How I hacked my dopamine to train and reward desired work behaviors and halt procrastination

[Bekit]

Great thread!

It remembered me of the following Ted talk:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMbvJNRpLE&list=PLIkVXqmA18VtkjVERFvEpDUK9rJWZk5We


He started with 5 to 10 minute blocks of focused work at a time and achieved some great things in life.

Oooh, I had not seen this one!

Great stuff!!

 

[biggeemac]

@Bekit we're still waiting on part 4

 

[Bekit]

I haven't forgotten about this. Just need a block of time to write out part 4.

@garyfritz when you described yourself in @ChrisV 's post on dopamine, I was thinking you were peeking into MY brain.

But yeah, you're right, it's not much consolation to realize that others have the same struggle, unless there are ways to address it effectively.

At the risk of stealing my thunder, the short answer to your questions is YES. I'll go into more detail when I write part 4. I guess the title of my thread is a giveaway, too.

The part of the brain that makes us uniquely human is the prefrontal cortex. In ADHD (or any self-control issue really,) this area isn't working nearly to the extent it should be. So the solution? Train yourself the same way you would any organism without a highly developed prefrontal cortex. Use the limbic system instead.

I think this is a big part of the reason why it works.

@Bertram, somewhere I seem to recall you saying that this kind of behavior is related to loneliness. I've pondered that frequently and have never heard anything about that connection before, but I'm intrigued to learn more. Can you elaborate? Have any articles to share on that?

 

[John D.]

Great thread!

...

He started with 5 to 10 minute blocks of focused work at a time and achieved some great things in life.

Thanks for introducing me to this Ted Talk, I feel like it's just what the doctor ordered for me.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

@Primeperiwinkle

I just watched it boss, 45 min ago. Ha.

 

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[reedracer]

Can that book help cure loneliness?

View: https://giphy.com/gifs/doll-my-buddy-3ohhwKIKGxbSnuRrSE

 

[BellaPippin]

Robot Check

Omg the elderly couple that took the photo with the banana looking to the other side, I cracked up

 

[being.simon]

Wow, you guys are cheap! I didn't get one offer for the long-awaited solution on how to get through the tough times. So, now I'm forced to give it away for free.
First, you anticipate and schedule your lapses. If I'm abstaining from fatty food, I schedule a binge on chocolate iced cream in 3 days. This way you retain a measure of control and don't get discouraged.
Second, you develop a supportive network of dependable people. This forum could work if a number (6-8 preferably) could be induced to commit. I'll volunteer if anyone else likes the idea.

Haha, I intuitively do the same. I've gotten pretty in touch with how much growth I can handle and when my bad pathways will strike again (they always do, even with "coincidental" shit like sickness, accidents, that new show releasing...it's all subconscious manifestation) and I will allow a conscious, deliberate lapse for a day or two before completely burning out. Seems to work quite well. Today I even pulled myself back out wihtin half a day. Lapses used to take 3 days to a full week.

 

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[TSM]

This is a really interesting approach. The part of the brain that makes us uniquely human is the prefrontal cortex. In ADHD (or any self-control issue really,) this area isn't working nearly to the extent it should be. So the solution? Train yourself the same way you would any organism without a highly developed prefrontal cortex. Use the limbic system instead.



This is brilliant.





Dope thread. If and when @MJ DeMarco ever gets the rep system back, I owe you some.

All mammals have a PFC - it's reptiles that don't. I think octopi must have an equivalent but that's another story.
For me, a big part of the ADD-style brain is that I don't quite decide what I'm going to do from one moment to next - I always give myself a little escape route. My solution is to set a productivity timer. This leaves me in no doubt about what I am intending to do and keeps me on track. The trick is to stop the activity when the timer tells me to.

Much as I have resisted the idea, there is a psychodynamic element to procrastination and lack of focus, especially around inner conflicts and lack of attunement from your caregivers when you're a little'un. Insight has almost no effect on behaviour though, so even if that is the case, it's important to find behavioural strategies that work. Tai Chi is great for ADDer.. but extremely hard for us to do

 

[ExaltedLife]

So how's it going after 10 days of die hard tagulating @ExaltedLife
Are the dopamine triggers working out for you?
I have lots of experience with this tagulator+dopamine trigger system since I read this thread. Gonna write some experiences down if there's still people following this.

It works great for short periods of time, and it makes me feel better about the work. I decided that today Im going to test it out with a longer period of time (80 mins) because I want to get into a flow state, which apparently takes up to 20 minutes of uninterrupted work to get into. So I want it to last at least an hour.

The best thing about it is that it makes work easy to start. You can say "hey im just gonna commit to 5 minutes for now". And then once you're working, its slightly easier to keep working.

That being said, I got heavy into meditation over the past week and I think that's key for improving focus. It is becoming much easier for me to dismiss unwanted distractions and to resist easy temptations (junk food, tv, video games).

It also puts me in a state where my mindset is more calm and organized. From this state, I am finding that I make better decisions overall, and that in turn is changing how I see things in general. I FEEL much more wealthy even though my financial state has barely changed.

So I would say if you're having focus problems, the tagulator is a good trick in the bag, but I would also highly recommend meditation.

 

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[MoneyHacker]

Following this thread!

 

[MyDuckets]

This is awesome - thank you!

 

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[ThaCopywriter]

I can't wait to see Part 4 here...
This is GOLD, my man!

 

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[S.Y.]

Absolutely amazing @Bekit. Absolutely terrific!

Your approach reminded me of Atomic Habits. The idea of creating a system of actions that are attractive and rewarding.

A lot to value in the book and in a way, a similar approach to what you are doing right now.

 

[Pat D. Rick]

Great thread!

It remembered me of the following Ted talk:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMbvJNRpLE&list=PLIkVXqmA18VtkjVERFvEpDUK9rJWZk5We


He started with 5 to 10 minute blocks of focused work at a time and achieved some great things in life.

This is actually one of my favourite Ted talks ever! Thank you for reminding me.

 

[ZCP]

Great thread!

It remembered me of the following Ted talk:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMbvJNRpLE&list=PLIkVXqmA18VtkjVERFvEpDUK9rJWZk5We


He started with 5 to 10 minute blocks of focused work at a time and achieved some great things in life.

@Primeperiwinkle

 

[Rabby]

Yea when not medicated / supplemented properly i'm pathologically retarded. I'll be working on a coding assignment and realize I just spent the last 4 hours perfecting my programming console theme.

I once spent an entire week making every coding symbol a perfect unicode one

View attachment 27143

Please go unmedicated on weekends and then share the amazing editor typography and configurations that you accidentally create with the rest of us.

 

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[BellaPippin]

Yes this is 100% me.

I’ve made a post about it in the past because I wasn’t able to think of a reward that really felt rewarding to my brain so that I could sit down and practice art more often, or just plain work on MY projects. Food doesn’t work, working out (haha), TV/Videogames don’t work, I can’t find my equivalent of your chocolate chips. It may be relevant that I’m diagnosed with depression so maybe that’s why nothing seems interesting? How “happy” do the chocolate chips make you feel? Like, I can tell my brain is hooked when I’m browsing Reddit, you know what I’m saying? Do the chips make you feel the same? I feel it’s not strong enough!

The closest I could get was painting things with the purpose of gifting because I like doing stuff for others but it didn’t last.

For the sound I have the clicker I use with my cat

Your thoughts?

 

[ChrisV]

@Bekit

He gets the science a little wrong and talks about dopamine like it's the pleasure chemical, but the overall concepts are cool.

 

[ProcessPro]

I've been using peanut butter m&m's and its working great. However, it only works great when I have a list of tasks that have "come to me." I.E. people message me or I have a project come in. I have an established business where people come to me, so I've been on cruise control working 1-2 hrs a day for quite a few months now.

This reward system doesn't help me do things to "progress" my business. I get done what "came to me" that day and then I feel like my list is over and I do nothing the rest of the day. Can't bring myself to build out my business or start a new one, partly because I don't even know what the next step is.

That's it... when I know what the next step is, I can use this reward system. When I have no idea, this doesn't work anymore.

Any thoughts?

You might have to incorporate things that you really crave as rewards, i.e. true rewards and make them contingent upon doing the work first. It's an additional challenge when you have to regulate the reward yourself. It would be better to have someone else be in control of that so as to reward you only when you've met your commitment. I'd give this some thought as a start.

 

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[BellaPippin]

I've been using peanut butter m&m's and its working great. However, it only works great when I have a list of tasks that have "come to me." I.E. people message me or I have a project come in. I have an established business where people come to me, so I've been on cruise control working 1-2 hrs a day for quite a few months now.

This reward system doesn't help me do things to "progress" my business. I get done what "came to me" that day and then I feel like my list is over and I do nothing the rest of the day. Can't bring myself to build out my business or start a new one, partly because I don't even know what the next step is.

That's it... when I know what the next step is, I can use this reward system. When I have no idea, this doesn't work anymore.

Any thoughts?

Idk how many things "come to you" but let's suppose that with good time management, would you be able to "pay yourself first" and use your fresh energy for an hour or two of working on your own stuff, ESPECIALLY rewarding yourself for this, then go on for the rest of the day?

 

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[BellaPippin]

Someone said gummy bears?

*jumps into room and looks so hopeful only to be horribly disappointed because this is just the internet...

Wait til you see these reviews

 

[BellaPippin]

I've been thinking about this as well. 1. I don't want to associate good habits with sugar and 2. I want to make the reward match the habit.
Right now I'm thinking about a system similar to Starbucks points or air miles.
Create a list of rewards, a massage, new shoes, an afternoon at the movies, a trip to Eirie to eat BBQ, etc.
Then assign points or stars to each reward and create rules to acquire the points.
5 minutes work = 1 star
Post a new product to your store = 2 Stars
Complete the feedback loop on a product = 5 stars, etc.
Make the reward achievable and the stars acquirable and be sure to spend the stars from time to time.
Continue with the sounds and yippees but replace the food with a star system.

Ok but do you like, DON'T do those things already? I feel anything I can think of is something I would normally do. Not like I do those things on the super regular because I'm trying to save but.. say do you not do them if you don't earn your stars? Is going to the movies THAT exciting that gets you going?

Someone check my pulse?

 

[ProcessPro]

It's a good time for me to discover this forum, great thread!

So I experimented a bit with the system myself, only thing I changed is instead of process oriented rewards (like rewarding onself for working 5 minutes) I tried product oriented rewards (finishing tasks) which I generally prefer.

The advantage I see in this is:
- It gives you an incentive to split tasks into sub tasks for which you can reward yourself upon completion. This makes your work more structured and further decreases procastrination. Probably the biggest plus for me.
- It gives you an incentive to get shit done fast, maybe even skip not so important tasks entirely, so you get your reward faster.

The disadvantage might be, that rewards are not as reliably frequent as with the time split approach.

So I don't know if this approach is really an improvement and I'm only at it for three days, but I'll continue experimenting. It's perhaps subjective, but in the past when I only focused on working rather than finishing stuff, I tended to be quite ineffecient ( although I tend to be quite inefficient in general lol)

I think this is a great idea. Keep us posted on how it's working for you. I'm personally interested. I'm going to try this approach myself.

 

[Tubs]

Can't wait to read part 4

 

[cjibjibson]

Thank you very much! that's really helpful!

 

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[Ben Taylor]

I haven't really had the opportunity to do this correctly yet, as in for a sustained period of time so the habit is built, but I definitely plan to now that I'm working from home for my slowlane job because the state's locked down. I tried it for the first time for real yesterday and all I can say is WOW. Thank you so much for this post Bekit!

 

[Miykoll]

Wow, I can relate so much in your posts.
What a blessing to find this piece of art today.

At the moment, I'm struggling hard, so I'm going to play your game.
Have the same problem at the moment. Clients are waiting for delivery and I'm procrastinating hard

Thank you for this great piece of writing.

(Definitely agree with the suggestion to put this into a book)

 

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[Raja]

for sure you are an amazing copywriter.

 

[Kal-El1998]

I know for me it was constantly having peoples words play over and over in my head about success not sleeping or stopping for several months. Since I've started my lead gen business I've felt guilty for every break I ever take (unless it's eating, working out, or sleeping for the night). I'm literally being productive for close to 14hrs of the day now. Breaks very, very minimal. <1 hr.