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NOTABLE! If I can't start a successful business, should I just buy one?

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If you want to buy a business, read this book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078SQFQX7/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

Buying a profitable business may seem like a shortcut, but it's still difficult. If you buy the right business and the owner offers post-sale support and teaches you how to run it properly (or stays as a consultant), it can be a good opportunity to learn. If not, you may lose a lot of money.
 

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But there is no incentive for a Money-Chaser to not care what somebody likes. Even if someone is a money-chaser, there is incentive for him/her to make a good product that provides value because those are the ones that sell and make money. I guess it was for this reason that I never saw money chasing as bad, because you are incentivized to create value. If you don't, then you won't make money.

Back to the basic T-shirt example, I made that design because I thought people would actually like it and see value in it. I didn't just arbitrarily stick random designs on it and blast ads. I didn't go, oh let me just make this design and blast ads and say "Oh who cares if they like it?"

I really don't think anyone in the world money chaser or not creates products intentionally that do not provide value. All the products that don't sell are created by people with the assumption that they provide value.
My view on this is difficult to articulate.

Would I be doing everything I am doing just for charity? Just to add value without a potential to make money? No. One of whys is financial independence, for me and my son. Which implies $.

I learned along the way that shifting my mentality from going after money to going after value is the best way to achieve it.

When I subscribed to this forum, I was a pure money chaser. Just looking for ways to make value. Two things happened in a few months that made me switch to focusing on finding ways to offer value.

Since then, the way I see things, the ideas I find, the way I think about ideas changed. And that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to the potential of making profit. I do. But this is no longer my primary filter.

But that's me.

At the end, it comes down to whether you give people things they perceive of value. Be it because of the products itself or the way you market it.
 
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My view on this is difficult to articulate.

Would I be doing everything I am doing just for charity? Just to add value without a potential to make money? No. One of whys is financial independence, for me and my son. Which implies $.

I learned along the way that shifting my mentality from going after money to going after value is the best way to achieve it.

When I subscribed to this forum, I was a pure money chaser. Just looking for ways to make value. Two things happened in a few months that made me switch to focusing on finding ways to offer value.

Since then, the way I see things, the ideas I find, the way I think about ideas changed. And that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to the potential of making profit. I do. But this is no longer my primary filter.

But that's me.

At the end, it comes down to whether you give people things they perceive of value. Be it because of the products itself or the way you market it.
I guess I just desire freedom so damn much it causes me to focus on money all the time. I am caged for the majority of the day. I spend most of the day doing things against my will, but gotta make ends meet and have enough money for all my trials or I will be trapped for life. Money is the key to these handcuffs. The market just never seems to find any value in anything I produce.
 

johnp

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haha 3-4 years at this is nothing.

From the sound of things. I wouldn't be surprised if you have an issue with your:

a) offer(s)
b) positioning
c) mindset

Fix those three things and you'll gain traction faster than you think.

with that said... I do think a case can be made for buying a business instead of starting-up from scratch. Not as a shortcut though.
 

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The market just never seems to find any value in anything I produce.
Back to the mindset thing. This sentence is backwards. The market comes first. For instance, I know there is a shortage of new houses in my area...so I built a business to provide those houses. This is MUCH different than "I'm building a house, I hope somebody likes/buys it!"

Another way to look at it: You set up a booth at a popular beach. Would you rather sell your famous homemade ice cream or $3 cheapo sunglasses like the other 3 vendors? Which has Scale and Control?

I challenge you to change your way of thinking. That is what is holding you back.
 

W. Sabria

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I'd really like to see what some of these t-shirts look like.
Can you share a link? The curiosity is killing me!
 

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Many business start without having any email lists or data. The main thing that you don't seem to get yet is that nobody wanted the product that you were selling. It's as simple as that. You point to all the stores for sale on Shopify's site and you don't understand how they are making money. Are these stores tricking everyone into buying their things?

You are still confused on what value is. You say your tshirts provide value, but the market is saying no. I'm not a cat person, so if you gave me your tshirt I'd probably use it to dry off my car. Is that value? No.

However, if someone likes your cat tshirt and proudly wears it out, then it is of value to that person. You haven't found that person yet OR that person doesn't exist.

The market is never wrong, it is the market, it's never confusing, you just don't understand it yet.
 

Real Deal Denver

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Many business start without having any email lists or data. The main thing that you don't seem to get yet is that nobody wanted the product that you were selling. It's as simple as that. You point to all the stores for sale on Shopify's site and you don't understand how they are making money. Are these stores tricking everyone into buying their things?

You are still confused on what value is. You say your tshirts provide value, but the market is saying no. I'm not a cat person, so if you gave me your tshirt I'd probably use it to dry off my car. Is that value? No.

However, if someone likes your cat tshirt and proudly wears it out, then it is of value to that person. You haven't found that person yet OR that person doesn't exist.

The market is never wrong, it is the market, it's never confusing, you just don't understand it yet.
^^^ THIS!

The market is never wrong. Marketing 101 through 701 combined in that one statement.

So you had a tshirt of a cat lifting weights? And you can't figure out why it didn't sell? I can. It's dumb. I'm not a cat person, but I know many people that are, and they think cats are cute and clever. Sometimes funny in their own innocent way. There you go - those are the attributes cat lovers love. Lifting weights makes, um, no sense.

So, knowing rule #1 - the market is never wrong - drop it and move on.

If you're hung up on cats, I vaguely remember a porn cartoon about cats. This is the most unexciting and uninteresting kind of porn I can imagine, so I don't have any input to how that movie went. BUT I do remember seeing the female cats that looked very seductive, and the male "star" cat, wearing a fedora with one fang hanging out - not two, just one - with a smirk on his face. I remember that because I study and appreciate art. That was from maybe 30-40 years ago, but I still remember it. I thought it was clever to use cats as the characters instead of people.

So there you go. You can make a "pimp" type cat with a fedora, flipping a coin in one hand, and resting his other hand on his hip - saying "Whaz Up?" Now, I wouldn't buy that, but I think it would be ten times more interesting than your design of a cat lifting weights. Cat lovers are weird people - that might just hit a nerve with them and they might buy it. At least it makes "some" sense.

Get OVER a product that doesn't launch. The market is NEVER wrong.

I've had things I've done in business that didn't sell - and I've done them on purpose. Rather than have someone decide IF they like a product or not, I'd rather have them CHOOSE which product they like the best. Having something really cheap makes other things look better -and having something really high priced makes other things look like more of a bargain. Psychology 201.

How do I know all this stuff? I put MYSELF in the place of the customer, and try to figure out why I like, or don't like something. Then I fix it. You could have a series of cat images - one running - one high jumping - one going over a ski lift - and THEN maybe your weight lifting cat MIGHT fit in.

But if it doesn't - after a good healthy trial run - take it behind the barn and SHOOT it. Then, move on.

Not enough of the world loves cats. How about horses? I'm not a horse person, but I like horses 100 times more than I like cats. Now that I think about it - who DOESN'T love horses? Nobody!

Foooood for thought. So much good advice here. You just have to break that "first love" connection with your idea and let it die. But, I would try the "series" of cats Olympics thing first, before giving up.

Fritz the Cat.JPG

Found it - Fritz the Cat (1972)
 
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MJ DeMarco

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You're money chasing.
No mention of product, no mention of value attributes, no mention of value skew, no mention of value arrays, no USP, no solution oriented position.... just "I want to make $5K through digital market" -- the product comes before the business-model, you don't take a business-model and plug a product into it. That's run of the mill "IM" and bro-marketing, IOW, money chasing.

So yes, maybe you should look into buying a business that has already verified a demand for their offering beyond "I spent $10K in FB ads and made $12K in sales and $200 in profit..."

But this solves only ONE problem...

What if the new problem is: "I just bought a business and it has had declining sales for 9 straight months, what should I do! I paid $X thousands for it and haven't broken even yet!"
 

ZCP

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do both.

buy a business that is making a little money. improve it. sell it. ...... hell of a lot to learn there. great experience. start an insider thread. tag me in it. we'll come help.

while doing that, work on your own business. get customers. find a market. improve a product. get it up and going. go through MJ's steps in Unscripted. maybe keep that going in this thread.

both will help you improve your mindset. both will give you experience. both give you fastlane avenues.

staying where you are is not an option. get to work.
 
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^^^ THIS!

The market is never wrong. Marketing 101 through 701 combined in that one statement.

So you had a tshirt of a cat lifting weights? And you can't figure out why it didn't sell? I can. It's dumb. I'm not a cat person, but I know many people that are, and they think cats are cute and clever. Sometimes funny in their own innocent way. There you go - those are the attributes cat lovers love. Lifting weights makes, um, no sense.

So, knowing rule #1 - the market is never wrong - drop it and move on.

If you're hung up on cats, I vaguely remember a porn cartoon about cats. This is the most unexciting and uninteresting kind of porn I can imagine, so I don't have any input to how that movie went. BUT I do remember seeing the female cats that looked very seductive, and the male "star" cat, wearing a fedora with one fang hanging out - not two, just one - with a smirk on his face. I remember that because I study and appreciate art. That was from maybe 30-40 years ago, but I still remember it. I thought it was clever to use cats as the characters instead of people.

So there you go. You can make a "pimp" type cat with a fedora, flipping a coin in one hand, and resting his other hand on his hip - saying "Whaz Up?" Now, I wouldn't buy that, but I think it would be ten times more interesting than your design of a cat lifting weights. Cat lovers are weird people - that might just hit a nerve with them and they might buy it. At least it makes "some" sense.

Get OVER a product that doesn't launch. The market is NEVER wrong.

I've had things I've done in business that didn't sell - and I've done them on purpose. Rather than have someone decide IF they like a product or not, I'd rather have them CHOOSE which product they like the best. Having something really cheap makes other things look better -and having something really high priced makes other things look like more of a bargain. Psychology 201.

How do I know all this stuff? I put MYSELF in the place of the customer, and try to figure out why I like, or don't like something. Then I fix it. You could have a series of cat images - one running - one high jumping - one going over a ski lift - and THEN maybe your weight lifting cat MIGHT fit in.

But if it doesn't - after a good healthy trial run - take it behind the barn and SHOOT it. Then, move on.

Not enough of the world loves cats. How about horses? I'm not a horse person, but I like horses 100 times more than I like cats. Now that I think about it - who DOESN'T love horses? Nobody!

Foooood for thought. So much good advice here. You just have to break that "first love" connection with your idea and let it die. But, I would try the "series" of cats Olympics thing first, before giving up.

View attachment 20640

Found it - Fritz the Cat (1972)
Just so you know, I made the design based on objective sales data, not based on my own intuition because I know its doesn't matter what I like. It only matters if the market likes it. If a shirt has objective data proving sales.

Anyways, when I ran the facebook ad. I got a few comments, like "OMG I need to have this", "I'm going to buy this" and...nobody did. This also happened with a product I did years ago as well. People commenting that they actually bought it, but nobody ever did. But yeah, abandoning this.

do both.

buy a business that is making a little money. improve it. sell it. ...... hell of a lot to learn there. great experience. start an insider thread. tag me in it. we'll come help.

while doing that, work on your own business. get customers. find a market. improve a product. get it up and going. go through MJ's steps in Unscripted. maybe keep that going in this thread.

both will help you improve your mindset. both will give you experience. both give you fastlane avenues.

staying where you are is not an option. get to work.
Been really browsing some more of these websites and I can't get myself to purchase them. I am blown how bad these websites are and they actually get sales. I could swear they are all fudging numbers. The funny thing is that I have tried selling the same products as some of these guys years ago. If that is the case, then I never really had a product problem. I kept talking about ads in the OP because that is what I think my problem is. But everyone telling me that I have a product problem. If others are selling the same product and actually making it, then the problem should be my ad targeting. I have tried various interest based targeting. Might buy just for experimentation.

Some of these websites are playing a dangerous game and looks like they are mostly getting their sales off IP infringement and knock offs.

EDIT: Another thing I noticed with these businesses that are based off instagram is that everything seems very organic. No hashtags on any of their posts, but hundreds of likes and real people. It seems that adding hashtags on instagram just attracts bots. Every time I have tried to build and insta page for a new venture, I just get responses from people obviously running a bot. I never get real people through instagram. Same with facebook, I target first world countries and get some guy probably from a clickfarm liking my ads, even though he isn't through my targeted country.

I am saying this here because I guess the algos aren't in my favor? I have sold on eBay for a longtime and I know right away when the algos are in my favor. There are rare times, when eBay will literally shit on my listing so bad and I have to keep making a new one because I know the algos destroyed it. I am thinking due to all my previous ventures, maybe I permanently destroyed my facebook account.
 

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ZCP

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buy a non internet business. hit craigslist and the local ads. you want $x/mo, right. start getting portions of $x.

get out of 'this world is keeping me down' spiral. start making progress.
 
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buy a non internet business. hit craigslist and the local ads. you want $x/mo, right. start getting portions of $x.

get out of 'this world is keeping me down' spiral. start making progress.
Hm...in this day an age, it seems that if you aren't online, you're pretty much irrelevant. Also, I don't see how this will help me getting a non-internet business when my goal is to build a successful internet business at $5k/month. These brick-mortar stores are expensive, like 200k just for a grocery store or something.
 

ZCP

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Seems you have all the answers then. Surely I wouldn't suggest a path that I had already walked or had helped others walk as well.

You've owned multiple businesses both on and offline. You've bought and sold businesses. You are currently running several now. Even your school age kids are running several.

In your vast experience, the ONLY way to get to $5k/mo is to be online w/ Facebook ads or have $200k for a grocery store.

To sum up your thread: to be successful, completely ignore all advice given, especially if given by people who have already done what you are trying to do.
 
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Seems you have all the answers then. Surely I wouldn't suggest a path that I had already walked or had helped others walk as well.

You've owned multiple businesses both on and offline. You've bought and sold businesses. You are currently running several now. Even your school age kids are running several.

In your vast experience, the ONLY way to get to $5k/mo is to be online w/ Facebook ads or have $200k for a grocery store.

To sum up your thread: to be successful, completely ignore all advice given, especially if given by people who have already done what you are trying to do.
Online businesses are more affordable for a poor sap like me. I mean probably you can afford some $200k+ business, but I can't at this moment. $200k was the low end for offline business. I am not ignoring your advice, it just isn't practical for me. Going that much in debt with a business would be lifelong handcuffs. I am also all towards online because I can't even remember when was the last time I went to a store or gave my attention to an offline advertisement. Magazines, billboards, storefront table? I feel like it is a step backwards. It may be profitable now, but not for the foreseeable future. I also wanted location freedom.
 

ZCP

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Ok, let's switch it up. Where have you looked for businesses?

As just one example, my kids took the profits from one business and put about $4k into a vending route we found on Craigslist. They work a half day one Saturday every 4 to 6 weeks and clear about $500 profit per month. Even after paying $100 for someone to drive one of them around because they are not old enough to drive.

Time to shed these limiting beliefs. Switch 'why can't I' to 'how can I'.
 

ZCP

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One final thing, think about going back through this thread and reading it from our perspective. Trying to help you. Have already been down this path and know it is possible.

Open you mind. Your limiting beliefs and assumptions make you come across as a know it all jackass.

Quit finding excuses and quit giving up after trying something for 5 minutes or looking in one place.

If you want $10k/mo, open your mind. Provide value or find the cash flowing investment. Even better, do both.
 

njsinko

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You've got to find a pain somewhere, and fix it in a way nobody else can or has. It takes big money to break into a competitive business like t-shirts. Companies invest millions in marketing to get a new company like that off the ground. It's too competitive to be done with a shoestring budget.

You need to go in somewhere where you have a pain that needs solving, and where you have very little competition. E-commerce is tough to break into unless you have cash to invest. Remember, you shouldn't try to out walmart walmart.

There are a lot of online t-shirt stores out there with big marketing budgets that will CRUSH you into the ground if you try to make a move on them or get into their space.

For instance - try to do one thing that is super unique that nobody else is doing. Years ago I thought it would be cool to start on online tshirt retailer that only produced one type of shirt - Black, and only with text on it. One font, one size. You type what you want it to say in a box, and it's sent to you.

Nothing else but custom text printed on a shirt.
 
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Everyone, I have decided it wasn't the question of buying or starting from scratch. I have just been wasting time putsing around in these low value, low impact businesses. Thanks for insight.
 

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I've marked this NOTABLE because it is a great example of why people never succeed.

Notice how what's going on in someone's head AFFECTS the business selection and its execution.

Notice how @MakeMoreMoves has an excuse for everything, or a reason why such "given advice" is to be discounted.

Notice how things are tried, but not really committed to.

Notice how money, and quick results is the priority, not a legitimate value skew based on relative value.

Observe and learn.
 

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The market is never wrong, it is the market, it's never confusing, you just don't understand it yet.
introduction to ken's new book lol
 

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I've marked this NOTABLE because it is a great example of why people never succeed.

Notice how what's going on in someone's head AFFECTS the business selection and its execution.

Notice how @MakeMoreMoves has an excuse for everything, or a reason why such "given advice" is to be discounted.

Notice how things are tried, but not really committed to.

Notice how money, and quick results is the priority, not a legitimate value skew based on relative value.

Observe and learn.
I concur with that common saying. Positive mindset is golden in any undertaking as it will yield positive results. And a positive perception to any positive advice is value.
 

Sebastya

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I would buy a struggling business and see where you can add some value and then resell it.

I used to do that a long time ago, buying ugly/underoptimized sites on DigitalPoint marketplace but they had good traffic and after some marketing and redesign could resell them on Flippa for a decent profit.
 

ChrisV

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I've marked this NOTABLE because it is a great example of why people never succeed.

Notice how what's going on in someone's head AFFECTS the business selection and its execution.

Notice how @MakeMoreMoves has an excuse for everything, or a reason why such "given advice" is to be discounted.

Notice how things are tried, but not really committed to.

Notice how money, and quick results is the priority, not a legitimate value skew based on relative value.

Observe and learn.
but but but.. he’s got a ferrari as his pic

he’s got to know what he’s doing!
 

ChrisV

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Tried for 3 years...empty handed still.
3 years? wow.

bro alot of people have sunk like 6 businesses before they had enough quarters to park somewhere for an hour

welcome to entrepreneurship..

I gotta accept reality at some point. What am I gonna do, keep trying till I'm 80 years old?
yea

I have been stuck in mom's basement because of this.
Wow you get to live rent free? What I would give to be you.

man i just started reading this thread... this ain’t gonna go well if i reply to the whole thing


to answer the question, no don’t buy one... you’re just gonna sink it
 

ChrisV

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Cars can be rented by the day. Expensive ones can be rented by the hour. And they can be financed and repossessed. I've seen a lot of "flash-in-the-pan success stories. Here today, gone tomorrow.
thanks lol
 

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