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Idea for Chain of Hip-Hop Stores

Idea threads

WheelsRCool

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Okay, well this would be a longer-term idea, and maybe it's already been done for all I know, but in case not I'm just wondering if anyone thinks it would work. You know how there are some large chains, for example Pacific Sunware, that are devoted to the skate, surf, snowboard, i.e. "Extreme Sports" lifestyle? Or the ones catering to the Goth lifestyle? Well I was thinking of a chain of stores devoted to Hip-Hop.

Now when I say Hip-Hop, I am not talking about the "Gangsta" culture or the rap culture per se, those aren't real Hip-Hop. Obviously rap culture, certain aspects of it, might have to be included, but I mean the stores wouldn't be focused solely on that idea.

I was thinking of stores focused towards urban fashion for men and women, Hip-Hop jewelry, music, and anything else related to Hip-Hop and street culture, for example Hip-Hop drink brands, videos of Hip-Hop dancing and breakdancing (B-Boying), etc...I am thinking apparel, clothes, shoes, etc...would be the biggest component of the store.

I am guessing a lot more research would be needed for this and an experimental starter store of course at first to test the concept, would be cool if it was workable though!

Hip-Hop is something I really love, I like a lot of rap and Hip-Hop music, I love Hip-Hop dancing and breakdancing (B-Boying), I love urban/street art, everything from graffiti (beautiful graffiti, not spray-painting someone's nice home), stickers, etc...and of course Hip-Hop fashion is awesome I think, both for guys and gals.

Any suggestions, ideas, comments, etc...appreciated.
 
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tbsells

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Sounds like the start of a good idea. You sound like you know what products would appeal to your target consumer. Thats an important step. Would you be involved in manufacturing these products or just retailing? Maybe both eventually with the development of a store brand.

Where do people shop currently for this type of product? Can you do it better? I think you have a good idea. Retail can be tough, and next to impossible if you have to compete with Wal Mart and Target. The good thing is that this is a niche market that they don't care about. I would suggest you read the post by PhxMJ entitled "Do you have a successful entreprenurial premise." I guess the biggest questions would be "Is there a need for this type of store?" and "Can I do it better than those currently serving this market?"
 
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LightHouse

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There are 3 stores like this in my local mall, probably a bog reason why there arent huge chains because of the demographic of the store and the fact that you are selling to an entirely diffrent culture. I wont get into any specifics in order not to offend people.

In other insight, i think you need to read the thread on here about focus, it seems every week there is a diffrent idea from you. you need to get one that you can start now and focus on it and nothing else. all the rest of this brainstorming is cluttering your mind.
 

WheelsRCool

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Don't worry I have the one idea and am working on it right now (learning Web coding phase at the moment), it is e-commerce, I am playing around a bit on the niche to start with, but I have a whole list of ideas for that; but I brainstorm other ideas all the time and if I get an interesting one and there's a topic I have questions on, I type it here (for example all my questions on Private equity/hedge funds as of late). It's just the Entrepreneur in me always pumping out new ideas :) however the things I ask questions about are all things I am legitimately interested in on a permanent basis. For example don't think last week I was all into hedge funds and private equity and then just dropped that for chain store ideas now, it isn't like that at all.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Hot Topic is another example of a chain store focusing on youth culture, though they market to a variety of cultures (pop, goth, punk, otaku, etc...).

I read that back in the early 90s, when Russell Simmons started his Hip-Hop clothing company, that many told him it was a bad idea, as there were no such companies (these days there are tons of Hip-Hop clothing companies). I would love to find out if an urban fashion-type of store with Hip-Hop elements would be a similar pioneer perhaps in retailing.
 
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White8

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It sounds like a good idea but remember your market is a moving target so you will have to stay up on trends and that is the difference between a long term success or a ten year run. When I was in high school and college nearly 20 years ago grunge was in, women wore Guess jeans, and OP was the shirt of choice. Hip-Hop didn't exist and the goths were just starting to appear.
 

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Without knowing the marketspace, I like the idea. There is a lot of money to be made in these niche's, assuming you know how to serve it. Find existing companies, analyze them, see what they are doing, and do it better ... add a few different hooks, product lines, and shoot for the stars.
 
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phade

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There actually has been an urban apparel chain apparently owned, and now being discarded by, Pac Sun: D.E.M.O.

Here are two articles regarding it's possible demise, with mention of a few other active chains:

http://www.dnrnews.com/site/article.php?id=828
http://www.dnrnews.com/site/article.php?id=424

Here is there official site, which looks to be almost shut down: http://www.demostores.com/

I too love hip hop/urban culture and apparel. From what I've observed as a consumer, I would figure competition would by spaces like Macy's, Ross, and their sister store DD's Discounts. Particularly the Ross (and DD chains from what I hear) as they seem to be well stocked with common urban brands (Phat Farm, XV, Rocawear, Ecko, Sean John, Mecca, South Pole, FUBU, 5Jungle, etc.) at heavy discounts (typically 40-50% off retail) which is of course very attractive to a younger audience that may not have much of a disposable income.

The upshot though would be the fact that the discount stores don't usually have as large a selection as a specialty chain would, nor are they likely to have the absolute latest designs while you of course, would :thumbsup:
 

mini ferrari

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I think if you market it right and had quality stuff it would do really well. I know where I'm from there have been a few of them in the malls, they usually last a few years and another one pops up in it's place.
 

WheelsRCool

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phade, thanks for that info, I find that very interesting! ++++

Van Sinderen and other analysts blamed much of demo’s problems on an unpredictable urban market. Launched in 1998 at the height of the hip-hop apparel frenzy, the multibrand, mall-based streetwear retailer has been plagued by the flagging popularity of once-robust urban labels.

“You haven’t seen the hip-hop icons on the guys’ side do a good job of nurturing their brands,” explained Elizabeth Pierce, a senior research analyst in the consumer practice at Roth Capital Partners. “Once [Sean John founder] Diddy and [Rocawear cofounder] Jay-Z started dressing up, they walked away from what they were trying to sell.”

This is an interesting and good point, as it probably is kind of hard to sell Hip-Hop wear when all the Hip-Hop rapper artists are wearing suits and ties these days.

As the only national chain specializing in streetwear, demo’s demise seems to symbolize the death of the hip-hop apparel chain.

That stinks if this is the case. However, considering that the business was started in 1998 and was initially successful, I would imagine if an entrepreneur had started this business back then, this would be an example of a business that would likely have made that entrepreneur a lot of money, but ultimately failed. I would guess the entrepreneur would have learned a lot and have sufficient money to move onto a second business.

The guy who created the "Rainforest Cafe" narrowly avoided bankruptcy with his first business, a chain of stores.

However, similar retailers continue to tack on storefronts, implying that demo’s failure could be a demo problem, not an urban problem.

This is something I was wondering about too, maybe it is a problem with the store chain itself and not the demise of the brands, who knows though.

Case in point: Up Against The Wall has 25 locations nationwide, Man Alive has 95 stores and Downtown Locker Room has 70 locations.
DTLR’s CEO, Glenn Gaynor, told DNR that the chain’s ultimate goal is to open 250 to 300 stores around the U.S.—some potentially in markets that demo could soon depart. “But you can’t run the business from some central office somewhere. You have to give each store the autonomy to be the local retailer in each market you are in,” he explained.

This I find interesting, as this seems like a tricky subject, it's like if you start a chain or franchise of stores, you need stringent rules for the automation of each store (so a store someone enters in Texas is the same as one inn California), on the other hand, you need to give each manager/owner of each store the proper flexibility on certain issues.

If Man Alive has 95 stores and Downtown Locker Room 70 locations, that is very interesting. DTLR is smart, saying they intend to open up more stores but will adapt to the times.

I think if you market it right and had quality stuff it would do really well. I know where I'm from there have been a few of them in the malls, they usually last a few years and another one pops up in it's place.

Yeah, I love retail brands that are focused towards particular niches, such as Gothic, or Surf/Skate culture, or Hip-Hop/Urban brands, etc...the problem is making sure the culture will stick around and not just be a fad.

One culture I am also looking towards is anime. However, I don't think the market for anime is large enough at the moment, so I don't know how a chain would fair, especially with the Internet nowadays. Who knows though.

One could also start a store chain in a non-original-seeming industry, like golf for example, basically a niche sporting good store.

I read recently about a chain of golf stores, Golf Galaxy that sold for $261 million. The chain was about 69 stores at the time, but it was started back in 2000! It was a public company, but assuming then if it was started by an entrepreneur who retained say 40% of the stock, well that would be $104 million, so not bad for seven years assuming the numbers are correct.

Build-A-Bear Workshop was started ten years ago and now is a couple of hundred stores globally, which I found to be interesting. Completely original retail concept and very good and aggressive growth. The woman who founded it I believe was the CEO of Payless Shoe, Inc. but she had a nack apparently for spotting niches in her career, so she decided to start her own company.

Okay I am spouting ideas and rambling, retail is a cool (and cutthroat!) industry though.
 
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phlgirl

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Hey Wheels -

I know very little about retail but am working on learning more about buying an existing business. From what I have read so far, they say your chance of success is substantially greater if you buy an existing business as opposed to going the full start up route. Might not be for everyone.... but that's what I've read. :)

I remember your mentioning that you were from PHL.... although not sure if u are still there? While searching the biz databases tonight, I came across this listing - thought of you.

Might be worth a conversation, if nothing else.

Best of luck in your venture!

http://www.bizbuysell.com/cgi-bin/a...&county=2297&pfrom=&pto=&ss=1&tab=eb&q=337212
 

Rawr

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OPINION ONLY:

Based on what I know - your target market is very limited - so limited in fact that I would be hard pressed to give you more than 2 months before you close up shop.

Reasons:

People who spend money buy "gangsta" things. 50cent is making a killing on it. You might believe that true hip hop fans will come out of the woodworks and buy....um what exactly? an Atmosphere t-shirt? Talib Kwali jeans? How many records are those guys selling compared to mainstream gangsta music - THAT SELLS.

Chains? graffity? BBoy videos? I could be 110% wrong on this - but there is a very good chance you will make exactly $2 after tax :D

Suggestions:

Research what sells and why. See how big your target market potential really is. Look at things as they are, not as you want them to be.

Cheers
 

WheelsRCool

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Hey Wheels -

I know very little about retail but am working on learning more about buying an existing business. From what I have read so far, they say your chance of success is substantially greater if you buy an existing business as opposed to going the full start up route. Might not be for everyone.... but that's what I've read. :)

I remember your mentioning that you were from PHL.... although not sure if u are still there? While searching the biz databases tonight, I came across this listing - thought of you.

Might be worth a conversation, if nothing else.

Best of luck in your venture!

http://www.bizbuysell.com/cgi-bin/ad...ab=eb&q=337212

Thanks! Yeah, I am from Philly originally, but now in Upstate, NY at the moment.

OPINION ONLY:

Based on what I know - your target market is very limited - so limited in fact that I would be hard pressed to give you more than 2 months before you close up shop.

Reasons:

People who spend money buy "gangsta" things. 50cent is making a killing on it. You might believe that true hip hop fans will come out of the woodworks and buy....um what exactly? an Atmosphere t-shirt? Talib Kwali jeans? How many records are those guys selling compared to mainstream gangsta music - THAT SELLS.

Chains? graffity? BBoy videos? I could be 110% wrong on this - but there is a very good chance you will make exactly $2 after tax :D

Suggestions:

Research what sells and why. See how big your target market potential really is. Look at things as they are, not as you want them to be.

Cheers

Yeah, I am fully aware of that but thankyou for the reminder. That is the problem with Hip-Hop, if you market to real Hip-Hop, the concept likely wouldn't work because most people think of Hip-Hop as the "Gangsta" culture unfortunately.

But like I said, perhaps mixing it with other niches too is an idea.

Perhaps I could start with an urban fashion e-tail website.

I Googled some and found Cluburban.com and read the About Us:

About Us

Club Urban was started in 1999 in the Orange County area of Southern California, USA.

We started selling items that were popular and in demand among the younger population of Celebrity, Hip Hop, Skate and Street wear. Soon we realized by using the internet, we could bring these items to millions of homes around the world.

In 2003 we launched our website called Cluburban.com and became soon the #1 supplier of authentic street wear, with exceptional customer service.

Our company has grown 500% year after year and expanded sales in to more than 50 countries around the world.

Our Vision

Because of our excellent buying power and relations we created over the years we're able to expand our product line and offer the consumer better prices and new merchandise.

We will continue to provide the consumer with excellent and safe online shopping experience with new e-commerce technology and hacker safe implementations.

Club Urban will open retail stores in the near future to expand our product lines to local markets. Our goal is to expand on our Club Urban brand and to make it a household name.

Our own branded clothing line is in the works and should launch successfully in the near future.


WOW, that is inspiring IMO, maybe I could start my own ecommerce business in this industry. That is awesome, successful ecommerce business, retail stores planned, and also creating their own clothing line!! They have five years on me though, so we will see :cheers:
 
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mizchels

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I would suggest you read the post by PhxMJ entitled "Do you have a successful entreprenurial premise."

Apologies if this is staring me in the face but I can't seem to find this post...I tried a search but terms weren't working. Where can I find this? Thanks. :seeya:
 

Yankees338

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Thanks! Yeah, I am from Philly originally, but now in Upstate, NY at the moment.



Yeah, I am fully aware of that but thankyou for the reminder. That is the problem with Hip-Hop, if you market to real Hip-Hop, the concept likely wouldn't work because most people think of Hip-Hop as the "Gangsta" culture unfortunately.

But like I said, perhaps mixing it with other niches too is an idea.

Perhaps I could start with an urban fashion e-tail website.

I Googled some and found Cluburban.com and read the About Us:

About Us

Club Urban was started in 1999 in the Orange County area of Southern California, USA.

We started selling items that were popular and in demand among the younger population of Celebrity, Hip Hop, Skate and Street wear. Soon we realized by using the internet, we could bring these items to millions of homes around the world.

In 2003 we launched our website called Cluburban.com and became soon the #1 supplier of authentic street wear, with exceptional customer service.

Our company has grown 500% year after year and expanded sales in to more than 50 countries around the world.

Our Vision

Because of our excellent buying power and relations we created over the years we're able to expand our product line and offer the consumer better prices and new merchandise.

We will continue to provide the consumer with excellent and safe online shopping experience with new e-commerce technology and hacker safe implementations.

Club Urban will open retail stores in the near future to expand our product lines to local markets. Our goal is to expand on our Club Urban brand and to make it a household name.

Our own branded clothing line is in the works and should launch successfully in the near future.

WOW, that is inspiring IMO, maybe I could start my own ecommerce business in this industry. That is awesome, successful ecommerce business, retail stores planned, and also creating their own clothing line!! They have five years on me though, so we will see :cheers:
I like the idea. If you decide to offer some competition for them, good luck.

I think you'd be better of at least starting online, because it's easier to target your market there. However, due to fewer barriers to entry, there will probably be more competition. Marketing is easier online, though, and your involvement in running this could be easily controlled. Of course, the more you're willing to put in, the more you'll get out of this.

If you decide to open up a retail location, your locale will be key because of how specific your demographics have to be. I'm sure you'd be better off in an urban location; however, that would probably come at a higher price.

Good luck. Keep us posted on the idea! If you can market it successfully and offer more than the competition, there is definitely some room for you in the market.
 
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mizchels

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It's stickied in the General Business Discussion forum.

Ah, muchos gracias!

Another side note for this subject. Do you ever watch "The Big Idea" on CNBC on weeknights? It's truly fascinating and inspiring, if you haven't seen it. Watching that--or going to the website and reading stories from other entrepreneurs--might give you an emotional boost if not more ideas.
 

CactusWren

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This sounds like a good idea to me. There is a chain in Tucson, AZ that is called the "Hippie Gypsy" and it has 2-3 stores around town, I do not know anymore than that, but it could provide some info.

good luck!
 
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allwayzcash

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Okay, well this would be a longer-term idea, and maybe it's already been done for all I know, but in case not I'm just wondering if anyone thinks it would work. You know how there are some large chains, for example Pacific Sunware, that are devoted to the skate, surf, snowboard, i.e. "Extreme Sports" lifestyle? Or the ones catering to the Goth lifestyle? Well I was thinking of a chain of stores devoted to Hip-Hop.

Now when I say Hip-Hop, I am not talking about the "Gangsta" culture or the rap culture per se, those aren't real Hip-Hop. Obviously rap culture, certain aspects of it, might have to be included, but I mean the stores wouldn't be focused solely on that idea.

I was thinking of stores focused towards urban fashion for men and women, Hip-Hop jewelry, music, and anything else related to Hip-Hop and street culture, for example Hip-Hop drink brands, videos of Hip-Hop dancing and breakdancing (B-Boying), etc...I am thinking apparel, clothes, shoes, etc...would be the biggest component of the store.

I am guessing a lot more research would be needed for this and an experimental starter store of course at first to test the concept, would be cool if it was workable though!

Hip-Hop is something I really love, I like a lot of rap and Hip-Hop music, I love Hip-Hop dancing and breakdancing (B-Boying), I love urban/street art, everything from graffiti (beautiful graffiti, not spray-painting someone's nice home), stickers, etc...and of course Hip-Hop fashion is awesome I think, both for guys and gals.

Any suggestions, ideas, comments, etc...appreciated.
join to the club...coz' you need looots of doll to do this...my opinion is to start in us(but -unconditional- good quality cloth and design) and you'll do a blast in eastern europe...the kids overthere are nuts after hip hop
 

Reefbreak

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Any suggestions, ideas, comments, etc...appreciated.

1. Spend some time at your local malls and do some research. There are plenty of clothing stores with the "hip-hop" theme. Take some notes, and figure out what you can do better.

2. Most of the current "hip-hop" stores are local or regional owners, meaning they have one or perhaps 2-3 stores. DEMO was a regional chainstore and as mentioned, they did not make it. You should try to understand why... the answer is almost always in the numbers somewhere.

3. Talk to current store owners and ask questions about suppliers, mark-up, seasonality, hiring employees, negotiating lease agreements, etc. You may want to pose as a college student doing a school project to get this information as most owners may not want to discuss the nuts and bolts of their business with a potential competitor.

4. Better yet, get a part-time job in one of the stores and learn about the above first hand.

5. In getting to know some other store owners, you may find one who is motivated to sell out at a discount. If the idea still makes sense after plenty of research, this may be a way to get a store brand, suppliers, etc. at a discount.

6. Whether you decide to open a new store or buy an existing one, you will want to sign a short term license agreement (a one year or less committment) with the landlord for the space as opposed to a long term lease. You do NOT want to commit to a long term lease as a new operator. Historically, "licensed" in-line space has only been available in "C" locations within shopping malls. In today's environment, "B" and sometimes "A" locations are available.. even short term.

7. Location in a shopping mall is everything. You want to be on the lower level (if 2 levels exist), and as close to the 50-yard line (middle of the mall) as possible.

I could go on and on, and should someday write a book/start a website to assist local retailers, especially with items related to dealing with landlords and negotiating leases. Most small operators are at such a disadvantage is really is not fair.

Best of luck.
 

PaulRobert

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Against All Odds is one Hip-Hop related store. I do not shop there but here is a useful tactic: spend some time in the store analyzing what their inventory consists of and what the people are looking for. Listen to complaints and be observant of what consumers are buying, its a good strategy to find a certain niche.
 
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tchandy

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A hip hop store is similar to the latest fashion and trends. I think you would need to have a strong stomach to handle to changes in this unique market. A friend of mine has worked in a store like this right outside of Philly. The latest trends come and go very quickly. I think it would be very easy to come out on the loss column in sales unless you have the reserves to maintain your product line and a strong customer base. Will you have a strong target audience for your store?

Tom
 

imoutthere

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Growing up in NYC, i know and live Hip Hop/ Urban culture very well.

Out here in Va, I shop at these "hip hop/Urban" stores all the time and have seen plenty of them in the mall. the problem is that they dont stick around long enough.

Urban Clothing has a ridiculous mark up on them. In my area there are 5 malls. 1 of the malls is in a rougher part of norfolk and this is where all the urban stores are located. In the nicer malls, you will find that the sneaker stores sell most of the urban gear in them. Also you have the new Urban boutique stores who sell vintage jordans, air force one's, bapes, etc.

The reason i think they arent making it is because of prices they have to pay for goods and rent. Like mentioned B4, urban gear has a ridiculous mark up on its clothing. $80 t-shirts, $200 jeans, $50 hats, etc.. plus they only have so much space to display their clothing.

The anchor stores are your biggest competition. They have alot more space to display alot more clothing which gives the consumer alot more options of their favorite brands.

Also I can go into macy's and find that same $80 for $50-$60. Once a quater that anchor store will sell that t-shirt at 50%-75% off the original price. thats $10-$20 for that same t-shirt. anchor stores are always having big sales. You rarely see an urban store having anything over %20 off.

When i see "SALE" This is the time everyong goes to shop. the anchor store will send you an email letting you know this constantly. So that same shirt most will pay $10-$20 for it. That is something an urban store cannot do and thats why i think they are dying from malls all over the country.

I would suggest going the online route like cluburban. The amount you might make on a t-shirt might be less, but your overhead is low and you can have alot more styles, sizes and colors of t-shirts than department stores.

I would suggest starting a forum with your ecommerce site too. If you can form a community online with your brand, then im sure you can go the retail outlet way in no time. thats the biggest advantage you have over the giants. We as consumers dont have a sense of belonging to a particular store. We might favor a certain brand of clothing, but as far as shopping goes, i would rather look for a cheaper price. Hope this helps
 

TrendSetter

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I believe there is alot more to why these stores are closing other than just the high mark-up. Alot of business shut down solely because they are only offering one product, if your going to open an urban store, than make it it a one stop for anything hip-hop "Onestop - HipHop"... Sounds kinda ketchy.. Meaning you sell clothes, shoes, CD's, Posters, and alot to do with music, maybe even throw together a small recording studio, and a small print shop for upcoming artists to print CD labels, who knows. You need to make it an overall hangout where people can come and kick it, offer drinks, food, etc... There needs to be multiple streams of income, create the brand yourself, have your own shirts etc. Maybe even put a half court basketball court inside? Anything is possible man, think big! Good luck.
 
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RiseAbove

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look up the Hip Hop Soda Shop....great idea...failed though and about to close down all physical locations.....contact me sometime soon, hip hop is my thing as well, maybe we could create some good ideas together
 

dbeck29

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I dont know if it has been mentioned yet but there is a store called "against all odds" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_All_Odds_(retail_store) which is what you are looking to doing. not to say you couldnt get in the market place because even the big boys crumble with new competition. There was an Against All Odds in our local mall but it went out of business
 

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Culver City
I know I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to say something anyway.

The ideas and tips added here are a confirmation that this forum kick buttocks.;-) It's a great resource that I look forward to participating within.

Regards,
Anthony aka Chitown
 

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