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How to Charge Clients Properly?

Beerbread

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THE NAME IS LITERALLY PEOPLE PER HOUR

Jesus Christ

Yeah maybe don’t use freelancing sites bro

I think you're onto something.

Honestly, it doesn't hurt to explore other outlets. If you have no luck with Upwork, try something like Craigslist or Facebook groups. Especially if you've been throwing rocks at something for 4-6 weeks and you got no reaction, move on somewhere else. That's what happened to me and in the end, I ended up tapping into my own network for work.

Edit: Another thing that might help is this book, "LINGO: Discover Your Ideal Customer's Secret Language and Make Your Business Irresistible" by Jeffrey Shaw. He goes into depth on going to the places where your ideal customer is and how they also find you.
 
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ProcessPro

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That's something that I noticed while I was working as an employee with a team. It's going to sound arrogant, but I felt way ahead of most people in terms of my ability to code. Some people who were 10+ years older than me and with more experience even started to ask for my advices.


1. Yes. And also finding quality clients, but as I understand it goes hand in hand with self-esteem because high self-esteem freelancers find high self-esteem clients which creates a high quality business relationship.
2. Bounderies in general. It's also a little more difficult for me IRL.
Ah, okay.

Let's start with #2. I have two questions: 1) What got you to a 5-6 - how were you able to achieve that? 2) Make a list of 30 times you exercised boundaries, no matter how small. Looking for your response.
 

Gapple

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Ah, okay.

Let's start with #2. I have two questions: 1) What got you to a 5-6 - how were you able to achieve that? 2) Make a list of 30 times you exercised boundaries, no matter how small. Looking for your response.
I will respond, but not immediately.

Out of curiosity, you mentioned previously that you are a third-worlder. In this context, how do you find your clients? Are they all from abroad? Do you cold email or use some platforms?
 

ProcessPro

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I will respond, but not immediately.

Out of curiosity, you mentioned previously that you are a third-worlder. In this context, how do you find your clients? Are they all from abroad? Do you cold email or use some platforms?
No probs.

Just Upwork for now. I recently started learning about inbound marketing, so that's my next plan.
 
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GoodluckChuck

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Forget about what you think a website should cost. It's all about what your customer will gain from your work.

If you can produce a website that will do what you're customer wants it to do, what do they have to gain? How much are they willing to pay to gain that?

It's your job as a salesperson to find out the answer to that question.

Any customer who is complaining about your price per page is looking at the website as an expense, not an investment. If they can't see it as an investment , they aren't a good customer.

Now, let me ask you: Do you build websites or do you get results?

I don't know about you, but none of my customers really want a website. They buy websites from me because they think the website will bring them more customers. Therefore, I don't sell websites. I sell systems that generate customers. It just do happens that the tool I use to generate customers is a website.

Even knowing that, I still can't help but feel emotional when pricing sometimes. I feel like I'm charging a ton and maybe more than I could pay. But I remind myself that it isn't about me. It's about my customer. They have their own dreams and ambitions and it's my job to help them make those a reality. If a 500 dollar website won't be enough to do what they want, then I'm doing them a disservice selling them that. They need a high end selling system so I better price accordingly so I can deliver that.
 

ProcessPro

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Does it work well? How much are you able to make?
Upwork is competitive. This week I actually went over my stats on the platform for the first time. Over the year I've been there, I've sent out about 145 high-quality proposals. I've gotten 27 responses (roughly 1 out of 5), and of those 27 responses, 11 became paying clients (roughly 1 out of 3).

Of those 11, one has had repeat business and I've made over $3k from him, and another turned into a full-time job which offers me lots of leverage. I make just $1500 per month, but it works out well in my currency, and I work less than 1-2 hours a day. Great platform for growing something else.
 
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Gapple

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Upwork is competitive. This week I actually went over my stats on the platform for the first time. Over the year I've been there, I've sent out about 145 high-quality proposals. I've gotten 27 responses (roughly 1 out of 5), and of those 27 responses, 11 became paying clients (roughly 1 out of 3).

Of those 11, one has had repeat business and I've made over $3k from him, and another turned into a full-time job which offers me lots of leverage. I make just $1500 per month, but it works out well in my currency, and I work less than 1-2 hours a day. Great platform for growing something else.
750$ / month is already good for where I live, most people never even get there, so 1500$ / month is phenomenal for an average person in my country.

However, if I want increase the quality of my life and pay the monthly subscriptions that I'm planning to, I need to shoot for more.

How are you able to work for 1 - 2 hours / day and still make that much?
 

Gapple

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Ah, okay.

Let's start with #2. I have two questions: 1) What got you to a 5-6 - how were you able to achieve that? 2) Make a list of 30 times you exercised boundaries, no matter how small. Looking for your response.
1.

My self-esteem has always been pretty for as long as I can remember. As a kid, I was probably mostly around 3 (very shy, couldn't talk to most people). Then I grew up and developed to maybe a 5 in high school, then in college I met some people and their presence help me to develop to maybe 6 - 7. However, after college I started to work in a company, and the environment was so toxic that my self-esteem fell to maybe 4. I felt that the authorities were incompetent, but couldn't do anything, had no right to say anything that would contradicts their opinion. I would also very easily get criticized by them. That's what pushed me to freelancing (and also some childhood dreams), and in freelancing I had so choice but to push myself to get clients, and this is what got me to 5 - 6. But, my general self-esteem for this first year of freelancing was still low, so I got exploited (or more precisely allowed myself to get exploited) by clients.

2.

1. First time, I went to a shop to buy something
2. First time I made a presentation in front of an audience
3. First time I made a presentation in a theater in front of a pretty huge audience in English
4. First time I played in a theater
5. When I quit my country to go study abroad with almost 0 knowledge of the city
6. When I did a 3 month internship in the UK, where I had to communicate almost everyday in English
7. Living with 7 roommates in the same house in the UK
8. First time I went to a night club
9. When I said to my mom and sister that I loved them
10. When I said to my dad why I disliked him and that he was the reason why I wanted to quit the house (I consider him to be the root cause of many insecurities as he was quite tyrannical)
11. When I told "I quit" to my first boss after only 3 months because I was unfairly treated. I was supposed to stay at least 12 months, so it was basically a middle finger in his face
12. When I refused to wash the dishes of some of my coworkers
13. First time I communicated with a client
14. When I asked for more money in a project
15. Sharing about myself in this post

That's a list of what I currently have in mind. Looks like I still need to find 15 more items, if I can find them.
 

ProcessPro

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1.

My self-esteem has always been pretty for as long as I can remember. As a kid, I was probably mostly around 3 (very shy, couldn't talk to most people). Then I grew up and developed to maybe a 5 in high school, then in college I met some people and their presence help me to develop to maybe 6 - 7. However, after college I started to work in a company, and the environment was so toxic that my self-esteem fell to maybe 4. I felt that the authorities were incompetent, but couldn't do anything, had no right to say anything that would contradicts their opinion. I would also very easily get criticized by them. That's what pushed me to freelancing (and also some childhood dreams), and in freelancing I had so choice but to push myself to get clients, and this is what got me to 5 - 6. But, my general self-esteem for this first year of freelancing was still low, so I got exploited (or more precisely allowed myself to get exploited) by clients.

2.

1. First time, I went to a shop to buy something
2. First time I made a presentation in front of an audience
3. First time I made a presentation in a theater in front of a pretty huge audience in English
4. First time I played in a theater
5. When I quit my country to go study abroad with almost 0 knowledge of the city
6. When I did a 3 month internship in the UK, where I had to communicate almost everyday in English
7. Living with 7 roommates in the same house in the UK
8. First time I went to a night club
9. When I said to my mom and sister that I loved them
10. When I said to my dad why I disliked him and that he was the reason why I wanted to quit the house (I consider him to be the root cause of many insecurities as he was quite tyrannical)
11. When I told "I quit" to my first boss after only 3 months because I was unfairly treated. I was supposed to stay at least 12 months, so it was basically a middle finger in his face
12. When I refused to wash the dishes of some of my coworkers
13. First time I communicated with a client
14. When I asked for more money in a project
15. Sharing about myself in this post

That's a list of what I currently have in mind. Looks like I still need to find 15 more items, if I can find them.
Hi Gapple. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Damn! That's quite a list! I commend you, especially for facing your father and dealing with coworkers/bosses the way you have.

Two more questions:
1) Give that no one is perfect, and I don't expect anyone to be a perfect 10/10 all the time, where on the scale is sufficient for you?
2) What does +1 on the scale look like for you pragmatically - what will tell you that you've moved up a single point?
 
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Gapple

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Hi Gapple. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Damn! That's quite a list! I commend you, especially for facing your father and dealing with coworkers/bosses the way you have.

Two more questions:
1) Give that no one is perfect, and I don't expect anyone to be a perfect 10/10 all the time, where on the scale is sufficient for you?
2) What does +1 on the scale look like for you pragmatically - what will tell you that you've moved up a single point?
I think that a 1 to 10 scale is very inacurate, even a 1 to 100 scale is inacurate, in reality this scale is infinite. But let's stay with 1 to 10 for the moment.

1. 7 would be sufficient.
2. Being able to put myself more in front of people, being more assertive, not being afraid of clients, not prostituting myself to clients. Not having an imposter syndrome.
 

ProcessPro

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I think that a 1 to 10 scale is very inacurate, even a 1 to 100 scale is inacurate, in reality this scale is infinite. But let's stay with 1 to 10 for the moment.

1. 7 would be sufficient.
2. Being able to put myself more in front of people, being more assertive, not being afraid of clients, not prostituting myself to clients. Not having an imposter syndrome.
I think that a 1 to 10 scale is very inacurate, even a 1 to 100 scale is inacurate, in reality this scale is infinite. But let's stay with 1 to 10 for the moment.

1. 7 would be sufficient.
2. Being able to put myself more in front of people, being more assertive, not being afraid of clients, not prostituting myself to clients. Not having an imposter syndrome.
Hi Gapple.

You mentioned a few things there. Let's start with boundaries. It seems to me that you exercised courage here, which is a key ingredient to exercising boundaries:

3. First time I made a presentation in a theater in front of a pretty huge audience in English
13. First time I communicated with a client

And you actually exercised your boundaries here:
12. When I refused to wash the dishes of some of my coworkers
14. When I asked for more money in a project

How were you able to do that? Dig deep - what were you saying to yourself, how were you able to bring yourself to do those things?
 

Gapple

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Hi Gapple.

You mentioned a few things there. Let's start with boundaries. It seems to me that you exercised courage here, which is a key ingredient to exercising boundaries:

3. First time I made a presentation in a theater in front of a pretty huge audience in English
13. First time I communicated with a client

And you actually exercised your boundaries here:
12. When I refused to wash the dishes of some of my coworkers
14. When I asked for more money in a project

How were you able to do that? Dig deep - what were you saying to yourself, how were you able to bring yourself to do those things?
Here's what made me able to do that:

3. I really loved my subject, and really wanted to share and do the presentation. They were not much fear there, but a lot of passion
13. I would have to do it at a moment anyway to get started. The work was also pretty easy and we only communicated through text

12. It just felt unfair and morally wrong to be treated like a maid in a web development job. And also, I found it unfair to be treated like that only because I was the new young recruit. I thought that I should not let others dominate me and put boundaries between us
14. I got bored of working like a slave and earning peanuts. I could not continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family. So I was fearful for my future, and transformed that fear into courage
 
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ProcessPro

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Here's what made me able to do that:

3. I really loved my subject, and really wanted to share and do the presentation. They were not much fear there, but a lot of passion
13. I would have to do it at a moment anyway to get started. The work was also pretty easy and we only communicated through text

12. It just felt unfair and morally wrong to be treated like a maid in a web development job. And also, I found it unfair to be treated like that only because I was the new young recruit. I thought that I should not let others dominate me and put boundaries between us
14. I got bored of working like a slave and earning peanuts. I could not continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family. So I was fearful for my future, and transformed that fear into courage
Try making these notes on a piece of paper:
1) If anyone wants me to work like a slave and pay me unfair rates/peanuts, then
2) I will not let anyone pay me unfair rates and
Here's what made me able to do that:

3. I really loved my subject, and really wanted to share and do the presentation. They were not much fear there, but a lot of passion
13. I would have to do it at a moment anyway to get started. The work was also pretty easy and we only communicated through text

12. It just felt unfair and morally wrong to be treated like a maid in a web development job. And also, I found it unfair to be treated like that only because I was the new young recruit. I thought that I should not let others dominate me and put boundaries between us
14. I got bored of working like a slave and earning peanuts. I could not continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family. So I was fearful for my future, and transformed that fear into courage

Do you realize that you've already demonstrated the skills/behaviors you need to handle your biggest hurdle - setting boundaries with clients and demanding fair pay? If you've done it before, you can do it again - and each time you practice, you will get better at it.

I suggest that you make a note of this self talk on a small flash card and keep it on your person. Take a look at it to remind yourself that you've done it before, and you need just a moment of courage to request of clients what's only fair.

Taken from your response with light editing:
(it's) unfair and morally wrong to be treated like a maid in a web development job

I should not let others dominate me and (I should) put boundaries between us

(I will not) working like a slave and (for) earning peanuts

I could not (cannot) continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family


Let me know what you think.
 

Gapple

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Try making these notes on a piece of paper:
1) If anyone wants me to work like a slave and pay me unfair rates/peanuts, then
2) I will not let anyone pay me unfair rates and


Do you realize that you've already demonstrated the skills/behaviors you need to handle your biggest hurdle - setting boundaries with clients and demanding fair pay? If you've done it before, you can do it again - and each time you practice, you will get better at it.

I suggest that you make a note of this self talk on a small flash card and keep it on your person. Take a look at it to remind yourself that you've done it before, and you need just a moment of courage to request of clients what's only fair.

Taken from your response with light editing:
(it's) unfair and morally wrong to be treated like a maid in a web development job

I should not let others dominate me and (I should) put boundaries between us

(I will not) working like a slave and (for) earning peanuts

I could not (cannot) continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family


Let me know what you think.
Yes, you are right.

I already did that a few times in the past even if I was afraid, so what I need to do is to continue until it becomes a normal behavior in my system.

Makings these notes on a paper looks like a great idea, but I want to avoid the negative tone. I heard before that the brain have a tendency to turn things negatively and these statements looks more like an avoidance of negativity than a research of prosperity.

I'm thinking of something like this:
  • If anyone wants me to work like a slave and pay me unfair rates/peanuts, then I will not let anyone pay me unfair rates -> I'm taking 100% responsibility to search and find clients who will value my work and my life and will be willing to pay a high amount for it.
  • I should not let others dominate me and (I should) put boundaries between us -> I will put proper boundaries with people and only work with clients who are willing to pay well.
  • I (cannot) continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family -> My life is important and I will charge clients for my work in order to live a quality life, provide for myself and my family

By the way, I'm already reading a book on that and I'm planning to start reading another one soon.
 

ProcessPro

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Yes, you are right.

I already did that a few times in the past even if I was afraid, so what I need to do is to continue until it becomes a normal behavior in my system.

Makings these notes on a paper looks like a great idea, but I want to avoid the negative tone. I heard before that the brain have a tendency to turn things negatively and these statements looks more like an avoidance of negativity than a research of prosperity.

I'm thinking of something like this:
  • If anyone wants me to work like a slave and pay me unfair rates/peanuts, then I will not let anyone pay me unfair rates -> I'm taking 100% responsibility to search and find clients who will value my work and my life and will be willing to pay a high amount for it.
  • I should not let others dominate me and (I should) put boundaries between us -> I will put proper boundaries with people and only work with clients who are willing to pay well.
  • I (cannot) continue to work like this all my life because I would not be able to provide for myself and my family -> My life is important and I will charge clients for my work in order to live a quality life, provide for myself and my family

By the way, I'm already reading a book on that and I'm planning to start reading another one soon.
Great idea and love the updated self-messages. Let me know how it goes!
 
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Kal-El1998

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Yeah when they say they've been quoted way less before I always like to phrase my response to them in a way that makes them think of the two services like a Ford v Ferrari. Sure, could you get by with a ford? Yeah. Will you be moving as fast as a Ferrari though? No. That's the point you have to convey...almost like a reverse guilt trip they're trying to pull on you.
 

Cerno

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Hey there,

so I started freelancing a year ago and it has been a total disaster. I had difficulties to find clients and I also had huge self-esteem issues that hold me back.

I'm currently doing web development (mostly WordPress, Angular, and general HTML/CSS/Javascript) and when I need to give a price I always doubt myself a lot. On one hand I feel like if I charge more, it's good for me but unfair for the client. On the other hand when I charge less, I feel like I'm a good person because I'm kind with the client, but that's clearly not enough for me. The thing is that when I'm proposing a price often time the client will tell me that some people are proposing much less, therefore I don't know how to put a proper price.

I want to know, how much would you charge a client for:

- a 2 page WordPress website
- a 3 page WordPress website
- a 5 page WordPress website

I recently created a website for a client. It's a 3 page WordPress blog (home page, articles page, and article template), on-page SEO optimization is also included. I charged 100$ for that, but I feel like this is not enough and that $150 should be the minimum. I originally asked for 300$, but the client told me that it was way too much and that some people proposed him 50$ and 100$, so I aligned myself on 100$. However, I doubt the quality that other freelancers would provide where I personally put my soul into my work and give high-quality work.

How do you charge? How would you charge?
I have been a software and website developer for 20 years and I am sure of one thing. Unless the client hands you an extremely detailed scope of work with every function defined along with pixel perfect designs and graphics already produced for each page of the website, it is foolish to offer a specific price for a project.

Professional website developers will take a meeting to discuss a project for free and review a scope of work and determine if it is practical to give a specific quote. As most clients don't show up with an in-depth scope of work, you need to charge them at least $200 to prepare one for even the simplest of websites. I have charged as much as $2,000 to review an unfinished project and work up a scope of work. Web development agencies charge as much as $5,000 to do the same. If a client isn't willing to spend $200 to create a scope of work and spend at least $1,000 for a website you simply need to point them to a website platform like Wix. They can have a nice website and you won't waste your time on a project where you can't make a reasonable amount of money for your time.
 
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WowVisible

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Hey there,

so I started freelancing a year ago and it has been a total disaster. I had difficulties to find clients and I also had huge self-esteem issues that hold me back.

I'm currently doing web development (mostly WordPress, Angular, and general HTML/CSS/Javascript) and when I need to give a price I always doubt myself a lot. On one hand I feel like if I charge more, it's good for me but unfair for the client. On the other hand when I charge less, I feel like I'm a good person because I'm kind with the client, but that's clearly not enough for me. The thing is that when I'm proposing a price often time the client will tell me that some people are proposing much less, therefore I don't know how to put a proper price.

I want to know, how much would you charge a client for:

- a 2 page WordPress website
- a 3 page WordPress website
- a 5 page WordPress website

I recently created a website for a client. It's a 3 page WordPress blog (home page, articles page, and article template), on-page SEO optimization is also included. I charged 100$ for that, but I feel like this is not enough and that $150 should be the minimum. I originally asked for 300$, but the client told me that it was way too much and that some people proposed him 50$ and 100$, so I aligned myself on 100$. However, I doubt the quality that other freelancers would provide where I personally put my soul into my work and give high-quality work.

How do you charge? How would you charge?
Why not check your top competitors' pricing as well as the type of value they give? I'm sure this can give you a better idea of your pricing.
 

euphemiasore1@gm

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Hey there,

so I started freelancing a year ago and it has been a total disaster. I had difficulties to find clients and I also had huge self-esteem issues that hold me back.

I'm currently doing web development (mostly WordPress, Angular, and general HTML/CSS/Javascript) and when I need to give a price I always doubt myself a lot. On one hand I feel like if I charge more, it's good for me but unfair for the client. On the other hand when I charge less, I feel like I'm a good person because I'm kind with the client, but that's clearly not enough for me. The thing is that when I'm proposing a price often time the client will tell me that some people are proposing much less, therefore I don't know how to put a proper price.

I want to know, how much would you charge a client for:

- a 2 page WordPress website
- a 3 page WordPress website
- a 5 page WordPress website

I recently created a website for a client. It's a 3 page WordPress blog (home page, articles page, and article template), on-page SEO optimization is also included. I charged 100$ for that, but I feel like this is not enough and that $150 should be the minimum. I originally asked for 300$, but the client told me that it was way too much and that some people proposed him 50$ and 100$, so I aligned myself on 100$. However, I doubt the quality that other freelancers would provide where I personally put my soul into my work and give high-quality work.

How do you charge? How would you charge?
It will depend on the niche of the website.I would charge lowly for niches like beauty and parenting and charge high for Automative and Technical niches
 

euphemiasore1@gm

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Upwork is competitive. This week I actually went over my stats on the platform for the first time. Over the year I've been there, I've sent out about 145 high-quality proposals. I've gotten 27 responses (roughly 1 out of 5), and of those 27 responses, 11 became paying clients (roughly 1 out of 3).

Of those 11, one has had repeat business and I've made over $3k from him, and another turned into a full-time job which offers me lots of leverage. I make just $1500 per month, but it works out well in my currency, and I work less than 1-2 hours a day. Great platform for growing something else.
Upwork is a goldmine if you leverage it well. You need a lot of patience to make it on Upwork
 
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