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NOTABLE! If I can't start a successful business, should I just buy one?

Discussion in 'General Entrepreneur Discussion' started by MakeMoreMoves, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. MakeMoreMoves
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    MakeMoreMoves Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I am starting to accept the fact that I just suck at getting a business off the ground. I have tried businesses where I spend months developing a product and run ads and...crickets. I have also tried extremely low investment businesses like T-shirts because I realized how much a waste of time and expensive with the trials of building your own from scratch. Even the T-shirt thing, I ran the ads...and crickets.

    So it seems to have any success on Facebook Ads (what I have been really trying to hone in on) you need initial data set in order for the facebook website conversion ad to work. They say so themselves. But if I can never get the initial data set, then I can never leverage the power of facebook.

    On top of the facebook pixel funnel is View Content. Easy enough to get. I run a traffic ad with interest based targeting. I get enough View Contents (data) in just a couple of days for facebook to use. Create New Ad to Optimize for View Content. Since this ad is optimized for VC Conversion, I see a lower cost per view content. So the next part of the funnel is to get the Add to Cart to fire. Based on what I read, with enough View Contents, eventually some people will ATC. Then you get the initial ATC data set. Then optimize for that that and slowly move down the last part of the funnel until you can optimize for purchases. This is where you are suppose to be making bank.

    But...nobody is ATC, so I always get stuck here. Because I can never get initial data set I'm stuck. I keep thinking it is a product problem, but then I see other ecommerce websites selling shirts or products in my opinion worse than mine. If people can see value in their products, how can they not in mine? they literally have nothing different. Examples are checking sales rank on on Amazon for T-shirt designs, they are obviously selling. Ecommerce selling websites showing their numbers and their store, profiting. These are not assumptions.

    Retargeting ads are run as well, but cost is like 2x more and no sales either.

    Also reading blog posts on facebook ads that say the best strategies are lookalike audiences, but you need an initial customer set...F*ck me.

    Just recently, I have looked at websites that sell ecommerce businesses. Like Shopify Exchange, and decided to creep on their websites and kind of shocked how these businesses even get sales, they look terrible. I mean the websites don't look any better than mine. They just look like generic aliexpress dropship and they are claiming profit of $3k a month LOL. If they didn't show me their numbers, I would assume all these websites get $0 sales.

    Facebook targeting seems no brainer, but I got nothing. I have a T-shirt with a Cat that is lifting weights. Seems easy enough...target people that like Cats and Must also match Weight Lifting. I have tried generic cat lover and generic fitness and have also gotten granular to cat magazines/rescue shelters & fitness icons, fitness brands. Interest that only that subset of people would truly like and...Nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  2. ZCP
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    ZCP Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    What is your end goal? Let's start there.
     
  3. MakeMoreMoves
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    MakeMoreMoves Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    $5k/month profit through ecommerce store through digital ads
     
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  4. Ddowns46
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    My advice to you is dont worry about ads, facebook targeting, or what service to build your website with- dont concern yourself one bit about what the most efficient way to communicate to your potential customers is. Trust me that you aren’t there yet. All that stuff comes later.

    My advice is to focus literally all of your entrepreneurial effort toward finding problems. Join forums that center around hobbies that you enjoy. Start tuning your ear to hear problems that people complain about regularly. Keep a notebook and start documenting your findings. Dont bog yourself down with figuring out how to solve the issue, just find the issues. With enough practice you will start walking through life constantly aware of the painpoints around you that are just begging to be solved. No painpoint is too crazy to write down at this stage. And no painpoint is too small.

    Next start thinking about what the impact would be if you solved each issue. Would it ‘impact millions’? Would people be compelled to purchase your offering because the alternative is to continue dealing with whatever issue your product solves? Discard the ideas that dont.

    Then start narrowing down which ideas are realistic. Everyone wishes their car would get 10,000 miles a gallon because the prices of gas sucks. But i would bet a signed dollar that you dont have the solution to that problem. Remove the outlandish ideas from your list.

    Hopefully by now your list is whittled down to a few that seem like they might be possible. Start reaching out to people that might have the knowledge to steer you toward a solution. If its an app, talk to a software guy about how it would be done. If its a mechanical device, reach ou to a mechanical engineer.

    From there your efforts should transition to building your solution. You might need to invest time in learning the skills required to develop the solution. Only after you have built a minimally viable solution to a painpoint should you start worrying about how to tell people about it (marketing).
     
  5. Longinus
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    Longinus Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    If you can't start a successful business (self limiting belief btw), what makes you think you can run one?
     
  6. MakeMoreMoves
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    MakeMoreMoves Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Tried for 3 years...empty handed still. I gotta accept reality at some point. What am I gonna do, keep trying till I'm 80 years old? I have been stuck in mom's basement because of this. If you read the OP, I mention about having initial data set for facebook pixel and pretty much 80% of tactics I know is if you have customers already. Fustrating if you don't have any customers. Getting the ball rolling and initial customers is the hardest part. I know because I have not successfully done it yet. I just suck at getting a viable business concept or initial customers. If customers are already there, then it is easier. I'm wasting time and lots of money.

    Oh..Longinus. You changed your profile pic. So you have seen all my posts haha
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  7. waveman
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    waveman Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Here's another perspective: If you look at successful entrepreneurs, it doesn't matter whether they buy a business (successful or failing) or start one. They always make money at the end of things. Two examples I know off the top of my head:

    Correct me if I'm wrong on this one: MJ sold off his company in the early 2000s. The new owners ended up running it into the ground and it started failing hard. MJ bought it back and turned it back around.

    Other example: I had the pleasure of meeting a very, very wealthy woman in my country (Margaret Hirsch, owner of an appliance chain store called Hirsch's here). She got into a huge debt (I'm not sure how much but I think it was to the tune of millions). She eventually made that money back and started getting much, much higher profits.

    I believe this is because of the mindsets and skills they develop around wealth, money and value. Their circumstances or situations they get into are irrelevant- because they've learned the right approaches to make money no matter what. Trying to buy a successful business and expecting it to carry itself is kind of like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound (no offense to you), because eventually your skills and decision-making are going to come to the surface and affect how well your business is doing.

    I'm not trying to be a critic here, downplay your attempts or anything, but do take a step back. Without mentioning other businesses, people, or customers, write down everything you think you're having trouble with when getting into business. Ideas, being unique, etc etc. From there see if you can tie it in to how you think about money, and value.

    Make sure you're developing the right mindsets by continuously reading books/stories of successful entrepreneurs. They usually all say the same things, so see what's common between them.
     
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  8. Fotis
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    Instead of going directly for the sale, why don't you put them in a list and promote your shirts from there?

    Facebook (and other social media) can go loco anytime and ban your account - not gonna happen with your very own email list.

    Plus, most people aren't ready to buy immediately. Depending on the industry, they might need as many as 30 viewings of your offer. Again, your life would be easier with an email list.

    A few more thoughts:

    1) Many direct response companies, take a loss in the front end and make a profit in the back end.

    Perhaps you could offer a really irresistible offer that would either earn you 0$ or even cost you dollars, just to make sure that your product is good. Then, when you have buyers, upsell them more shirts or other relevant products to recoup your loss.

    If they aren't willing to buy, then you need to rework your product or rethink how you approach prospects

    2) Talking about prospects, you say:

    "I have a T-shirt with a Cat that is lifting weights. Seems easy enough...target people that like Cats and Must also match Weight Lifting. "

    Bzt.

    Wrong.

    Liking =//= buying.

    I think fb has a choice to target people who have spend money in the past, right? If yes, target buyers. It didn't make sense to me when I began learning marketing ("but if they have already bought a t-shirt, they probably don't need another one!") but I was wrong.

    If you can find it, read chapter 6 of "The Boron Letters" by Gary halbert. It will help you understand what type of people you go after. You might have to read it a couple times, but it's worth it.

    3) I've bought 3 cat t-shirts from teeturtle.com

    Wanna know what's the best t-shirt to sell me? Another cat t-shirt.

    For your weightlifting cat example, a great way to make some sales is to find stores that sell similar shirts...ask them if they're willing to promote your product...and offer them a huge percentage of the profits.

    Why?

    Again, you wanna make sure that people actually want your t-shirt. No point wasting your money on FB ads, trying to sell people something they don't want.

    ***

    Anyway, those were my 2000000000 cents
     
  9. SquatchMan
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    SquatchMan Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    You're money chasing.

    Your whole post talked about getting ads to try and get people to buy a t-shrt with a design on it. Not on building something that people actually want/need.

    Find a problem -> Solve it. The problem could even be that the competition sucks and provides zero value.

    $5k/month isn't that much money either.
     
  10. Longinus
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    Longinus Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    :rofl:

    Call it a trap. Thing is, all the people who patted you on the shoulder and gave you advice of gold, still didn't get through you.

    You're only in your early 20s. 3 years is nothing. It can cost you 3 more years, or even 6 more years and that's ok. Simply buying another company won't solve your problem. If you really want to spend your money on something, keep an eye on the market section of this forum and get some decent coaching.
     
  11. W. Sabria
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    W. Sabria Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    I was really excited out this thread when I first read the subject line. I have been thinking about this a lot; having gone through extended and rigorous licensing processes for my automotive business (when we first started and then again when we relocated) and also seeing lots of new local restaurants that spend months doing ambitious build-outs (of a leased spaces) and ultimately not getting their certificate of occupancy for 12-18 months -- losing a lot of momentum and money along the way. I now think there is a lot to be said for buying a "turn-key" business (under the right conditions) in order to avoid all the pain, time and money -- spent and lost -- getting something new off the ground.

    Unfortunately, I found the thread to be a big disappointment. Like @SquatchMan said, this is just "money chasing." @MakeMoreMoves, sorry to say, you're not looking to start a business, you're looking for a cheap magic trick -- focused on smoke and mirrors. Facebook ads aren't hard to figure out, bro. Have you considered it's not the ads that don't work, but the product that doesn't work?

    Sorry if I'm being harsh. I've seen lots of long-time members go on rants here. I hope I'm not becoming just as cynical. I love MJ's books and I love his message. To be connected with others that "get it" is awesome. But clearly there are lots of users that say they get it, but don't really.

    I'm still very new to this forum, but I hope I find some truly valuable conversations in here soon. I didn't come here to point and laugh or "face-palm" all day.
     
  12. CROJosh
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    To anyone saying he's money-chasing, ease up; he's looking for 5K/month not a milli by December.

    @MakeMoreMoves Tip: In ecom, you don't run ads for sales, you run ads for information. The return on your ad spend comes from lifetime value of the customer. To raise this you need a safety net that catches prospects when they bounce or get distracted and a plan for when they come back and say either yes or no (upsell,downsell,sidesell, just give them options). Setup email automation and remind them you're awesome, sales is about followup more than persuasion. Ecom works, don't go buy someone else's headache before you tune this a little more.
     
  13. ZCP
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    ZCP Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    based on what you have said ...... buy a small business and learn to run it. try to build it into a sellable asset. you will learn a sh*t ton. you may also discover a need to fill.

    check out @Greg R posts in the last few months to see if this is sound advice. :)
     
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  14. GoGetter24
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    GoGetter24 Silver Contributor Speedway Pass

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    This is a bad thing? Here?

    I'm a money chaser. Happy to go head to head with anyone who wants to disparage that.
     
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  15. CROJosh
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    "Money-chasing" isn't a slight against money but describing someone who is prioritizing events over processes instead of finding solutions to problems for their market. My point was that he's trying to get his monthly nut, not get rich overnight.
     
  16. GoGetter24
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    And it's a solid point; the issue with finding and fulfilling a gap in the market is that it's in the chance-based realm of years, but your rent is in the damn-certain realm of now. I think some people forget this in their encouragement of a shoot-for-the-moon golden goose.

    Buying a business (with thorough due-diligence of course) has one clear mathematical benefit: rents, stocks & interest rates run at above 10-1 multiples, but businesses can run at multiples of 3-1 or less, in spite of the fact that merely by a business not being dead it has already beaten the 10-1 or greater failure rate of new businesses.

    The biggest risk is you then running it into the ground out of incompetence (e.g. as DeMarco's business' purchasers did), but you've got a lot more control of your competence than you do of the market's response.
     
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  17. Fastlane Liam
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    Fastlane Liam Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    And at no point did you mention the PRODUCT
     
  18. Brendan8450
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    Anything local to start? ..Facebook is a dreamcoat for all to ride on...change focus n localise..
     
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  19. Get Right
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    Get Right Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    It took me 4 years post TMF to really see any money and I had built 7+ companies prior.

    Why not? Fastlane is a mindset. When you get it dialed in you can do it forever.

    You haven't provided value to anybody yet. You must be selling something nobody wants. I had this happen with a line of dog houses...they were awesome, I marketed the crap out of them but nobody bought (wanted) them.

    Bingo! Find a raving market, find a need of that market, make a product to fulfill that need...in that order.

    Good point. Remember to thank your mom! That's very nice of her.

    Wrapping up my post here: I don't think you are too far from where you want to be. There are a few mindset changes you need to make (hinted above). Once you "see" a little more clearly the path will emerge. Good luck and hit me up if you need any help!
     
  20. MakeMoreMoves
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    MakeMoreMoves Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    The reason I have this mentality is that I have read many case studies. The looked at their products and it might be that I am not their target demographic, but I see nothing of value in their offering let alone a USP. But they are making sales based on my research. So when you tell me that I got in with the mentality of trying to get people to buy a T-shirt with a design, you are telling me that I am not offering value?

    I mean just because I go in with this mentality, doesn't mean my product is void of value. So if I created oh I don't know a product that helps people better walk, but go in with the mentality of trying to get people to buy this walking-assisted product, now it contains no value? T- shirt designs provide value by having a person resonate with it. How about all the case studies of people selling T-shirt designs in the hundreds every month? People want T-shirts with designs.

    Look at Shopify Exchange, I mean I look all of those and I see like no value at all. But they still making money. The problem is that see people going in with the mentality of no value and can become successful.

    Yeah I know $5k/month isn't much. But I still haven't gotten to it.
     
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  21. MakeMoreMoves
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    MakeMoreMoves Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I mean take look at these: All Listings | Ecommerce Websites & Businesses for Sale | Buy and Sell Online Sites

    These definitely look like money chasing ventures, but they are obviously making sales? I mean technically you can logic it both ways right?

    Money-Chasing Mentality - You are just trying to get people to buy your T-shirt designs with Ads, you are a money chaser
    Value Mentality - You are creating T-shirt designs that resonate with the consumer that aligns with their worldview and therefore provide value.

    But at the end of it, both are just selling T-shirt designs.
     
  22. SquatchMan
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    SquatchMan Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Sure, you can be successful. It's just a constant uphill battle for not a large payoff. I know because I've done a business that sold a commodity product (t-shirts with custom designs have a substantial amount of fungibility) using advertising (Google Shopping). I don't recommend it.

    You're fighting over a tiny amount of customers with a bunch of other competition selling the same stuff. It's a miserable business model.

    If you want a counterexample look at some of the Insider progress threads where people are literally begging the owner for the product.

    That's the kind of business I want to be in.
    -------
    Just buy a t-shirt business that makes $3k/month though. Report how it goes. It'd be an interesting case study.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  23. MakeMoreMoves
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    I am actually really aware of this. This is completely Red Ocean. What I have seen of others that got successful is that they normally have an initial success in a Red Ocean type business. Then they use the profits generated from the red ocean business into a blue ocean type. Not sure if you read the book blue ocean strategy. Blue Ocean strategy does say to reduce and eliminate to keep costs down for creating new markets. But even with this, it tends cost much more than a red ocean. Take profits or sell off red ocean once it became successful and fund the blue ocean.
     
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  24. BucketHolly
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    Do not give up yet. You're going somewhere. Just have faith in yourself.
     
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  25. Get Right
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    This in an excerpt from a post I like about a gentlemen entering the T-shirt business (I know this is just one of your attempts). It shows what reality looks like (not the fake businesses for sale with ridiculous asks and misleading numbers).

    I learned it wasn’t as easy as I thought. I couldn’t just make a shirt and advertise it. Twenty-one failures proved that. I tried selling shirts to dog lovers, coffee lovers, hot sauce lovers, lawyers and more. It would have been easy to quit after so many failures. I wasn’t ready to quit yet.

    Finally on the 22nd campaign I had a winning design. It was stupidly simple. It was just a cute message I found on Instagram and targeted toward pediatric nurses. It took less than five minutes to create it in Photoshop. Once I ran the ad, I had a sale before I spent $10.

    After the campaign ended seven days later, I had sold 17 shirts. I spent $81.72 on ads and earned $112.25 for a profit of $30.53. It wasn’t a huge profit, but it was a successful campaign, finally. It took a few more failures before I had another successful design – it sold 32 shirts.

    21 failures on a simple T-shirt. This is the work nobody usually talks about. Those 21 campaigns cost him a lot of money also. Factor in the $30.53 profit and he is WAY in the hole.

    This is why I come back to focusing on your mental game. Ask better questions in better markets and leave this money-chasing T-shirt stuff to the rookies.
     
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