I'm good at Sportsinvestment, but my capital is too low

[snowbank]

No offense but you don't understand what investing is.

Having exchanged a few emails him with, Wetti is substantially more knowledgeable about investing than you are. You've spent close to 2,000 posts providing little to no value, and showing no interest in learning things you don't understand.(that's 10,000+ minutes wasted just posting nonsense!) Trying to put someone down when you don't even understand what you are talking about is pretty pathetic. You're regurgitating illogical nonsense on things you admit to not even understand, yet instead of learning about it you claim everyone else is wrong but you.

You're that dude . The guy who says people can't do certain things, just because you don't know how to do them. The same type of person who says, "80% of businesses fail, don't start a business. That's way too risky." I'm not going to waste time explaining logic and math to you since you aren't interested in learning and are being a fool, but hopefully for your own sake you wake up and realize you don't know very much, and it'd be more productive to learn, rather than being that dude.

The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates

 

[sharky]

Wetti,
One of the crazy things about trying to find capital for your business is that when you really need it, nobody wants to give it to you, and believe me the smart money investors can sense any type of desperation. Then when you don’t need the money it seems like everyone wants to throw money your way because you have proven that are successful.
You say that you do EVERYTHING to reach investors, but what specifically have you done? Can you be more specific here? How about starting a blog revolving around your picks, specifically track every bet that you’ve made and post the bets and the outcomes for people to review. Maybe talk about why you are picking certain bets so you can align people with your thinking. If the blog proves to get traction then perhaps you start charging a subscription. If people are making money on your predictions by betting on what you are suggesting then you will build a loyal following, which will ultimately lead to the investors you may need. And in the meantime, you may discover that because your track record is so good, that you have developed loyal followers who are willing to pay you for your bets in the form of monthly/weekly/yearly subscriptions.

 

[CommonCents]

How much money can you put to work? Would you bet the same way betting others money as your own?

If you saved 10K every year from your other jobs to bet, and got your lower return of 20% every year interest just compounded once a year you'd have nearly 400k at the end of 10 yrs.

Investors would want to see your system and your track record. Start with friends and family, as your character would count for more with them.

Here is low low cost idea. Start a blog/website and post your picks and let others see your accuracy. If you are that good, forget betting your own money or anyone elses, you'd be able to sell your weekly picks to thousands of people for big money via subscriptions, 900 hotlines etc....

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Start a blog/website and post your picks and let others see your accuracy.

That truly is the way to scale this ... you could make far more if your picks have accuracy.

I know if I was a regular bettor and your picks had a winnable track record, I'd pay. You could even limit your subscriptions to 10,000 people. (10,000 subscribers X $29/mo is $290,000/mo ... is that Fastlane? YES SIR!)

 

[snowbank]

Not to sound like an old man, but gambling is entertainment (nothing wrong with that), but it's hardly a legitimate business strategy. (unless you're the gambling house getting a cut of the volume!

WestCoast- It's usually not a good strategy to comment on things as fact if you have no knowledge on them, rather than doing due diligence on them to find out if what you naturally assume as true, is or isn't.

In general, if a lot of people assume that something can't be done, there is usually much more money available to be made for those willing to do the due diligence because there is less competition.

The statement you made is the equivalent of telling everyone "don't invest in the stock market, the economy is terrible" because you heard a guy say it on the evening news.

 

[Wetti]

Hi Rickson, thank you.

You know its really hard work and if you sit arround 6 years now , everyday after your school/job infront of the Pc to do something which you really like and you are good at, to make it to your fulltime job than it is really hard and you want to see profit. But with low capital the profit is also low , sure 30-60% profit a year is really good. But if you have a bank of 5000 or 10000 than it is only 1500 or 3000€ a year and that stands in no relation to the time you have invested ;-)

Thats why i'm searching for more capital and wanted to know where i can find the right people.

 

[biophase]

Investors don't gamble they bet on sure things. At the end of the day unless you can predict the outcome of the games with a high level of certainty which is impossible or at best illegal you will not build a fortune over time at this.

No offense but you don't understand what investing is. I don't gamble, bet or whatever you want to call it. To me it sounds like your hedging your risk by spreading it over a bunch of bets. That would be a lot smarter and safer than betting on one team to win one game. However at the end of the day even though you can do research on the teams you are not 100% sure what team will win. In other words lets break it down to the most basic, one of your 1k bets on one game. You have at best a 50/50 chance of picking the correct team, maybe with some research you can bump this up a bit. This is actually very smiler to how most people invest in the stock market and, they don't make jack doing it. Its like a labor intensive 401K.

Investing is quite different, when you invest you don't put a dime of your money out until you know you will get a return. The return can very a bit, but you know unless something horrible goes wrong you will get a return. For example when I buy a parcel of property I already know what I can get for a house on it, I won't buy it if I don't. I also know what its going to cost me to build, what the city will let me do, and all the details that can cost me money. So when i write the check for the property my money is already made, I just need to execute. Could things go wrong? Sure, that's life, but not 50% of the time, maybe .o1%.

Wow, I can't think of a more opposite way to think about investing. Investors bet on sure things? How do you use the word "investor", "bet" and "sure things" in the same sentence? Seriously??? Each of those 3 words cannot be farther apart from each other. I really think that it is you who doesn't understand the definition of investing.

If what you said is true you would have a ton of money right now. If only everyone can put money into a something with a 99.99% success rate as you put it.

I mean you are basically saying that stocks and mutual funds are not investing. But your own example of investing is the exact same. Let me ask you this:

Let's say that you found a lot as in your example above and can build a home and sell it for more profit. You need $50k to buy the lot and build the home.

1) You put up your own $50k and build the home. - Who is the investor? Who has the risk?
2) You go to a bank and they loan you the $50k at 8%. - Who is the investor? Who has the risk? Is their risk 0.01%?
3) You sell 50 shares of stock at $1k for 50% of the project - Who is the investor? Who has the risk? Is their risk 0.01%?

Here are my answers.

1) Not you. This is a business. You are self employed and running a home building company. You assume all the risk.
2) The bank is the investor. They invested $50k for a 8% return. They assume all the risk for a mere 8% return.
3) The stock holders are investors. But according to you they hardly make jack doing it. How can this be if the risk is 0.01% to them? How do they fail?

This is the same project you put forth as an example broken down into a few investment levels. How is #1 a sure thing but #3 a losers play?

 

[Wetti]

It is really scary that Lighthouse and exon cant even read, but maybe they are just drunk .I hope its secondly.


I did not tell a single word about searching Investors in this forum. The only thing i wanted to know here was : where can i find investors and how can i get contact to these people.


That Snowbank will put money up if he thinks that i have an edge. Is a very good offer. I'm really happy about it.But it was his free decision.

 

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[bflbob]

He! He! I'm liking this!

So, you are a gambler if you bet on things. In that sense, a casino is a gambler. It doesn't matter that the odds are in their favor. If Wetti is a gambler, then it stands to reason that the folks he gambles with are gamblers, too.

He thinks he has the favored odds. The casino thinks they do. Obviously, they can't both be right.

So, if I buy shares of stock in a casino, am I a gambler, or an investor?

If I buy them in IBM, am I an investor, or a gambler?

If I bought a sure thing, such as Enron, am I an investor, or a gambler?

My position is that Wetti would have been an investor in each case. And that is because he lives in a systematized world. He wouldn't have lost his life savings in Enron. He would have lost a few percent of his savings. He wouldn't make a fortune in IBM. He would have made a few percent. His risk would be spread over a large number of "bets".

A gambler bets based on a feeling, or blind draw. An investor knows his odds, even if it is only a .5% advantage, and uses them to his advantage. Wetti (and, of course, Snowbank) sounds like he knows his odds.

Can you win on a system that loses 99 times out of 100? You can, if the winner pays odds of 101:1 and you have enough funds to weather the storm of losers. That is what Wetti and Snowbank know.

 

[minamo]

I used to be in the gambling genre.

I know it is not luck, and i also know learned(the hard way) that you need a good bankroll management.

You should have at least 20 times the amount you bet on each match to catch up good and bad runs, everyone goes unlucky sometimes, The key is to make it profitable in the long run.

My advice: play lower, grind it out, bet on multiple matches, and use your profits to slowly grind up to the higher levels.

No one makes it to the top in 1 day.

Henk.

 

[Wetti]

Hi Ladys and Gentleman,

I'm since 6 years in the sportsbetting buisness, some of you might think its just luck and noone can make profit out of it longterm , but you are wrong. Sportbetting is a market like the stockbuisness YOU CAN MAKE GOOD MONEY OUT OF IT !

And i do, as the sportsbetting market is easier to beat as the stockmarket, because you most of the time play not against the best of the best.

So what can i say, i made since 4 years every year arround 20-60% Profit out of sportsbetting.

I have a Moneymanagment System, i have a risk-managment system , i have a system to beat the ahc lines in 57% of the times in my leagues. ( which means longtime profit as most of the lines do have odds arround 2.2-1.8)

I work arround everyday 4 hours besides my job on it, but what can i say. My capital is too low. As i'm only 21 ( yes i started at the age of 15 ! ) my bank only is 10.000€ at the moment,all money i made from betting. I started with 1000€ at the age of 15.


But what can i say? I dont like my normal job and i want to do Sportsinvestment fulltime, but my capital is too low.


Now i need your help. I want to get Investors into my idea, but i do not know how to find them as most people think that sportsbetting has something to do with luck and if you tell most people about profits from 20-60% a year in general, they think its scam.


How i can find the right people ? I have no Idea

 

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[Luke12321]

You know how people always say, "Well, if you are so good at investing why don't you use your own money to invest and get started"?

Well, that is what I am telling you essentially.

If you SO good at investing in this niche market, why not go work two full-time jobs. Save one check, live off the other. Save a few months up, then start investing the funds in sportsbetting. Then you can quit the second job and make a ton of money, right?

Why go online begging for others money when you have been doing this for years? If I was this confidence with investing in something, I wouldn't have waiting years to go online to a message board to ask for money.

You aren't going to get it here. If you aren't a spammer, good luck. If you are, then I just wasted a few minutes of my life.:coco:

 

[snowbank]

What leagues are you betting? If you can send me a detailed analysis of what you're betting along with the reports tracking your last 4 years I'll put money up if I think that you have an edge. Also please let me know what type of software you're using.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What leagues are you betting? If you can send me a detailed analysis of what you're betting along with the reports tracking your last 4 years I'll put money up if I think that you have an edge. Also please let me know what type of software you're using.

That's a serious offer that should be seriously considered Wetti!

 

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[WestCoast]

This reminds me of an effective e-mail con:


A con artist sends 1000 e-mails to gamblers with a pick for a winner of an upcoming game.
The con sends 500 people the pick of Team A to win, the other 500 people are told Team B.

Based on whichever team actually wins, the con now has 500 people who got the pick from this guy.

Now they repeat, this time just to the 500 people who got the e-mail with the winner in week 1.
The the 500 'winners' are divided again, 250 again getting an e-mail saying Team A will win, the other 250 are told Team B will win.


At the end of two picks, just at random, there are 250 people who think that two weeks in a row, you correctly picked the winner of these games.


Repeat this for 5weeks total and you end up with roughly 25 people who you randomly gave the correct picks to 5 weeks in a row. That might peak their interest a bit, no?


"Hey water cooler friend, this guy picked the game winner five weeks in a row! He must have some new system or some INSIDERS info, let's put some money down on his next pick"


By the power of basic math, the con looks smart to a select few and these 25 people (with 5 weeks in a row of winning picks as hard evidence!) are ready to be fleeced.


This is the power of large numbers and basic math.

--
Not to sound like an old man, but gambling is entertainment (nothing wrong with that), but it's hardly a legitimate business strategy or 'investing'. (unless you're the gambling house getting a cut of the volume!)

 

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[nipsid]

This reminds me of an effective e-mail con program:


1000 random people are sent an e-mail that 'picks' a the winner of a weekend football game. The sender sends 500 of the people e-mails that pick one of the two teams, the other 500 people get the same e-mail picking the other team.

At the end of the week, 500 people look at the results of the game and say... hey, this guy got it right.


The next week, those 500 people who got the 'winner' get another e-mail picking the winner of a random game the next week. Again, half are randomly told one team will win, the other half are told the other team will win.

At the end of week two, you've got 250 people who are very curious

Now repeat this a few more weeks. By basic math, you're going to


After about 5 weeks, to the 25 people who randomly were assigned the winner picks each week, you are looking like HOT STUFF!! 5 picks in a row of winners!!! WOW, this guy must have INSIDERS info!!!


After that, you could probably sell them any sports pick for the next week and they would buy in.

Homer fell for it

[video=vimeo;15414792]http://vimeo.com/15414792[/video]

 

[Wetti]

First of all, thank you for your responses.


To the ones who think that only the bookmaker is making money out of betting, just think of the following:

Bookmakers DO NOT estimate the chances of Team to win the game, Bookmakers also estimate what the PEOPLE will think and bet, so they not really care of the true chances for the outcoming of a certain event and that is the chance you have!

To say it very easy: you just have to know the real estimations for the outcomes of a game and you win longterm.

This is surely not easy, but it can be made. And i learned really the first two years of my " career" arround 6 hours a day besides school from a guy who told me the " Value-Investment Strategy for betting "



@snowbank

I will sent you everything by pm , but only have stats from the last 3 years from me.



here you all can see a "public" biography from me:

Tipster "Christian Feuring" - Football tipsters expert on Germany



@ Luke, with 2 jobs , i cant continue betting and i can not stay up to date. Also in germany you need for nearly every job new education.

 

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[x9vjzs098u123rnl]

What leagues are you betting? If you can send me a detailed analysis of what you're betting along with the reports tracking your last 4 years I'll put money up if I think that you have an edge. Also please let me know what type of software you're using.

I saw this thread title and instantly thought of you, especially because you were showing me what staking was.

 

[veli]

Dear Wetti,
First off all let me congratulate you on getting 1k euros til 10k! It shows that you possess what I would say is vital in this (and most other businesses), DISCIPLINE!
However, I am a bit curious about a couple of things.
You write that you have both risk and money management, which is good. But, since you started out six years ago, have you increased your betsize? I mean, is one unit to you equal today as it was 6 years ago? Or are you too afraid to go one step higher with your own money (risk too high?)?
Lets say you (not sure how many times you put in a bet during a week/month, but with all the matches going on in the German top 3 divisions I would assume it would be possible to find 2-3 bets a week at least. Lets say 1k is one unit, and you only use 1 unit on your bets, it would mean you would bet approx 80k-120k a year. With a ROI of 4% that would increase your bankroll to 3k-5k a year, which, granted, is not enough to live on in Germany. But I would like to know more about how many bets/size etc, if you care to share.
PS: What about limitations once you put in higher stakes, are you sure you wont be limited by your bookie(s)? I tried out a system earlier this year, being up about 5k euros, but after that I had trouble putting in higher stakes. (Bookies will gladly take your money as long as you are losing, but once you start winning they will not think twice about putting limits on your bets).
Keep up the good work!

 

[Wetti]

I'm only using flat stake, means every single game i bet on , i bet with the same stake which means 2% of my total bank. If I lost 25% of my bank i calculate down, if i'm 25% up with my bank, i calculate my stake up.

Example 10.000€ * 2% = 200€ each bet , if down to 7500 than *2% = 150€ each bet. If up to 12.500*2% = 250€ each bet .


limitation is no problem for me. I have well connection to asian bookmakers and sportsbetting brokers.

Also with stakes up to 5000€ a bet you have no problems in staking. After that you need the connections to sportsbrokers in asia. With them it is no problem to stake arround 100.000€ on a single bet in germany first league and arround 30.000€-50.000€ in second and third league. I'm glad to have these contacts already.

The only think i need now, is more capital


You can also see some of my stats here:

http://www.bettingexpert.com/de/nutzer/Wetti07

 

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[Rickson9]

This thread is fascinating to me!

 

[veli]

Wetti,
Have you ever thought about altering your stake from 2% to say 3 or maybe even 4%? Maybe you could do some back testing on it, and see if your bank roll can take the swings?

 

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[Wetti]

Hi veli,

yes i thought of it and even try it with 3% but let me say, its not that easy to manage as a 2% stake. With a stake of 2% you have 50 stakes, with 3% only 33stakes and with 4% you come up to 25stakes.

That is very less and you often have to recalculate your bank ,otherwise you have the chance, even very low, to go broke.

And sure if you want a bit more risk, you can grow your stakes, but for me it is investment. And i more likely have only "30-60%" secure profit in a year, than 200% but inculding the chance to go broke. But i agree that this is a thing of mentality.


Here you can see that loosing streaks can and do happen, its a mathematical thing: Binomial Distribution and You

 

[CommonCents]

Why aren't you selling hundreds or thousands of subscriptions to your picks? You don't need much capital for that and can rack up a big bank roll in a hurry.

 

[Wetti]

Why aren't you selling hundreds or thousands of subscriptions to your picks? You don't need much capital for that and can rack up a big bank roll in a hurry.

I work for owners from that kind of sites who also spend lots of money to advertisment ( talking about 10K-90K€ ). But i saw their subscriptions and i must say hundreds or thousands is far from reality. I dont know why, but betting for most of the people is luck and scam.

 

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[WestCoast]

WestCoast- It's usually not a good strategy to comment on things as fact if you have no knowledge on them, rather than doing due diligence on them to find out if what you naturally assume as true, is or isn't.

In general, if a lot of people assume that something can't be done, there is usually much more money available to be made for those willing to do the due diligence because there is less competition.

The statement you made is the equivalent of telling everyone "don't invest in the stock market, the economy is terrible" because you heard a guy say it on the evening news.

*shrug*

I think you have read a bit much into what I said. I'm not making a moral stand on gambling or telling you guys you are bad people and crazy for gambling.

This guy is a gambler looking for money.

That's fine, and I'm sure there are ways to make money gambling. It doesn't change the fact that he is a gambler looking for money to make larger bets.

That's not a business opportunity, that's a bet.

I just called a spade a spade and tried to interject a bit of reality into the discussion.

 

[hatterasguy]

Well while kind of interesting this is still gambling.

Investors don't gamble they bet on sure things. At the end of the day unless you can predict the outcome of the games with a high level of certainty which is impossible or at best illegal you will not build a fortune over time at this.

I'd recommend directing your efforts to investing.

 

[snowbank]

That truly is the way to scale this ... you could make far more if your picks have accuracy.

I know if I was a regular bettor and your picks had a winnable track record, I'd pay. You could even limit your subscriptions to 10,000 people. (10,000 subscribers X $29/mo is $290,000/mo ... is that Fastlane? YES SIR!)

Why aren't you selling hundreds or thousands of subscriptions to your picks? You don't need much capital for that and can rack up a big bank roll in a hurry.

The reason this won't work is because every certain amount that is bet, the line will change. If the line changes, what you should be betting can change. So, if everyone bet on one side, it would then be correct to bet on the other side of the action. So, basically, your customers who were there just to listen to what you said, instead of understanding why they were betting what they were betting, would all lose money in the long term, instead of making it.(almost impossible not to with the vig) The people who would make money would be the people who bet first, theoretically.

It all depends on the size of the betting market to the size of bets the people are making, but basically there would have to be few enough customers to where the lines wouldn't be changed enough to make them unprofitable.(no idea what the size is for the league he's betting)

 

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[snowbank]

Investors don't gamble they bet on sure things. At the end of the day unless you can predict the outcome of the games with a high level of certainty which is impossible or at best illegal you will not build a fortune over time at this.

I'd recommend directing your efforts to investing.

I'm sure there are ways to make money gambling. It doesn't change the fact that he is a gambler looking for money to make larger bets.

That's not a business opportunity, that's a bet.

you guys are just saying things without speaking with any logic.

hatterasguy, you realize I could strategically do nothing but "gamble" and have a lower risk of ruin than your "investing" that you say you should do, while producing a higher return. do you know why?

which is impossible or at best illegal

lol

 

[snowbank]

At the end of the day if you are making money at something I have no knowledge about or don't understand, it is impossible or at best illegal

..

fyp