Interested in Digital Marketing? Why not try pay per appointment/show model? Ask anything you need!

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I should have sent you my affiliate link! ha.

My brand is a sub account and I run everything on that account for my clients. I have another sub account set up for signing clients.

Ha! Totally forgot about that.

Ok. I think I get it. I’ll probably just have to play around with it.

I saw that each sub account has its own calendar and client portal login.

How do you manage all of your clients with different calendars if you only have one calendar for them to log into and mark no shows?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding it.

Shouldn’t it go:
—AGENCY ACCOUNT (Your brand)
——CLIENT SUBACCOUNT (The client)
———CALENDAR (The clients calendar, portal, site, etc)

Like if you've got 2 different clients in two different cities, how do you manage leads coming in for those different locations, if you're managing both from one sub account?

 

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[Paul David]

Did you upgrade to the additional package for the Zapier integration? Do you think its necessary?

my zapier is $89 a month at the moment.

 

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[Paul David]

Hey Paul, I’ve been working on this for the carpet cleaning niche but I think customer value is too low ($150-$300) AND you don’t really book an appointment to go meet a carpet cleaner.

I think I would need lots of volume to make it up.

Maybe I can implement an instant rough quote feature into the SMS campaign or is all this too much trouble for low value services?

For carpet cleaners you would 1 offer, like 3 rooms for $149, and free hall included or something. Then send them to a messenger bot and have different options for more rooms as an upsell. And they choose which one they want.

It's lower value but you can book 10 appointments per day for carpet cleaners. As in use the messenger bot so the lead can select a suitable time for the job to be done. Then send that information to the cleaner to follow up.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

For carpet cleaners you would 1 offer, like 3 rooms for $149, and free hall included or something. Then send them to a messenger bot and have different options for more rooms as an upsell. And they choose which one they want.

It's lower value but you can book 10 appointments per day for carpet cleaners. As in use the messenger bot so the lead can select a suitable time for the job to be done. Then send that information to the cleaner to follow up.

Ah ok. I didn’t think of it like that. Right now I’ve got “50% off the largest room” on the page but that leaves open a lot of variables.

Much simpler to do a one time offer like that w/ a freebie and set your own price.

Clients can take it or leave it.

Thank you so much. Next post will be an update!

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Setting up some automations in HighLevel now and reading through this thread again.

Can you describe your funnel that leads go through? From Facebook Ad to booking?

Because I assumed every part of your funnel is automated but after reading here again and using HighLevel, it sounds like you talk to the lead and manually book their appointment to make sure their time slot is ok.

And the fact that you have a team in place to follow up and book appointments for leads.

Have you set up a chatbot system in HighLevel to automate this stuff?

Also, do you book people through a landing page or just through the actual Facebook Ad?

The way I have it set up is this:

1. Lead fills out form on location specific landing page
2. Lead is added to a campaign that sends a booking link (my calendar) to them
3. Lead books on my calendar with their info
4. Send a review request or follow up if marked no show

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Man, I've been looking forward to a @PizzaOnTheRoof progress thread for a while now.
View attachment 35101

Is it going to happen?

View attachment 35102

Ok, we're close though, right? Tell me we're close...

Man I had some things going then 2020 happened. Got laid off. Got fat. Quit coming to the forum. Depression. Lost my last client.

Started lurking the forum again and came across this thread and it seems up my alley to get things going again with a new/better method for lead gen.

I tend to bite off more than I can chew and too soon.

Right now looking for another job and this as a side hustle. Gotta pay rent first.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Many thanks for your answers to my earlier questions Paul, I'm still very much in awe of your concept

I think my biggest hurdle to trying your system is the fact I have (less than) zero experience in sales or cold-calling etc. A crucial step is clearly to contact businesses who have never heard of me and build up enough trust that they join forces with me.

I feel like I'm needing to climb a mountain. I know it can be done. But I don't know the route to take, equipment to use, which guide to hire etc.

To me, just thinking of phoning up companies who don't know me and then getting past the gatekeeper, building rapport with the business manager/owner, educating them to how I could bring them increased profits then training them on the booking system all seems like a real challenge.

Do you literally just call them out of the blue? Or warm them up beforehand with email campaigns, mailshots etc. Do you try to build your reputation in the industry somehow first?

Any tips or advice on how you learnt this stuff? I've started to do my research but it's early days. As always, thank you.

Sounds like he barely even cold calls. All warm leads because they either reply to his email or engage with the Facebook Ads.

Here are his responses from earlier:

It's so easy you wouldn't believe.

I use two methods at the moment, cold email and facebook ads.

I also posted in a facebook group for my niche and signed up 6 clients. Yesterday I signed up a client from a cold email without even speaking to them.

Once you mention NO UP FRONT costs it's a no brainer for them. Some people doing this model charge a set up fee and use that to pay for ad spend. I personally don't, I pay all ad spend myself.

I’ve automated the cold email process. Basically I send out an email saying we’re looking for someone to handle 15-30 clients a month. There are no up front costs and we handle everything on our side right up until they arrive for their appointment.

For Facebook ads I call out the owners in the niche and say more or less the same. Booking appointments is easy. We have access to our clients calendars and I have a portal set up with pages for each client detailing their details and links for their calendars etc. We just book directly on their calendar.

It’s all automated also using zapier, google sheets and high level.

For a beginner you need to choose a niche and stick with it for 6 months minimum. I’d personally do retainers for a couple of clients then you can use their money to work out cost per lead etc. Then later on transition to pay per show.

You need to know the numbers for pay per show so you don’t undercHarge and end up losing money.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Yes sure just send me a DM if you need that.

I've been doing some thinking over the weekend and I'm going to test something this week which may be a game changer in terms of signing clients.

I'm going to start running my Facebook ads (to sign client partners) to a messenger bot that qualifies them, then shows them a video (which is essentially replacing the sales call) explaining exactly how the program works, costs etc, FAQs, objection handling. Then send them a link to sign up.

Completely eliminating the need to even speak to the client before they become a partner.

PLEASE let us know how it turns out! Genius!

I've been running ads myself and already have 12 leads to contact. Do you email or call first? Do you use a template or script? How soon do you follow up?

 

[Clay Alexander]

Advert went live on Saturday so far I've signed up 13 clients without speaking to any of them.

That's unreal !!! This system you have created is just amazing and you're still evolving it lol Seriously impressive work

I spent the weekend re-reading all the info you've shared on your two threads and I'm back with a few more questions, if that's ok?

You seem to be using some advanced auto chat bots, what software are you using? And any tips or advice based on your own experience in terms of getting the most use out of them?

You've never mentioned google adwords, are you using them anywhere to obtain leads or clients? If not, how come? I'm just curious.

Do you use a simple legal contract of some sort with your business client partners?

If the partner business has no online booking system you can access, do you pass on that client? Also, for what other reasons have you decided not to take a client into your system?

You've talked about "It's all run under a brand I created inside this niche." How much time and effort are you spending on the landing pages/site or lead forms that you are sending customers to? For example, if your targeted industry was "tree surgeon" services, is it a full detailed tree surgeon general info site with a large `book now` form on every page OR a simple low info single landing page containing a large `book now` form? My instinct is always to go over the top and build a complex confidence building site that helps educate and motivate the customer to fill in the `book now` form but maybe it's just not necessary and not worth the time? Or do you maybe fill out the LP later on, after the niche is proven to be profitable?

As always, thank you for your time

 

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[Paul David]

Wow.

Thanks for the thread. Very insightful.

You control the whole process until the lead walks in the door. Therefore, when leads are scheduling appointments, they're doing so on your calendar/CRM. You're then manually adding the lead to your client's calendar... How do you know for certain that when you go to input that new booking in your clients calendar (that they've given you access to), they're able to take that appointment and you're not over-booking them? I

'm assuming either A) you're the only way the client gets a booking or B) the industry your working with is so fragmented and commoditized that it doesn't make a difference who gets the booking. Therefore, you're just booking whichever client has the open calendar space. Right?

If in the latter situation, I guess verticals where people tend to shop wouldn't fit the mold because you'd have to cater to one particular client's calendar.

I'm not sure I'm articulating my question well enough. Let me know if I should re-word that.

We work with one client in each area. So whatever leads we attract in that place we'll send all to the same client. We have access to their calendar so we can see when they have availability which prevents us from double booking.

We check their calendar before booking the client, so if the client wants 4pm today if they already have someone else in then on their calendar we'll offer the lead a time slot thats free. Then book.

 

[Paul David]

Are you saying that when leads see the addresses on your website, they're looking at all your client's addresses - essentially under the impression that all those addresses are your various locations?

So you're literally telling them: "Our address is Dominate Dental (Inside XYZ Dental Office), 123456 Get Money Ln. "

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes correct.

 

[Paul David]

What does your lead form look like? Is that where the lead tells you what time he wants?

I was assuming the lead had access to the calendar, but that’s not the case. That would be pretty dope for you if they could though, right? Then you wouldn’t have to manually follow up to book the appointment.

I’m trying to see your process from the leads perspective. It sounds like the client gives you his ideal time, you check the calendar and follow up with a confirmation or an alternative. Have i got it right?

We use a chat bots to qualify the leads and then the final question asks them when is the earliest they can come in?

Then we just open up the clients calendar on our side and check their preferred date and give some times that are free. Then we book on that calendar and also our own internal one which is used for follow ups and to send all appointments to a google sheet which we use to invoice the clients weekly.

 

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[Paul David]

That’s an interesting concept. I wonder what makes the difference between business owners who want to pay for the services and business owners that want to pay for results.

Was that YouTube video a Dan Warthrope video by chance?

I know Dan Wardrope. He's done very well with pay per lead model.

 

[Paul David]

The UK will enter another lockdown tomorrow for at least 4 weeks, that means all my clients will close.

Any appointments that we've set during this period can no longer be performed and we won't be paid. That will take us into December and if my clients are allowed to re-open and it's a big if it's likely they'll be swamped so won't want any new appointments until next year now.

Income back down to £0 a month.

I have a backup niche which I'm going to start this week. One that can continue during lockdown.

 

[Paul David]

You mean England rather than UK?

Scotland has the tier thingy and Wales ends midnight on Sunday.

So could you get clients in Wales and/or Scotland depending upon whereabouts in Scotland?

Good idea in having other niches though.

Construction and I assume - not checked - home Improvements - are allowed to carry on as those jobs can't be conducted from home.

Can you transition to some of those companies?

Dan

Sorry England not UK. Force of habit!

Yes, I could find more clients in Wales or Scotland.

New niche is on home improvement side, should have it ready to go in a few days. Then I just need to sign some clients which hopefully won't take long.

 

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[Paul David]

I've been working as a PPC Specialist over the last year for an agency and this has my head spinning!

I know you didn't mention price - but to make it worthwhile, I'm assuming you charge 2-3x the original CPL?

I do pay per show so I just manually came up with pricing offer.

 

[Tiago]

Keep up the good work!

 

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[Ronak]

Paul, I've been playing with this model as a side hustle.

Figured out a good pay per result offer that would resonate, reached out to my network and got my first client.

Launched first campaign, got leads, and proceeded to spend nearly $2k with no conversions. That client referred me to 2 others.

One of those wanted to put me through the wringer, asking me dozens of questions. I started to answer, then paused, deleted what I wrote, and said, essentially-- "good questions..my answer to all of them is, you don't get results, you don't pay, and I don't get paid. Our interests are aligned here. I'm very selective about clients since I am at risk for ad spend, so if you want to go with someone else who are more "slick" with their answers, please proceed without hesitation." A few days later, they came back wanting to move forward.

I was hesitant because the 1st client was costing me money. Moved forward anyway. Already got them dozens of leads, 5 figures in revenue, and my cut is 4 figures. This is within the first week of launching.

To anyone on the sidelines, just fricking do it. You'll figure it out as you go. I'm so glad I didn't stop after the first loss.

Since this is a side hustle, I'm struggling now with how far to take it, its so tempting to scale it up, but it would take away from my main venture. Good problem to have. I'm going to look into high-level.

I only have 2 worker bees! They are from the Phillippines and I pay them $250 a month each. Both work full time.

I'll probably always need them as we have to manually book appointments with working with so many different calendars - it's going to be difficult to automate.

How do you find qualify, and train them?

 

[Paul David]

So the weekend has more or less ended and I’ve got 19 clients signed up.

I’ve got 39 booked calls still to go including 16 alone tomorrow. The advert is currently at £0.32 per lead which is unbelievable.

Ive had to pause It now whilst I get caught up and get all the new clients onboarded.

Let the fun begin....

 

[Blackman]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

I don't use Facebook Ads or Paul's strategy for attracting clients, but I do Google Ads instead, so I think I can help you out with the above questions.

1. Generally speaking, with lead gen campaigns on Google Ads you're heavily dependant on the location's search volume, so if the numbers are really low and it doesn't make sense to advertise, then there's not much else you can do.

The only option is to target multiple areas, but making sure that customers from those areas would be willing to travel to the clinic. Most businesses don't need hundreds of leads every month, so even if you can get 10-20-30 leads/month, then a lot of times it's good enough, as long as you can work out a reasonable monthly fee for your services that works for both the client and yourself.

2. I work with search ads only, because as you said yourself, the commercial intent is very high, so I haven't bothered with any other ad types. As long as you have the campaign set up correctly, these leads are really high quality and they convert well.

Don't want to hi-jack Paul's thread, so if you want to do more reading on local lead gen via Google Ads, then you might want to check out this thread >> HOT TOPIC - Lead Gen for Local Service Businesses

 

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[Ronak]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

There's 3 levels on facebook--

1) Campaign-- this is your overall objective-- do you want a lead, conversion, etc?
2) Ad set-- this is your targeting--who will see the ad?
3) Ad- this will be your actual ad that shows on facebook

Your question pertains to the Ad set-- you can choose to target based on location, interest, demographics etc. In your case, it's probably homeowners in glasgow within x miles of the business location. On the right, FB will give you an estimate of audience size.

The bigger issue-- it doesn't really matter. Those are estimates and you have no way of knowing except to just do it.

So just do it!

If the client asks how many they can expect, be honest and say no one can really tell, it's all just estimates, but you only pay per appointment, so no risk to you!

Start with 1 campaign, 1 ad set, and 1-2 ads.
Then add in more ad sets with different interest targeting and copy the original ads over.

 

[Thiago Machado]

@Blackman thanks for the response!

Just for some updates:

I created a call only campaign.

Ad group themes were broken down into:

• Dentists
• Orthodontists
• Braces
• Transparent / clear braces
• Implants
• Etc (saying these off the top of my head)

The results:

• 36 calls
• Average CPC = $0,91
• 1 lead for braces with the AOV of $1920 for the lifetime of the treatment

Problems:

• A lot of calls were people looking for specific clinics (adding negative keywords on those)
• This is a new clinic and it seems like when people choose dentists they rely a lot on branding and word of mouth.

@Blackman do you ever do any Display Ads to build up awareness within a specific range of miles around the clinic?

Also, @Paul David - she said her best patients are the ones who want braces. The reason is because this gives her monthly recurring revenue. I was thinking of creating a FB ad within a 5mi radius of her clinic of her explaining everything about braces (video).

At my job I've only used Facebook for remarketing. So right now I'm just looking for some prospecting strategies to try to get her these braces leads.

 

[Paul David]

@Paul David you mentioned your staff consists of two VA's that handle lead follow up. I'm at the point where I need some help in following up with leads and would love to hear more about the hiring and training process you went through.

Could you share a bit about how you came to find these folks, such as where you looked, any screening processes, onboarding to your team, etc?

I initially went to onlinejobs.ph and hired from there.

Usually the first thing I do is get them to send me a voice recording.

If they have a good phone voice I can show them how to do everything else. Mostly its hands on training about how to use our CRM, and then questions our leads ask etc.

 

[Ronak]

Ok so today is a new day.

Time to climb over this hurdle. I've created lead ads now and just waiting for them to go live. Then see how these ads compare to the messenger ones before.

As for giving up and working for someone else, I read this post earlier and it re-emphasizes why I'll keep moving forward.

NOTABLE! - MINDSET - YOU HAVE NO CHOICE

YOU HAVE NO CHOICE What am I talking about? We like freedom round these parts. We choose what we want to do & when. No boss breathing down our necks. We always have options. We're not beholden to anyone. Ah. There it is though. The first of the unfinished sentences we pretend is complete...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The power of a brand new day. It's amazing how that works sometimes, and a great approach to life, which inevitably will have its ups and downs.

Go get em!

 

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[Paul David]

Any progress Paul?

Well yes and no really.

The last couple of weeks have exposed some major floors in my model -

1) My partners sometimes taking a couple of days to confirm jobs which is upsetting clients and we're having to chase up

2) Some partner payments getting declined even though they've been paid already, again meaning I'm having to chase up

3) Cash flow issues - because I'm paying for ads on my credit card and getting paid when the jobs are done it's having a negative effect on my cash flow. Some clients don't book jobs until mid february or even March meaning I'm waiting until after that to get paid. I've now maxed out my credit card and I can't run ads until I clear it and I can't clear it because I need to wait another 1-2 weeks for payments from my partners.

4) Complaints by clients about my partners work. Or complaints the partner hasn't turned up at all. As the ads are run under my brand people are complaining to me about jobs that aren't done right. Meaning I'm have to mediate. I had so many complaints from one partner I had to turn reviews off on my facebook page to protect my brand.

5) Cancellations. Since Jan 4th there are £6500 worth of job cancellations, mainly because of covid related issues. I would have got 30% of that.

6) Scaling. The reason why I've maxed out my credit card is because I added some more partners this month and my spend has increased. Unless you have a very high limit credit card or cash reserves it's difficult to scale this model. (Unless you charge a set up fee to cover the Ad spend for first month)

7) I had one partner who we booked lots of work for, unfortunately he was the one who we got the most complaints from by clients. Just after Christmas his bank payments were stopped and he wouldn't answer my calls for 3 weeks.

Eventually I got through and was told don't worry the money is safe, they will pay me etc. In the end I had to physically threaten to drive to this guys house and get the money myself and also leave 50 negative reviews on his company social media pages. This guy got his partner to call me, very apologetic but said he's only willing to pay what was outstanding for jobs done. There was another £1100 of future jobs that I was entitled to 30% commission from that they refused to do.

In the end I got the money from the jobs completed and left them negative reviews. I had to cancel the jobs with the customers for future jobs even though the agreement when they signed up was that they can stop at any time but they must complete any future jobs they'd already confirmed.

------------

After these issues I've actually decided to completely move away from the pay per lead/appointment model. On paper it seems like a great model but it doesn't take into consideration the behaviour from human beings. Some of which I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.

I've now moved onto a different model, selling Saas (which I was using for the pay per job model) to partners so they can run it themselves rather than paying me commission. Monthly subscription paid up front. Will also be setting it up for different niches.

 

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[Paul David]

Yes, chasing payments isn't fun-- I'm still waiting on $4000 from client for work done in November, while they want to add more projects. No more work until past payments are paid.

I still like the model, just needs a few tweaks:

1) Upfront payments--it takes some of the appeal away of "no upfront spend", but you can mitigate with a money back guarantee.

2) Choose your clients-- they must have a robust sales/followup process and in general be good with customers.

3) Set expectations-- if they've never done advertising before, they will not realize that the majority of leads will not convert, and you only need a small percentage to make a great return. If they are comparing your leads to referrals, that's not going to go well for anyone.

4) Larger clients-- they have more sophistication and are used to paying for services/value.
Currently working on this myself.

Saas is not a bad option, plus it's more scalable, though less cash flow upfront.

I'd certainly also suggest never to create your own brand and run ads from there then sending the work to other companies like I did. Had another customer today complaining, they've left two comments on my facebook page, they've just called me ranting and raving. My partner that I referred the work to has done a terrible job and he's not answering his phone to them or me.

 

[Paul David]

Is the software a white label of GHL?

Correct.

 

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[Ronak]

Awesome-- how are you getting your clients at the moment?

 

[Paul David]

Awesome-- how are you getting your clients at the moment?

cold email, facebook ads, organic facebook messenger messages, linked in messages, Instagram messages, referrals!

 

[killa_graham]

So many things have changed since I started this thread!

Over the past 2 months, I've been working with clients in one niche. I'm essentially charging them for my software but I also help them with Facebook ads.

The problem is that a lot of these people are very impatient when it comes to ads. The ad will be running for 3 days and they'll say the ad isn't working, can we change it etc. Or the ad was great for a week but now it's gone quiet.

I've even been having to educate them just on general business. One client called me and said I've got a new lead what do I say to them when I call? ha.

This week I've launched my software for any business niche. I'm charging a monthly fee for the software and I'm not including any ads. I'm out of the game.

I only got into marketing to grow my former eCommerce brand. I'm much more comfortable and happier in just selling software. Throughout this journey, I've now found my calling.

My goal is for 1000 paying users in 12 months. I'm only 979 short!

Love seeing your progress! Seems you've been through the refiner's fire over the past few months and are getting closer to a great scalable offer you enjoy delivering on.

 

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