I'll look forward to the next study that suggests milk is good for you, you know, the one put forth by the American Dairy Association.

This is why I refuse to argue with people about veganism because they state their arguments as if based on factual scientific data, when their facts are entirely centered around dogma, YouTube videos from agenda driven personalities, and the Meat Packing Lobby. (More doctors prefer Camels!)

That said, I'm not here to convince anyone to go vegan.

When I did so three years ago, I've largely kept the dietary move to myself.

If I wasn't asked, I didn't tell. Still, it is one the most pervasive scripts I've ever found in culture, more so than the "go to college" or "save a $100 a month and get rich" narratives.

I'm done talking about it.

While I won't preach my views to the forum, I'm also not going to stand idly by and allow ignorance and propaganda to pervade. My forum won't be used to promote veganism, but it certainly wont be used to perpetuate myths, dogma, and typical militant responses from triggered carnivores threatened by the shift.

Like religion and politics where facts don't matter and reason is tossed in favor of bias and tradition, the topic is incapable of a rational debate.

There's a reason why poliitcs and religion is not allowed on this forum. And now we can add plant-based topics, or its nasty trigger word, "veganism".

Thread closed.

 

[Danny Sullivan]

I’m really curious about the energy thing. I *never* have consistent energy so if that changes I would be thrilled.

Switched to vegetarian in 2014, then vegan in 2016 and may got bad news: A magical change won't happen. It's nothing like the "superpower" it's been advertised throughout the whole "mega trend" media.
Determination and the will to do the right thing (even if there's no applause or appreciation for it) will get you up when you feel like you won't.
So from my perspective, it's pretty much the same as before. Without hurting animals. Which is sufficient to me and worth the "hassle".

Best of luck to you!

Edit: Forks over Knives might be an interesting watch for you (and others).

 

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[MakeItHappen]

Common side effects of veganism are: accelerated aging, cavities, rotten teeth, depression, anxiety, acne, digestion issues, "skinny-fat" build, lack of libido, irritability, loss of muscle, lack of energy, brain fog and hair loss among females.

What? lol I call bullshit on this. Each of these side effects effect millions upon millions of people... no matter if they eat vegan, paleo, keto etc. ... you can eat junk food bullshit with each of these diets. And you can eat in a way that gives you all the vitamins and minerals you need with all of these diets.

I have become a vegan years ago and so have 8 people around me... none had the effect you talk about. Now that's just anecdotal experience. I have eaten junk food and healty diets when I wasn't a vegan and I have eaten junk food and healty since I am a vegan. You can do both and all the "common side effects" you talk about will happen to you if you eat junk food. This doesn't happen if you choose healty sources for your vitamins and minerals. I have had blood tests over the years and so have most of the 8 people and they are all fine.

Everybody that comments on these kind of threads pushes there own beliefs anyways and nobody changes there minds. That's why I haven't commented on these threads but a comment like yours is so ignorant it isn't even funny...

I have watched game changers and yes like each and every documentary it has an agenda just like the documentaries about paleo, keto etc. ...

BTW... I have started lifting when I went vegan with a friend that eats meat, diary and eggs but without any junk food, snacks and sweets. We both gained the same amount of muscle over the years and we are both healty accourding to our blood tests. This teached my friend that you can be healty and ripped as a vegan which he didn't believe at all at the beginning. At the same time it helped me to not become a "militant" vegan because I see that my friend is doing just fine health wise as well with his diet.

 

[MTEE1985]

Yes, for several years.

However discussing a plant-based diet (or the pejorative, veganism) is like religion and politics. As such, I refuse to do it here. People don't care about facts (or the closed-door reality of the meat trade) and are mostly interested in defending their biases with their selective studies and anecdotal YouTube videos. So I'll just share my experience.

I went vegan after I did the research, and from all angles and all extremes. As an animal lover, I found it was another cultural Script that I couldn't reconcile. Other factors played a role as well, so it was the combination of factors that made me do the move.

Prior to that I was Paleo for 6 years and a heavy meat eater.

Based on my personal results and how I feel, I will be vegan for the rest of my life, regardless if the dietary shift is just a fad or more transcendent.

As for the results, I recently saw someone who I hadn't seen in twelve years. He looked at me and asked, "Wow, did you discover the fountain of youth?" For someone my age, I'm in great shape. My energy levels are better than when I was Paleo. When I look at other folks my age they have guts billowing above their belt, zero muscle tone, bad skin, and are on six medications.

But moreover and more importantly, quantitatively, my blood results are the best I've seen in thirty years. YES, thirty years.

For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.

That's my experience. Of course it is empirical and just one story, but someone asked.

As for this documentary...

I haven't seen it so I can't comment.

I'm sure it is produced with an agenda, so I can see why some might call it "propaganda" as all narrative based documentaries are produced with that in mind.

Whatever anyone decides, you have to do what works for you, both heart and soul. What started out as the hardest thing I've ever accomplished, has become quite easy. And I'm happy with the outcome.

PS: I get plenty of protein, but thanks for asking.

Any noticeable difference in energy level, sleep and athletic performance?

I’m already being told to expect medication in 20 years for cholesterol due to genetics. I have no doubt I can effect change in other ways before then.

They just did a scientific experiment about nocturnal erectile performance after meat diet vs plant diet and IT WAS HUGE!!

How did they measu...nevermind

 

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[garyfritz]

For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.

Good that you stayed off statins. Those things are toxins. They lower cholesterol levels (and may reduce coronary problems) but they do it by interfering with some critical biological functions. They cause many serious side effects. The FDA has issued an expanded warning on the dangers of statins, and studies show statins offer almost no improvement in overall all-cause survival rates. See e.g. this meta-analysis: Statins are not associated with a decrease in all cause mortality in a high-risk primary prevention setting | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

Cholesterol is not the devil -- your body NEEDS cholesterol. Your brain is something like 40% cholesterol, and your cell walls are made of the stuff. I can't find the studies right now, but recent large-scale studies say that cholesterol is vital. If you look at all-cause mortality, it DROPS as cholesterol levels increase, until you get to about 250 mg/ml (for men). After that the all-cause mortality starts to go up. So 250 is actually BETTER for you than <200. For women, the all-cause mortality keeps dropping as cholesterol increases.

My cholesterol runs in the 250-300 range, always has. My MD was convinced I was going to keel over any second and tried to feed me statins. Finally we measured my carotids with a sonogram, and found I had absolutely clean arteries -- the report said it was like a man half my age.

Cholesterol isn't the cause of the problem; it's a symptom. It's like a band-aid that's used to try to heal the problem: inflammation. Usually caused by sugar, stress, pollution, etc. Reduce your sugar intake and you'll help your atherosclerosis without statin's nasty side effects.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

James Cameron has a vested financial interest in a company the sells vegan products, so his motivations behind this documentary are suspect.

That's not surprising, any food-based/diet based documentary will have an agenda. And those financing the agenda often have other interests.

Keep in mind that vegan meat alternatives are processed food.

Funny how non-vegans think vegans are all about the meat alternatives.

Yes, vegan meat alternatives are probably as junky as any non-vegan junk food. No matter what anyone eats, canola is simply not a good oil, and it doesn't matter what label it receives. A vegan who truly eats "plant-based" ain't eating Beyond Burgers and Gardien everyday, but maybe once every few weeks, perhaps at a restaurant or at a weekend BBQ.

would you (or anyone!) recommend a specific plant-based cookbook/recipe website?

I don't have any, but you would be amazed at what can be done. You have to be willing to experiment with things. Your best bet is to go to Costco or a book store and find a vegan cookbook. Flip through it and buy the one that has the most recipes that strike you as tasty. Use those recipes as templates.

I should also note that your taste cravings will change to more plant-based options as you progress. The intial shift is the hardest thing I ever did, but it gets easier as your body adapts to less sugar and processed carbs.

 

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[Maxboost]

I tried to avoid topics about vegan diet, but damn, where did you get all this information from?
I've been vegan for 2 years. Yeah, not that long, but enough to tell a difference. Guess what?
I'm looking, feeling and performing better than ever. Could I have progressed the same on any other diet? Probably. But I just can't let you leave such a crap here.

You mentioned a looot of side-efects, but zero sources? How come?
I won't deny that vegans can experience them. Yet these are very common issues for all types of diets.

Here's my experience: I have gained 15 pounds of mostly lean weight in past 10 months and pretty much doubled all my compound lifts. I do endurance sports - swimming, running, cycling. I'm bigger, stronger, hornier and more motivated than ever before.

Of course, it takes time until you fully adjust to vegan diet. It DOES take research and then putting the acquired knowledge in practice.

Here's the thing about deficiencies. Most of what you mentioned actually can be found in plant sources, but few of them (b12, creatine, carnitine, carnisine, cla can't). I do take supplements, quite a lot actually. Mainly due exercising 6 times a week (even more in the summer), but also because I'm vegan. Honestly, I don't see such a big deal because I rather take few supplements instead of contributing to the barbaric animal farming industry AND damaging my health.

Yes! It does take effort. Yes! It does complicate several aspects of life. And I honestly don't even care what you eat, but please, if you do make such a serious claims - back them up. Thank you!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eefgRVi7Ko


Here are 2 reputable scientists, TLW? The vegan doctor got CRUSHED and admitted that the vegan diet IS NUTRIENT deficient at the end. Dr. Kahn (vegan doctor) says "DON'T BE A DUMB VEGAN", takes your supplements, which ultimately begs the question " why would a supposedly superior diet need supplements?".

Also pay CLOSE attention to the end, where ALL of the nutrients that are ONLY FOUND in animal products.

Again, vegans will not address the anti nutrients in plants that prevent the human body from proper digestion. See my previous post. It's basically flat out misinformation from the vegan community that you can GET the same quality nutrients from plants than from animals. The plants defence mechanism will prevent you from getting those nutrients.

As for requiring a research study to show a nutrient deficient diet does terrible side effects shows an appeal to authority fallacy. Nutritional Science (Epidemology) is pretty much useless and junk science as mentioned in the debate above. And nutritional science ALWAYS LAGS real world experience. From the book Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle ( the bible of bodybuilding nutrition) Tom Venuto states that the body building diet in his book HAS NEVER been scientifically verified, even though body builders like arnold schwarzenegger has been doing it since the 60s.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q_kA5yKwFE&t=20s


TL, DW?- nutritional Science is bullshit and part of the script that MJ talks about. Most nutritional scientist are NOT randomized controlled test groups, lack the proper sample size, and include bogus self reporting.

The side effects I listed above are taken from all of the " I'm no longer vegan videos" on Youtube, there are hundreds of them on Youtube. Check this small sample out. If you want, I can post every video on this thread as sources.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g64uGnIdryE

View: https://youtu.be/1BJSG9A7B68?t=132


Aging 10 years in a matter of 2 years....no thanks...

Vegans inject themselves because of their lack of B12, does this look healthy to you?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMV7Eb1p2rY&t=239s


Vegan women lose their periods

Vegan Women Losing Period Compilation

Veganism is just another way for corporations to sell you supplements, fake meat, and medicine when the diet eventually fails you.

 

[Mhinto]

Look at the trio of production, its a James Cameron movie. That to me screams ENTERTAINMENT rather than something for educational purposes.

The movie concludes that certain athletes beat previous records in their sports by being vegan, which is a weird conclusion to draw. What about all the other thousands of athletes who beat records and did amazing things while not being vegan?

It felt like watching a Youtube conspiracy video tbh.

I'm thinking Arnold is using this documentary as his way to get into the plant based supplement industry.

 

[Kid]

Another thing to notice (besides good replies above) is that (or whether) those athletes got to their 80% level on meat and then switched to vegan for 100% or were they vengan from the start.

It would be interesting if the SWITCH of diet was the important factor and not the diet itself.

 

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[BellaPippin]

I believe there's maaany levels between "Super Size Me" and "Vegan" that I'd rather fall into (and I do)

I still eat meat but I have lowered my consumption of it though, for environmental purposes. I try to buy products with responsible sourcing as much as I can as well.

Some dairy in the form of occasional string cheese and some butter.

Eggs sometimes once I'm not sick of them anymore from the last time I tried going keto.

Veggies by the ton

Morning wheat toast for some grains, maybe oatmeal. Some fruit.

Occassional Tiramisu cake or frappuccino treat.


I feel what affects my energy the most is my lack of regular physical exertion a.k.a. getting a good workout. (personally)

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Yes, for several years.

However discussing a plant-based diet (or the pejorative, veganism) is like religion and politics. As such, I refuse to do it here. People don't care about facts (or the closed-door reality of the meat trade) and are mostly interested in defending their biases with their selective studies and anecdotal YouTube videos. So I'll just share my experience.

I went vegan after I did the research, and from all angles and all extremes. As an animal lover, I found it was another cultural Script that I couldn't reconcile. Other factors played a role as well, so it was the combination of factors that made me do the move.

Prior to that I was Paleo for 6 years and a heavy meat eater.

Based on my personal results and how I feel, I will be vegan for the rest of my life, regardless if the dietary shift is just a fad or more transcendent.

As for the results, I recently saw someone who I hadn't seen in twelve years. He looked at me and asked, "Wow, did you discover the fountain of youth?" For someone my age, I'm in great shape. My energy levels are better than when I was Paleo. When I look at other folks my age they have guts billowing above their belt, zero muscle tone, bad skin, and are on six medications.

But moreover and more importantly, quantitatively, my blood results are the best I've seen in thirty years. YES, thirty years.

For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.

Additionally, I've had GERD since my mid-30's and was advised to take a daily proton-pump inhibitor, aka Zantac, et. al. That also disappeared as did the need for the medication.

That's my experience. Of course it is empirical and just one story, but someone asked.

As for this documentary...

I haven't seen it so I can't comment.

I'm sure it is produced with an agenda, so I can see why some might call it "propaganda" as all narrative based documentaries are produced with that in mind.

Whatever anyone decides, you have to do what works for you, both heart and soul. What started out as the hardest thing I've ever accomplished, has become quite easy. And I'm happy with the outcome.

PS: I get plenty of protein, but thanks for asking.

Thank you for sharing. I think I’ve been wondering about veganism for a long time but just like everything else that takes huge amounts of change, it takes time and ppl explaining things calmly.

How did they measu...nevermind

All jokes aside, even though I’m still laughing, they used fitted rings to measure the guys circumference and how many times during the night that specific muscle was “awake”.

I can’t talk about this..without laughing too much. I’m leaving. Just watch the movie. Then you guys can comment on it. Lol.

 

[Solid Snake]

I found the documentary super good, of course it is a bit biased showing all those athletes winning at their sports with their vegan diet however that being said we have examples in tennis (Djokovic is pretty much plant based) and Soccer (Lionel Messi) so probably there is some truth about it.

Diet is just one part of your "wellbeing" equation so you have to also see other variables to optimize your life. A guy like Warren Buffet eats like a fat 5 years old however he is healthy because of low stress and overall enjoyment of life.

its not about being a veggie or carnivore but rather macronutrients and whole foods.

documentaries like this are interesting but in general, diet cults should be avoided

 

[Siddhartha]

A thorough failure masked as being "Scientific"
Don't let them make you think it's okay to cut out your BIGGEST source of essential nutrients.

Game changers is a criminally misleading waste of film funded by a man with a clear conflict of interest (founder and CEO of a 140 million dollar pea-protein enterprise). Many things could be said, and many thorough takedowns, debunkings, and teardowns can be found online. I implore to start with just one and see if you aren't facepalming at some of the film's claims after.

One takedown that EVERYONE should check out, is Layne Norton's beautiful, one-two demolition. Norton is an uber-skeptic, and usually HATES modern "low-carb/carnivore" diet trends; but even he can smell the BS: The Game Changers Review - A Scientific Analysis | Biolayne

I won't get too deep since I have a clear conflict of interest (2 year high-protein animal-sourced low carb diet) But I've seen the corporate push to feed the lower classes cheap processed and profitable plant foods for awhile now. Considering the irreparable damage and millions of lives lost just with the "fat demonization"movement of Ancel Keys in the 70s with MILLIONS dead of preventable heart attacks/strokes/cancers, I only see tens of millions of more dead, sickly, and dying if we let our steak savoring billionaires dictate that we eat solely soy protein and insects for years to come. They want you to live like an animal. Choose to be a human.

 

[James Klymus]

You may “feel” better at first (usually placebo or just change in general), but after a while the lack is certain vitamins and nutrients takes it’s toll.

You know why they feel better? Because they stop eating cereal and a bagel with cream cheese for breakfast. A sandwich, chips and a coke for lunch, and pasta with meatballs for dinner, with sugary snacks and drinks in between all day.

In other words, they stop putting processed garbage in their body all day every day, and start eating healthier foods. Of course you'd feel better. You'd feel better if you ate healthier and still consumed some meat.

Another thing people report is weight loss. And if you're eating the garbage I talked about above, of course you'll lose weight. Things that taste good are usually high in calories. People eat 3-4,000 calories a day and not even know it.

Vegetables are super low in calories, so people unknowingly put them selves in a calorie deficit, then think that a miracle happened when they cut 10lbs.

Human nutrition professor loses 10 pounds in two weeks on snack cake diet

Human nutrition professor loses 10 pounds in two weeks on snack cake diet

www.k-state.edu

This is an extreme and silly example ^ But weight loss comes down to being in a calorie deficit, not eating plants.

I think this thread has gotten a bit off topic though haha.

 

[Grinder20]

@Primeperiwinkle, this is very interesting. Great, one more reason I get to hear a vegan tell me how better their life is ("Fat is Flavor")....lol! I believe dairy definitely messes people up...but you have my attention when you talk about athletic performance/recovery . More and more athletes are becoming vegan, which to me is absolutely crazy. If you've ever tried it...you may feel better, but for me I was constantly hungry, light headed, and forget about lifting!

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

THIS is why I tell every friend I have whenever I get super excited about a thing because I really do get swept up and will be all in 100% without thinking and the next thing you know I threw my bacon away.

 

[Champion]

Idk haha, speaking from experience:

The advantage I see in plant protein (for example rice protein powder vs whey protein) is that it doesnt F*ck up my stomach.

With whey protein, If I take more than 1 scoop every 2 days, I am sure to have issues.

With the rice protein, its no problems, I can take 1-2 scoops a day, easily without issues.

The biggest drawback is that rice protein tastes like shit! I usually mix it with peanut butter and a banana, that makes it alright to swallow.

Best
Champion

 

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[broswoodwork]

On a lighter note...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

My girlfriend watches that guy. F*cking hilarious. I can't tell how many layers of ironic he's actually operating on.

Edit: I guess she's my wife now... Still feels weird to say.

 

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[Devilery]

Common side effects of veganism are: accelerated aging, cavities, rotten teeth, depression, anxiety, acne, digestion issues, "skinny-fat" build, lack of libido, irritability, loss of muscle, lack of energy, brain fog and hair loss among females.

I tried to avoid topics about vegan diet, but damn, where did you get all this information from?
I've been vegan for 2 years. Yeah, not that long, but enough to tell a difference. Guess what?
I'm looking, feeling and performing better than ever. Could I have progressed the same on any other diet? Probably. But I just can't let you leave such a crap here.

You mentioned a looot of side-efects, but zero sources? How come?
I won't deny that vegans can experience them. Yet these are very common issues for all types of diets.

Here's my experience: I have gained 15 pounds of mostly lean weight in past 10 months and pretty much doubled all my compound lifts. I do endurance sports - swimming, running, cycling. I'm bigger, stronger, hornier and more motivated than ever before.

Of course, it takes time until you fully adjust to vegan diet. It DOES take research and then putting the acquired knowledge in practice.

Here's the thing about deficiencies. Most of what you mentioned actually can be found in plant sources, but few of them (b12, creatine, carnitine, carnisine, cla can't). I do take supplements, quite a lot actually. Mainly due exercising 6 times a week (even more in the summer), but also because I'm vegan. Honestly, I don't see such a big deal because I rather take few supplements instead of contributing to the barbaric animal farming industry AND damaging my health.

Yes! It does take effort. Yes! It does complicate several aspects of life. And I honestly don't even care what you eat, but please, if you do make such a serious claims - back them up. Thank you!

 

[kkoasdfawfqwe2]

Look at the trio of production, its a James Cameron movie. That to me screams ENTERTAINMENT rather than something for educational purposes.

The movie concludes that certain athletes beat previous records in their sports by being vegan, which is a weird conclusion to draw. What about all the other thousands of athletes who beat records and did amazing things while not being vegan?

It felt like watching a Youtube conspiracy video tbh.

 

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[Grinder20]

The whole thing was kicked off by a client of mine who adores purple carrot delivery service. He wants me to hire his cook too.. which I really can’t afford but he sends me recipes from time to time. I think the main first step is just to get 5-6 meals that me and the kids really enjoy.. it shouldn’t be too hard. We love Thai food and I’ve already tricked them into vegan burgers before... it’s not going to all be accomplished in a day.

I really think soy is very bad though, at least the way it’s grown or processed for Americans. My little guy is allergic to that. I have experience with weird diets cuz we’re gluten free, dairy free.. mostly Paleo. But the energy thing.. I’ve been trying to figure that out for myself off and on for years. It’s my own fault. I’m not consistent with diet or sleep. It’s just catching up to me the older I get.

Anyhoo.. I really appreciate the convo and encouragement. Thank you.

I agree with you with the no gluten, diary, and processed foods. I can't give up beer or carbs, so hats off to you. The energy thing I am convinced is all about a consistent workout schedule and proper sleep, which isn't always possible, but definitely necessary. I struggle with sleep too, which is related to stress. No surprise there! Best of luck to you!

 

[Here]

I remember reading that anyone who goes vegan should take collagen supplements. Otherwise your skin, joints etc are deprived.
I’m actually practicing keto with carb ups at night. I’m the farthest thing from athletic and my health is way better since starting.