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I said: "The website is $3000". They said: "Too expensive! I was thinking $500!"

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

Don't work with cheapskates. Not only will they fight you for every penny, they'll constantly harass you over minor details.

$20,000 clients are easier to deal with than $2,000 clients.

Avoid losers.
 

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Those people are what we in sophisticated business circles call "jerkoffs".

I've sold cars, built websites, and I run a lawn care company. Here's a fun way to handle jerkoffs.

"We're looking for this car we saw on your website"
"Here's the car! It will be $25,000. Just like it's listed for on our website."
"We can only pay $20,000. Give me a discount"
"OHHH! My bad! I showed you the wrong car then. Here's a $20,000 car that fits your budget"
"We want this one for $20,000."
"I see. Well, we can only offer it at that price in the color brown. Would that work?"
"Yes"
"So, you'll...take it in the brown...for $20,000?"
"Yes"
"I'll go tell my manager you want to...take it in the brown... Not to be disrespectful, but you seem like the kind of guy who'd do it for a lot less".

I'll never forget when I was selling a car with one of my coworkers. The other salesman was in his mid 60's and has had two heart attacks already. He was just selling cars for shits and giggles at this point. We were sharing a deal and negotiating with a customer later in the evening around 8pm right before closing, and the customer asked "Is there any wiggle room in the price?" And me and the other guy look at each other and both smile and we do this in sync:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r4-yzCyVw&ab_channel=NathanNoah



Just get rid of the jerkoffs! Laugh about them and then move on to the serious customers! It's just a part of doing business. You'll get someone who asks you for a website and thinks $4,000 is cheap! Just move on to the next one. Do you know how many people we give lawn care quotes to that think our prices are crazy high? We can get two identical properties and tell one person it'll be $130 a month who thinks that's too expensive and the other place could be $160 a month and they say it's dirt cheap! Just make sure to be more professional than your competitors and you'll be able to charge higher prices, which allows you to pay better wages and attract good people, and build a good reputation. A race to the bottom puts everyone in a ditch. Shitty employees, shitty customers, shitty profits, shitty reviews, etc.
 

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Nothing is inherently expensive.

Something appears to be expensive if its price appears to be much higher than the perceived value.

Is a $50,000 car expensive? Well it depends on the car doesn't it? $50,000 for a 10 year old Civic is expensive. $50,000 for a new Lambo is cheap.

It seems like your potential client does not understand the value being provided when building a $3000 website. Perhaps give them an illustration of what a $500 website looks like and then an illustration of a $3000 website. Perhaps show how the value of the $3000 website will bring in more sales, leads, etc that far surpasses the extra $2500.
 

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You need actual value to meet perceived value. Maybe the customer is a PITA like everyone is saying, but maybe not.

Maybe they know more about websites than you think, and they’re like “$3,000? But this website is simple!”

I don’t know the details of this particular project, but you need to make sure the real value is equal or higher than the value you are expecting the customer to pay you.

If you wanted a website that just displays one word with zero CSS or style, would you pay me $1 million for it?

So start there
 

Jon L

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One way to phrase this to them is this:

"I did say that I could do this for $500 (or whatever it was). That is for a quick and dirty website that is slapped together. I've thought about this, and your business won't benefit from such a site. We need to carefully think through how to talk to your target market (yada yada yada). If we do that, we're going to be able to draw in far more clients than we would if we just put something together really quick.

How much is one client worth to you? $500/year? So, if you just get 5 more clients this year you'll break even on this site. (yada yada yada)

"Well, the most we're willing to give you is $1000."

"That's too bad. I don't do work that I don't think is going to benefit my client, and the limited amount of time I'll be able to dedicate to your project at that price will result in a product that won't deliver what you're looking for. I'm sorry, but I'll need to decline."

"Well I can go to Fiverr and pay $500."

"That is true. Finding someone that can deliver actual results, though, isn't easy. I am one such person, and I charge accordingly. You may get lucky on Fiverr and find someone that give you the quality you need for $500. What's much more likely, though, is that you'll end up with a $500 website, and a lot of wasted time. However, I hope you find what you're looking for."

...

4 weeks later.

"Hey, so that Fiverr guy charged $750 and didn't really do what we wanted. How much would you charge to fix what he did?"

(without even looking at the site)

"$3000."
 

Christopher104

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
I'm working to become a web developer one day and your execution inspires me. I like how you stood by your price and didn't backpaddle to their consumer thinking of "oh this is too expensive" as if they viewed buying a website like buying a car.

there's this YouTube video I watched where the coach describes two entrepreneur types:
1. the kind that plays to win (you)
2. the kind that plays not to lose (the medical office)
 

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max

Hey Max I think you missed a step here.

"I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients.

The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality.

Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering."


Okay so cool you got 3 problems here...
- no place where they can list all their services (sales)
- struggling to keep track of the clients (systems)
- attract the right clients (marketing)

You then jump from talking about these problems to the price you would like to work with - $3,000.

That price sounds quite fair but you missed a step...

- You don't know what it is costing them to have those issues right now
- You don't know what it will be worth to them and their business to have them fixed
- You don't know their current cashflow/budget available to work on this

You got the data but there isn't any dollar amounts attached to it.

If you want 3k you got to balance it out with numbers on the other side.
- how much they are behind on their goals $$$
- how much a customer could have been worth to them every time they lose one $$$
- how much a great website with a dialled in system could be helping them out each month $$$

Without asking the above questions you both know they have a problem but not what the problem is worth to them to fix it. You are thinking of one figure in your mind (backed by your experience and perspective) but in their minds they might value that problems as being not a big deal at all - at least compared to other areas where they could be spending their money. So what you see as a problem worth 3k to fix they might see as no big deal - you got to build up the sale more before moving to asking about the budget.

To get paid now (and to make it 3k) you need to show why it needs to be fixed now and why 3k is a great amount.

You do this by linking problems with real dollar amounts of focusing on what they gain by fixing the problem but also what they keep on losing by not fixing the problem. This create a strong need, urgency and a logical reason to invest at a higher amount than they originally had planned to.

How to do this:
Next time after you have asked about problems and before you talk budget ask a few questions like...

- What percentage of sales do you think the website helps with each month right now?
- And what percentage do you think a great website could be doing if it was all set up right??
- Okay, so that is a gap of _____ % - so just to know what is at stake here how much is that in dollars roughly???


Or...

-To help understand what options I should be looking at can you take about what business goals you are hoping to hit the next 3/6/12 months?
- And right now how behind on those are you? What kinda of gains do you need to see??
- And how much do you think the right website could help with that plan???


Those are just examples but the logic is you are connecting their current real problems with current real numbers.

Then when you mention your 3k budget it is being compared to what they are losing out on (a BIG amount) and not being compared to something small like a $500 WIX website they saw last year.

In short:
> connect their problems with real dollar amounts
> start linking those together in their mind so there is a clear big issue with a lot of real dollars at stake of being lost
> then use that big number to make your budget look very reasonable and fair (which it should be)

Hope that helps.
 

eliquid

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I think everyone here has some valid points to a degree.

As someone that has been designing websites since the late 90's, selling marketing services, being an affiliate for certain "broad appeal products", and now runs a SaaS... the one thing I see over and over again is the majority of the time you can't "re-teach" someone easily.

I've seen it trying my services as a web developer.

I've seen it selling my marketing services.

I've seen it being an affiliate for diet, teeth, skin, biz opp.

I've seen it getting people into my SaaS which was a first to market mover and years ahead of it's time.

I've seen it just handling the Paid advertising campaigns for companies like Alibaba, John Deere, Virgin, and TeamViewer.

Customers are like onions. They have layers.

Each one of them are at a different layer in life. Each of them ALSO have a different layer of understanding "things" too on top of that.

It didn't matter which sales technique I used, how many times I followed up with different angles, how many times I tried to reposition the sale and value.. some people get it and some people just don't.

How close someone is to buying what I am selling is a major factor, before I pitch them.

Example... I got a blue 1969 Ford Bronco for sale. Everyone loves these cars, but only a few will actually want to buy one at the price I am selling for. Therefor, everyone will want to talk to me and kick the tires, but only a small % actually have cash and the trigger pulling to actually buy it.

The ones that don't, I can spend all day and night trying to convince them to buy it.. but if they don't have the money or aren't really at the right point emotionally to purchase it.. they won't and I am just wasting my time. They might be months or years away from that point.. so I'm not going to waste months on them right now with different techniques.

In marketing, this is why we have "funnels". Top of funnel ( ToFu ), Middle and bottom funnels. People are in different modes and emotions and stages of "ready".

The ones you can convince on the spot with SPINNING, still a lot of times have doubts. You got them reframed now and they pull the trigger, but everything afterward is like pulling teeth or you get a ton of changes/feedback that seems on they are actually on the fence or negative. Changing someone's mind like this has typically led me to find the customer doesn't end up being my "perfect customer".

It's even happened to me as a buyer myself.

If Im on the fence about something myself and I get pitched on something and decide to pull the trigger based on that, I typically find myself months later re-evaluating if I actually did the right thing and pointing out all the "bad" or negative in the purchase and how I should have been more careful in my selection. Sort of a mini buyers remorse if you will.

So I see it from the purchaser, and seller, point of view.

I now spend my time only selling to those who are ready to buy. People at the bottom of the funnel already ( BoFu ). I've played the game of follow ups and reframing and different tactics AND I've played the new game of selling to the right people at the right time who have the money. There is more traction on focusing on the right people/right time.

I've learned it takes the same amount of time selling a $10,000 website, as it does a $1k website.. so why not sell the $10k one? And yes it's true, the people that end up buying the $1k website tend to be your worst overall customers too.

Hundreds of websites built, thousands of marketers taught in my SaaS, and millions in products sold for myself and for my SEO/PPC clients over the last 23 years and it's the same pattern and results in all of those examples over and over again. Sometimes I am in charge of the sales, sometimes others are.

And one thing has stayed the same. People are only ready to buy when they are ready and most can't be "retaught".

The ones that can be retaught, most times will nit pick things to death and micro manage everything past that.

It's like the saying, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear" - When the buyer is ready is the money will appear. But spending your time trying to reframe someone that is not ready typically doesn't work well. Sure you will get more sales from this, but the time spent could have been used instead in closing one $10k customer instead of 3 more $1k customers... know what I mean?

The only ones it does work well on, are the ones ready to buy anyways ( or close to that bottom funnel BoFu layer ) and more than likely didn't need the whole SPIN selling to begin with.

I want to focus on the dollars, not the dimes. Therefor, I don't try to spend more time "selling" to the low end customers and SPINNING them to try to convince them. I just go right for the higher end and spend my time there.

.
 
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maxkoss

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-To help understand what options I should be looking at can you take about what business goals you are hoping to hit the next 3/6/12 months?
- And right now how behind on those are you? What kinda of gains do you need to see??
- And how much do you think the right website could help with that plan???
Hey, Rob! Thanks for your insightful response! This is a very good point to link their problem with a real dollar!
I'm just a little bit concerned if they would be willing to discuss with me such issues. Do you have any advice on how to build enough trust before moving to this king of questions?

Thanks!
 

Steeltip

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
Man, from my experience being in sales there is nothing that you can do about this sort of customer. We have a saying in the car business "the only things we cant overcome are ignorance and poverty." It sounds like your process was spot on from what I understand. Though this customer just has no idea of the going rate of these types of services.

This is exactly the type of situation in which I would "invoice" a customer. If there is ever any ignorance about the going rate of service or price of an item. You should give them a little bit of hard proof to demonstrate the work it takes to get something like a website done. Pull up competitors' prices/quotes and show them that this is the same everywhere they go. Show them the back end of the website and the amount of manpower/knowledge it takes to build a website. Explain that the kind of website they could make on Wix doesn't even hold a candle to your expertise on copy printing and advertising and SEO that they need to run a successful website. The customer needs HARD EVIDENCE THAT THEY CAN SEE in order for you to get your point across. People don't give half a f*ck about what you say to them it's about what they can SEE. Pull up facts and figures about how they are losing so much business to competitors without having a website.

Also, you can uncover problems which is FANTASTIC don't get me wrong, but you also need to ask questions that create problems for them. Such as "You have clearly done quite well as an office with no website, it's not easy to run a successful dental practice so clearly you're doing something right by getting this much referral traffic. Though have you ever considered expanding the practice? Have you noticed how some practices have gained three or four new offices in half the time you have even been open? Well, that is to do with the fact that they can give so much more information about their services and can prospect for new business."

These types of questions you will learn to ask just by doing your fact-finding over time don't appear overnight. But keep hitting doors and prospecting, as we say in the business "turn and burn" these people will likely not buy at this point because of sticker shock. Though hopefully you can be armed in the future for these types of encounters.

I would also HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Never Split the Difference as a booK where you can learn a whole lot about negotiating and deal with people who low ball you.
 

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Hey, Rob! Thanks for your insightful response! This is a very good point to link their problem with a real dollar!
I'm just a little bit concerned if they would be willing to discuss with me such issues. Do you have any advice on how to build enough trust before moving to this king of questions?

Thanks!

If you got to talk about problems this should not be much harder or any harder.

Just naturally transition to their goals.

One way to think about this is you already covered one side of the coin - what they don't want:
- their issues
- their problems
- their challenges

Now you are just covering the other side - what they do want:
- their goals
- their revenue targets
- the potential for gains and improvements

So since you got to ask about one side already you should be fine bringing up the other.

Overall though some general good ways to build trust:
- ask great questions that show you really want to help
- listen well and look for the right topics to ask more about
- be authentic and give them the best advice possible even if it goes against your own immediate self interests
- if it makes sense you can add in some lessons/principles learned from past clients you helped

I find in general that just keeping the focus on them builds a lot of trust too. We all want to work with people who genuinely are interested in helping us and who focus fully on us and our problems/goals.
 

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Kevin88660

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
I don’t really what is going through in their mind. If they are simply assuming that “what you are doing is easy” even when they don’t know the field then they are just not the right customer for you.

From a consumer perspective the biggest fear is being paid for a huge premium feature that is not really necessary. When you pitch that the 3000 dollar product is superior, but to the consumer the cost is certain but the extra reward is doubtful. It is what you say and they don’t really know if it is true. Choosing the cheaper option is more than often a safe choice of not getting ripped off. And when you try to educate them too much their ego come into play and they will pretend that they know your stuff and tell you “what you do is easy”.

Don’t get too upset over “what you actually did wrong”. Sales books tend to market themselves as some sort of secret ingredient to get the client to say yes, and in reality is a softer version of “get rich book” targeted at sales people. Top sales people do not have higher closing ratio than average sales people facing the same quality pool of leads, and it is mainly the hardwork on the numbers and effort (follow up) that make the difference. There is no easy solution to a hard problem. As much as business and sales people here complain about customer being cheapskate, when it is their turn to hire pa and asking for advice on crm software they prefer cheap pa and free software.
 
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Tell them there's a difference between a static website and a community driven one.
Sure you can have a splash page or simple site with information built for a few hundred dollars (or much less)
But.. and here's the big but.

With crap websites comes crap security.
They are a medical office, ask them how much they would pay if they paid someone to slap together a website full of security holes and their database was leaked. This is what they face.

Right now there's a company I know currently crapping bricks
They cheapened out on security and built a website from word-press and store ALL their sensitive files in it. Everything from W2 to company secrets, dental records and more leaked on the web because they wanted to save a few hundred dollars.

I found their files just browsing the web. The person building the website didn't know what they were doing and indexed their files, which are viewable to the wold with a click.
As a doctor they should understand the importance of personal information, especially files which guarantee lawsuits because they wanted to save a Benjamin.

It sounds like this doctor is facing the same thing, mistaking a static webpage for confidential doctor/client privileged meetings, notes about patients, and a collaborative platform to book clients? Golly Goldilocks I can hear the lawyers dancing the jig from over here.

Tell them if they don't care about security then you want nothing to do with their project,
be prepared to walk. Not every job is worth taking.
 

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I don’t really what is going through in their mind. If they are simply assuming that “what you are doing is easy” even when they don’t know the field then they are just not the right customer for you.

From a consumer perspective the biggest fear is being paid for a huge premium feature that is not really necessary. When you pitch that the 3000 dollar product is superior, but to the consumer the cost is certain but the extra reward is doubtful. It is what you say and they don’t really know if it is true. Choosing the cheaper option is more than often a safe choice of not getting ripped off. And when you try to educate them too much their ego come into play and they will pretend that they know your stuff and tell you “what you do is easy”.

Don’t get too upset over “what you actually did wrong”. Sales books tend to market themselves as some sort of secret ingredient to get the client to say yes, and in reality is a softer version of “get rich book” targeted at sales people. Top sales people do not have higher closing ratio than average sales people facing the same quality pool of leads, and it is mainly the hardwork on the numbers and effort (follow up) that make the difference. There is no easy solution to a hard problem. As much as business and sales people here complain about customer being cheapskate, when it is their turn to hire pa and asking for advice on crm software they prefer cheap pa and free software.
I agree with lots of this.
Top sales people do not have higher closing ratio than average sales people facing the same quality pool of leads
But this is demonstrably false. As one example, telemarketing companies have top sales people, and that's just randomized smile and dial. They often have systems to identify and segregate their best sales people onto their best campaigns.

One big difference between the top sales people and the rest is confidence. Besides that there are many paths to becoming a top salesperson, and I think @Fox had excellent advice there.

Perhaps sales books haven't helped you, and I agree that sales books are totally written to make the author money, but I think I've only ever read 1 sales book where I didn't learn anything. I "always" glean some tidbit to sharpen my skill. For reference, I've read about 20 total, most of them 20+ years ago. Maybe today's sales books are garbage, or maybe you're reading the wrong authors, idk.

My point is let's not diminish the skill called "selling". It is a skill and it can be taught and learned and most importantly, practiced and improved.
 

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I agree with lots of this.

But this is demonstrably false. As one example, telemarketing companies have top sales people, and that's just randomized smile and dial. They often have systems to identify and segregate their best sales people onto their best campaigns.

One big difference between the top sales people and the rest is confidence. Besides that there are many paths to becoming a top salesperson, and I think @Fox had excellent advice there.

Perhaps sales books haven't helped you, and I agree that sales books are totally written to make the author money, but I think I've only ever read 1 sales book where I didn't learn anything. I "always" glean some tidbit to sharpen my skill. For reference, I've read about 20 total, most of them 20+ years ago. Maybe today's sales books are garbage, or maybe you're reading the wrong authors, idk.

My point is let's not diminish the skill called "selling". It is a skill and it can be taught and learned and most importantly, practiced and improved.
It depends what you mean by selling. And I dont diminish the skill of selling.

To be more exact my take is any book or strategy that tells you they can boost your sales result through increasing the conversion ratio, targeted at the same quality of leads, without changing the original pitch/offer, is likely to be highly delusional in today’s competitive space where consumers are spoilt with choices. That’s why I think they belong to the category of “shortcut scams”.

Unless you are absolutely new in sales, you can only improve your communication, persuasion skill to a certain extend and changing the script, line, communication technique you use will not matter that much.

I think the biggest improvement in sales are strategies taken at a systematic level. If you cannot close a customer into buying a 3000 dollar worth of solution, the angle I am looking at is where do I meet more potential prospects to make the numbers so that the sales eventually happen because I will meet people who understand this and see the value, or I can build a leads generation system through closing a low commitment small deal, and slowly build the trust to closing a bigger deal next time. It just take more time, more numbers and more work and there is no easy solution to a difficult problem.
 

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Tell them there's a difference between a static website and a community driven one.
Sure you can have a splash page or simple site with information built for a few hundred dollars (or much less)
But.. and here's the big but.

With crap websites comes crap security.
They are a medical office, ask them how much they would pay if they paid someone to slap together a website full of security holes and their database was leaked. This is what they face.

Right now there's a company I know currently crapping bricks
They cheapened out on security and built a website from word-press and store ALL their sensitive files in it. Everything from W2 to company secrets, dental records and more leaked on the web because they wanted to save a few hundred dollars.

I found their files just browsing the web. The person building the website didn't know what they were doing and indexed their files, which are viewable to the wold with a click.
As a doctor they should understand the importance of personal information, especially files which guarantee lawsuits because they wanted to save a Benjamin.

It sounds like this doctor is facing the same thing, mistaking a static webpage for confidential doctor/client privileged meetings, notes about patients, and a collaborative platform to book clients? Golly Goldilocks I can hear the lawyers dancing the jig from over here.

Tell them if they don't care about security then you want nothing to do with their project,
be prepared to walk. Not every job is worth taking.

amazing example of a natural sales conversation. It builds a concrete reason to spend more using a story and examples.
 

MichelCheret

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
Hi Max,

I'm in the Webdesign Lead Generation Business and I see this alot. Customers who only see the price and don't see the difference between a $500 and $3000 website.
These days it's more difficult to find customers who value your hard work and don't understand why a website should cost more than people their rent. This is because Wix, Shopify and all sorts of these initiatives are taking a part of the market where people with lower budgets can operate.

Maybe the advice down below could help you:
  • Define your perfect customer: industry, type of business, budget and so on
  • Make a list of potential customers in your area you value as being the perfect customer
  • Cold-call or place an ad on Facebook / Google Ads defined to your perfect customer
  • If you are invited to their office, don't talk right away about price, but find the problem they are having now: like, finding more customers to their current website or their website don't perform that well
  • Explain why you are the expert
  • If they don't agree with your price, see if you can find a middleground, or walk away and don't spend anymore time and energy on them
 

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People have probably already said this but here is my take as a 15 year website veteran:
Thank them, and run away. Now you know what a shit client looks like.

One of the most valuable lessons I learned in the business is when a guy told me to look at my client list every year and fire my clients that caused 80% of the hassles and labor but only provided 20% of the revenue. The 80/20 ratios are never exact, but you get my point.

Clients in the $15,000 to $50,000 range are much easier to deal with. Trust me.

Are you just starting out? I ask because I'm not sure what stage your business is in. I sold my first website for 5 grand, and that was 15 years ago. I found at that time that anyone serious would pay at least that much. Over time I found the $10,000 to $30,000 clients were much better, they already did their research, they knew what they wanted, they knew the market pricing, and their expectations were more in alignment with the services I provided.
 
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PapaGang

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My point is let's not diminish the skill called "selling". It is a skill and it can be taught and learned and most importantly, practiced and improved.
Absolutely.
Sales is a skill. And those who are great at it are very wealthy because they provide so much value.
 

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They're uneducated, so rather than pass them off I would have still tried to sell it (as long as they wouldn't be total pita clients).

Build value, confident closing language (which sounds like you did) and I like to trial close to get rid of objections before delivering price. Bit like a summary of what they're wanting and if they have any other queries other than the price related to the product/service.

And my fave line when dealing with a price objection when your price is fair and theirs is unrealistic is educating them on the difference between "buying a product/service and getting what you pay for are two different things. If it doesn't do what it's supposed to do are you prepared to lose that money AND time on the ultra cheap option?"

But really I prefer: trying to get their price range thoughts beforehand with a form of ranges ie less than 1k, 1k to 3k, 3to 5, 5 to 10 etc (less than 1k or 1 to 3k then move on without wastingbt i'l me) and just using super confident language, trial close. Sometimes leave a pause/hold before doing the actual close. Go over the value again in a summary before closing with price confidently.
 

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Very long responses, I was tired reading it, just ask them 2 questions:
1 - Why they need website
2 - Why price range 500-1000
Than tell them what you can for do for 1000 and for 2000-3000, show examples and explain what they get after paying higher price for quality website.
If they have money - they will choose better option otherwise move on.
 

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I didn't read it all but an online booking system that works efficiently is quite a bit of work, something that could justify $3000.

As the price range is around $1000 you could offer them a static website that converts the information they want to portray with just a simple contact info part.

If you can't sell for high prices you can always offer different tiers for less. Something you could whip up fairly quickly
 

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The problem in this thread is that we're confused about what we're doing.

What are we doing here? Trying to be the freelancer that works harder and longer for cheaper—or maybe the savvy sales-oriented freelancer that convinces them to buy for $3,000 and then realizes that the client takes $5,000 worth of our time and energy, or are we trying to be the professional that attracts clients and referrals because we do great work and are committed to operational excellence?

If you are committed to providing more than $500 worth of value, then these people aren't your people. Move on.

Everyone gets confused by marketing and sales by aiming to convert everyone. That doesn't work. Forget it. You don't need everyone. You only need a few. You only need your people. MJ started a thread about this very thing and uses Oregano's as a case study about developing a Productocracy. The productocracy PULLS people to you. You don't need a different sales script. You just need trust from someone who gets what you are doing. Then the word gets out and the inbox starts to fill.

Commit to that, and surrender the compulsion to "be something for everyone," which is a myth, and you'll be okay. You will find more value in figuring out how to attract the clients you really want, who will appreciate your work and pay you more for it.

There is nothing to learn by trying to convert these people, except that if you cave and do the work for cheap (or even if you convince them to buy for $3,000, which is worse because they will expect more than 3k worth of work), you will learn the error of taking on a client like that. The riskiest thing you can do is make average stuff for average people and pitch it to the masses.

Of course, this is all your choice. Maybe taking on clients like this is really what you want. And if so, that's ok too. Because if you are entrepreneurial, maybe you sell it for $500 and pay some coder on Fiverr $200 to do it and keep the cream off the top. Either way, you have made a real decision on the future of your business and how it will look 5 years down the road.

Of course, I could be completely wrong here.
I do wish you the best of luck on building the business.
 
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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
That's a very interesting situation! Have you eventually closed the deal? If so, for how much and would it be possible for you to share your proposal that got closed?

From your message it's not clear why they need a website.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients.
So what? Do they understand why they need to list all their services and tell about them to their clients? If they don't do that does that really impact their business?

The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality.
Doesn't sound like a real problem to me. Maybe you could uncover how that struggle impacts their business?

Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services.
How crucial is that for them? If they don't do that what will happen in 1-5 years?

"Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range."
I think this is how they valued what you proposed to them or maybe HOW you proposed.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos).
This book is great! I listen to it time to time.
I think this book describes your exact situation in "Chapter 6. Preventing Objects", subchapter "Advantages and Objections"

Actual quote from the book:
“As you can see, the fundamental problem that’s causing the objection is that the seller offered a solution before building up the need. The buyer doesn’t feel that the problem has enough value to merit such an expensive solution. Consequently, when the seller gives the Advantage, the buyer raises an objection.”

Excerpt From: Neil Rackham. “SPIN Selling.” Apple Books.


Responses to your other posts:

The results might be:
— a clear picture of what they offer, how it works, and how to take action, so they can stop answering all these questions on the phone and email. (saving time and building trust)
— they can stop manually tracking all the customers, schedule and transactions by implementing Online Booking on their website. (saving time and reducing workload and stress)
— they can start competing with other businesses in their niche by having a properly built web presence (getting new clients)
It is still not clear why your prospect will value those results.

This is a very interesting question! I can not guarantee that they will save or earn more than $3000. But I'm pretty sure they will recoup their investment in the first week or two.
Definitely, giving guarantees will raise the price but it's still important to be sure that they value what they get more than $3000.
 

Onakosa

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Sounds like they are concerned/uncertain as to how a website will actually get them results. This can be tough as they have never had a website or any social media before. I believe a deal can still be made if you wish to pursue this project, but it is also okay to refuse a project if you simply cannot do it for less than $3000.

I will say that I sometimes do the cheaper jobs, but it depends on the clients/situation. If they are someone who is well connected and can give you referrals and a good testimonial it could be worthwhile. But, sometimes a project isn't worth it. I'm still figuring this all out too.

I forget who first said it, but there is a saying that goes something like, "The clients who pay the least are often the clients who are the most difficult to work with." I believe there is some truth to that.
I can confirm that the last paragraph is 100% true.
 

Chris McCarron

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Hey guys! Just wanted to share with you my sales meeting conversation that took place yesterday and ask for your opinion.

So, I got referred to a medical office by a fellow doctor I worked with earlier. They were interested in creating a website for their medical office. We arranged an in-person meeting and started the conversation.

I'm using the SPIN selling technique (huge shoutout to Rob O'Rourke for introducing this book in his videos). I'm starting the conversation with situational/informational questions to learn about the business. I learn that the medical office has been working for 12 years and never had a website / Instagram / Facebook. I'm digging deeper and trying to uncover any issues and frustrations they have by operating a business without any web presence.

I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients. The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality. Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering.

To keep the long story short I summarize all the things we talked about and say: "Considering this, this and that your website is going to be $3000. Are you comfortable with this price?". They said: "Oh, this is too expensive! We were thinking it's gonna be in a $500 — $1000 range." And then they started to ask why is it so expensive. I explained to them that they can definitely find a website for $500 but it's not gonna be the same website as a $3000 one. I tried to explain again that for this $3000 we are going to build a website that can bring them real results and make their work easier, not just pretty blocks and images. But they insisted that this is too expensive and all I do is moving blocks from one place to another and this is easy to do.

They said that they have to think about it and they will call me in a week. I felt very disappointed by this meeting because at some stage of the conversation I felt like I'm doing well and they trust me and understand the value I bring. And after they said $500 I felt like it's almost impossible to bring it back to $3000.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with these scenarios? Does anybody have this kind of conversation with their clients? Maybe you see any mistakes I made during the conversation? Just wanted to hear your opinion!

Thank you!
Max
It's a very common problem with web design (and design as a whole).

They're more than likely going to be a bad client. However, there are a few things you can do:

1) Qualify them first - You don't want to offer them all the bells and whistles if it isn't what they need - simply ask what their budget is

2) Send deliverables with more information about the design process, the clients you work with, testimonials and the results you achieve

3) Frame the price by asking what results they expect and what that means in terms of revenue

4) Write the price in a proposal and use an itemised list (i.e. 1-hour strategy call, wireframe design, installation of SEO plugins etc). Again, frame the price. This time use conversion techniques such as the size of the font, removal of currency symbols, have your telephone number above the sum etc

5) If they want a $500 website, then you can always deliver a $500 website (within reason)
 

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Hey Max I think you missed a step here.

"I discover that they are struggling by the fact that there is no place where they can list all their services and tell about them to their clients.

The second thing I uncover is that they are struggling to keep track of the clients and they would love to use an online booking functionality.

Also, they would love to attract the right clients who can afford their services. They were listening to me very carefully and I felt like they were understanding the value I was offering."


Okay so cool you got 3 problems here...
- no place where they can list all their services (sales)
- struggling to keep track of the clients (systems)
- attract the right clients (marketing)

You then jump from talking about these problems to the price you would like to work with - $3,000.

That price sounds quite fair but you missed a step...

- You don't know what it is costing them to have those issues right now
- You don't know what it will be worth to them and their business to have them fixed
- You don't know their current cashflow/budget available to work on this

You got the data but there isn't any dollar amounts attached to it.

If you want 3k you got to balance it out with numbers on the other side.
- how much they are behind on their goals $$$
- how much a customer could have been worth to them every time they lose one $$$
- how much a great website with a dialled in system could be helping them out each month $$$

Without asking the above questions you both know they have a problem but not what the problem is worth to them to fix it. You are thinking of one figure in your mind (backed by your experience and perspective) but in their minds they might value that problems as being not a big deal at all - at least compared to other areas where they could be spending their money. So what you see as a problem worth 3k to fix they might see as no big deal - you got to build up the sale more before moving to asking about the budget.

To get paid now (and to make it 3k) you need to show why it needs to be fixed now and why 3k is a great amount.

You do this by linking problems with real dollar amounts of focusing on what they gain by fixing the problem but also what they keep on losing by not fixing the problem. This create a strong need, urgency and a logical reason to invest at a higher amount than they originally had planned to.

How to do this:
Next time after you have asked about problems and before you talk budget ask a few questions like...

- What percentage of sales do you think the website helps with each month right now?
- And what percentage do you think a great website could be doing if it was all set up right??
- Okay, so that is a gap of _____ % - so just to know what is at stake here how much is that in dollars roughly???


Or...

-To help understand what options I should be looking at can you take about what business goals you are hoping to hit the next 3/6/12 months?
- And right now how behind on those are you? What kinda of gains do you need to see??
- And how much do you think the right website could help with that plan???


Those are just examples but the logic is you are connecting their current real problems with current real numbers.

Then when you mention your 3k budget it is being compared to what they are losing out on (a BIG amount) and not being compared to something small like a $500 WIX website they saw last year.

In short:
> connect their problems with real dollar amounts
> start linking those together in their mind so there is a clear big issue with a lot of real dollars at stake of being lost
> then use that big number to make your budget look very reasonable and fair (which it should be)

Hope that helps.

And THERE it is ^^^^^^

You are NOT selling a website - you are selling a system. You are selling a process. The ONLY reason they will buy your system is to GET a process that will PRODUCE results. Period.

Think of it this way. A warehouse of 3,000 sf may cost you $200,000. Is that a good buy? If it meets your NEEDS, yes it is. On the other hand, that same building in a prime location that is USED instead to sell pizza or hamburgers may MAKE the owner over $10,000 a week. Or a lot more. So is it worth paying double what that warehouse costs? If you run the numbers and find that you are clearing $4,000 a week after all expenses have been paid, then that building costs you NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. It is only a cost that is NECESSARY to make a lot of money. If it makes a lot of money, it is not a cost at all. It is an income-producing ASSET.

Until the post from Fox, I didn't see any cost/benefit analysis. Anyone can make a website. Will it be seen? Will it be effective? What benefit will it deliver- and I want REAL dollars and cents benefits, as Fox summarized.

If the website costs $30,000 to build is that too much money to spend? If it makes me $100,000 a month - I don't know - you tell me. Give me a dozen.

Too many posts here rag on the customer. The customer has NO idea of what they are buying because nothing was explained to them. Red Flag - everyone that knows how to tune in and read a customer should immediately see that the customer is totally in the dark. They probably think that if they make a cute website, the sales are going to start rolling in the next week. Is a website like a plant - just pop it in the dirt, water it, and wait? Yeah - if only it was that easy.

I have built about ten websites. My first one was all about style. It did nothing and therefore was worth exactly what it produced - nothing. My current website sells the exact same service and gets me a steady stream of customers calling me. It could be greatly improved - but at least it does something other than sitting there and look pretty. It's the results that matter.

If your customer sees a website as an electronic billboard - which many actually are - they are exactly right about it being a bunch of boxes in a group that creates an image. If that's what you're selling, then your competition is the pretty bunch of boxes website makers. They don't do much - but they're cheap.

Find out who is the cheapest in their business, and why that is. Then do the same for the most expensive. Then figure out what is missing in the equation, and figure out how to fill that missing part. Speak the language of BUSINESS - what will it DO for them?

Sell a product (pretty website) or a marketing process. They both look the same but are far from being the same.
 
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Ivex

New Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Mar 26, 2021
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I deal with this daily when selling shoutouts on my page or larger SMM services. After a while I just found it was so much better mentally for me to say that's the price - take it or leave it (you can put it more politely than that) and then if they don't take it almost immediately, end the negotiation.

Focus on the next client.
 

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