Interested in Digital Marketing? Why not try pay per appointment/show model? Ask anything you need!

[Thiago Machado]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

 

[Paul David]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

I haven't used Google Ads with this model as yet, only Facebook ads sorry!

 

[Clay Alexander]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

 

[Clay Alexander]

Thanks for your input Ronak, there's a lot of useful stuff in there. Facebook is an unusual beast i feel.

I've been looking into Pauls system for the last few weeks and I feel I want to replicate it as closely as possible.

In terms of choosing and evaluating a niche, I need to really have proof that I can get a number of leads per month for any client *before* I go looking for clients, sign them up, onboard them, negotiate offer, share access to calenders etc. I don't want to do all that and then find out I can't supply any leads. I definitely don't feel I can say to clients that I have no idea how many leads I can get them. I feel I need to prove the market first, preferably at as low a cost as possible

So I'm staying focused on this part right now and hoping Paul will still find time to chime in.

 

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[Ronak]

Thanks for your input Ronak, there's a lot of useful stuff in there. Facebook is an unusual beast i feel.

I've been looking into Pauls system for the last few weeks and I feel I want to replicate it as closely as possible.

In terms of choosing and evaluating a niche, I need to really have proof that I can get a number of leads per month for any client *before* I go looking for clients, sign them up, onboard them, negotiate offer, share access to calenders etc. I don't want to do all that and then find out I can't supply any leads. I definitely don't feel I can say to clients that I have no idea how many leads I can get them. I feel I need to prove the market first, preferably at as low a cost as possible

So I'm staying focused on this part right now and hoping Paul will still find time to chime in.

How much of a budget do you have to test and get proof of concept?

 

[Blackman]

@Thiago Machado

No, I don't do any display ads - search ads only.

Dentistry is an expensive niche, so it is natural for people to do more research and look for well-known branded companies. As long as your client has all the necessary certifications/equipment/business premises, then I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to get leads for them.

As for getting loads of calls and no bookings, you need to look into your targeting and see what search terms are triggering your ads. Then neg all the irrelevant stuff and make sure your ads/keywords tie up well with your landing page.

 

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[Paul David]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

Sorry for my late reply I’ve been very busy this week with my new niche.

I was helped with my first niche because I’d already run ads on retainer model. So I’d used my clients money to see how much it was costing for leads etc.

In my new niche I’d never run an advert before until last week. So I had no idea how it was going to go and I was using my money to validate. The good thing with Facebook ads is that you can get feedback quite quickly.

As my clients are paying me commission it doesn’t matter to them if this fails, it hasn’t cost them nothing so don’t worry about that.

So my far in my new nice Ive got commission of around £1850 profit since last Thursday. That’s after ad spend. So not a bad start.

Unless a niche is very unique I wouldn’t even bother using Facebook interests targetting at first just call out your audience in your advert.
For example Attention Denver Homeowners or whatever.

 

[Paul David]

@Blackman thanks for the response!

Just for some updates:

I created a call only campaign.

Ad group themes were broken down into:

• Dentists
• Orthodontists
• Braces
• Transparent / clear braces
• Implants
• Etc (saying these off the top of my head)

The results:

• 36 calls
• Average CPC = $0,91
• 1 lead for braces with the AOV of $1920 for the lifetime of the treatment

Problems:

• A lot of calls were people looking for specific clinics (adding negative keywords on those)
• This is a new clinic and it seems like when people choose dentists they rely a lot on branding and word of mouth.

@Blackman do you ever do any Display Ads to build up awareness within a specific range of miles around the clinic?

Also, @Paul David - she said her best patients are the ones who want braces. The reason is because this gives her monthly recurring revenue. I was thinking of creating a FB ad within a 5mi radius of her clinic of her explaining everything about braces (video).

At my job I've only used Facebook for remarketing. So right now I'm just looking for some prospecting strategies to try to get her these braces leads.

I know lots of marketers doing very well running ads for dentists. Braces works well.

You can find out from the dentist how far people travel to them generally for braces and run an advert. Remember with Facebook people aren’t in buying mode so you need to come up with an offer to stop them scrolling down. For example 30% Braces. Or $1000 off etc. Not just information about them.

 

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[killa_graham]

Worst case scenario you can spend $10 a day in ads and offer to run them for free to one company to give you an idea of how many leads you can get

Remember though it’s not just about getting leads it’s following up with them and converting. In my niche we handle everything, my clients or I call them partners get a message in their phone app that we supply to tell them we’ve booked a new job and all they have to do is confirm or reschedule with the client.

Yesterday we had 200 leads from 10 partners to deal with!

@Paul David you mentioned your staff consists of two VA's that handle lead follow up. I'm at the point where I need some help in following up with leads and would love to hear more about the hiring and training process you went through.

Could you share a bit about how you came to find these folks, such as where you looked, any screening processes, onboarding to your team, etc?

 

[killa_graham]

I initially went to onlinejobs.ph and hired from there.

Usually the first thing I do is get them to send me a voice recording.

If they have a good phone voice I can show them how to do everything else. Mostly its hands on training about how to use our CRM, and then questions our leads ask etc.

Thanks @Paul David. Do you have them work US hours if they're in the Philippines?

How are things going with your new niche during the lockdown?

 

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[Paul David]

Thanks @Paul David. Do you have them work US hours if they're in the Philippines?

How are things going with your new niche during the lockdown?

They work UK hours for me yes.

 

[Paul David]

Update:

The new niche was working great, booked £14000 worth of jobs in 9 days of which I get 30%.

Then as per usual with the last 20 years of my business career things have gone to shit.

Facebook in order to comply with new privacy laws in Europe have stopped the way their messenger API works with users from those countries. So my ads that were running and converting well where stopped on Saturday morning. Without even sending me a notification.

I'm no longer allowed to run messenger ads with the objective of conversations. This must be replaced with Traffic ads and link clicks as the objective. Tested this yesterday and got 0 leads for 12 clients. Not only that my messenger bots which were booking jobs on autopilot are no longer working.

Unfortunately as I'm not in control, Facebook is (MJ talks about control in his book) and there's not much I can do about it. Still testing other ads but to see I'm angry, frustrated and down right pissed off at the moment is an understatement.

It's cold, miserable and wet here in the UK as usual this time of year which I despise anyway so I'm not in the happiest places. Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back.

I won't feel like this tomorrow but today i feel like giving up. Getting a job in a supermarket or anywhere for that matter turn up do the work, get paid and go home and forget about it.

 

[Ronak]

Update:

The new niche was working great, booked £14000 worth of jobs in 9 days of which I get 30%.

Then as per usual with the last 20 years of my business career things have gone to shit.

Facebook in order to comply with new privacy laws in Europe have stopped the way their messenger API works with users from those countries. So my ads that were running and converting well where stopped on Saturday morning. Without even sending me a notification.

I'm no longer allowed to run messenger ads with the objective of conversations. This must be replaced with Traffic ads and link clicks as the objective. Tested this yesterday and got 0 leads for 12 clients. Not only that my messenger bots which were booking jobs on autopilot are no longer working.

Unfortunately as I'm not in control, Facebook is (MJ talks about control in his book) and there's not much I can do about it. Still testing other ads but to see I'm angry, frustrated and down right pissed off at the moment is an understatement.

It's cold, miserable and wet here in the UK as usual this time of year which I despise anyway so I'm not in the happiest places. Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back.

I won't feel like this tomorrow but today i feel like giving up. Getting a job in a supermarket or anywhere for that matter turn up do the work, get paid and go home and forget about it.

Ah, Facebook, the ole devil.

Is messenger disabled for your account completely, or can you still run them for non EU countries?

BTW, that's phenomenal that you got 30%, was that an easy sell?

 

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[Paul David]

Ah, Facebook, the ole devil.

Is messenger disabled for your account completely, or can you still run them for non EU countries?

BTW, that's phenomenal that you got 30%, was that an easy sell?

No I can run Traffic ads and send them to messenger but none of the automation is working correctly (ie many chat) and the ads are performing very poorly.

Plus now with these new rules you can't even see ad performance for messenger, like how many chats have started etc.

Yes 30% was pretty easy sell to be honest.

 

[Ronak]

No I can run Traffic ads and send them to messenger but none of the automation is working correctly (ie many chat) and the ads are performing very poorly.

Plus now with these new rules you can't even see ad performance for messenger, like how many chats have started etc.

Yes 30% was pretty easy sell to be honest.

I wonder if that change affects US accounts? I still see the option for conversations objective. How about going after non eu?

 

[Paul David]

I wonder if that change affects US accounts? I still see the option for conversations objective. How about going after non eu?

Yes its fine for US. Just Europe thats affected.

US clients are a possibility however it would cost more to run ads over there and I just haven't got the cash flow at the moment to subside paying for ads myself.

Depending on how this situation goes I might have to go back to retainer model and hire a closer on commission.

 

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[Clay Alexander]

Any progress Paul?

 

[Clay Alexander]

wow Paul, you've had quite the rollercoaster ride on this, thanks for the updates and I've no doubt you'll find a way through.

 

[Paul David]

wow Paul, you've had quite the rollercoaster ride on this, thanks for the updates and I've no doubt you'll find a way through.

Thanks, I'm excited for the Saas model going forward. It certainly solves all 7 issues I highlighted earlier! Plus there's literally and unlimited ceiling for scaling.

 

[neofox]

The ending was a bit unexpected, but good on you for being so open about everything! I wish you well in your new endeavors.

 

[paulan]

I'd certainly also suggest never to create your own brand and run ads from there then sending the work to other companies like I did. Had another customer today complaining, they've left two comments on my facebook page, they've just called me ranting and raving. My partner that I referred the work to has done a terrible job and he's not answering his phone to them or me.

How is going so far with the business for you?

 

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[Votorik]

How does this model work? If you use this model can't they lie about them not showing up?

 

[Paul David]

How does this model work? If you use this model can't they lie about them not showing up?

They can lie of course but our team followed up with every client they said was a no show to make sure that was correct.

 

[FastNAwesome]

My goal is for 1000 paying users in 12 months. I'm only 979 short!

This is awesome! A winner's attitude.

 

[Votorik]

They can lie of course but our team followed up with every client they said was a no show to make sure that was correct.

Makes sense. thanks

 

[Votorik]

So many things have changed since I started this thread!

Over the past 2 months, I've been working with clients in one niche. I'm essentially charging them for my software but I also help them with Facebook ads.

The problem is that a lot of these people are very impatient when it comes to ads. The ad will be running for 3 days and they'll say the ad isn't working, can we change it etc. Or the ad was great for a week but now it's gone quiet.

I've even been having to educate them just on general business. One client called me and said I've got a new lead what do I say to them when I call? ha.

This week I've launched my software for any business niche. I'm charging a monthly fee for the software and I'm not including any ads. I'm out of the game.

I only got into marketing to grow my former eCommerce brand. I'm much more comfortable and happier in just selling software. Throughout this journey, I've now found my calling.

My goal is for 1000 paying users in 12 months. I'm only 979 short!

Did you build the software? is there a preview?

 

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[Paul David]

Did you build the software? is there a preview?

No, I didn't actually build the platform. It's sort of like an operating system for marketing agencies and you tailor it for your target niche.

I build out what features and functions I require. Will send you a link when it's ready.

 

[brockzilla]

No, I didn't actually build the platform. It's sort of like an operating system for marketing agencies and you tailor it for your target niche.

I build out what features and functions I require. Will send you a link when it's ready.

Is the software a white label of GHL?