My opinion of the Amazon Marketplace

[biophase]

It's no secret that Amazon's FBA marketplace has changed dramatically in this year. One of the reasons that I've decided not to do my coaching again in 2019 is because I feel that it is very hard to get a new product launched now, solely on Amazon. I feel that the strategy for launching has changed and now requires a more complex approach.

Just as an example, one my clients from Jan 2018 picked a niche within a niche. We are talking something that was very targeted. Think something like wallets made from ostrich feathers. When we looked at the niche, there were 3 competitors in Feb 2018. Now there are at least 6. This niche is so small, that a paranoid person would think that either I or my client told people about this niche in February. How else do 3 competitors show up in something so unusual? My answer is, it's because everyone is in Amazon and trying to do the same thing that you are doing. If you are thinking about a fidget spinner made of knives, somebody else probably has the same idea.

So, what do you do now? Well, in my opinion, you can no longer launch a product on Amazon, you must launch a brand. You cannot think short term, you must think long term. You must have a much longer timeframe and a built out strategy that includes marketing outside of Amazon.

Gone are the days of a one product launch.

So this is how I plan to do my future launches. First, you still need to find a decent product. That's still a given. But if all you do is find a decent product, chances are, others have found the same one. So when you launch, you are a handful of others are in the same boat.

I'm going to use backpacks for the remainder of this post to illustrate my example. Let's say I'm selling a new school backpack. I make a slightly new design in black color with a brand name STRIDER.

When this goes live on Amazon, your backpack is going to be seen right along side a dozen other black school backpacks. Your backpack may be different and better, but how will people know it's cool features without clicking onto your listing?

First, your listing needs to be seen. This means PPC for the newly launched product.
Second, your listing needs to convert. This means getting reviews.

You will quickly find out how expensive PPC is and how difficult getting reviews are now.

In the old days, you toss up a PPC campaign and send out review emails. You could even decide to use a review group if you get desperate.

So here is how I would do it. First, I would launch multiple colors, I would do a black, blue, gray STRIDER backpack. I would give the backpack a name, like the STRIDER CLASSIC backpack.

Then I would launch a STRIDER TRAX messenger bag in blue, black & gray
Then I would launch a STRIDER LIFER shoulder sling in brown, gray & blue

Now I've got 3 products in a similar niche. I can create an IG and FB page for STRIDER BAGS. With 3 products in different colors, I can make decent content of people using my bags, put in some lifestyle posts.

I would create a Shopify store to sell the products. 3 products is probably enough to make a decent looking store.

I would drive traffic from IG, FB to either the store or Amazon. I'd run some Google PPC to the webstore and do some Amazon PPC.

If you look at the overall picture now, a new customer that stumbles upon Amazon, Shopify, IG or FB, would see a consistent brand. They'd see STRIDER as a new brand they just discovered that sells some pretty cool bags. Can you guys picture this in your head? Can you picture what the Shopify page would look like? The IG page with dozens of photos? The FB page with 1000 likes a photos? This is what I mean by launching a brand.

This new customer, if they like your stuff will probably go onto Amazon and search for it. They will type in STRIDER backpack and click and buy YOUR backpack. This is how you will get your sales and eventually reviews.

You envision the whole brand from the start and then execute it. It's very different than, junglescout says that the top seller of black backpacks is doing $150k a month. I can get one for $10 on Alibaba and sell it for $50. Now who wants to sell backpacks!!!

 

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[Vigilante]

I am framing out a brand launch right now, and I can't agree with your post any more than I do. This brand launch will be completely different than when I launched my last item-centric company. This new company will be built around technology that will be proprietary, and will be launched outside of Amazon. We will eventually put it on Amazon, but the company will be built as a brand solution to an emerging market need, and the company and brand will exist outside of Amazon. To ensure it will be self sustenant and adhere to the commandment of control, it will live outside of Amazon. It will not be an Amazon-centric business, and when we do launch on Amazon that will be just one channel of distribution, not the backbone of the business.

Amazon still generates nearly 1 of every 2 eCommerce sales, but for vendors to Amazon (or marketplace sellers on Amazon) that is coming at an increasingly insatiable cost of doing business in their sandbox. My new brand will start out at low velocity and high margin, and we'll be slow to migrate it into a high velocity low margin business.

This time, it will be more about building a brand presence than it will be a product/price business. We'll own the market as the mindshare experts in our space, the Google organic results will deliver to our site, the ad money we spend will be aimed at creating conversions within IP that we own and control, and ultimately the brand will be much more healthy as a result of being forced to be profitable from day one.

And to your point, the initial company/brand will launch with a dozen skus (and one main proprietary GO-TO item which will be the main product the brand is known for). We'll launch simultaneously on several venues from YouTube to Instagram, eBay (at full retail, for SEO social proof only), Facebook, and of course it's own website.

The business will have a high(er) barrier to entry, and ultimately in full manifestation will be a regulated business which creates the ultimate barrier to knockoff Alibaba jockeys. The more complex the business model, the less susceptible towards cheap imitation. First market movers advantage also makes it more difficult to catch the market leader. The brand and sub-brands will be trademarked from day one (registered) and will be eligible for brand registry when ever we decide the PITA of Amazon is a worthwhile trade for increased revenue.

Great comments, @biophase and reaffirming to me as we're in the throws of the first manufacturing orders right now. After the products arrive, we'll spend time on images, videos, and other consumer perception collateral. This not a game of "rush it out to Amazon" but it's much more complicated and thoughtful.

Marked notable, with thanks.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

As I said endlessly, Amazon is a channel, not a business.

People who launch products on Amazon purely for the sake of making money aren't entrepreneurs, they're arbitrageurs.

Entrepreneurs innovate and create, and a function of innovation and creation is branding.

When you create something, it is uniquely yours and can't be sourced on Alibaba so the latest bro-marketer can import it and compete with you in a matter of weeks.

 

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[amp0193]

I agree 100% with this.

One-product opportunities are becoming limited to products with very high barriers to entry. There is still some opportunity for "easy" launches on high-barrier products though, I think.

Rare or uncommon products, like an ostrich-feather wallet, may be hard to find, but probably not that high of a barrier, once you find it.

I launched a high-price, high-barrier product on Amazon last month. New Amazon account, don't have buy box yet, so can't run ads. Slowly selling some via organic search. My product has 0 competitors on Amazon, I am the only one. 99% of sales are through my website, so Amazon was an after thought. Just throw it up, have some website customers post some nice reviews, and let it sit, and it's working out.

Once I can run ads, I'll give it a try, but I'm not too worried about it. For this kind of product, people would probably rather buy on my website anyways.

 

[Longinus]

Can't agree more:

When I launched my first and only product 1.5 years back, I sold 20 pcs/month.

Now, with 10-something other products, I sell 80-90 pcs/month of the same product.

 

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[amp0193]

@Vigilante has this figured out.

I wonder if the new guys are paying attention?

@LittleJohn

 

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[biophase]

If I read the part above correctly, it's to launch several products together at once? If this is the case, how about inventory?

Let's say you launch 3 different types of backpacks under the same brand. Each of these 3 types of backpacks have 4 colors each, and each color has 15 pieces in stock.
That's 180 backpacks to keep in stock, and this is a conservative estimate since numbers can be higher.

What if all these doesn't sell?

In the case of launching a single product, if it flops, at least you don't have to keep so many of them in the warehouse (otherwise you will have to eat all these unsold backpacks)

This post came at just the right time as I'm going for the branding approach too, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the inventory issue. Especially for people starting up with much lesser cash flow, stocking too much qty of too many variations of products gives additional risks and problems.

What you said is true. Basically it will now cost a lot more to launch. But in my opinion, this lowers the risk. Again you need the right product.

Launching 15 different colored fidget spinners is better than one. Chances are better that a potential buyer will like one of your colors versus if you just launched a black version and your buyers wanted a red version they would go right past your listing. However, the potential success selling fidget spinners is probably very low.

You will definitely need more capital to launch now then before.

 

[biophase]

So the main point I'm confused about is, do I want to maximize added value at the cost of marketing strategy or maximize the marketing strat at the cost of adding substantial value?

In a perfect world, we could have both, but that's not how it works. At some point 1 of those 2 pieces will be more important than the other, and it seems like @biophase is saying the marketing end is overtaking the added value end. But maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

I’m saying you need both. You still should provide maximum improvement on a product. But just getting it seen on Amazon will be hard.

So let’s say you go ahead and improve this backpack. And all of the other backpacks are selling for $30 and you try to sell your super improved backpack for $60. That’s going to be a hard sell running just a PPC campaign on Amazon with no reviews and a new Amazon account.

I’m saying if Amazon PPC is the only way you are going to be driving traffic, you will 100% lose money.

In my original post example, i did not mean to infer that I’m just selling a private label backpack. What I would do is completely design my own bags with major improvements on all three of those bags.

Btw, It doesn’t cost anything to start a Facebook page or Instagram account, so those costs should not take away from your product value add budget.

 

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[biophase]

In my case I don't believe I have identified a target niche along with 5+ products I can improve or add value enough to accumulate money vouchers by creating my own brand..

So why do it? Why launch the product if it’s not leading to a brand?

Is it only for experience?

Let’s say it’s 100% successful. Then what’s your next step?

 

[AllenCrawley]

Ah, branding.

 

[biophase]

I want to mention a company that I think did it very well. Google Wooly Mammoth Blankets and look at their website, then look at their FB and IG and then google wool blanket on Amazon. Then do the exact same thing with EKTOS wool blanket.

Tell me what difference you see.

 

[biophase]

Low cost items with low barrier to entry have flooded Amazon. It's not uncommon to see Chinese factories competing directly on Amazon with dozens of listings for the same item under multiple brand names.

Not to mention Amazon competing. Amazon Basics is now all over my niche. They had their product at $5.99 vs my $14.99 one. But I'm still selling... guess why?

Branding

 

[Walter Hay]

This is what they should have told you on their podcast:

Alibaba offer two sources of credit for purchases on their platform:

PayLater is open line of credit finance up to $150,000 provided by Kabbage at a rate that starts at 15% p.a. To help attract careless buyers, they advertise it as "Fees starting at 1.25% per month. Maximum loan duration is 6 months, so theoretically the amount of interest you would pay for the duration of the loan works out at 7.5%.

It can only be used for minimum purchases of $5,000 and must be covered by Alibaba's Trade Assurance scheme. To learn how ineffective that "assurance" can actually be, either read my detailed 2 page explanation in sub-chapter 8.2 of my book, or you can read the 16 pages of Alibaba's rules and regulations plus the many other essential rules that can only be found in their help section.

e-Credit Line is another open line of credit finance up to $500,000. It is funded by Alibaba. Maximum loan duration is 12 months. The current interest rate they quote is: "From 0.87% per month," but if you do some searching you will find that it can be up to 1.3% per month. You will also pay an additional drawdown fee of 1.5% of the amount you borrow each time you use funds for purchases.

It is almost impossible to obtain credit terms from suppliers in China. I achieved the impossible when my suppliers agreed to allow me monthly terms, with no interest and no fees. That was a result of establishing strong relationships, built on their appreciation of my ethical standards, together with frequent visits. My franchisees automatically enjoyed that benefit, and I have since shown my book readers the key to getting such an account.

I never borrowed to operate my business. Growth was funded from my huge profit margins.

Walter

 

[Greg R]

I don't know how I just saw this thread.

To add on to the other 63 posts...

I've recently seen first hand, and can affirm pretty much everything in this thread.

Here are some other observations from my own experience.

Up until Q4, my website was my main source purchases. November came, and that completely did a 180 and flipped to Amazon. Before that I saw people go to my website first, and then buy from us on Amazon. Even though it is the same price, I think there is a trust factor so Amazon acts a another net to catch your customer. To add on to that, I now know where to allocate my advertising spending next year.

We recently did a new product launch on Amazon with some success. BUT it is unbelievably hard to get reviews organically. We are on the second page for our keyword (now) but the amount of reviews still lack. I have no doubt in my mind that if we can get more reviews, we would be on the first page.

Speaking of the new product, I launched it knowing that it would be a success on Amazon AND I also launched it knowing that it would be a success on other channels (such as subscription boxes, retail, and our website). I think the important point here is to make sure you manage your risk by making sure your new product can be a success across multiple channels.

A question to ask yourself:

Do you want to go big with a real business or do you want to have a hamster wheel lifestyle business?

You can tell me I'm wrong, but Ecommerce can be summed up to into one channel with multiple sub channels. Other major channels are alive and well. If your product is a success online, chances are you are missing a huge opportunity to get into other high volume channels. The type of channels where 1 hour of work can net you a huge sale.

A lot of people do not figure customer acquisition costs into the equation. Not only is Amazon PPC expensive, but it is expensive everywhere. This is even more of a reason to cast a wider net and allocate your ad spend across a calendar year wisely.

Finding creative ways to lower your cash outlay is also key to making the gears turn. One option for this is to plan a product line that uses similar materials. This makes it easier for your manufacturers to say yes to combining an entire product line into a one-product MOQ. Very recently, we have discovered a way to get big sales without investing in large MOQ orders. We are going to double down on this.

I guess my overall message here is that if your long term plan is to only be an ecom company, you are risking a ton of opportunity cost. People can dispute this all they want and say that "this doesn't apply to their business." This kind of small thinking is what will keep you small. JMTC.

 

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[Vigilante]

Low cost items with low barrier to entry have flooded Amazon. It's not uncommon to see Chinese factories competing directly on Amazon with dozens of listings for the same item under multiple brand names.

 

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[amp0193]

I have been trying to do this as of late, starting to ask myself whats the overarching purpose of my business and not just what products will do good. Tough question but comes with a rewarding answer.

It's fine to start with a product or two. But you have to have a long-term plan in mind.

If product #1 is successful, what's the next step?

Can you envision a company being created from this?

Think of Yeti. Didn't they just start with a cup? Where did they take themselves after that?

 

[biophase]

I don't mean that literally but a wallet is relatively easy to make.

Anybody can make wallets, purses, backpacks, etc... Anybody can use good quality materials... but why do some sell for $15 and some for $150?

How come if all the backpacks are priced at $35, people buy a certain one over others?

The difficulty of making a product isn't what sets it apart.

 

[biophase]

Thanks for your opinion of the current landscape. Do you recommend when looking to start a business to find a certain amount of products that can be improved/differentiated? If so whats a good number of products that can provide value that you would be comfortable with going forward in.

I think you have to decide what you want to do first. Stop thinking of your business as a product business and more as a business.

 

[biophase]

So... is using Amazon alone as a springboard to launch a brand a big no nowadays? (This is, or should I say, was my go-to plan).

Launch a product on Amazon, advertise on social media, add to your brand’s lineup, launch an eCommerce store and continue to grow in that manner…

What I’m getting from @biophase ‘s and @Vigilante ‘s posts is that the process now seems to be to launch the brand all at once instead of growing into one.

Launching on amazon still works if you can get PPC breakeven and social media to drive traffic. But seriously if you launch a PL product, what is going to compel people from social media to buy it?

 

[Xeon]

I would launch multiple colors, I would do a black, blue, gray STRIDER backpack. I would give the backpack a name, like the STRIDER CLASSIC backpack.
Then I would launch a STRIDER TRAX messenger bag in blue, black & gray
Then I would launch a STRIDER LIFER shoulder sling in brown, gray & blue

If I read the part above correctly, it's to launch several products together at once? If this is the case, how about inventory?

Let's say you launch 3 different types of backpacks under the same brand. Each of these 3 types of backpacks have 4 colors each, and each color has 15 pieces in stock.
That's 180 backpacks to keep in stock, and this is a conservative estimate since numbers can be higher.

What if all these doesn't sell?

In the case of launching a single product, if it flops, at least you don't have to keep so many of them in the warehouse (otherwise you will have to eat all these unsold backpacks)

This post came at just the right time as I'm going for the branding approach too, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the inventory issue. Especially for people starting up with much lesser cash flow, stocking too much qty of too many variations of products gives additional risks and problems.

 

[NaPal]

I want to mention a company that I think did it very well. Google Wooly Mammoth Blankets and look at their website, then look at their FB and IG and then google wool blanket on Amazon. Then do the exact same thing with EKTOS wool blanket.

Tell me what difference you see.

Wooly Mammoth Blankets are double the price as EKTOS wool blankets.
Wooly Mammoth Blankets has a compelling story and EKTOS not so much.
Wooly Mammoth has a brand whereas EKTOS has a 4 page website with 1 product.

 

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[biophase]

I would launch in March next year

 

[LittleJohn]

@Vigilante has this figured out.

I wonder if the new guys are paying attention?

@LittleJohn

Sure am. Each new piece of information pulls in a different direction.
In my case I don't believe I have identified a target niche along with 5+ products I can improve or add value enough to accumulate value vouchers by creating my own brand.

This is the goal.

For now I have 1 product sample in a niche that will be arriving in a few days.

You can learn from everything you do through the experience.

After reading MFL and 80% UNSCRIPTED my focus is on identifying the Need and finding a way to add value or create the solution/ improved product. Because the last 4 months I have been involved with Amazon w/retail arbitrage and now trying to get a product on the platform via PL my current 'bent' is toward creating a brand to launch on amazon..

 

[Guest58302]

So... is using Amazon alone as a springboard to launch a brand a big no nowadays? (This is, or should I say, was my go-to plan).

Launch a product on Amazon, advertise on social media, add to your brand’s lineup, launch an eCommerce store and continue to grow in that manner…

What I’m getting from @biophase ‘s and @Vigilante ‘s posts is that the process now seems to be to launch the brand all at once instead of growing into one.

 

[Tommo]

It's no secret that Amazon's FBA marketplace has changed dramatically in this year. One of the reasons that I've decided not to do my coaching again in 2019 is because I feel that it is very hard to get a new product launched now, solely on Amazon. I feel that the strategy for launching has changed and now requires a more complex approach.

Just as an example, one my clients from Jan 2018 picked a niche within a niche. We are talking something that was very targeted. Think something like wallets made from ostrich feathers. When we looked at the niche, there were 3 competitors in Feb 2018. Now there are at least 6. This niche is so small, that a paranoid person would think that either I or my client told people about this niche in February. How else do 3 competitors show up in something so unusual? My answer is, it's because everyone is in Amazon and trying to do the same thing that you are doing. If you are thinking about a fidget spinner made of knives, somebody else probably has the same idea.

So, what do you do now? Well, in my opinion, you can no longer launch a product on Amazon, you must launch a brand. You cannot think short term, you must think long term. You must have a much longer timeframe and a built out strategy that includes marketing outside of Amazon.

Gone are the days of a one product launch.

So this is how I plan to do my future launches. First, you still need to find a decent product. That's still a given. But if all you do is find a decent product, chances are, others have found the same one. So when you launch, you are a handful of others are in the same boat.

I'm going to use backpacks for the remainder of this post to illustrate my example. Let's say I'm selling a new school backpack. I make a slightly new design in black color with a brand name STRIDER.

When this goes live on Amazon, your backpack is going to be seen right along side a dozen other black school backpacks. Your backpack may be different and better, but how will people know it's cool features without clicking onto your listing?

First, your listing needs to be seen. This means PPC for the newly launched product.
Second, your listing needs to convert. This means getting reviews.

You will quickly find out how expensive PPC is and how difficult getting reviews are now.

In the old days, you toss up a PPC campaign and send out review emails. You could even decide to use a review group if you get desperate.

So here is how I would do it. First, I would launch multiple colors, I would do a black, blue, gray STRIDER backpack. I would give the backpack a name, like the STRIDER CLASSIC backpack.

Then I would launch a STRIDER TRAX messenger bag in blue, black & gray
Then I would launch a STRIDER LIFER shoulder sling in brown, gray & blue

Now I've got 3 products in a similar niche. I can create an IG and FB page for STRIDER BAGS. With 3 products in different colors, I can make decent content of people using my bags, put in some lifestyle posts.

I would create a Shopify store to sell the products. 3 products is probably enough to make a decent looking store.

I would drive traffic from IG, FB to either the store or Amazon. I'd run some Google PPC to the webstore and do some Amazon PPC.

If you look at the overall picture now, a new customer that stumbles upon Amazon, Shopify, IG or FB, would see a consistent brand. They'd see STRIDER as a new brand they just discovered that sells some pretty cool bags. Can you guys picture this in your head? Can you picture what the Shopify page would look like? The IG page with dozens of photos? The FB page with 1000 likes a photos? This is what I mean by launching a brand.

This new customer, if they like your stuff will probably go onto Amazon and search for it. They will type in STRIDER backpack and click and buy YOUR backpack. This is how you will get your sales and eventually reviews.

You envision the whole brand from the start and then execute it. It's very different than, junglescout says that the top seller of black backpacks is doing $150k a month. I can get one for $10 on Alibaba and sell it for $50. Now who wants to sell backpacks!!!

You never fail to blow my mind and open my eyes kid, kudos

 

[Redeye]

I don't think that value adding can ever be undermined.

Let's use the backpack example again. If two separate businesses follow the exact steps laid out in that example but one business is selling better backpacks, which brand will be more successful long term?
Value adding is the easiest way (not in terms of execution) to rise above your competition.

I agree to a certain extent, but I think we are talking past each other here. I agree that in the long run quality will always rise to the top. But most businesses have a limited lifespan - due to technology development, trends, general interest - and the smarter move seems to be a marketing blitz while the iron is hot, instead of adding value maximization over the span of a products life.

The issue seems to be that marketing is the gatekeeper to perceived or actual added value. You can build the ultimate backpack, but without proper execution, the value you worked so hard to add will fall on deaf ears.

On the other side, you can make a marginally better product (possibly a product with no improvements), and the marketing campaign across the web can add perceived value, which would make you a leader in the industry.

So the main point I'm confused about is, do I want to maximize added value at the cost of marketing strategy or maximize the marketing strat at the cost of adding substantial value?

In a perfect world, we could have both, but that's not how it works. At some point 1 of those 2 pieces will be more important than the other, and it seems like @biophase is saying the marketing end is overtaking the added value end. But maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

 

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[Vigilante]

Yes, but anyone can make an ostrich wallet. I think there are still plenty of one-product opportunities for products that require an engineer or months/years of work to design.

Entry barrier, as @amp0193 said.

They can?

 

[biophase]

Did anyone listen to the most recent Tim Ferris podcast with the 2 guys selling on Amazon:
How to Generate 8-Figure Revenue at Age 21 (Or Any Age) — Real 4-Hour Workweek Case Studies (#354)

As someone who has done Amazon FBA I find it hard to get my head around how they launched over 20 skus at once without taking on any outside investment. They say that the terms they got from their Chinese suppliers allowed them to scale. Any thoughts?
Its quiet an informative podcast about 2 guys who are scaling out fast and just using Amazon.

I'm guessing that if they could convince a factory that they will be successful that I can see factories doing this. My factories give me good terms now, but if I said that I could 10x my business and their business by them giving me 180 day after delivery terms, I think they would do it based on my track record with them.

I think it would be hard to convince a factory of this on your first or second order though.

 

[vshetty.vs]

So, what do you do now? Well, in my opinion, you can no longer launch a product on Amazon, you must launch a brand. You cannot think short term, you must think long term. You must have a much longer timeframe and a built out strategy that includes marketing outside of Amazon.

Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but Lebron and his trainer just launched a company called ladder fitness. Now I knew Lebron was a great marketer( you don't make 800M without know how to get endorsements), but the branding on their product honestly blew me away.

Just some context: Ladder provides supplements and protein powders for athletes(Pretty niche market, which is what got my attention). They are more expensive than your traditional Protein powder but they are certified by the national sports federation and made exclusively for athletes.

They have leveraged some celebrity endorsements and created a website but also maintained a blog, created a social media following and even built an email list all before launching a single product.

Ladder is not positioned as just another protein powder; they are a brand with a mission - helping athletes perform their best. It just so happens that the easiest way to do this is by creating NSF certified supplements.

 

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[Guest58302]

Launching on amazon still works if you can get PPC breakeven and social media to drive traffic. But seriously if you launch a PL product, what is going to compel people from social media to buy it?

I would say that having a product that improves on complaints that are noticeable on competitors' products could compel people to buy it. Though it seems that brand presence is another compelling factor that you're getting at.

You will definitely need more capital to launch now than before.

I know that people with limited funds always needed to think outside of the box but it looks like that threshold has risen immensely. What would you suggests for people with limited funds? It seems like they are forced to go with the one product launch. Unless they order multiple 'trial orders' of products but that would eat up any funds that could be used to improve one product.

 

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