Modifications to existing products

[Martin Tale]

Hi,

I'm currently researching a product and want to modify it. There already exists this modification but the design of it isn't great and zero marketing effort has gone into it and I know I can do better.

My questions are:

1. When I provide my design to manufacturer/trader:
   1. Will they sell the modified version to others through Alibaba or can I get exclusive rights for it?
   2. If I send it to multiple suppliers and the ones that say that they can't do it - would they take advantage of designs in some way?
2. By how much can I expect the costs of production to increase (I'm talking about small amendments to form and color + my brand)?
3. By how much can I expect the MOQ to increase? I can only assume for modified products you can't get samples?

These are very important one at the start to minimize risk and establish brand. I don't want copies of it appearing before I have ordered/received/sold/shipped my own product and established the brand. After that it's much less of a problem of course.

I'm already in process of reading @Walter Hay thread (a lot of great info there) but I have already started and want to push forward as fast as possible while I continue reading/learning more about importing/e-commerce etc..

- Martin

 

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[J. van Driessen]

Hi Martin,

I'm afraid the answers to your questions will be very specific based on the supplier and the product.

I have requested modifications to an existing product recently and did so through reaching out to suppliers on Alibaba. Just ask them!

Good luck

 

[ChrisJTurner]

Assuming to keep your margins as low as possible, you will be using manufacturers overseas?

This is where you may find it difficult, unless you build up trust with one of them.

Not only is it easy for manufacturers to copy products (and produce them cheaper) but the governing legislation in your country wont necessarily apply.
There's even (or was) a fake Apple shop in China, so in many ways you are not protected.

Unless you can apply for a patent, or maybe a patent on the modification the only option you have is a great marketing strategy, great brand and of course your speed to market will also determine your success.

My plan would be to build a trust with a local manufacturer, have them sign some legal documentation and get them to make the prototype.
Once you have this prototype, you can then order them in mass production overseas.

Expect a pretty steep MOQ for first production runs as the product would be unfounded and i'm guessing you wouldn't want to invest too much in a product that will go unsold.

I'm not sure what you are planning to make; but would you consider production via 3d printing?
Maybe you could have a considerable cost saving here.

Good luck

 

[Martin Tale]

I'm afraid the answers to your questions will be very specific based on the supplier and the product.

You might be right but I'm still interested in other people experiences with custom products. How did it go for you so far?

Assuming to keep your margins as low as possible, you will be using manufacturers overseas?

Yes, I'll look into local manufacturers but I'm quite sure there aren't any.

This is where you may find it difficult, unless you build up trust with one.

Not only is it easy for manufacturers to copy products (and produce them cheaper) but the governing legislation in your country wont necessarily apply.
There's even (or was) a fake Apple shop in China, so in many way you are not protected.

At the beginning it might turn out to be fatal if someone gets my product before I start selling it and as I said before when it's somewhat established - it's much easier to deal with copycats. Mainly because you bring value from just the brand.

Unless you can apply for a patent, or maybe a patent on the modification the only option you have is a great marketing strategy, great brand and of course your speed to market will also determine your success.

I won't be going for a patent but I completely agree with the rest - marketing, brand and speed is very important for my plan to work.

 

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[Bigguns50]

@Martin Tale .. Are you talking about taking an existing product, making slight changes, and branding it yourself ? If so, many here have done this so the answer is here. Maybe they will catch this thread.

@ChrisJTurner is spot on with his advice.

I don't see an "Introduction" from you. Would be a good thing to do so we all can get to know you.

 

[Martin Tale]

I'm not sure what you are planning to make; but would you consider production via 3d printing?
Maybe you could have a considerable cost saving here.

I'm working on a 3d model of it but it's not something that can be 3d printed to be functional (at least not yet).

@@Martin Tale .. Are you talking about taking an existing product, making slight changes, and branding it yourself ? If so, many here have done this so the answer is here. Maybe they will catch this thread.

That's exactly what I'm doing

I don't see an "Introduction" from you. Would be a good thing to do so we all can get to know you.

I thought about it and decided against creating one as I wanted to show actual progress I have made instead but I will create a small intro tonight.

 

[ChrisJTurner]

If you feel that its a great product, maybe you can ask a few close friends what they think of it.

You'd be suprised on how advanced 3D printing is.
A good friend of mine refurbishes pre 1950`s exotics and creates his parts on a 3d printer.
Maybe you could find a local company, sign an NDA (for what its worth) and make a MVP.
I'm sure there are many manufacturers who can make it for you. Heck, even local engineering companies will help you for a fee.

Local manufacturers?
Ok, so it took me 10 seconds in total to open a tab, type into Google and found a local company that would do it.
www.mvpeng.co.uk/ to be fair, its not that hard. Google is your friend.

From their site:
-----------
"In addition to manufacture we also offer a full design service to meet all your needs"
-----------

... I guess you can take a horse to water...

So as long as you dont live in BumFuck no-where, you'll easily find one.
Take your 3D model and they'll give you a price, easy.

 

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[J. van Driessen]

You might be right but I'm still interested in other people experiences with custom products. How did it go for you so far?

Pretty good, although their quality norms are not what we are use to in Europe.
Also beware: if you receive samples: the quality of the final product won't be better than the samples.

 

[Vigilante]

Trust nobody. There are no collusion laws in Asia, knockoffs of knockoffs abound, and the manufacturers will not grant you exclusivity on anything unless you have made a significant investment. Read the book Thick Face, Black Heart. Speed to market is likely the only real advantage. The bigger you get faster, and the more significant to the manufacturer, the less likely they are to screw you over.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Martin Tale]

Local manufacturers?
Ok, so it took me 10 seconds in total to open a tab, type into Google and found a local company that would do it.
www.mvpeng.co.uk/ to be fair, its not that hard. Google is your friend.

From their site:
-----------
"In addition to manufacture we also offer a full design service to meet all your needs"
-----------

... I guess you can take a horse to water...

So as long as you dont live in BumFuck no-where, you'll easily find one.
Take your 3D model and they'll give you a price, easy.

The product involves electronics but I know what you mean. I'm sure I'll find people who can make me a prototype with the actual design.
I'm actually in the middle of nowhere but anywhere in Europe is close enough for me to go there.

Trust nobody. There are no collusion laws in Asia, knockoffs of knockoffs abound, and the manufacturers will not grant you exclusivity on anything unless you have made a significant investment. Read the book Thick Face, Black Heart. Speed to market is likely the only real advantage. The bigger you get faster, and the more significant to the manufacturer, the less likely they are to screw you over.

Good point. I think I'm just too protective of it for some stupid reasons.

 

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[ChrisJTurner]

The product involves electronics but I know what you mean. I'm sure I'll find people who can make me a prototype with the actual design.
I'm actually in the middle of nowhere but anywhere in Europe is close enough for me to go there.

Well, Europe is a good start as at least you can go all over if you have a EU Passport.

If you are nervous about the protection of your idea, why not break your product down into pieces and use one manufacturer for the electrics, and the other for the housing of the electrics.

For sure you have an uphill struggle but I guess that goes with any business really. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

Well, I wish you the best of luck Martin.

Chris

 

[Martin Tale]

Well, Europe is a good start as at least you can go all over if you have a EU Passport.

If you are nervous about the protection of your idea, why not break your product down into pieces and use one manufacturer for the electrics, and the other for the housing of the electrics.

For sure you have an uphill struggle but I guess that goes with any business really. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

Well, I wish you the best of luck Martin.

Chris

Not a bad idea. I'm still considering my options as I have a few on how to proceed.

Thanks

 

[biophase]

You can build your brand into the molds, so someone copying it would have to make all new molds. Find other ways to make it hard for people to knock off. Add another processing step afterwards or another add on product to bundle, etc...

 

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[Walter Hay]

Well, Europe is a good start as at least you can go all over if you have a EU Passport.

If you are nervous about the protection of your idea, why not break your product down into pieces and use one manufacturer for the electrics, and the other for the housing of the electrics.

For sure you have an uphill struggle but I guess that goes with any business really. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

Well, I wish you the best of luck Martin.

Chris

You can build your brand into the molds, so someone copying it would have to make all new molds. Find other ways to make it hard for people to knock off. Add another processing step afterwards or another add on product to bundle, etc...

Both of these suggestions can be applied to great advantage.

Yesterday I posted a reply in my AMA to a question about Foreign (or Free) Trade Zones. You will find these all over Europe as well as in many other countries.

One big possible benefit that I did not mention could apply to Martin. Among the services offered by fulfillment centers in many such zones is simple assembly of imported and local components. The big benefits are:

• Duty is not payable until the goods are shipped out when sold.
  
• That duty will only be payable on the import value of the components, not the finished product.
• You gain the benefit of being able to identify the product as Made in the EU ,or the USA, or whatever country the FTZ is in. (subject to the value added in the FTZ)

I endorse all the comments about the risks of developing new or improved products in Asia. One of my former franchisees ordered a new product and instructed the manufacturer that no illustrations of it were to be used in any advertising. They complied, but an associated company published a photo of the product. Our long established good relationship with the supplier was our only protection, and on my request they immediately removed the offending illustration.

This illustrates the truth of @Vigilante's comment: "the more significant to the manufacturer, the less likely they are to screw you over."

Walter

 

[Martin Tale]

@Walter Hay As always.. Information you provide is gold I will post all updates on how I proceed with all this in my progress thread when I actually get to that point.

 

[caezlar]

don't try to find a manufacturer from Alibaba for your design, unless you are 100% luck man.
how Chinese trading company find their suppliers? their suppliers are silent manufacturers which has no foreign trade department.
in Alibaba, there are lots of trade company said they are manufacturers, even you visit them, they can lead you to see "their" workshop, see their previously prepared business cards and a set of procedures.

 

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