Morals of business and selling

[DiamondDog]

I've been in your shoes before. My first business involved selling a product I didn't believe in. Science couldn't back up its benefits, although sports and medical professionals use it. I couldn't bring myself to keep selling this item despite the fact people wanted to buy it. It felt completely wrong and unethical to sell something you thought wouldn't help buyers and prospective buyers.

I got rid of my first batch and moved on to products that are actually useful.

Never felt that guilt again. I'm sure that 99% of people that buy from me are happy with their purchase.

 

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[Kevin88660]

So I've been trying to figure this one out...
I know its a "mindset" or "belief system" issue, and I've been trying to crack it in my head, but could use some help.

It seems that no matter what business you're in, no matter how valuable your product is, no matter how much it actually helps people...somewhere there is "waste".

• You sell Tesla cars to save the environment...YES the buyers have a low carbon footprint but the Tesla factories and manufacturing process probably do some environmentally shady shit to bring them to market.
• You sell people on [starting their own business, inventing their own products, trading the stock market, etc]...YES those who do can change their life, but most probably won't get it.
• You're a life coach and sell people on your books, seminars, coaching, etc...YES some people will have amazing results, but most will simply not do the work required.
• Or (not to make this a religious argument by any means) you're God or the church or whatever, and tell everyone to worship you and tithe...but again most people just aren't going to live their lives fully according to your dogma and aren't going to reap the full rewards compared to if they did.

It seems that this affects everyone and everything!

So my question is...how do you justify entering into business selling products when you know the "goodness efficiency" of it is going to be low. You know most people who buy your products aren't going to get the most benefit. You know there is going to be some "waste"...and that waste is your gain.


Side note:
(As an employee, or perhaps a provider of some services, this isn't as much the case. Since your time is directly going to producing value. Maybe you the employee are "wasting" your time/life. Or you slack off a bit on the job and so you're "wasting" some of the company's money.)


Anyway, this has been rolling around in my head a while and I haven't yet flipped the switch on this one. But I know I can somehow.
Some have suggested:

• Well you do the thing for the few that do get the most benefit. The few that do make up for the many that don't.
• Maybe sell higher priced products/services so you weed out all the "many" that aren't going to be dedicated to getting the full benefit.

Any more ideas, thoughts, whatever, I'm open to hearing and would love a discussion about this. Especially from those already running successful businesses.

With the exception of Tesla, from the examples you have given you do have a problem with people selling snake oil.

Just stop selling snake oil.

 

[socaldude]

There will always be products or services or markets that have moral or waste issues. It’s just a fact of life and we as entrepreneurs have to find ways to fix them. That’s why we are here.

A drug dealer sells a drug to a customer that dies from an overdose? Not good. What is the solution to this? How can we fix this?

Tesla actually fixes a lot of “waste”. Cars give off carbon pollution. The fuel they burn is mostly wasted as heat from the combustion engine. The used oil is useless and toxic to the environment. Etc

That’s our job as entrepreneurs. To find misallocations of resources, inefficiencies, and waste and find a solution. Find a better way. Create a new solution for it. It’s more immoral for everyone to sit around and do nothing and just waste time and resources on things that have no utility.

 

[WabiSabi]

A drug dealer sells a drug to a customer that dies from an overdose? Not good. What is the solution to this? How can we fix this?

Just to play devil's advocate...

I think this is why some people see capitalism as "evil". From a business standpoint you CAN run a drug-dealing business and be profitable but is it good for society? Turns out, Society doesn't function well with widespread drug addiction, ask China how well that worked out.

Capitalism is neither good, nor bad, it's just a series of exchanges. It can be a very beneficial force in the world, but it can also be used unethically.

 

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[socaldude]

I think this is why some people see capitalism as "evil".

I think when most people lash out at capitalism they’re lashing out on something that’s not even capitalism. Economics and it’s causes are very difficult to understand and it’s not something you see with your eyes. Most people can’t understand something beyond their own senses.

Economics is a notoriously divided field. I think the best way to think about it is in first principles. Who own or controls the resources and how. Stuff like that.

 

[RayAndré]

yea I guess I grew up with a non-pro-capitalist mindset. not necessarily an anti-capitalist one, just not totally for it. and if anything my parents were probably somewhat more socialist or maybe even communist mentality. I'm not sure.
either way, I just need to fully convince myself that capitalism is the way to go. and I already believe that on some levels.
I kinda feel like Kiyosaki from Rich Dad Poor Dad, trying to make his own decisions when being taught two opposing viewpoints.

 

[Lyinx]

I think the best way to think about it is in first principles. Who own or controls the resources and how. Stuff like that.

I was reminded of this very thing when the pandemic hit... I thought, "who controls things"?
the most important things are: 1: food, and 2:safety ... everything else is based on top of those two things.

 

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[socaldude]

I just remembered in economics its called a nagative externality.

 

[RayAndré]

"nagative externality"...never heard of it

 

[Lyinx]

"nagative externality"...never heard of it

Same here... this is what a quick search got me... Externality - Wikipedia

I never thought of it like that, especially how ones actions affect others (like the truck in the photo, pouring out diesel) would have been considered as, "not a big deal", but if you think of how it affects others... yikes...

 

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[Rabby]

"Nagative" was surely a typo, and negative externality is mentioned in the wikipedia article

 

[Lyinx]

"Nagative" was surely a typo, and negative externality is mentioned in the wikipedia article

*@!Xing grammor nazis man...

 

[Jon L]

*@!Xing grammor nazis man...

Sometimes, grammar nazis are your friend, though:

"Highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector”

missing a very helpful comma...

 

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[Lyinx]

Sometimes, grammar nazis are your friend, though:

"Highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector”

missing a very helpful comma...

deliberately seeded the previous comment to see if I can get Rabbi on here again

 

[socaldude]

Just learned something new. Theres also negative and positive internalities. A buyer or seller incurs a negative consequence like buying and smoking cigarettes.

I guess this is most consistent with what we are discussing.

Internality - Wikipedia

 

[Rabby]

*@!Xing grammor nazis man...

Sometimes, grammar nazis are your friend, though:

"Highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector”

missing a very helpful comma...

Surely "grammor" was a typo, since gramarye nazis are the type of nazis who can summon 800-year-old demigods...

deliberately seeded the previous comment to see if I can get Rabbi on here again

Uh huh... I see what you did there...

 

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[Phil Yu]

This is just my humble .02

It is all about prospective. You can only take care so much to a point and no matter what you do, someone can see it as negative. Lets say you are sharing your business tip on social media, the pro socialism would say that you are raising other to take advantage workers.

The way i do it, i just do what i can. I dont sell things i dont feel good about. When i do business, I would do the best customer service i can so that they have a good purchase experience. There was this flip i did last year. the customer messaged me and told me that the jersey i sold him made his day. Could this baseball fandom of his is ruining his marriage? it can be. But at least i did what i can.