How I hacked my dopamine to train and reward desired work behaviors and halt procrastination

[Bertram]

I've been meaning to post this for a while now, thinking it might help other people. I'm also curious to know if other people have experimented with anything similar to this and gotten similar results.

This thread finally prompted me to write this down.

I invented a method for myself that has been extremely successful at building momentum and wins in getting work done.

This was born out of necessity. Failure to act has been my biggest downfall all my life.

Part 1: The Problem
I have skills, knowledge, and intelligence, but then I don't put them to use. I let myself pursue mindless distractions instead of work. I procrastinate. I get off track. I go into la-la-land. I engage in behaviors that are detrimental to my own best interest. Even while I'm seeing myself do it (and hating it), I don't find anything inside myself that gets me to actually change.

In other words, left to myself, in my natural state, I'm a walking, dysfunctional disaster. It's hard to believe that I've made it this far. Just a few small tweaks in some of the situations I've lived through, and I would probably be a homeless addict instead of someone on an upward trajectory towards the fastlane.

• I know I need to hustle, but I don't.
• I know I need to get moving, but I put if off, "just a little longer."
• I know I need to engage and take action, but I let fear and inaction paralyze me.

OK, so the question arises, HOW DO I GET LEVERAGE OVER MYSELF TO DO THE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO REACHING MY GOALS?

Because my goals are big, beautiful, amazing things.

And there's every reason why I should be able to reach them if I just put in consistent effort.

But that's the problem.

Where do I get the leverage over myself to exert that effort?

Well, to start with, here's what I've tried that has NOT worked.

1. Kicking myself doesn't work. NO amount of beating myself up, threatening myself, or setting up punishments for myself has ever worked. I've experimented with hardcore punishments, like depriving myself of food for an entire day if I don't do the thing I've set myself to do. And I've ruthlessly carried it out, too. But apparently, even hunger isn't big enough to scare me. I have never been able to terrorize myself, abuse myself, or shame myself into doing what I know I need to do.

2. Logic doesn't work. The threat of being homeless and starving if I don't get myself into gear is a logical thing, but it carries no leverage with it. Focusing on logic will increase my frustration with myself, but it won't make me behave any differently.

3. Pep talks and hype don't work. NO amount of emotional speeches, motivational content, or working myself up into a frenzy of positive optimism has ever worked. I get myself into this amazing, exhilarated frame of mind...and I expect that finally, THIS time, I'll finally rise up and DO the thing - and then something inside me always gets the better of me and I'm just like, "Nah. Why bother? I'm going to go on surfing the web for just a little longer."

4. Routine and structure only work to an extent. When I have managed to get myself into a very predictable routine, with lots of structure and accountability, I have tended to perform better. But the trouble is, that structure and routine has only ever come from an outside source. When it's up to ME to create that structure and routine for myself, I'm beating my head against a wall of futility. I'm like a tree trying to pull itself up by the roots. Because the nature of the problem is precisely that I'm lacking in the very self-discipline and self-governance that is prerequisite to creating that structure and regimen. And outside sources of structure and accountability can only go so far, because at the end of the day, YOU have to exercise your own internal locus of control. And where is that going to come from? Inside yourself. But where do you get that if it's missing? For me, this has been a perpetual cycle of defeat.

5. Examining my belief system hasn't worked. This issue, admittedly, has a lot to do with mindset and beliefs, but even when I have gotten my mindset and beliefs to be as healthy as I could possibly get them, it still didn't make a difference in my ACTION TAKING. Beliefs lead to action, so if your beliefs are false and your mindset is unhelpful, then they definitely need a makeover. But I had the advantage of being raised with principles that took me a long way: Take responsibility for your actions. Don't say, "I can't." I am responsible for my own choices. I don't let other people's actions dictate my response. But still, I find myself in this maddening bondage to dilly-dallying, self-sabotage, and procrastination.

6. Caffeine has only worked to a certain extent. I have experimented with a few things that boost the brain's executive function, the part of me that decides, "I'm going to do this now," and then actually carry it out. The main thing that has worked for me has been caffeine. When I'm on caffeine, I can actually decide to do something, and then DO it. But that effect is temporary, because as soon as I've had coffee for a few days and my body becomes addicted to it, it stops working.

OK, what gives? What else is left to try?

Does anybody relate to this?

Giving up is not an option. There has got to be a way to figure this out. So I keep trying.

This year, I embarked on a new experiment. And this one thing has been the most effective method I have ever used on myself to actually get somewhere with myself.

It all started with an offhand comment my sister made about dog training, which I then implemented into a method of training myself.

And my results have been amazing.

I'm going to explain it in the next post.

This is a fun read.

Part 3. How the game works

The concept for this game comes from the dog training world. Hat tip to my talented dog trainer sister and Karen Pryor. Here is a starter article on clicker training: https://www.clickertraining.com/15tips

The basic gist of it is, the trainer clicks a clicker when the dog performs the desired behavior, even when the dog accidentally does something close to the desired behavior. The trainer rewards with a treat after the click. Very quickly, the dog's brain associates the sound of the click with the feeling of reward. (There's the first step of the dopamine connection.)

I had looked into using clicker training for kids at one point when I was working in the schools, and in the human context, it's called TAGteach. This article provides a good overview of how TAGteach works. https://www.clickertraining.com/node/3323

TAGteach starts with the same clicker method, but it expands upon it so that you can eventually chain desired behaviors together. The article above gives the example of a 6-step morning routine.



At first, you tag the behaviors individually. Later, as the individual behaviors become easy, you gradually clump the behaviors together and tag only the successful completion of the entire chain of behaviors.

One tool that facilitates this process is an item called a "TAGulator" (a string of 10 beads, woven in a certain way to record "clicks"). Here is an article that covers the construction and use of the TAGulator:

tagulator – TAGteach Blog

tagteachblog.com

Putting it all together

Here's how I constructed the game using the "props" I had collected.

1. A tablespoon or two of chocolate chips
2. A piece of string
3. A small eye-screw
4. Ten small beads
5. A violin

1. The chocolate chips were my "treat." I have always had a sweet tooth, so I knew that eating one chocolate chip would give me a tiny dopamine hit.

2, 3, and 4. These were my supplies to construct my TAGulator. I screwed the eye-screw into a wooden stand where I set up my computer and hung the string and the beads from it.
View attachment 26925

Pulling a bead down is an important part of the process, especially once you start chaining behaviors together. While I liked the idea of chocolate chip rewards, I certainly didn't want this game to cost me rotten teeth and 10 pounds of added fat.

The idea is, you start by rewarding yourself every time you pull down a bead. But eventually, you progress to the point where you reward yourself only at the 10th bead. Then you reset the TAGulator and start over with another batch of 10 good behaviors. So rewards come thickly at the beginning and then you continue to reinforce your established patterns at a slower rate.

5. The violin was my "clicker." I didn't have a proper Karen Pryor clicker, so I just looked for something I had in the house that would make a single, pleasing auditory "ding." I set the violin on a table near my desk and plucked the G string each time I wanted to "TAG" a good behavior. You could use anything that makes a noise, such as a small bell or a pen that has a nice click. I am sensitive to sounds and wanted a sound that I would look forward to.

The auditory component of this is not to be missed. Hearing the sound is an important part of forming the association in your brain. It's kind of like the Pavlov's dog effect. You get to the point where the sound alone causes you to salivate. You're harnessing multiple pathways in your brain to stimulate and reinforce the connection.


The Game Begins

In this game, you are both the trainer and the trainee.

Filling both of these roles for me was not difficult. I was already "divided against myself" in my behaviors, as my better judgment struggled against my procrastination and self-indulgence.

But making it into a game gave the "better judgment" side of me just enough leverage to beguile and intrigue the "self-indulgent" side of me into participating.

I set the timer on my phone for one minute.

"I am going to work with diligence and focus until the timer goes off," I stated aloud.

Don't judge.

I was truly that bad. That's how big of a remedial approach I had to give myself.

Hopefully most people reading this won't have to start off THAT small.

But I had to find a way to start with wins.

Like my sister said, "Make each step easy and fun to take."

OK, so one minute it was.

And I succeeded in working for that full minute until the timer went off.

The Celebration

The timer rang. I had successfully worked for ONE FULL MINUTE!

Now it was time to artificially contrive for my brain to get a dopamine hit. This was my method, and it became a ritual that I performed every time in the following way:

1. I gave the G-string of the violin one nice, loud, resonant pluck.
2. I physically clapped my hands, smiled, and excitedly exclaimed, "YAAAAAY!" out loud (I warned you this was silly) - but see Ann Cuddy's Ted Talk for the reasons behind this.
3. I briefly extended my arms up into a victorious "V" pose (again, see Ann Cuddy - though I only held this momentarily, not for two minutes). It felt good to just stretch my arms up that way.
   1. Side thought: Beginning the Dopamine Hacking Game Session with a nice 2-minute power pose might make the whole game even more effective.
4. I ate one chocolate chip. While I ate it, I focused on really tasting how delicious and enjoyable it was. I smiled and ate it with gusto. I did not let this become stale or old or boring. I actively enjoyed each and every chocolate chip in order to produce as big of a dopamine reward as I could.
5. I pulled down one bead from my TAGulator.

The celebration ritual didn't take more than 15-20 seconds per time, so (A) it wasn't taking up NEARLY as much time as my excursions into la-la-land and (B) I considered it an investment in my continued success. It felt like winning, even if it was silly. It was effective at helping me to accumulate some wins and momentum.

Early rounds of the game

Round 1: I did five one-minute timers in a row, as described above.

I would work for one minute, celebrate with my 5-step ritual, and then work for one more minute.

One minute was VERY easy. It almost felt too easy, but I wanted to establish a reliable dopamine pathway early with lots of repetition. My goal was for my brain to associate "working with diligence and focus" with a feeling of being rewarded. I wanted to get to the point where my brain WANTED to work instead of having to fight against myself in order to coerce myself to work.

Round 2: I did five two-minute timers in a row.

Still very easy. As long as it stayed easy to perform, I knew I could safely move up to a "harder" level. And as soon as it threatened to get boring if I continued to keep it at that easy of a level, I increased the time.

Round 3. I did five three-minute timers in a row.

Still very easy.

Round 4. I did 10 five-minute timers in a row.

I was still consuming one chocolate chip and celebrating with the 5-step ritual for each 5-minute timer.

It was still very easy.

Round 5. I tried a 15-minute timer.

WOMP, WOMMMPPPPPP.

Failure.

Somewhere along the 15 minute journey, I forgot that I was supposed to be focusing on work.

By the time the timer rang, I was off on some bunny trail or other.

Caught me.

OK, so I learned that 15 minutes was too long.

And I needed rewards to come thick and fast at this early stage. After all, this was only my first day.

So I reset the timer to the last point where I had been successful. 5 minutes.

For the rest of that day, in 5 minute increments, I stated aloud that I would work with diligence and focus. I set my timer. I worked. And I celebrated each win as if it was the winning touchdown at the Super Bowl.

At the end of my work day, I felt GOOD.

I didn't feel like a disgusting, dysfunctional idiot who couldn't get my act together. I felt like I was going to get somewhere with this.

It was working.

I was winning all day instead of losing.

I was making progress and gaining momentum instead of deteriorating.

I had actually found leverage that got the procrastinating part of me to willingly engage and participate.

But would it work again the next day? Or would I be bored and cynical by morning?

Day 2 - The Game Continues To Deliver

On Day 2, I gave myself 5 minute timers all day long.

Every 5 minutes, I celebrated and pulled down one bead.

Every 10 beads, I took a longer break and gave myself a bigger reward. I got up from my desk, moved around, and did something fun for 10 minutes.

I also switched things up and didn't do pure chocolate chips. I mixed salted almonds and chocolate chips together. Each time I earned a reward, I could pick either one almond or one chocolate chip. Either way, I savored it as I ate it as if it was the yummiest thing in the world.

Day 3 - Good Things are Still Happening

I was surprised by Day 3 that I hadn't lost interest in this game.

I also knew for a fact that I was not "out of the woods."

If I tried to go back to "just working normally," I would be off the rails, lickety-split.

So I continued with 5-minute timers.

I didn't yet sense ANY sort of "automatic connection" happening. There was no interior satisfaction or inner association of work with reward yet.

So I just continued. I wanted to give the experiment a good-faith effort.

Week 1 - Nothing Has Ever Worked This Long

The whole week went by, and I was continually amazed that the game hadn't stopped working.

Always before, anything that I would ever try would work for a short time and then I would get bored, lose interest, and the whole thing would fizzle out.

Not this time.

I sensed that I was hot on the trail of using my dopamine in my favor rather than just being at the mercy of it working against me.

(Continued in part 4 - Upgrading the game)

This is so much fun to read.
What's really working most powerfully here is that you break the task down to small steps you can succeed by.
The food reward makes it a game that might eventually challenge you with boredom.
The ritual sensations provide a sensory feedback loop to keep you on task. The intuition is just great.
Have a look at Nir Eyal's solutions to distractibility here:

MINDSET - NEW BESTSELLER from 'HOOKED' Author. Simple and Real Solutions: How to Be "Indistractible." Nir Eyal Book Discussion.

@garyfritz explained the problem of reading so many ideas and great advice on attention which always turned out to be complete!y useless to him. This thread is about what you actually can do to overcome distractibilty. The discussion will cover "Indistractible," the new book by Nir Eyal. His...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[garyfritz]

I have skills, knowledge, and intelligence, but then I don't put them to use. I let myself pursue mindless distractions instead of work. I procrastinate. I get off track. I go into la-la-land. I engage in behaviors that are detrimental to my own best interest. Even while I'm seeing myself do it (and hating it), I don't find anything inside myself that gets me to actually change.

Have you been peeking inside my brain?? This is ME, right down the line.

It's consoling that I'm not the only one, but consolation is not what I need. Your reward system is brilliant. I never would have tried it because it feels so gimmicky and contrived. But if it works, it's gold.

So... you haven't really said yet, DOES it work? (You said "my results have been amazing" but you haven't given any specifics.) Have you consistently been more productive? Have you started to learn to be productive WITHOUT the clicker and treats every 5 minutes? Have you trained new dopamine reward systems so you can be self-rewarding and self-motivating like one of those "normal" people? Or is it like the wheelchair-ramp mentioned in the Barkley video that @ChrisV posted -- someone in a wheelchair needs the ramp, regardless of how many chocolate chips you train them with.

Barkley's point was brilliant: ADHD people need IMMEDIATE feedback. We don't "get" long-term consequences and rewards, not the way we are motivated by immediacy. Yeah I know this project is due next week, but my brain thinks it needs cat videos RIGHT NOW. And lots of RIGHT NOWs ends up sliding into next week, and then you're in trouble. So your system gives you some immediate small motivators to keep you working on the more-important tasks. That makes total sense.

Well, to start with, here's what I've tried that has NOT worked.

This is also valuable, if for no other reason than to explain to "normals" that the things that work for them don't work for us. There's a REASON you had to resort to dog training.

Thanks, @Bekit. ++++++rep if I could.

 

[BellaPippin]

I feel gummy bears would also fit the bill. Mmm gummy bears.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[reedracer]

I've been using peanut butter m&m's and its working great. However, it only works great when I have a list of tasks that have "come to me." I.E. people message me or I have a project come in. I have an established business where people come to me, so I've been on cruise control working 1-2 hrs a day for quite a few months now.

This reward system doesn't help me do things to "progress" my business. I get done what "came to me" that day and then I feel like my list is over and I do nothing the rest of the day. Can't bring myself to build out my business or start a new one, partly because I don't even know what the next step is.

That's it... when I know what the next step is, I can use this reward system. When I have no idea, this doesn't work anymore.

Any thoughts?

I've been thinking about this as well. 1. I don't want to associate good habits with sugar and 2. I want to make the reward match the habit.
Right now I'm thinking about a system similar to Starbucks points or air miles.
Create a list of rewards, a massage, new shoes, an afternoon at the movies, a trip to Eirie to eat BBQ, etc.
Then assign points or stars to each reward and create rules to acquire the points.
5 minutes work = 1 star
Post a new product to your store = 2 Stars
Complete the feedback loop on a product = 5 stars, etc.
Make the reward achievable and the stars acquirable and be sure to spend the stars from time to time.
Continue with the sounds and yippees but replace the food with a star system.

 

[garyfritz]

@Bekit do I have to drive out there with a trunk full of chocolate chips? We want part 4!!

(If you post it in the next 2 weeks I won't see it for a while, but everybody else will be happy!)

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Madame Peccato]

I'm super interested in this thread, as I can relate with your post.

I can't wait for the next post Bekit.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bertram]

The unsexy truth about dopamine

Dopamine might be the media's neurotransmitter of choice for scare stories about addiction, but the reality is rather more nuanced, writes Vaughan Bell

www.theguardian.com

Dopamine has opposing effects in different brain areas including lowering the desire to work:

Dopamine impacts your willingness to work

A new brain imaging study that has found an individual’s willingness to work hard to earn money is strongly influenced by the chemistry in three specific areas of the brain.

news.vanderbilt.edu

Your work does not need the validation of trendy science.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Invictus]

The Long-Awaited Part 4 - Upgrading the Game

Sorry for the delay in getting this posted, and thank you to everyone who has expressed thanks, support, and anticipation of the next step. It has been gratifying to learn that my experiments with myself have been helpful to other people.

(Side note: The fact that I haven't posted an update to this is actually an indication of how focused I have been lately, as the forum has been one of my "indulgences." #fulltransparency - High forum attendance for me has traditionally been strongly correlated with high work avoidance. Kind of sad on an entrepreneurial forum where we're all about keeping each other motivated to think big and do hard things. But this has turned around for me and gotten into a nice, sustainable balance, where interacting on the forum isn't robbing from higher-priority tasks.)

So back to where I left off...

I had worked for a week or two with my daily experiments. The chocolate chips, celebrations, and other components of the game were continuing to work.

External conditions continued to be bad. I was working with a very burned-out brain and a company dynamic where I was disengaging a little more every day.

But this was giving me a way to faithfully crank out work every day, even though I wouldn't have typically wanted to.

And it didn't feel like forcing myself to do anything.

No longer was I dragging myself to work, kicking and screaming, in the futile endeavor to actually DO anything.

Then came the challenge.

I took a trip where I had to accomplish the same amount of work, but in some very distracting conditions while I was on the road.

At home, I have an office environment that is basically perfect for focused work.

But on this trip, I had to work from a variety of noisy, unpredictable environments, such as airports, the back seat of a car, and various bedrooms belonging to my relatives, complete with many beguiling opportunities to get off track.

On top of that, I had very spotty internet along the way.

Ordinarily, this would have been something along the lines of, "I'm not going to get anything done anyway, so why bother?"

But in this case, I had a plan. The plan had been working up until this point. Would it continue to work with a change of environment?

Off I went. I told a few people about my "game" when it made sense, such as when I was riding in the back seat of my aunt & uncle's car for about 5 hours. (I didn't want them to be concerned that I was losing my mind when I celebrated every five minutes. They happily played along.)

And it was on that trip that I had the first taste of victory.

I was working and had missed a round or two of my game, due to various distractions. BUT I HAD CONTINUED WORKING.

And the biggest triumph was when I realized, "This feels rewarding!!"

Work alone, without any corresponding rewards and celebrations, had produced its own tiny little dose of happiness and intrinsic reward.

I felt like shouting.

YESSSSSS!!!!! THIS IS WORKING!!!

The neural pathway was getting built. I had tricked my brain into making work feel rewarding.

I had moved one step away from turning to my "vices" to reward myself (YouTube, surfing the web, etc), and I had moved one step closer to letting work build its own momentum because work itself had become rewarding.

A Chat With My Sister Leads To A Few Upgrades
Part of the trip involved a brief visit with my brilliant dog trainer sister.

I described my game to her in detail, and she listened with interest. Then she offered me a few pointers for where I could take it to an even greater level.

• It's high time to stretch your focus beyond 5 minutes. This has become too easy now. You're starting to stagnate.
• Extending the time between rewards, but don't just extend the time indefinitely into the future, because your brain will know that the rewards are receding into the distance. There is a risk that you will disengage from the game.
• Instead, stretch yourself to 10 or 15 minutes, but then plan a return to the 5-minute (or even the 1-minute) reward schedule before stretching yourself again to 20 or 25 minutes.
• Keep varying the frequency of your reward schedules on a sine-curve model. This will give your brain something to look forward to, because at the end of each long stretch, there will be another rapid-fire set of rewards.
• Intentionally (and gradually) incorporate small distractions into your path. Reward yourself for ignoring them. This is kind of like a dog trainer who intentionally places treats along the path and trains (& rewards) the dog to ignore them.
• For instance, if your phone is a problem, set up a scenario where you can practice ignoring your phone. Instead of putting your phone in another room where you can't see it, put it in your field of vision. Reward yourself for all the times you want to pick it up and you say no.
• Be judicious. Set this up so that it is super-easy for you to be successful. Increase the difficulty gradually so that you are eventually ignoring all the multiple "triggers" that used to be your downfall.
• Think though the "payday" of rewards you are giving yourself. Set up larger and smaller ones, depending on the size or importance of the accomplishment. You will work harder for a bigger payday. And you will feel more rewarded afterward, which reinforces the learning that is taking place.
• My sister pointed out that by setting up my office to be a "perfect" environment for distraction-free work, what I actually did was train myself to tune into the very smallest trigger of all (my thoughts). You can never get away from your own thoughts. So a better approach is to train yourself to tune out bigger and bigger distractions so that you can handle almost any environment with focus.

All this blew my mind a little bit.

I started taking things to the next level.

Where I Am Today
Fast forward to today. Here are a few of the observations I'd make about myself now.

• I no longer play this game because I no longer need to (but I would return to it in a heartbeat if needed).
• My brain now thinks work is rewarding for its own sake. This started really small, 5 minutes and one chocolate chip at a time. But it worked.
• I have recovered from the burnout that I was experiencing at the time I started this game.
• I have started to actually work on projects that are valuable to move the needle, rather than doing whatever is the prominent whim or fancy of the moment.
• The self-loathing, "What-is-wrong-with-me-and-why-am-I-so-dysfunctional" attitude has been replaced with confidence and optimism, now that I am not wasting so much time.
• My pay has gone up by $1000/month, and I feel like I'm doing less work.
• I feel more like I am cooperating with my brain than being a victim at its mercy.
• I can work with or without caffeine. (That is a huge one.)
• I'm having fun and enjoying work.

=============
THE END
=============

Beautiful. A worthy ending to this thread (perhaps a future Gold?).

I will recommend the book, Don't Shoot the Dog for anyone interested in wanting to adopt this type of training to their life. Psychology books are well and good for learning, but books like this are devoted specifically on how to get results.

A good dog trainer is a borderline superhero. Honestly, if more of them made the connection that their methods could be expanded beyond the canine world, they'd run the world.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to scavenge up some Doritos.

 

[Vadim26]

Interested, looking forward to the 2nd post

 

[Brewmacker]

I've been meaning to post this for a while now, thinking it might help other people. I'm also curious to know if other people have experimented with anything similar to this and gotten similar results.

This thread finally prompted me to write this down.

I invented a method for myself that has been extremely successful at building momentum and wins in getting work done.

This was born out of necessity. Failure to act has been my biggest downfall all my life.

Part 1: The Problem
I have skills, knowledge, and intelligence, but then I don't put them to use. I let myself pursue mindless distractions instead of work. I procrastinate. I get off track. I go into la-la-land. I engage in behaviors that are detrimental to my own best interest. Even while I'm seeing myself do it (and hating it), I don't find anything inside myself that gets me to actually change.

In other words, left to myself, in my natural state, I'm a walking, dysfunctional disaster. It's hard to believe that I've made it this far. Just a few small tweaks in some of the situations I've lived through, and I would probably be a homeless addict instead of someone on an upward trajectory towards the fastlane.

• I know I need to hustle, but I don't.
• I know I need to get moving, but I put if off, "just a little longer."
• I know I need to engage and take action, but I let fear and inaction paralyze me.

OK, so the question arises, HOW DO I GET LEVERAGE OVER MYSELF TO DO THE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO REACHING MY GOALS?

Because my goals are big, beautiful, amazing things.

And there's every reason why I should be able to reach them if I just put in consistent effort.

But that's the problem.

Where do I get the leverage over myself to exert that effort?

Well, to start with, here's what I've tried that has NOT worked.

1. Kicking myself doesn't work. NO amount of beating myself up, threatening myself, or setting up punishments for myself has ever worked. I've experimented with hardcore punishments, like depriving myself of food for an entire day if I don't do the thing I've set myself to do. And I've ruthlessly carried it out, too. But apparently, even hunger isn't big enough to scare me. I have never been able to terrorize myself, abuse myself, or shame myself into doing what I know I need to do.

2. Logic doesn't work. The threat of being homeless and starving if I don't get myself into gear is a logical thing, but it carries no leverage with it. Focusing on logic will increase my frustration with myself, but it won't make me behave any differently.

3. Pep talks and hype don't work. NO amount of emotional speeches, motivational content, or working myself up into a frenzy of positive optimism has ever worked. I get myself into this amazing, exhilarated frame of mind...and I expect that finally, THIS time, I'll finally rise up and DO the thing - and then something inside me always gets the better of me and I'm just like, "Nah. Why bother? I'm going to go on surfing the web for just a little longer."

4. Routine and structure only work to an extent. When I have managed to get myself into a very predictable routine, with lots of structure and accountability, I have tended to perform better. But the trouble is, that structure and routine has only ever come from an outside source. When it's up to ME to create that structure and routine for myself, I'm beating my head against a wall of futility. I'm like a tree trying to pull itself up by the roots. Because the nature of the problem is precisely that I'm lacking in the very self-discipline and self-governance that is prerequisite to creating that structure and regimen. And outside sources of structure and accountability can only go so far, because at the end of the day, YOU have to exercise your own internal locus of control. And where is that going to come from? Inside yourself. But where do you get that if it's missing? For me, this has been a perpetual cycle of defeat.

5. Examining my belief system hasn't worked. This issue, admittedly, has a lot to do with mindset and beliefs, but even when I have gotten my mindset and beliefs to be as healthy as I could possibly get them, it still didn't make a difference in my ACTION TAKING. Beliefs lead to action, so if your beliefs are false and your mindset is unhelpful, then they definitely need a makeover. But I had the advantage of being raised with principles that took me a long way: Take responsibility for your actions. Don't say, "I can't." I am responsible for my own choices. I don't let other people's actions dictate my response. But still, I find myself in this maddening bondage to dilly-dallying, self-sabotage, and procrastination.

6. Caffeine has only worked to a certain extent. I have experimented with a few things that boost the brain's executive function, the part of me that decides, "I'm going to do this now," and then actually carry it out. The main thing that has worked for me has been caffeine. When I'm on caffeine, I can actually decide to do something, and then DO it. But that effect is temporary, because as soon as I've had coffee for a few days and my body becomes addicted to it, it stops working.

OK, what gives? What else is left to try?

Does anybody relate to this?

Giving up is not an option. There has got to be a way to figure this out. So I keep trying.

This year, I embarked on a new experiment. And this one thing has been the most effective method I have ever used on myself to actually get somewhere with myself.

It all started with an offhand comment my sister made about dog training, which I then implemented into a method of training myself.

And my results have been amazing.

I'm going to explain it in the next post.

Hey ,
I was dating a girl recently who had adhd, her sister as well. This is her story and I cannot say more than what she told me:

Before they were diagnosed and treated, she and her sister were inhibited by inaction as well. This is a typical characteristic apparently, and when she was diagnosed a few years her sister (who was treated earlier) told to feel bad about this as it is a side effect of the condition. She explained that she wanted to get up and do something but almost felt paralyzed to the spot and really had to force herself to do this. Her sister was a lot worse.

Once diagnosed in her mid-20s she was prescribed dex-amphetamine and apparently it changed her life.

Upon probing her, (I am always fascinated with the origins of health problems) on what could have caused it, she revealed her years of addictive online co-op computer gaming and lengths of time in front of the screen at one time.

Personally I tend to get this response too and I had it a lot more in the past. Especially with things I do not want to do. I have improved a lot since stopping smoking weed 6 years ago, and cutting out all the gaming. But, there are somethings like clothes washing, opening bills and gardening that need to reach critical mass before I start the task.
The more I just bite the bullet and jump in the stronger I feel and maybe this is also helped by a dopamine and cortisol restricted lifestyle. Although there is progress, I still find it really hard sometimes.

I see one as the easy pill (dex-amphetamine), or the hard pill (exercising grit). Many be a combination could work?
I could take the easy pill, but that would involve picking up the phone and actually making an appointment with a doctor (really that is probably the only thing holding me back).

good luck

 

[ChrisV]

Ok so I obviously have very rudimentary knowledge about all this. I've gotten this far through feeling in the dark, but more precise knowledge would definitely benefit me.

What is the difference between dopamine and endorphin?

I thought dopamine was an endorphin. Well, more properly, I thought dopamine was a neurotransmitter, and I thought "endorphins" were a different word for neurotransmitters.

I've never heard that dopamine has a restricting function. What does that mean or what are the mechanics of it? My understanding was that dopamine is released to create a feeling of reward and pleasure.

I would love to actually look into this deeper if I am off track.

The current hypothesis is that dopamine is involved in "wanting" while endorphin (enkephalin technically) is involved in "liking"

'Liking' vs 'wanting'. A neuroscientific view on classroom motivation

Here's one way that neuroscience can influence education... right now

npjscilearncommunity.nature.com

Please stop calling dopamine the ‘pleasure chemical’

It is possible to feel pleasure without dopamine

www.theverge.com

They may sound like the same thing, but they're not. "Wanting" is prior to receiving a reward, "liking" is after a reward is attained. Dissecting components of reward: ‘liking’, ‘wanting’, and learning

That appears to be the link to motivation.

A brief history of the reward controversy.

 

[Bertram]

I haven't forgotten about this. Just need a block of time to write out part 4.

@garyfritz when you described yourself in @ChrisV 's post on dopamine, I was thinking you were peeking into MY brain.

But yeah, you're right, it's not much consolation to realize that others have the same struggle, unless there are ways to address it effectively.

At the risk of stealing my thunder, the short answer to your questions is YES. I'll go into more detail when I write part 4. I guess the title of my thread is a giveaway, too.


I think this is a big part of the reason why it works.

@Bertram, somewhere I seem to recall you saying that this kind of behavior is related to loneliness. I've pondered that frequently and have never heard anything about that connection before, but I'm intrigued to learn more. Can you elaborate? Have any articles to share on that?

Hi, I mentioned the connection between perceived exhaustion at the workplace or entrpreneurial exhaustion and loneliness. The source is in the book, "Dare to Lead."

Amazon.com: Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts. (Audible Audio Edition): Brené Brown, Brené Brown, Random House Audio: Audible Books & Originals

Amazon.com: Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts. (Audible Audio Edition): Brené Brown, Brené Brown, Random House Audio: Audible Books & Originals

www.amazon.com

 

[Roli]

I'll be working on a coding assignment and realize I just spent the last 4 hours perfecting my programming console theme.

I wish we lived in the same country so that I could meet you for a drink. We have so much in common

 

[ChrisV]

Please go unmedicated on weekends and then share the amazing editor typography and configurations that you accidentally create with the rest of us.

This was a Data Science IDE I started developing for a week while ADDing, until I realized I had like 742343 more important things I needed to be doing:

 

[ProcessPro]

@Bekit Okay, if you don't give us part 4 this week....we will find you and you won't like what we'll do to you.

 

[Jakeeck]

I've been using peanut butter m&m's and its working great. However, it only works great when I have a list of tasks that have "come to me." I.E. people message me or I have a project come in. I have an established business where people come to me, so I've been on cruise control working 1-2 hrs a day for quite a few months now.

This reward system doesn't help me do things to "progress" my business. I get done what "came to me" that day and then I feel like my list is over and I do nothing the rest of the day. Can't bring myself to build out my business or start a new one, partly because I don't even know what the next step is.

That's it... when I know what the next step is, I can use this reward system. When I have no idea, this doesn't work anymore.

Any thoughts?

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Someone said gummy bears?

*jumps into room and looks so hopeful only to be horribly disappointed because this is just the internet...

 

[MakeItHappen]

I've been thinking about this as well. 1. I don't want to associate good habits with sugar and 2. I want to make the reward match the habit.
Right now I'm thinking about a system similar to Starbucks points or air miles.
Create a list of rewards, a massage, new shoes, an afternoon at the movies, a trip to Eirie to eat BBQ, etc.
Then assign points or stars to each reward and create rules to acquire the points.
5 minutes work = 1 star
Post a new product to your store = 2 Stars
Complete the feedback loop on a product = 5 stars, etc.
Make the reward achievable and the stars acquirable and be sure to spend the stars from time to time.
Continue with the sounds and yippees but replace the food with a star system.

I agree. I don't like to use sugar as well BUT it's likely one of the best ways to condition yourself.
You won't use sugar in the mid-term and long-term. Just for a brief time frame.
I avoided it in the past and only wanted to use healthy rewards, but for now this hasn't worked to well.

I also tried my on system with point that I can than exchange for bigger rewards but I don't know. I wasn't as excited about it because it doesn't feel that much like "instant gratification".
But I would try it anyways. Maybe it works for you. If it does great. If it doesn't try a stronger short-term reward.

One thing besides snacks as a reward that I think I would enjoy are scratch cards.
With each scratch card potentially being worth thousands of dollars it seems like a way bigger reward than it actually is.

Maybe I should go and get me some 25 cent scratch cards and try it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Nice_home]

Please someone get this guy some chocolate chips so we can get part 4!!!!!!!

 

[Wolfman]

Hi Bekit and...,
This thread is good stuff. What much of it amounts to is forming good habits. There are experts (Charles Duhigg)who have scientific evidence of how/why this works. There is a 3 step process; trigger+behavior+reward.
Part of what causes many, myself included, to lapse is that bad habits are so ingrained in our cerebral cortex that those neural pathways are basically there to stay.
The good news is that these bad habits can be transformed into good ones. One caveat is that you have to believe that this process works.
The first week is really tough because we have to use a lot of will-power, something we have in finite quantities that can easily be depleted during the day.
It really comes down to a probability game that is quite logical. By creating good habits you don't need as much will-power. That increases the chances that you'll succeed because you'll have enough will power to get you through the tough times (they always come!)
Tune in again to find out how to get through the tough times...
(I'm offering a one time limited offer of $12 to get the long-awaited solution. j/k)
Wolfman

 

[being.simon]

Thanks! I'm doing this. A 25m pomodoro timer. When it rings, V Pose + positive selftalk + a snack. Working really well!

 

[reedracer]

 

[Wolfman]

Hi Bekit and...,
This thread is good stuff. What much of it amounts to is forming good habits. There are experts (Charles Duhigg)who have scientific evidence of how/why this works. There is a 3 step process; trigger+behavior+reward.
Part of what causes many, myself included, to lapse is that bad habits are so ingrained in our cerebral cortex that those neural pathways are basically there to stay.
The good news is that these bad habits can be transformed into good ones. One caveat is that you have to believe that this process works.
The first week is really tough because we have to use a lot of will-power, something we have in finite quantities that can easily be depleted during the day.
It really comes down to a probability game that is quite logical. By creating good habits you don't need as much will-power. That increases the chances that you'll succeed because you'll have enough will power to get you through the tough times (they always come!)
Tune in again to find out how to get through the tough times...
(I'm offering a one time limited offer of $12 to get the long-awaited solution. j/k)
Wolfman

Wow, you guys are cheap! I didn't get one offer for the long-awaited solution on how to get through the tough times. So, now I'm forced to give it away for free.
First, you anticipate and schedule your lapses. If I'm abstaining from fatty food, I schedule a binge on chocolate iced cream in 3 days. This way you retain a measure of control and don't get discouraged.
Second, you develop a supportive network of dependable people. This forum could work if a number (6-8 preferably) could be induced to commit. I'll volunteer if anyone else likes the idea.

 

[cjibjibson]

Awesome, thank you!

A few questions:

• How long did it take for you to start associating work as a reward without the treats?
• It reads like you only ever did the 5-minute rewards before you stopped the game, is that correct? Or did you experiment with the 10-20minutes etc?
• If you did change how long were you at each stage? e.g. 2 months 5-minute rewards, 3 weeks 10-minute rewards
• When you were doing 5-minute rewards how often do you think you ended up continually working on average? like how long was a session in general, 1,2,3 hours? were you taking breaks?
• Do you want a dog now?
  

Thanks so much, this post has had a big positive impact on me, thank you

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[jukido]

Great stuff!

You and your sis should write a book. All the mechanics are easier digest when framed via dog training. Taking something new and relating it to something known = better comprehension.

 

[Bekit]

hey @Bekit ,

I am having trouble with discipline and getting work done but don't want to reward it with food or unhealthy stuff.

do you have any ideas for rewards?

Great question.

Really, all you need is a small dopamine hit. So anything that gives you pleasure will work.

Here are some ideas that come to mind.

I talked to a friend recently who is doing some kind of neurofeedback training. She said when she gets something right, it will show pretty pictures and music on the screen. When she stops getting it right, the pictures and music will fade.

So this prompted a few ideas.

- Look at a picture that gives you pleasure or inspires you. I would suggest something that you would put on your vision board, such as your dream car, the kind of house you'd eventually like to live in, or a beautiful beach or mountain scene. (It probably goes without saying that I would not suggest porn, as this will be counter productive and leave your brain in a state of craving to go back to it, which will make it incredibly difficult to focus on work for your next session.)

- Turn on a beautiful piece of music. I would suggest experimenting with this one, because you could lose a lot of time if you stop to listen to a whole track. On the flip side, if you leave the music on while you continue working, it will lose its effect as a reward. But I feel like 10 seconds of beautiful classical music could be worth trying.

- Pet your dog.
- Kiss your wife.
- Hug your kids.

- Try the celebration ritual alone without any further food reward. My celebration ritual consisted of 1) applaud, 2) cheer (say "Yay" with a big smile), and 3) raise both arms high in the air for a momentary victory pose. This feels cheesy to do aloud unless you're alone, but fortunately for me, my husband was very supportive when I explained what I was doing and sometimes would applaud right along with me. (This increased the impact of the applause even more.)

- Stand up from your desk and walk across the room and back.

- Drink a sip of tea if you like tea.

- Try to "catch yourself in the act" of enjoying something over the next week or two. When you do, notice that thing and see if it could be broken down into a tiny reward.

- I personally wouldn't worry too much about the "unhealthy" factor if you do decide to go with a food reward. For me personally, it only involved eating about a tablespoon of chocolate chips a day, which, in conjunction with a diet that is otherwise healthy, is not going to turn the tables on your health or weight. I later used a mixture of half chocolate chips and half almonds, which was even less unhealthy. That being said, not everyone will find a food reward motivating. I know that I do. If you don't, try experimenting with one of the ideas in the list above.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[ExaltedLife]

@Bekit I read this thread 3 years ago when you first wrote it and it kind of stuck with me, but I never implemented it.

At this point in time I'm having a lot of trouble focusing on a project right now even though I have a ton of free time. My procrastination is ridiculous - when I pull myself away from Youtube, I go on bare foot runs because they're 'healthy'. In the last two days I did no work but I ran for like 4 hours, so now my ankles are basically shot, LOL. I know I won't be able to run for a couple days.

Anyway, I just set up the Tagulator with a clicker and a kitchen timer. My reward is sour patch kids - I figure sour & sweet will give me a powerful spike of endorphin. I also friggin' love sour patch kids, so I filled a mason jar at the bulk barn. Gonna start on this bright and early tomorrow and keep it up till the GF gets home.

Just wanted to say thanks, because this thread has helped me t put together a plan that I know will work to keep me at my desk all day. I can finally finish this project that I started 5 years ago, maybe within the next couple months.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[WM Roger]

@Bekit I read this thread 3 years ago when you first wrote it and it kind of stuck with me, but I never implemented it.

At this point in time I'm having a lot of trouble focusing on a project right now even though I have a ton of free time. My procrastination is ridiculous - when I pull myself away from Youtube, I go on bare foot runs because they're 'healthy'. In the last two days I did no work but I ran for like 4 hours, so now my ankles are basically shot, LOL. I know I won't be able to run for a couple days.

Anyway, I just set up the Tagulator with a clicker and a kitchen timer. My reward is sour patch kids - I figure sour & sweet will give me a powerful spike of endorphin. I also friggin' love sour patch kids, so I filled a mason jar at the bulk barn. Gonna start on this bright and early tomorrow and keep it up till the GF gets home.

Just wanted to say thanks, because this thread has helped me t put together a plan that I know will work to keep me at my desk all day. I can finally finish this project that I started 5 years ago, maybe within the next couple months.

So how's it going after 10 days of die hard tagulating @ExaltedLife
Are the dopamine triggers working out for you?
I have lots of experience with this tagulator+dopamine trigger system since I read this thread. Gonna write some experiences down if there's still people following this.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Attempting this is where the magic lives. Every single thing about this resonates.

You’re so awesome, Bekit . I love your writing. #violinsuperhero #chocolate #yasssss

Now come set up my system!!

Oh wait. I forgot I have questions. Lol.

Are the beads necessary? It seems like restringing them every 10th time would be annoying to me.

I don’t understand the dopamine thing. Does this mean I will have to read that stupid long Dopamine thread?

Does whining about dopamine somehow release dopamine?
Does getting into an argument?
Does sex?
Does sugar?
Obvi texting does.. and gaming.. and online forum stuff. Huh.

Do I just need to do my own research cuz I’m clearly not able to rub your feet through this computer to bribe you into telling me more?!?

Is it totes ok if I talk this whole thing out because .. maybe it is a belief system problem.. I’m still trying that option!!

*pout

I want cuddles now. I am not a little dopamine needing robot!! I am a multifaceted person!!

Imma drink my latte and consider this more..

Babe? I’m so ridiculously proud of you. This took balls. For realz. This is dedication and commitment to overcome your own crap.

 

[Bertram]

"I don’t understand the dopamine thing. Does this mean I will have to read that stupid long Dopamine thread?"

That went off the rails a few days back.

Your talk about dopamine like it is a pleasure chemical. It isn't. Dopamine actually is always related to restricting neurotransmission. Your model here makes more sense if you use "endorphin" instead. Also goals and habit formation involve different dopamine circuits and different brain areas. No need at all to use or misue it here.

Dopamine explained nicely:

The unsexy truth about dopamine

Dopamine might be the media's neurotransmitter of choice for scare stories about addiction, but the reality is rather more nuanced, writes Vaughan Bell

www.theguardian.com