Investing in a classic car?

[Fox]

Ever heard the saying 'We buy on emotion and justify with logic'

You already know what you are going to do.

Dan

We buy on emotion and justify with a Fastlane thread pretending it was logical hahaha.

 

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[Kak]

I am very interested in what folks have to say on this.

I myself am eyeing the Mercedes G wagons. They seem to hold value so well I could drive it with very little depreciation. Total cost of ownership could be less than a Tahoe, or Expedition if I can stomach the initial cost of a nice newer used one. Something in the mid $70s and drive it for a few years and still sell it in the mid $60s It makes pretty good financial sense to me.

 

[Kak]

If you're going to go for a G Wagon, please get a 2019+ model! The interior is so much better.

Before ordering my SVR, I was actually planning on getting a 2020 G63; however, I couldn't find one nor could I order one. Now they're all on the market... You can get a 2019 for a good deal right now.

I am on a TOTALLY different program than this. As much as I love the 2019s and agree with you completely about them being worlds nicer... I am not paying $150k+ for a car at the moment... Although, if you are going to buy something new, G wagons, Lexus LX/GX, Ford Raptors and Jeep Wranglers seem to be some of the best to do that with.

I like money more than I like cars at my current stage in life. Paying 75 for a G550 and selling it for 65 in 3 years seems like a great way to drive a cool car that I like without spending anything of consequence on it.

It is a late 70s 911SC Coupe. This one is around 40%+ less what it would normally go for.

A VERY cool car! Sounds like you can buy it under market and play for a while for nearly free.

 

[Kak]

@MoneyDoc

Here is the tale of two G wagons...

2016 G550 w/ 49,000 miles on it listed for $68,442
2013 G550 w/ 77,000 miles on it listed for $54,891

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $13,551

Depreciation per year- $4,517

Depreciation per month- $376.42

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 9,300

That is downright cheap.

By comparison, a tale of two Tahoes...

2020 Tahoe Premier for $68k
2017 Tahoe Premier 32k miles for $44,688

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $23,312

Depreciation per year- $7,770

Depreciation per month- $647.55

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 10,666

 

[Stargazer]

At the moment there is a huge drop in classic car prices and I am thinking of picking up a dream car that I have had my eye on for a while.

The condition is really good and its way below normal sales price.

Ever heard the saying 'We buy on emotion and justify with logic'

You already know what you are going to do.

Dan

 

[biophase]

To be honest, I don’t even care what the depreciation of a car is any more. It’s not that I’m rolling in money but I have realized that I’m good at making money in a certain way so I maximize that portion of my life.

So then when it comes down to wanting something, I’ll just buy it.

With all that said... There are a couple cars that I’d like to get that are just too much for my brain to allow me to get. But I’ll be watching their prices. Having the possibility of appreciate is just icing on the cake!

They are 94 911 turbo and a Ford GT. To think I could have bought the Porsche for $50,000 back in 1999 LOL.

 

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[GIlman]

Down turns are great time to buy. In 2009, I bought a Lotus Elise for 1/3 off MSRP. Bought sight unseen from Michigan, shipped to AZ. Only 20 miles when delivered. It’s worth more today than when I bought it. Of course there are very few I’m the country today, and demand is reasonable high. I put about 2000 miles a year tootling around town, it’s a toy, but super fun. My substitute for a motorbike, after the crap I’ve seen from motorbikes I can’t own one again.

 

[Fox]

Hey everyone,

At the moment there is a huge drop in classic car prices and I am thinking of picking up a dream car that I have had my eye on for a while.
I won't link the actual one but it very nice. The condition is really good and its way below normal sales price.

Has anyone on here done well with with buying a car like this and selling it for the same or higher price a few years later?
I think @MJ DeMarco mentioned before he made money on his Lamborghini???

This one is a Porsche which have seen a massive spike in prices over the last few years.

I would love to know how others have done with this. Maybe @biophase you got some insight?

Basically have you managed to break even or make money while getting to enjoy the car too for a few years?

 

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[MoneyDoc]

I am very interested in what folks have to say on this.

I myself am eyeing the Mercedes G wagons. They seem to hold value so well I could drive it with very little depreciation. Total cost of ownership could be less than a Tahoe, or Expedition if I can stomach the initial cost of a nice newer used one. Something in the mid $70s and drive it for a few years and still sell it in the mid $60s It makes pretty good financial sense to me.

If you're going to go for a G Wagon, please get a 2019+ model! The interior is so much better.

Before ordering my SVR, I was actually planning on getting a 2020 G63; however, I couldn't find one nor could I order one. Now they're all on the market... You can get a 2019 for a good deal right now.

 

[Fox]

Care to share what specific model?

Besides the Carrera GT, I don't know of any other Porsche models that have appreciated over the past few years. Maybe a GT2 RS, but they're not classics.

It is a late 70s 911SC Coupe. This one is around 40%+ less what it would normally go for.

 

[Kak]

Not to mention that a newer car depreciates much faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if the depreciation on the same years G Wagon is more than a Tahoe costs

That is a possibility, and I am thankful for the likely sidewalking doctor or lawyer for taking that hit for me.

Are we talking money or cars?

70k acquisition cost is the constant in comparison. Not the year.

I find a 2016 G Wagon cooler than a 2020 Tahoe. Owned for 3 years, they are both WELL within their operating lifespan.

 

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[GravyBoat]

I'm with @Kak on letting a sidewalk baller take the depreciation hit on anything "new."

You can buy 3-5 year old high end, even exotic cars, for DIRT cheap. 50% of sticker. Drive it for a year or two, and not lose very much at all. Buying a brand new car is just not financially smart so you should only do it when you've met your financial goals and do not mind losing 5 figures on something you want.

During my sidewalk days, I bought a Gen 2 CTS-V for $42k, sticker was $96k.

$42k gets you a loaded Camry. Or a 550 HP and TQ leather wrapped rocket. Take your pick. They're even cheaper now.

I'll buy another when I've 10x'd my income.

 

[ljean]

<--- I broke even on this Porsche 911 Turbo. Paid $40k, got $40k from a dealer as a trade 5 yrs later with about 10k more miles. I could have sold it for more privately but then I have to deal with tire kickers and people just wanting to take a few laps in it.

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

It is a late 70s 911SC Coupe. This one is around 40%+ less what it would normally go for.

Nice!
Air cooled is the way to go.
Although as you said yourself prices have increased dramatically & no one knows the future.

Yes, older cars do tend to increase over time and even unremarkable Ford Sierras etal, sales rep's cars in the 1980's have fetched more than what they sold for when new.

Factors such as desirability when in production, current rarity & the pocket books and nostalgia of Gen-Xers for their boyhood dream cars significantly affects values.

True investment-grade cars are sat in humidity-controlled collectors' garages & don't see the road.

If you want a usable classic you'll probably not lose money on the purchase price, you might even recoup the servicing & maintenance costs as well, but don't bank on it, especially German cars in the US; I think it was Mercedes that effectively lobbied the US gov't to ban parallel imports to protect their revenue.

In short, if it's your dream car, you think it's a good price & you can afford to run it, because running costs sorts the men from the boys, get it and enjoy it.

Cars shouldn't be viewed as investments, they're tools and enjoyment & prices move with the economy, which means their value will be lowest exactly when you most need to sell assets to raise cash, you'll quickly find out how illiquid they are then.

I'm not a car investor or an expert but I have been around the Land Rover & MG scenes for a few years and saw the spike in Defender prices when production ceased. Current prices are way off the the highs and lots won't recoup their investment for many years, if ever.

Someone may be along and tell you differently, in the meantime the takeaway is:

The prices of investment sports cars may go down as well as up

And sometimes sideways into ditches...
As I recall early 911s were possessed & did try to kill their owners
(Get an agreed valuation on your insurance)

 

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[Ing]

911 of that area are soo cool!
They will not reduce worth. You can’t do wrong with them!

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

That is a possibility, and I am thankful for the likely sidewalking doctor or lawyer for taking that hit for me.

Are we talking money or cars?

70k acquisition cost is the constant in comparison. Not the year.

I find a 2016 G Wagon cooler than a 2020 Tahoe. Owned for 3 years, they are both WELL within their operating lifespan.

I meant that a 2020 G Wagon would depreciate at a faster rate than the 2016
But I totally get what you mean now about the 70k acquisition cost comparison
Of course the G Wagon will win every time it's a much better car
In 25 years no one's going to open a barn door & shout
"Oh look it's a Tahoe!"

 

[Longinus]

IMO, if you plan to buy a car older than 25-30 years, you should be able to work on it yourself. And with working I mean: maintenance, repairs, parts renewal etc. If you don't it might be pretty costly to maintain this car (unless you live in PL wink wink), especially maintenance done by official dealers.

The cool thing of cars this age is that they are quite easy to fix them. There's no annoying electronics or weird tools to avoid you working on it. So it would be good if you had a background in car mechanics, and it's also way more fun to own them.

 

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[Ing]

Ever heard the saying 'We buy on emotion and justify with logic'

You already know what you are going to do.

Dan

and sure its reasonable...

 

[MoneyDoc]

@MoneyDoc

Here is the tale of two G wagons...

2016 G550 w/ 49,000 miles on it listed for $68,442
2013 G550 w/ 77,000 miles on it listed for $54,891

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $13,551

Depreciation per year- $4,517

Depreciation per month- $376.42

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 9,300

That is downright cheap.

By comparison, a tale of two Tahoes...

2020 Tahoe Premier for $68k
2017 Tahoe Premier 32k miles for $44,688

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $23,312

Depreciation per year- $7,770

Depreciation per month- $647.55

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 10,666

Love the G Wagons for that simple reason. They always seem to hold value due to limited production.

Love the exterior spec on that 2016!

 

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[ljean]

@MoneyDoc

Here is the tale of two G wagons...

2016 G550 w/ 49,000 miles on it listed for $68,442
2013 G550 w/ 77,000 miles on it listed for $54,891

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $13,551

Depreciation per year- $4,517

Depreciation per month- $376.42

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 9,300

That is downright cheap.

By comparison, a tale of two Tahoes...

2020 Tahoe Premier for $68k
2017 Tahoe Premier 32k miles for $44,688

3 year spread. Total depreciation- $23,312

Depreciation per year- $7,770

Depreciation per month- $647.55

Miles allowed per year to get roughly the same outcome- 10,666

Thats not a fair comparison based on the model years. And dont forget any maintenance on the G is going to be 3x the Tahoe. I have an E63 and in 5 months i spent more on maintenance than I spent in 5 yrs on any other vehicle.

 

[Kak]

Thats not a fair comparison based on the model years. And dont forget any maintenance on the G is going to be 3x the Tahoe. I have an E63 and in 5 months i spent more on maintenance than I spent in 5 yrs on any other vehicle.

I am aware of what a Mercedes costs to own and maintain. I own an S550 currently. I don’t find it that bad. The AMG models have more expensive suspension and dual clutch transmissions that cost a fortune. In my example there is a LOT left in the spread between vehicles to pay for service.

I think it is a fair comparison because without much question, a new Tahoe is going to be more expensive to own than equivalently priced G wagon. That is all I was comparing.

There are people out there that think they are buying a modest Tahoe and making a sage decision because of the badge. That notion is a farce.

My goal here is to erase as little money from my possession as possible.

 

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[Lucky Lu]

I am aware of what a Mercedes costs to own and maintain. I own an S550 currently. I don’t find it that bad. The AMG models have more expensive suspension and dual clutch transmissions that cost a fortune. In my example there is a LOT left in the spread between vehicles to pay for service.

I think it is a fair comparison because without much question, a new Tahoe is going to be more expensive to own than equivalently priced G wagon. That is all I was comparing.

There are people out there that think they are buying a modest Tahoe and making a sage decision because of the badge. That notion is a farce.

Totally agree with this.
I was always on the side of owning an imported car/classic, than a new one (in my country it was a big deal, since the fantasy was that they were impossibly expensive to maintain) and always paid off. I always had very reliable cars and they held value better.

Mi 2 cents, when trying to hold value, always go for the full luxury version, the only struggle I had was when I bought a classic BMW that was one step below, and after a few years pass, most of the possible buyers look for the full lux version.

So for me, it always work to have an older but classic/luxury car rather than a new regular one.

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

The cool thing of cars this age is that they are quite easy to fix them. There's no annoying electronics or weird tools to avoid you working on it.

Just annoying seized bolts & the weird positions you assume to address them.

IMO, if you plan to buy a car older than 25-30 years, you should be able to work on it yourself. And with working I mean: maintenance, repairs, parts renewal etc. If you don't it might be pretty costly to maintain this car (unless you live in PL wink wink), especially maintenance done by official dealers.

You should be able to work on them or at least know enough about them to diagnose faults. It won't take long on a helpful Facebook group to learn about its idiosyncrasies, what to look for when buying etc.
However, you don't have to work on them, independent specialist garages are much cheaper than dealers, they know their stuff and can do the work so quickly it doesn't make sense to do the work yourself.

In the case of timing belts, brakes, suspension etc, a lot of parts manufacturers only offer warranty if professionally fitted and the specialist themselves often warranty their work for 12 months, plus they get their parts at trade or distributor prices and pass the savings on to you. My specialists do anyway.

Get recommendations from other car group members where to take it for servicing.

One forum member here that may be able to shed some light on the investable aspect of this particular car is @dmetts
I saw on another thread he was talking about his collector car storage facility

Anyway post some pics up when you get it
(Like you're not going to buy it )

 

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[GravyBoat]

I wouldn't do it as an "investment" per say. Go into it with the mindset of "how cheaply can I own something I've always wanted?"

If you make money, that's awesome. If you lose a little, it's still worth it because you've always wanted it.

Sure you can call it an investment but you should prepare yourself for any unaccounted for circumstances that may happen. Set your expectations not to make money, but to lose as little as possible doing something you wanted to do.

That being said, buy the thing. They're on sale right now. You deserve it.

 

[MitchC]

We buy on emotion.

When it comes time to sell it will be the same story, I think you will be fine. Everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it and if it’s a car the right person will love then they will pay anything

 

[Bruno11]

Pretty new to the forum and don’t have much to say about business yet but cars is the one thing I’ve made money on in the past,

May be a different niche of cars you’re looking at but I used to buy mainly jap cars from 90s, driving them/bit of tlc/modifications and flipping them after a few months, you couldn’t go wrong.


If you find a good example that Hasn’t been crashed/written off there almost either always hold their value or go up, so you get to enjoy it for free and get the money back when you’re over it.

when I was younger you could get low kms s15s, r34 gtrs for 8 and 25k now its an easy 20~ and gtrs have gone through the roof to 100k +

 

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[Roughneck]

cant speak much on the euro/exotic markets as I’ve never really been too much into them(for reasons you mentioned, just too much headache with servicing and Inventions by the companies to make it difficult to do it yourself)

but I remember hearing that good example m3s from the 2008-2010 era might become highly collectable, them being the last v8 produced + a bit more modern, the combo of white original paint with red interior sub 100k kms are already asking a premium.

Have had a look at these that you are talking about. I think they do seem of good value at the moment and can only go up. Another is B5 RS4's, although alot of examples seem to be high kms but they are definitely on the rise.
If I had money to burn, I would be getting one for sure.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Hey everyone,

At the moment there is a huge drop in classic car prices and I am thinking of picking up a dream car that I have had my eye on for a while.
I won't link the actual one but it very nice. The condition is really good and its way below normal sales price.

Has anyone on here done well with with buying a car like this and selling it for the same or higher price a few years later?
I think @MJ DeMarco mentioned before he made money on his Lamborghini???

This one is a Porsche which have seen a massive spike in prices over the last few years.

I would love to know how others have done with this. Maybe @biophase you got some insight?

Basically have you managed to break even or make money while getting to enjoy the car too for a few years?

Care to share what specific model?

Besides the Carrera GT, I don't know of any other Porsche models that have appreciated over the past few years. Maybe a GT2 RS, but they're not classics.

 

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[Lucky Lu]

Hey everyone,

At the moment there is a huge drop in classic car prices and I am thinking of picking up a dream car that I have had my eye on for a while.
I won't link the actual one but it very nice. The condition is really good and its way below normal sales price.

Has anyone on here done well with with buying a car like this and selling it for the same or higher price a few years later?
I think @MJ DeMarco mentioned before he made money on his Lamborghini???

This one is a Porsche which have seen a massive spike in prices over the last few years.

I would love to know how others have done with this. Maybe @biophase you got some insight?

Basically have you managed to break even or make money while getting to enjoy the car too for a few years?

I have the same idea. Watching the thread. I was watching Porsches, Mercedes AMG (convertibles) and Mustangs. Let´s keep us posted!

 

[Odysseus M Jones]

Thats not a fair comparison based on the model years. And dont forget any maintenance on the G is going to be 3x the Tahoe. I have an E63 and in 5 months i spent more on maintenance than I spent in 5 yrs on any other vehicle.

Not to mention that a newer car depreciates much faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if the depreciation on the same years G Wagon is more than a Tahoe costs