The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
The Good Guys showed up...wasn't sure they still existed! :D




Re: Securities and Exchange Commission v. Today’s Growth Consultant, Inc (dba “The Income Store”) and Kenneth D. Courtright, III, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Civil Action No. 1:19-CV-08454

Date: January 6, 2020

Attached is a Temporary Restraining Order Freezing Assets and Imposing Other Emergency Relief and Order Appointing Receiver that have been entered in the above referenced matter.

The Court has determined that the appointment of a receiver is necessary and appropriate for the purposes of marshaling and preserving the books and records and all assets of Today’s Growth Consultant, Inc.

Within the next few days a website will be established that will provide court documents and other information regarding the case that will answer many of your questions. For additional information, you may contact the office of the Receiver at (305) 542-4410 or incomestore@dvllp.com.

Temporary Restraining Order (01792605x9E1D6).pdf

Order Appointing Receiver (01792604x9E1D6).pdf
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

kkoasdfawfqwe2

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
256%
Feb 17, 2017
140
359
Europe
Securities and Exchange Commission v. Today’s Growth Consultant, Inc (dba “The Income Store”) and Kenneth D. Courtright, III, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Civil Action No. 1:19-CV-08454

I remember reading this thread back in 2018 and wondering how skilled they would have to be to pull such a business off.

Seems like shit just got real for them.

I hope anyone here who have money stuck with The Income Store will get as much of their money back as possible.

Will be interesting to follow the court case.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,080
169,500
Utah

Sadman

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 7, 2020
3
7
"15% guaranteed."

Sometimes the scam is so overt, so obvious, that nothing else needs to be reviewed. As soon as I read that nonsense I knew it was a house of cards.

Hope anyone who fell for it gets out with minimal damage.
Let’s not be glib and triumphant. I lost $173,000. It’s easy to say haha I told you so. I knew it was an unconventional investment but the company had been around for decades and it seemed legit and I wasn’t the only one who thought so. I don’t consider myself to be a sucker generally, I went in with my eyes open but I didn’t think it was actually a scam. I think they used to have a business model that worked but they got into trouble and tried to cover it by taking new investor money (like mine) so it became a ponzi scheme even if it didn’t start out like that. It’s a life changing event for me. I hope the owners and execs all go to prison and are miserable for the rest of their lives because they knew what they were doing when they took my money. In the end of course, it’s my fault. But that doesn’t mean that the people, like me, who have lost their life savings are stupid. We were conned. In hindsight it is obvious but for decades they did give investors returns. I just happened to be the last money into the pyramid, I’m to blame for being stupid. I hope the execs rot in a prison cell.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

AllenCrawley

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
420%
Oct 13, 2011
4,112
17,270
52
Scottsdale, AZ
Let’s not be glib and triumphant. I lost $173,000. It’s easy to say haha I told you so. I knew it was an unconventional investment but the company had been around for decades and it seemed legit and I wasn’t the only one who thought so. I don’t consider myself to be a sucker generally, I went in with my eyes open but I didn’t think it was actually a scam. I think they used to have a business model that worked but they got into trouble and tried to cover it by taking new investor money (like mine) so it became a ponzi scheme even if it didn’t start out like that. It’s a life changing event for me. I hope the owners and execs all go to prison and are miserable for the rest of their lives because they knew what they were doing when they took my money. In the end of course, it’s my fault. But that doesn’t mean that the people, like me, who have lost their life savings are stupid. We were conned. In hindsight it is obvious but for decades they did give investors returns. I just happened to be the last money into the pyramid, I’m to blame for being stupid. I hope the execs rot in a prison cell.
Glib and triumphant?

If you had read the warnings many shared here in this thread would you have continued with your investment into IS?
 

Sadman

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 7, 2020
3
7
Glib and triumphant?

If you had read the warnings many shared here in this thread would you have continued with your investment into IS?
No. But do you expect that every investor read this little forum before investing? I only found out about it in the aftermath. It’s not like I was a community member here and everyone told me not to do it but I did it anyway. I can tell you think it serves me right. And maybe it does. But I still lost my life’s savings.
 

AllenCrawley

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
420%
Oct 13, 2011
4,112
17,270
52
Scottsdale, AZ
No. But do you expect that every investor read this little forum before investing? I only found out about it in the aftermath. It’s not like I was a community member here and everyone told me not to do it but I did it anyway. I can tell you think it serves me right. And maybe it does. But I still lost my life’s savings.
No, I'm saddened you lost $173,000. It actually angers me when people/companies prey on people to make money. I have a number of posts on this "little" forum about that very thing.

I know you hadn't read this thread prior due to the fact you just created your account today. You missed my very subtle point. I don't know you but I do know a vast majority of people are blinded by easy money promises and overlook obvious red flags and even warnings from others. Some have read this thread and continued with their investment. I was just curious if you would have as well.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Sadman

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 7, 2020
3
7
No, I'm saddened you lost $173,000. It actually angers me when people/companies prey on people to make money. I have a number of posts on this "little" forum about that very thing.

I know you hadn't read this thread prior due to the fact you just created your account today. You missed my very subtle point. I don't know you but I do know a vast majority of people are blinded by easy money promises and overlook obvious red flags and even warnings from others. Some have read this thread and continued with their investment. I was just curious if you would have as well.
Yep. And I take full responsibility for my misfortune. I’m just saying that I never considered myself a gullible investor. I used to watch American Greed on TV and wonder why on earth people would fork over their savings for dodgy promises. But now I’m one of them. I did it because I wasn’t able to invest in securities due to me being a dual U.K./US citizen, which means you run afoul of both tax regimes by investing in things like mutual funds which I’d always done. I was told I was non compliant and subject to a severe penalty so I sold everything and began investigating alternative investments. These guys advertised on the radio, I checked them out, thought that since they’d been in business for decades and the CEO was a former banker that it looked legit whilst understanding it was a bit alternative. I guess I just thought it was a pint worth taking. I have friends who have made fortunes in similar ventures. And lots of investors in the Income Store did make a lot of money. Only in retrospect does it look like stupidity. I’m not asking for pity. I’m not sure what I’m saying except that it’s easy in retrospect to say that this was obviously a scam. But for me and for lots of people it’s blown a massive hole in their lives and I never considered myself a schmuck, but I guess I was.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,080
169,500
Utah
But do you expect that every investor read this little forum before investing?

Actually yes, before investing $200,000 with a small company who promises "15% guaranteed" a simple Google search would have turned up this thread and become a part of your due diligence.

I would never part with six-figures (especially if it amounted to my life savings) with a small company without a substantial diligence examination.

People with a background in investments, finance, and eCommerce business explicitly said IS stunk of bull-shit. But the allure of easy "passive income" is too great to ignore for most folks.

I hope you're able to recover, if not the investment, then financially and emotionally. $173,000 is quite an expensive lesson. With that said, I'd be happy to send you my two books (complimentary) that can get you back on track to sustainable, legitimate financial freedom. Of course, no strings or cost -- just a hope that it helps you turn things around.

This offer is available to any income store VICTIMS -- use the contact us link (in the forum footer) and send me your mailing address (complete with your story) and I'll send you two signed copies of my book, absolutely free of charge.

As Allen mentioned, it really sucks that so many people were taken for a ride.

But alas, it is not the end, but the beginning.

Good luck.
 

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
I remember reading this thread back in 2018 and wondering how skilled they would have to be to pull such a business off.

Seems like shit just got real for them.

I hope anyone here who have money stuck with The Income Store will get as much of their money back as possible.

Will be interesting to follow the court case.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK3oCIxRqJk



Emilia Gardner piecing together interesting lawsuit details on youtube.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
Last edited:

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
Yep. And I take full responsibility for my misfortune. I’m just saying that I never considered myself a gullible investor. I used to watch American Greed on TV and wonder why on earth people would fork over their savings for dodgy promises. But now I’m one of them. I did it because I wasn’t able to invest in securities due to me being a dual U.K./US citizen, which means you run afoul of both tax regimes by investing in things like mutual funds which I’d always done. I was told I was non compliant and subject to a severe penalty so I sold everything and began investigating alternative investments. These guys advertised on the radio, I checked them out, thought that since they’d been in business for decades and the CEO was a former banker that it looked legit whilst understanding it was a bit alternative. I guess I just thought it was a pint worth taking. I have friends who have made fortunes in similar ventures. And lots of investors in the Income Store did make a lot of money. Only in retrospect does it look like stupidity. I’m not asking for pity. I’m not sure what I’m saying except that it’s easy in retrospect to say that this was obviously a scam. But for me and for lots of people it’s blown a massive hole in their lives and I never considered myself a schmuck, but I guess I was.

Anyone who has taken substantial risks is not batting 1.000 - that is guaranteed. OF course I have made smart losses along with bad bets -- but in the end "its all just poker" and smart losses don't feel any better than my bad losses. Of course, we can all cheer for the decisions for losses avoided here - well played! But your instincts were to put trust in a person and his story. That's a GOOD instinct - lose the schmuck self talk as it matters and you don't deserve it. Bernie Madoff got the best of a bunch of smart money - and through 9 payments over 10 years investors have averaged 66% recovery of their original investments. A lot of ways to lose 30% in today's market conditions. Think carefully about what you MIGHT have done differently -- and label that analysis as a future resurce but lose the schmuck label. My best wins have come from moving on from bad beats. Good luck.
 

DaveC

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
166%
Oct 15, 2012
160
266
Chicago, IL
Funny, I just had a conversation on IS with some of my partners. I'm not sure what went on here behind the scenes. I had talked to them about investing maybe 4 years ago but felt that the return simply didn't match the risk. But based on the letter, it looks like they were really just chasing the latest online fad (Google->Facebook->Shopify). It just brings back to the front the concepts of control. I've actually been moving away from "passive" online business investing because of the massive changes happening with Google, Facebook, and Amazon.
 

transient

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
86%
Dec 5, 2019
7
6
I know this is off topic so I'll only post about this once but...

The IS model always had me scratching my head. How could they possibly promise those returns in perpetuity? The internet doesn't work like that.

Their original today's growth model works I think. The "authority site" model. They would help you, the expert in some field, build a site. They host it, run it, keep it updated and secure, help you with regular redesigns, and take some cut. No guaranteed returns.

I'd like to take it further by matching people with domain knowledge with people with money. The people with money fund the people with knowledge to buy/build/run a site and then once active take a cut off the top to profit on the investment. The IS type company would only ever be responsible for valuing a site and helping with the purchase, hosting, match making, security, redesigns, SEO, and cheap supplementary content. Ecommerce help and support as well. I think there is plenty of money to be made. Just not 15% guaranteed. The workload here is far more manageable and the main pressure for success/failure would be placed between investor and and expert rather than on the IS type company. IS type company would just be a support system... Kind of like a franchise.

There is definitely a large group of people with good ideas and work ethic but little tech skill, and a large group of people with money they want to invest in something risky. I suppose I'm drawn to this because I have most of the right skills to be the IS type company in this instance.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

biophase

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
474%
Jul 25, 2007
9,121
43,261
Scottsdale, AZ
Let’s not be glib and triumphant. I lost $173,000. It’s easy to say haha I told you so. I knew it was an unconventional investment but the company had been around for decades and it seemed legit and I wasn’t the only one who thought so. I don’t consider myself to be a sucker generally, I went in with my eyes open but I didn’t think it was actually a scam. I think they used to have a business model that worked but they got into trouble and tried to cover it by taking new investor money (like mine) so it became a ponzi scheme even if it didn’t start out like that. It’s a life changing event for me. I hope the owners and execs all go to prison and are miserable for the rest of their lives because they knew what they were doing when they took my money. In the end of course, it’s my fault. But that doesn’t mean that the people, like me, who have lost their life savings are stupid. We were conned. In hindsight it is obvious but for decades they did give investors returns. I just happened to be the last money into the pyramid, I’m to blame for being stupid. I hope the execs rot in a prison cell.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost alot of money. We've all lost money on investments. The key is to learn from them. I actually got lucky about 10 years ago when I invested a small sum of money into a "guaranteed" return real estate scheme. Luckily for me, I decided to withdraw my entire investment about 2 months before they imploded. It wasn't because I knew anything, I just happen to need the money.

So I don't think we are gloating here, but I guess we are saying I told you so in some way. This thread is a year old. I don't know if you invested in IS prior to that time. I hope this thread has turned away a bunch of investors. Because if more people kept investing in the past year, this scheme would still be going and people would still be defending them.

Bottom line is that you are responsible for your own investment decisions. Due diligence is up to the investor, you just can't outsource that at all.

Hopefully this will be a blip in your investment career and because of it your future investments will fare better.
 

grohiit

New Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 8, 2020
6
14
Boise, ID
Feeling really sorry for the loss of other investors. As MJ stated, I hope you recover emotionally if not financially.

I was burnt by a RE scheme in the past which led me to read (and re-read) Millionaire Fastlane in 2016.

After reading, I was so excited that I went to work on building a business seriously for the last few years. Many 80 hour weeks later, I now have a profitable business generating 6 figures a month.

I never knew that a fastlane forum existed . I only came across this forum last month in December because I heard of income store falling apart and my business is exactly same as income store. Except I don't take others money.

I build income generating sites mostly for myself. I did take investors money once, but been very scared to take more money since. Because in this business, finding good sites to buy is the bottleneck. Money is not. We are having a hard time putting the money we generated to good use back in the business. Finding good sites is so hard that we spend thousands of hours in finding and doing due diligence on new sites.

When I heard guaranteed 15% returns, it didn't sound surprising because 15% is definitely possible. I guess any legitimate business will be able to do more than 15% yearly. I was more amazed at how they are able to scale to 200+ employees and 500 websites. Here we are struggling to scale to 20 websites.

Watching income store fall apart closely is teaching us a lot of lessons. The most important being, this business model doesn't scale to the levels Income Store tried to achieve. May be in the future, when there are as many websites as houses it will scale, but for now it just doesn't. We are making significant changes in our business strategy to not end up where Income store did, not in terms of losing others money but in terms of becoming insolvent.

Thanks to all the INSIDERS and investors for sharing their experience. It surely helped us to adjust our strategy of growth.
 

CareCPA

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
356%
May 2, 2017
976
3,479
35
Pennsylvania
Feeling really sorry for the loss of other investors. As MJ stated, I hope you recover emotionally if not financially.

I was burnt by a RE scheme in the past which led me to read (and re-read) Millionaire Fastlane in 2016.

After reading, I was so excited that I went to work on building a business seriously for the last few years. Many 80 hour weeks later, I now have a profitable business generating 6 figures a month.

I never knew that a fastlane forum existed . I only came across this forum last month in December because I heard of income store falling apart and my business is exactly same as income store. Except I don't take others money.

I build income generating sites mostly for myself. I did take investors money once, but been very scared to take more money since. Because in this business, finding good sites to buy is the bottleneck. Money is not. We are having a hard time putting the money we generated to good use back in the business. Finding good sites is so hard that we spend thousands of hours in finding and doing due diligence on new sites.

When I heard guaranteed 15% returns, it didn't sound surprising because 15% is definitely possible. I guess any legitimate business will be able to do more than 15% yearly. I was more amazed at how they are able to scale to 200+ employees and 500 websites. Here we are struggling to scale to 20 websites.

Watching income store fall apart closely is teaching us a lot of lessons. The most important being, this business model doesn't scale to the levels Income Store tried to achieve. May be in the future, when there are as many websites as houses it will scale, but for now it just doesn't. We are making significant changes in our business strategy to not end up where Income store did, not in terms of losing others money but in terms of becoming insolvent.

Thanks to all the INSIDERS and investors for sharing their experience. It surely helped us to adjust our strategy of growth.
Nice to see you joined.

I bet we could learn a lot about growing REAL income-generating sites if you're inclined to share some wisdom (but I'd put it in a new thread so it doesn't get intermixed with IS).
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

PapaGang

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
256%
Jul 10, 2019
637
1,632
Milwaukee, WI
"15% guaranteed."

Sometimes the scam is so overt, so obvious, that nothing else needs to be reviewed. As soon as I read that nonsense I knew it was a house of cards.

Hope anyone who fell for it gets out with minimal damage.

I didn't go to business school, but that was my red flag as well. Guaranteed?

Bruh...

Who green-lighted that marketing copy? Even I've heard of FINRA...

BTW, I've lost 5 figures on a get rich quick investment scheme, so I know how it feels to lose and get bamboozled.

I learned SO MUCH from that experience. I hope investors of IS get some sort of consolation. If nothing else, may it serve as fuel to fire your efforts to go UNSCRIPTED .
 
Last edited:

PapaGang

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
256%
Jul 10, 2019
637
1,632
Milwaukee, WI
I am a contractor for Income Store and they stopped paying us 4 weeks ago. We are owed tens of thousands of dollars. When we’ve asked for our pay we’ve been met with awful attitudes from the execs and owners. Kerry Courtright was particularly nasty. She threatened to sue one of us for slander and stalking. Nice lady.

There are more than 100 contractors in the SEO Content division. It’s lovely.
Jesus.
 

grohiit

New Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 8, 2020
6
14
Boise, ID
Nice to see you joined.

I bet we could learn a lot about growing REAL income-generating sites if you're inclined to share some wisdom (but I'd put it in a new thread so it doesn't get intermixed with IS).

Good to see you here as well.

Yes, happy to share the lessons learnt and scaling strategies for online assets in a separate thread. As I downshift and focus on other things (which is my 2020 goal), I am happy to help others on the forum.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

JasonR

Maverick
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
544%
May 29, 2012
2,102
11,425
Las Vegas
I posted this in another thread, I guess I should have posted it here:

Well low and behold - I just called this out as a likely scam in another thread.


Re: Securities and Exchange Commission v. Today’s Growth Consultant, Inc (dba “The Income Store”) and Kenneth D. Courtright, III, United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Civil Action No. 1:19-CV-08454
Date: January 6, 2020
Attached is a Temporary Restraining Order Freezing Assets and Imposing Other Emergency Relief and Order Appointing Receiver that have been entered in the above referenced matter.
The Court has determined that the appointment of a receiver is necessary and appropriate for the purposes of marshaling and preserving the books and records and all assets of Today’s Growth Consultant, Inc.
Within the next few days a website will be established that will provide court documents and other information regarding the case that will answer many of your questions. For additional information, you may contact the office of the Receiver at (305) 542-4410 or incomestore@dvllp.com.

You can download the Restraining Order and Order Appointing Receiver on the above link if you care to do so.

Guys - watch out, out there and use your common sense.
 

grohiit

New Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
233%
Jan 8, 2020
6
14
Boise, ID
So what's going to happen with all those sites now? Who is managing them?
Looks like no one is managing them. Some sites which have hosting etc due went down. Others are still online with no active management.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

transient

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
86%
Dec 5, 2019
7
6
Looks like no one is managing them. Some sites which have hosting etc due went down. Others are still online with no active management.

It's a really tough call. On the one hand they are supposed to be owned by the site partners but on the other hand the domains are in IS accounts and the hosting is on IS paid hosting. The receivership does seem to be making minimum required payments to not lose the assets but maintenance is not being done so they are losing value regardless. It's suggested that with ponzi schemes they claw back profits from early people to pay later people who have lost al of their money. If this is the case, the sites would have to be sold in order to distribute the money. That of course opens up the door to lots of lawsuits against the govt. I can't even imagine how they will deal with this without someone getting a bad deal.
 

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
So what's going to happen with all those sites now? Who is managing them?
[/QUOTE
Hopefully they go up for sale quickly with any real value converted to funds for the estate and transferred to parties that can realize on their true value.
 

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
It's a really tough call. On the one hand they are supposed to be owned by the site partners but on the other hand the domains are in IS accounts and the hosting is on IS paid hosting. The receivership does seem to be making minimum required payments to not lose the assets but maintenance is not being done so they are losing value regardless. It's suggested that with ponzi schemes they claw back profits from early people to pay later people who have lost al of their money. If this is the case, the sites would have to be sold in order to distribute the money. That of course opens up the door to lots of lawsuits against the govt. I can't even imagine how they will deal with this without someone getting a bad deal.

For early sites that were truly purchased with segregated funds and ownership recognized, I think those owners might have a chance at retention. But sites that were in fact purchased with pooled funds...that is pooled assets...became...pooled assets. Most likely they will remain pooled assets and sold for the benefit of the estate...where those pooled assets will be available for most site owners with worthless websites and distributed as part of any limited recovery.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,080
169,500
Utah
It's suggested that with ponzi schemes they claw back profits from early people to pay later people who have lost al of their money.

Oh boy, this will really screw those early adopters who said this was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now imagine the SEC coming after you and asking for $56,000 you received over the last 3 years.
 

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
Oh boy, this will really screw those early adopters who said this was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now imagine the SEC coming after you and asking for $56,000 you received over the last 3 years.

They are not going to claw back every single payment ever made. While they might have the power, the time and money to recover everything is NOT A WISE investment given the FACTS of where the case is today. While they also might have the power to y of ensure everyone gets 12 cents on the dollar or whatever, the time and money to ensure exact fairness in loss is NOT A WISE investment too.

Think in terms of representative cases / classes of relative degrees of losses:

Class 1: You got a winner site because you were part of the sham...any of those are on the table for complete claw backs. Example....a sales person.

Class 2: You got a winner site because you were in early when they actually did what they said they were doing. IF you recovered 90% of your investment, a case could be made to simple let that rest. If you recovered 150%, then perhaps a case could be made some portion of your win should be clawed back for sharing. OR much more likely, your site is sold for benefit of everyone.

Class 3: You never got a site or got a loser site but got a portion of minimum payments. You fall into the biggest representative class and share on equal terms with any limited recoveries of that class.

Class 4: You never recovered anything. You might fall in a class that recovers a slightly higher percentage than the main class.

You try to nudge the classes closer together.

It was a Ponzi scheme. No one is going to be whole. And everything is not going to be even steven too. Try to get a reasonable plan that gives some recognition to unequal treatment and tries to get MORE equal treatment...while recognizing that the best that can be done in this loser situations...is rough justice among the losers.

Ponzi is loser...everyone a loser...everyone a little recovery...recognizing reality of your position...but not equalizing any position. It just can't be better than that. If you are still grieving....complete that process...and reread.

Good luck!
 

transient

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
86%
Dec 5, 2019
7
6
For early sites that were truly purchased with segregated funds and ownership recognized, I think those owners might have a chance at retention. But sites that were in fact purchased with pooled funds...that is pooled assets...became...pooled assets. Most likely they will remain pooled assets and sold for the benefit of the estate...where those pooled assets will be available for most site owners with worthless websites and distributed as part of any limited recovery.

The SEC documentation suggests that the funds may have ALWAYS been pooled. Look at how few frozen accounts there are. If the assets are segregated there should be hundreds of accounts. I suspect this was mismanaged from the beginning.

Oh boy, this will really screw those early adopters who said this was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now imagine the SEC coming after you and asking for $56,000 you received over the last 3 years.

If that happens it is really going to be a boon to the people who would otherwise have lost a full 6 figures and have literally nothing to show for it other than a few $1500 payments. What happens though if one of those early investors had bad fortune and has no ability to repay? It just seems... wrong... to hold them accountable.

Also IF they decide to sell all the sites, who does the work? Those people will probably be relatively high rate individuals drawing from an already strained pool of money. There are loads and loads of websites and properly transferring those assets takes a lot of time for the seller and it takes LOADS of time for the buyer if done right. Also surely IS has sites that have no "owners". The process will probably take more than a year and during that time hosting and domain registration costs will need to be paid. Every site without ops staff will quickly become worthless. For a large percentage of sites I'd bet the most prudent action would be to cancel hosting and put the domains to auction. Any other action would likely cost more in paid skills, hosting, etc than they make.

It's all very interesting and challenging. I really don't envy whoever has to sort this out.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MakMac

New Contributor
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
76%
Jun 19, 2019
17
13
For a large percentage of sites I'd bet the most prudent action would be to cancel hosting and put the domains to auction. Any other action would likely cost more in paid skills, hosting, etc than they make.

It's all very interesting and challenging. I really don't envy whoever has to sort this out.

Agreed...most sites are losers. The best thing for losers...is stop the bleeding. Pull the plug as you suggest.

WE have heard that there are a few winners. Which might well be a complete lie. If so, pull the plug. But if some site is generating a $100,000 a month. That site might fetch $2,000,000 to $2,500,000 at market. AS you suggest, sell it quickly before lack of attentions further wastes value.

General rule...spend a little time evaluating...and then quickly realize best value on winners...and pull the plug on losers. No reason that shouldn't be done rather quickly other than the need for the court to sign off..but what is judge going to do....hold a hearing...and sign off.

Then you divide the marshaled assets among wrongful winners (full claw back), rightful winners (limited recovery), partial losers (base recovery) and total losers (enhanced recovery). It's not the first Ponzi...probably wont be the last. Terrible process for investors. But once everyone RETURNS to business on FULLY RATIONAL basis...the ONLY way home is not so unclear or complicated.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,080
169,500
Utah
Link to official SEC announcement that yes in fact, it was a Ponzi scheme.

 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top