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MHP368

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So "official" launch was today although i've been dripping things in over the last week.

Sort of hard to explain (still trying to nail my elevator pitch) but i'll try. I've become a re-seller for a firm that does identity resolution, essentially we can track all the URL level activity a person does online going back about 4 months (they purchased the data on about 250 million US citizens and then fed it to a machine learning algorithm to resolve the identities)

More of a "great money" via someone elses coat tails thing than legendary money but I feel IOT is going to make a lot of people very rich in the coming decade.

Anyway what you do with that is, you pick any end result where the persons buying journey would be an online thing, say you sell 2018 honda accords, you feed the machine learning software 100 or 1000 or however many names of people who purchased that car in a certain geographic region, then it goes back through and looks for correlates. Say 80% of people who bought that car went o a certain mountaineering website 3 months ago and then of that 80% 65% all went to the same blog within the last month, why? who cares - its a data correlate.

So now we have some semblance of an idea about the path to purchase and we can do retargeted ads along that journey, the thing is though, since I actually know what behaviors i'm looking for, and I have the resolved identity of basically every american adult I can retarget them across any platform (i'm not beholden to facebook or google or linked or tiwtter, or a phone call or email...I can hit them anyway I want, the datas permanent and portable (unlike cookies that expire) . Part of the identity resolution is that we know the Ip of the persons desktop, laptop, cell phone. The main email and accesory emails (about 4 per person) it goes on an on.

The applications are obviously pretty much endless , right now i'm focusing on personal injury law (with a few forays into mortgage brokers and some attempted contacts with larger commercial real estate folks) . I can hire out the actual "use" of the data to another firm and just focus on client growth , you get a lot cheaper CPC when you tell an ad network you want to target "jan" or "bob" or "someone who behaves exactly like jan or bob" rather than targeting demographically and the fact that you can begin targeted ads so early in the journey (in some cases before the client has even consciously decided they actually are in the market for a product) you get much better close rates (in theory) . Targeting the, small % of people currently in the market for a good or service instead of anyone with a heartbeat.

I figure B2C is the simplest way to get some wins under my belt and then I can go for B2B or big fish (such as the large commercial real estate I mentioned, actually its mobile home park investors i'm targeting).

Sell a million people something for 5 dollars or one person one thing for 5 million right?

Anyway , I have a semi automated linkedin system lined up (getting 3 different calendar apps to play nice wasn't fun) but it looks like a steady diet of the dreaded "cold call" is in my future as well, I sort of don't know how many clients I actually need to be financially independent yet. People aren't exactly screaming into bullhorns what their closing rate is on clients and how much it currently costs them to acquire a lead (if they even know), one site said 200-400 for an exclusive lead is within reason (I would need...6-12 clients at those prices to be free) but i'm gonna start myself at a much smaller margin and make sure i'm not just whistling dixie (the easiest person to lie to is yourself)
 

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Andy Black

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Do you have any data privacy concerns?

I’m curious if businesses worry about GDPR etc in the US.
 
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MHP368

MHP368

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Do you have any data privacy concerns?

I’m curious if businesses worry about GDPR etc in the US.
Excellent questions (thats sounds hammy but they are)

So the data before I see it is encrypted and when I get it its a hash file , sha-256 and unencrypted its just the details that would be relevant for marketing (name, address, phone, emails etc - the machine does the leg work and spits out the people who are in market for whatever product or service)

Its my understanding that on the backend its kept pretty well under lock and key as well , an example would be when you go to the hospital, any doctor or nurse has access to your file with all of your private health information but its federally illegal (well in the US, not sure about the NHS Andy) for them to look at it if they aren't caring for you. this is being monitored in house to ensure compliance and everywhere i've worked one goof up and your'e fired (and possibly facing legal issues and a crippling fine) . The machine learning program has access, other than that I believe only the company owners would be able to see it.

part of my reseller contract was "if you use this data inappropriately , no warnings, you are out"

It is a bit "big brother" though admittedly, however the number of internet enabled devices is growing exponentially, every one of those has however many sensors that are possible data points and frankly i'm all in, this is the future of marketing.

GDPR passing in the US would put me out of business overnight, without having to go into a shpiel, its just never going to happen given americas new political norms of absolute polarization. One side is rolling back consumer protections and EPA standards from 40 years ago and if the other side ever had power again they'd have limited political capital and they'd have to deploy it in numerous other venues before coming around to this.

our federal government can barely pass its own budget , i'm not worried about federal level action on data privacy , thats not cynicism, thats realism. State level? sure , for b2c concerns however i'm running campaigns in a 50 to 70 mile radius. California has extra layers of protection for instance and workarounds exist (meaning its slightly more difficult / costly to run things in that state but most of the hurdles are having extra layers of consent along the way and opt outs)
 

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I`m all for making it easier for people to get/buy what they want.
The easier, the better.
However, I predict a couple of pitfalls you might fall into:

1. You say "they purchased the data on about 250 million US citizens"
Will they purchase data on a regular basis?
What if the data is incorrect, how do you verify this?

2. Everybody "eats".
I understand the concept, but how do you know that a person goes through a certain set of steps to make a descision to buy?
You dont know what the proccess of each person is.
What I`m trying to say is everybody "eats", but do we all "eat" at mexican restaraunt for example?

3. GDPR should be a major concern here like @Andy Black mentioned.
You need to have a way for people to delete their data from your system.
If enough people do this, how will the business survive?
 
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MHP368

MHP368

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Will they purchase data on a regular basis?
What if the data is incorrect, how do you verify this?
It is updated yes , something like 60 billion data points fed into the system daily.

The act of identity resolution is the checking , for instance what email do you use when you make a purchase for a subscription? Your primary? , Ok , now what devices access the internet with your primary email logged in? Is it your grandmothers laptop or yours? Yours kid phone or yours?

Name phone and residency are easy because theyre all over public records but once youve purchased ip info from the big players and run it against the other stuff you have you can whittle things down and get a pretty good picture of URL level activity.

Everybody "eats".
Ha! Yes , correlation is not causation , however we do constantly update using closed loop analysis the buyer profile and path to purchase. If one group of people one quarter of the year shows two strong correlates with internet activity leading up to a purchase that could be wishful thinking , reading into a chance occurrence. If the correlate holds over time however , well , somethings going on. Better to chance it with what the data says then rely on a demographic shotgun strategy.

If you see enough smoke then a fire exists , even if were having trouble making the logical connection on how that fire started.

You need to have a way for people to delete their data from your system.
Its on the privacy policy of my site and any site using one of my "pixels" , however thats not the in market end , the pixel just allows me to turn an anonymous visitor into a name with contact info.

Right now if you want facebook to delete your stuff what steps do you take? What about for google? Microsoft?

The database is just bits of info purchased on the open market and then run through a machine learning algorithm for identity resolution. Scrape yourself from the internet and its bad data.

Again , i'm not at all worried. Edward snowden fled to the country to warn the americans populace that the government three letter agencies had too much information and were abusing it...how many years ago? And people still don't in general use vpn's and browsers that hide them and search engines that dont track them.

You see monthly data breaches and stories about facebook dropping the ball and just being awful. No action.

If overt abuse on the governments end and total mismanagement by the likes of facebook and equifax doesn't convince people , nothing short of a huge privacy cultural shift will.

People dont care , they want the newest iphone and they want their AC to run and the food they like to eat to br at the store. They literally don't care about this stuff and they prove it day in and day out on all the major platforms.

Now I take stewardship of the data (encrypted mind you) very seriously and so does the company I resell it for. Apparently more serious than a certain major creeit reporting agency did , anyone concerned about online data hygiene is free to put up defenses and i'll be sad to not be able to retarget you with behaviorally driven ads but , I just don't see mass adoption that would effect the business model.

A US GDPR would require both sides of the political spectrum to come together against the interests of the big data lobbyists who paid to get them elected. Again , I don't want to get into political shenanigans on MJ's forum but , you really think thats gonna happen here? , We had a government shutdown over the funding for a border wall in a world where tunnels and ladders exist and you think something as practical as a federal data privacy mandate is going to win bipartisan support?
 

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Excellent questions (thats sounds hammy but they are)

So the data before I see it is encrypted and when I get it its a hash file , sha-256 and unencrypted its just the details that would be relevant for marketing (name, address, phone, emails etc - the machine does the leg work and spits out the people who are in market for whatever product or service)

Its my understanding that on the backend its kept pretty well under lock and key as well , an example would be when you go to the hospital, any doctor or nurse has access to your file with all of your private health information but its federally illegal (well in the US, not sure about the NHS Andy) for them to look at it if they aren't caring for you. this is being monitored in house to ensure compliance and everywhere i've worked one goof up and your'e fired (and possibly facing legal issues and a crippling fine) . The machine learning program has access, other than that I believe only the company owners would be able to see it.

part of my reseller contract was "if you use this data inappropriately , no warnings, you are out"

It is a bit "big brother" though admittedly, however the number of internet enabled devices is growing exponentially, every one of those has however many sensors that are possible data points and frankly i'm all in, this is the future of marketing.

GDPR passing in the US would put me out of business overnight, without having to go into a shpiel, its just never going to happen given americas new political norms of absolute polarization. One side is rolling back consumer protections and EPA standards from 40 years ago and if the other side ever had power again they'd have limited political capital and they'd have to deploy it in numerous other venues before coming around to this.

our federal government can barely pass its own budget , i'm not worried about federal level action on data privacy , thats not cynicism, thats realism. State level? sure , for b2c concerns however i'm running campaigns in a 50 to 70 mile radius. California has extra layers of protection for instance and workarounds exist (meaning its slightly more difficult / costly to run things in that state but most of the hurdles are having extra layers of consent along the way and opt outs)
Cool. Looks like you’re on the ball.

Do the people who’s details have been purchased consent to being marketed to. Does it matter in the US?
 
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MHP368

MHP368

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Do the people who’s details have been purchased consent to being marketed to. Does it matter in the US?
No and no. So , heres a common occurrence for a US citizen right now , you search for a mattress or a baby carriage or a suit...and for the next few months you see related ads (in some cases people report they see ads for things they were simply discussing near a smartphone although everyone denies they listen to audio other than amazon alexa et al) . Now the ads might not populate cross platform as this is "dumb" tracking , its just a normal cookie, the ads also continue even if you made the purchase , because the cookie doesnt know.

From the standpoint of a consumer it would look similar except that the ads stop pnce you've engaged with my client (as I know you either purchased or said no) and the ads are targeted better (if you set off the system by taking an early path to purchase action , im not going for the sale , the ads will try to get you to say...an informational landing page) , the last difference is that of course the algo might tag you as someone we need to run ads to even before you've consciously decided that you're interested in a product or service.

As far as opt out , im using the data to run ads on existing networks , so the big players (such as google and facebook) already have a simple way to say "stop it with this ad" , the only way to opt out of the entire system is to take steps to prevent your data from being available , the existing id resolution data will become unusable (as you move , upgrade phones etc or simply block the ability to be shown ads etc)
 

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GDPR passing in the US would put me out of business overnight, without having to go into a shpiel, its just never going to happen given americas new political norms of absolute polarization.
Be very careful, there is already the CCPA (California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA)) and if you happen to get any data from someone in that state, and you do any business in that state, then the law potentially applies. Other states will eventually jump on this bandwagon because there is no downside for the state legislature to do so.
 
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MHP368

MHP368

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Ok! , actual execution update (these wont be daily or nearly this detailed but I am tracking all this)

So , my linkedin now "company profile" has visited 465 profiles, I've sent 198 connection requests in the last two days, I've had 33 profile views (can't tell how many are just view backs vs people scoping me after the connection request)

15 accepted connections in that time. Started personalized convos with each of them (the connections request is generic copy but, that seems lazy to do once they accepted)

of those 15 convos one person wrote back to say he would "keep me in mind if his marketing needs changed"

so we'll pause here for a moment to back out of the metrics.

The goal at this point is to get an "exploratory call" , to that end everything on the profile is sort of "buzzy" (although if you read the above you can see how this isn't real easy to dumb down all that far) , I have a little 56 second commercial video made up (got a voice actor whos done purina commercials! ooh lala)

link to the site and of course my "calendly" link (so they can signup for the exploratory call) , thats linked in with zoom. I have that set up so that the call says "15 minute" but the calendar blocks out about an hour and 15.

I'm trained in selling via the sandler method so initially I'd want to be qualifying and having the dialogue be essentially 100% about the struggles they have with gaining clients / profit. Need them emotionally invested and all that.

Boot strapping things as well so the sites not...really where I want it to be, profits from the first sale will go to that I think. Its not scary bad but it could be a lot sleaker.

____________________________________________________________________

Now, you know what I really wanted to do today? probably around noonish or 1pm? take a nice fat nap with my 4 year old. Those are always solid naps. You know what absolutely 100% of the time doesn't move you closer to your business goals? (in my experience, YMMV), NAPPING!

So I just did some cold calls. Now, i'm a psych nurse by trade so, getting yelled at by strangers? literally my bread and butter. Still doesn't make cold calling unpleasant.

10 calls, i'm tracking who to call back as well but thats a boring metric, I had two secretary / paralegals tell me to "email something over", which pretty much means its going to go into some email trash bin (the same as the physical messages I left will go into the trash) , of note though, one lady was pleasant and says she does the marketing , one lady was rather nasty (and I think lying to me that she handles the marketing to play defense, which is her job though), gonna have to put my social engineering hat on for the next round of cold calls and see if I cant break that secretary defense better.

Have a few hail mary leads i'm gonna followup with this afternoon as well.
 

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Ok! , actual execution update (these wont be daily or nearly this detailed but I am tracking all this)

So , my linkedin now "company profile" has visited 465 profiles, I've sent 198 connection requests in the last two days, I've had 33 profile views (can't tell how many are just view backs vs people scoping me after the connection request)

15 accepted connections in that time. Started personalized convos with each of them (the connections request is generic copy but, that seems lazy to do once they accepted)

of those 15 convos one person wrote back to say he would "keep me in mind if his marketing needs changed"

so we'll pause here for a moment to back out of the metrics.

The goal at this point is to get an "exploratory call" , to that end everything on the profile is sort of "buzzy" (although if you read the above you can see how this isn't real easy to dumb down all that far) , I have a little 56 second commercial video made up (got a voice actor whos done purina commercials! ooh lala)

link to the site and of course my "calendly" link (so they can signup for the exploratory call) , thats linked in with zoom. I have that set up so that the call says "15 minute" but the calendar blocks out about an hour and 15.
As a data point, if you're interested.
We tried cold outreach via Linkedin about a year ago. Blasted out invites based on filters with a connection request message. Ran some messaging after connection was accepted (not personalized though).
Got zero business. We sent out thousands of requests in that time.

It may have been our messaging, but I'm seeing more and more people on Linkedin complain in general about the "connect and schedule a call' method.

Fingers crossed you get some good leads, but just be aware it's pretty much a platform full of cold sales messages at this point (I get 1-2 requests a day for people who "connect accountants to their ideal clients").
 
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MHP368

MHP368

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It may have been our messaging, but I'm seeing more and more people on Linkedin complain in general about the "connect and schedule a call' method.
Yeh I might be a few years late to the party , whats worked for you?
 

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Yeh I might be a few years late to the party , whats worked for you?
Honestly? Word of mouth/referrals.

Probably less powerful for you. If your marketing does what you say it does, people are going to hoard the info instead of telling all their friends.
 
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Cost to run a campaign?
A bit over 600 dollars for a 50 to 70 mile radius on one vertical. About twice that for statewide. National is case by case , im outsourcing the actual ad creation and execution / followup drip campaign etc to a white label agency though so thats another 700 a month for me. Then you tack on adspend.

That of course also doesn't include my monthly fixed costs. Some of these verticals are burning money using a shotgun strategy but , I gotta find that first client willing to chance it on my new fangled craziness before its anywhere near an easy sell.
 

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Anyway what you do with that is, you pick any end result where the persons buying journey would be an online thing
If the purchase is indeed an online one, then how do you market for personal injury? Or are we tracking forms fill outs or something like that? Have access to call tracking data?

So many questions...

They have an entire pdf dedicated to california compliance in the training when I got the reseller licence.
Not for nothing, but that is the kind of answer mlmers and Bitcoin scammers give when they haven't admitted to themselves they are mlmers or Bitcoin scammers.

I'm sorry to lump you in this category, because what little I've read of your commentary on the forum you've struck me as an thoughtful and intelligent person.

Do you have a better answer than I read a PDF in training class?
 
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MHP368

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If the purchase is indeed an online one, then how do you market for personal injury? Or are we tracking forms fill outs or something like that? Have access to call tracking data?

So many questions...
Good question, I just asked support. I know i'm feeding it whatever existing data is in the clients CRM and they have data from the other resellers in similar verticals as a baseline at least.

It wouldn't make sense that they're actually tracking everyone they have data resolution on 24/7 , I think you have to "zoom in" on someone before accessing it (so no way its tracking every bank account transfer to and from every lawyer in the country or something like that)
Do you have a better answer than I read a PDF in training class?
Well not really? as I don't live in california so I had no intentions on even bothering myself with it. So I never even opend the file but heres some choice pieces (the compliance section from wiki is the same)...

Do you do business or have customers (or potential customers) in California? If you answered yes to this question, and you meet one of the following criteria, your company must conform to CCPA regulations:

  • Your annual gross revenue is more than $25 million.
  • Your organization receives, shares, or sells personal information of more than 50,000 individuals.
  • Your company earns 50% or more of its annual revenue from selling personal information of consumers.
*so no to the first and technically no to the second (as i'm a reseller, so until I hit that threshold personally I should be good) , affirmative on point 3

So then compliance seems to just mean making it real clear and easy for people to opt out.

But then they still seem to be muddling through the difference between "publicy available information" and "private information" and of course where data that was provided by a consumer and data that was purchased by or acquired by a third party fits into things.

Key on that last part is the, essence I want to say? of the law would definitely seem to be saying that someone should have "data rights" so even if it was pre-existing third party collected data some remedy for expungement should exist. Still seems obscure on finer points though (pending clarifications)

I think wired did a great take on it

So now that i'm halfway informed my initial reaction of "don't do business in California' seems spot on. I maintain that I don't think this country has the public drive or political inclination to nationally enforce anything like this and states will wait to see if its a drag on california resources not worth the tradeoff before acting.

While all thats being bandied about and debated, I'll be over here making my FU money.
 
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So many questions...
Think I just needed to sleep on that (lots of moving parts so to speak , I had to make my own presentation slides for all this)

Ok so , I can sell 2 things. The targeted marketing campaigns based on the data or the site pixel by itself (anyone doing a campaign gets a pixel for the companies main website)

A pixels not a new concept. Except my pixel deterministically resolves the identity of a site visitor more than half the time , no more anonymous bounces or half filled contact forms. We know its trevor and we have all his contact info , you can text him now or email him or snail mail home or send him banner ads or twitter ads...

Because the transactions online right? And the path to purchase involved lots of online activity.

Ok so how do we build out the behavioral profile? I sign a client and as stated above they can and should feed me info from the crm. But they also get the pixel and load it on the site , so now they just have to tell me "yeh vicky purchased , and stand and Lisa and that guy henry..." And now I just feed that back into the algorithm and it goes back through URL level web activity on all those recent purchases and finds the correlates to buildout the profile of "the path to purchase for abc in the xyz area"
 
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Ok,

So full website rebuild this week, switching domains as well so sites down right now.

Hired a lawyer to turn my boilerplate service contract into something legititimate, expecting that by weeks end.

Spent today futzing with copywriting and getting the e-mail campaign live, which was...much more involved than I'd thought.
 

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Just a technical curiosity - does advertiser need to set the tracking pixel first in order to show ads later or can he just point what vertical he wants to advertise to?
 

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Cost to run a campaign?
Let's start over. Your last answer had my head spinning and didn't include stuff so I didn't get actually an answer. I'll rephrase

What is the minimum cost for someone to test this out?

Also, I'm wondering if you have experience selling a product like this.
 
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does advertiser need to set the tracking pixel first in order to show ads later or can he just point what vertical he wants to advertise to?
If the buyer journey happens online you can just point at the vertical, although, for untested verticals i'd hesitate to advertise on every possible channel.

The Pixel that you get with a campaign I run is for the homepage to resolve the identities of site visitors for retargeting, we can begin finding campaign targets separately without any data from that pixel (it just helps, and can be used as a standalone product)
 
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What is the minimum cost for someone to test this out?

Also, I'm wondering if you have experience selling a product like this.
No experience running something like this.

So the cost on my end is about 600 dollars per campaign + ad spend + whatever it costs for copy-writing and actually building and deploying the ads etc , that would be one 70 mile radius, an entire state about 1300 dollars plus the ad costs.

thats for b2c campaigns, the company has since rebranded and moved the focus completely to b2b applications.

I'm outsourcing the actual creation and deployment of the ads.
 

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No experience running something like this.

So the cost on my end is about 600 dollars per campaign + ad spend + whatever it costs for copy-writing and actually building and deploying the ads etc , that would be one 70 mile radius, an entire state about 1300 dollars plus the ad costs.

thats for b2c campaigns, the company has since rebranded and moved the focus completely to b2b applications.

I'm outsourcing the actual creation and deployment of the ads.
Figuratively killing me. I still don't have an answer. I am looking for a simple number with a dollars sign and 4 digits.

Can you make it any harder for me to do business with you? Under normal circumstances I'd just bounce. This isn't worth my time.

But we're on TFLF, so hopefully this rant will help you. Let me spell this out for you.

I run an agency.

In Arizona no less.

I told you I'm fascinating by this stuff. I didn't tell you why. (Maybe revisit that Sandler training?)

Those target markets you mentioned earlier? I have clients in all those.

I have clients in other niches you didn't mention but probably should have.

Some of my clients love this kind of "fancy new toy" digital marketing stuff. I don't want to learn it or do it.

I am asking for your pricing. Not your costs.

Get it?

I keep asking what it will cost your client. You keep talking about what it will cost you.

If you can't answer a simple question, like what is the minimum you are going to charge a client, then what have you been doing with your time? Working on your sales pitch? (Still needs work) Searching for prospects?

I gotta find that first client willing to chance it on my new fangled craziness before its anywhere near an easy sell.
31012

Action faking is a term that is thrown around a lot on here. You have an interested person. Close them.

For the record, this is the kind of product that is sold because you are the smartest guy in the room. You have to project smartest guy in the room vibes. I know, I've been in those rooms. I can give you the step by step sales process you need. The process isn't actually all that hard. It'll take 2 meetings, not one. You'll probably need to redo your powerpoints...

But if you keep stumbling over basic questions, like minimum cost, this won't close. The step by step roadmap won't help you because you don't know your product or offer well enough yet.

Also, given that I'm thinking about putting you in those rooms, go back and look how cringey some of your responses have been.

I asked if you have a better answer than "I read a PDF". You admitted you didn't read it.

Literally a worse answer.

Making a joke about how it doesn't matter and you'll be getting FU money? The WORST answer.

Selfish, and it kills the smartest guy in the room vibe.

It shows once again you aren't thinking of this from the client's perspective. It appears you only see you the "FU money" at the end of the rainbow. And that's where it will stay if you don't focus on what you need to focus on.

Know your customer. Your AZ based targets all get web traffic from California. So you can be smug about how new laws don't impact you, but you makes jokes in the room when a potential client asks and the meeting will end pretty quick.

Let's get moving on polishing up this sales pitch, shall we?

One last thing. Stop talking about what "the company" did or will do. You want to build an unusual marketing agency? Start talking like you own an unusual marketing agency, not like you are a reseller of some other not so unusual agency's product. Know your customer. Know your process. Know your offer.

Know what marketing problem you are trying to fix, who you can help, and how much you will charge for this.

A few people have told me "rebuke in private". But if I did that here, others wouldn't learn either. And this is TFLF, where we mastermind together to learn and grow, right? So hopefully you don't take any of this personally, because I'm trying to have a business conversation here.

I'll rephrase this question one last time...

What is the minimum someone can pay to test out this "unusual" offering of yours?
 
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I keep asking what it will cost your client. You keep talking about what it will cost you.

If you can't answer a simple question, like what is the minimum you are going to charge a client, then what have you been doing with your time? Working on your sales pitch? (Still needs work) Searching for prospects?
Oh, 5 grand a month.
I asked if you have a better answer than "I read a PDF". You admitted you didn't read it.

Literally a worse answer.
No, I explained I don't take clients from california.
Your AZ based targets all get web traffic from California.
Which is why the privacy policy on the site will be compliant with californias laws, even including a specific extra bit about my site pixel specifically.
A few people have told me "rebuke in private".
Nah this is the fastlane forum, rebuke in public and pillory the MLM fiends. Constructive criticism? destructive criticism? , i'm all ears.

you're first comment was "I wish you luck with this venture. I'm fascinated by this kind of marketing. " , so I took all your followup questions as "I, a fellow entrepreneur in a related field am simply geeking out on this thing you've presented" , psychological priming and all that.
 

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you're first comment was "I wish you luck with this venture. I'm fascinated by this kind of marketing. " , so I took all your followup questions as "I, a fellow entrepreneur in a related field am simply geeking out on this thing you've presented" , psychological priming and all that.
Yup, did that on purpose. I didn't perk up until you mentioned the niches.

No, I explained I don't take clients from california.
Again, this conversation isn't about you. Your clients will. You need a better answer. They aren't going to reject all Cali IP addresses...

Oh, 5 grand a month.
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Is there a minimum term?
 
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Figuratively killing me. I still don't have an answer. I am looking for a simple number with a dollars sign and 4 digits.

Can you make it any harder for me to do business with you? Under normal circumstances I'd just bounce. This isn't worth my time.

But we're on TFLF, so hopefully this rant will help you. Let me spell this out for you.

I run an agency.

In Arizona no less.

I told you I'm fascinating by this stuff. I didn't tell you why. (Maybe revisit that Sandler training?)

Those target markets you mentioned earlier? I have clients in all those.

I have clients in other niches you didn't mention but probably should have.

Some of my clients love this kind of "fancy new toy" digital marketing stuff. I don't want to learn it or do it.

I am asking for your pricing. Not your costs.

Get it?

I keep asking what it will cost your client. You keep talking about what it will cost you.

If you can't answer a simple question, like what is the minimum you are going to charge a client, then what have you been doing with your time? Working on your sales pitch? (Still needs work) Searching for prospects?



View attachment 31012

Action faking is a term that is thrown around a lot on here. You have an interested person. Close them.

For the record, this is the kind of product that is sold because you are the smartest guy in the room. You have to project smartest guy in the room vibes. I know, I've been in those rooms. I can give you the step by step sales process you need. The process isn't actually all that hard. It'll take 2 meetings, not one. You'll probably need to redo your powerpoints...

But if you keep stumbling over basic questions, like minimum cost, this won't close. The step by step roadmap won't help you because you don't know your product or offer well enough yet.

Also, given that I'm thinking about putting you in those rooms, go back and look how cringey some of your responses have been.

I asked if you have a better answer than "I read a PDF". You admitted you didn't read it.

Literally a worse answer.

Making a joke about how it doesn't matter and you'll be getting FU money? The WORST answer.

Selfish, and it kills the smartest guy in the room vibe.

It shows once again you aren't thinking of this from the client's perspective. It appears you only see you the "FU money" at the end of the rainbow. And that's where it will stay if you don't focus on what you need to focus on.

Know your customer. Your AZ based targets all get web traffic from California. So you can be smug about how new laws don't impact you, but you makes jokes in the room when a potential client asks and the meeting will end pretty quick.

Let's get moving on polishing up this sales pitch, shall we?

One last thing. Stop talking about what "the company" did or will do. You want to build an unusual marketing agency? Start talking like you own an unusual marketing agency, not like you are a reseller of some other not so unusual agency's product. Know your customer. Know your process. Know your offer.

Know what marketing problem you are trying to fix, who you can help, and how much you will charge for this.

A few people have told me "rebuke in private". But if I did that here, others wouldn't learn either. And this is TFLF, where we mastermind together to learn and grow, right? So hopefully you don't take any of this personally, because I'm trying to have a business conversation here.

I'll rephrase this question one last time...

What is the minimum someone can pay to test out this "unusual" offering of yours?
Guys, this post is golden.

Kindly thank you @BizyDad for posting it.
 

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