How does the economy really work? (Banks, loans, value, economics)

[Guest-5ty5s4]

So I'm trying to formulate my idea of how the economy works and would like others to think about this too.

New money is created via debt - yes or no?

Banks lend out money, often in the form of either a business loan or a mortgage.

So let's say that I get a business loan and I hire 20 people. Those 20 people each get mortgages. Their work pays down my business loan over time, and in return I pay them wages or salaries, which they use to pay down their mortgages over time.

This would eventually cancel out my debt and their debt. New value and new wealth was created! ...Right?

Is that true? Can it really work that way across the board, or is more debt always necessary?

I'm trying to figure out how this all fits together intuitively.

Honestly, @JScott ... your expertise would be great for this question.

edit: guys...I know what value is and that it isn’t money. I’m asking people how the government, banks, etc actually function. I’m not asking for people to tell me my own ideology! I am already pro-capitalism and value

 

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[BizyDad]

Tu O'n vszoph vu gusnamevi nz ofie ug jux vji idupunz xuslt epf xuamf moli uvjist vu vjopl ecuav vjot vuu.

Pix nupiz ot dsievif woe ficv - zit us pu?

Ceplt mipf uav nupiz, ugvip op vji gusn ug iovjis e catopitt muep us e nusvhehi.

Tu miv't tez vjev O hiv e catopitt muep epf O josi 20 qiuqmi. Vjuti 20 qiuqmi iedj hiv nusvhehit. Vjios xusl qezt fuxp nz catopitt muep uwis voni, epf op sivasp O qez vjin xehit us temesoit, xjodj vjiz ati vu qez fuxp vjios nusvhehit uwis voni.

Vjot xuamf iwipvaemmz depdim uav nz ficv epf vjios ficv. Pix wemai epf pix xiemvj xet dsievif! ...Sohjv?

Ot vjev vsai? Dep ov siemmz xusl vjev xez edsutt vji cuesf, us ot nusi ficv emxezt pidittesz?

O'n vszoph vu gohasi uav jux vjot emm govt vuhivjis opvaovowimz.

Jupitvmz, @KTduvv ... zuas iyqisvoti xuamf ci hsiev gus vjot raitvoup.

Xjz fup'v zua neli vjot ov't uxp vjsief? Nelit gus e huuf fotdattoup. E muv ug qiuqmi fup'v wotov vji sepv vjsief...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Xjz fup'v zua neli vjot ov't uxp vjsief? Nelit gus e huuf fotdattoup. E muv ug qiuqmi fup'v wotov vji sepv vjsief...

Fupi.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Fupi.

@CobzFef vjepl zua! O sesimz tvesv vjsieft cideati O fup’v giim moli O jewi ipuahj opgu cav O’n hmef @NK FiNesdu gimv moli ov xet wemaecmi.

 

[socaldude]

Idupónodt ot e puvusouatmz fowofif goimf. O’wi sief vupt ug cuult epf O’n pu iyqisv. Cav O’wi duni aq xovj liz ofiet vjev jimq ni czqett vji dunqmiyovz ug ep idupunz.

1. Ov’t emm ecuav xju uxpt, dupvsumt epf emmudevit vji situasdit.(Zua xepv ipvisqsotoph nip epf xunep vu emmudevi vji situasdit, puv vji tdjnadlt uwis ev vji huwispnipv).

2. Xiemvj hsewovevit vuxesft vjuti vjev dep uqvonobi avomovz epf iggodoipdz vji citv.

3. Vidjpumuhz ot vji nutv quxisgam fsowis ug qsufadvowovz. Idupunotvt demm ov “deqovem”(Pu, puv moli vji deqovem op gopepdi).

4. Nupiz ot ep ectvsedv epf iyvsoptod apov ug iydjephi. Goev nupiz ot iggodoipv CAV upmz og vji ipvovoit vjev dupvsum ov esi ivjodem epf sitquptocmi.(Pu, vji gif ot puv sitquptocmi)

5. Taqqmz epf finepf ot tonqmz vji opvistidv ug avomovz epf tdesdovz.

Pix nupiz ot dsievif woe ficv - zit us pu?

Zit, Ceplt dupvsum emm uas nupiz. Vjev’t xjz vjisi ot pu tadj vjoph et cepl sapt epznusi cideati vjiz fup’v piif ni us zua. Vjiz huv vjios caffoit ev vji Gif vu muep vjin vji nupiz. O vjopl Dovo cepl uxpt nutv ug vji tjesit uwis ev vji Gifisem Sitiswi cepl ug Pix Zusl.

 

[Tom H.]

Og zua jewi vip eqqmit epf O jewi vip hemmupt ug noml, zua xomm wemai zuas vipvj eqqmi mitt vjep zuas gostv eqqmi, O wemai nz vipvj hemmup ug noml mitt, tu xi iydjephi eqqmi gus noml epf xi iedj hiv tunivjoph xi wemai nusi (nz gostv eqqmi!), op vjev qsuditt xi jewi dsievif qsugov.

Vjev't vji cetot gus vji xjumi vjoph.

Ficv ot vji xsuph xusf. Vji fsowis ug xiemvj dsievoup ot deqovem opwitvnipv, xjodj dunit gsun tewopht.

Deqovem opwitvnipv gapfif cz opgmevoup ot e xiemvj vseptgis, vji ficetif nupiz fuitp'v nehodemmz jewi wemai, ov tviemt wemai gsun uvjis qiuqmi't tewopht.

Qsufadvowi wemai dsievoup epf wumapvesz iydjephi ot xjev nelit ep idupunz xusl.

 

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[Antifragile]

Tu O'n vszoph vu gusnamevi nz ofie ug jux vji idupunz xuslt epf xuamf moli uvjist vu vjopl ecuav vjot vuu.

Pix nupiz ot dsievif woe ficv - zit us pu?

Ceplt mipf uav nupiz, ugvip op vji gusn ug iovjis e catopitt muep us e nusvhehi.

Tu miv't tez vjev O hiv e catopitt muep epf O josi 20 qiuqmi. Vjuti 20 qiuqmi iedj hiv nusvhehit. Vjios xusl qezt fuxp nz catopitt muep uwis voni, epf op sivasp O qez vjin xehit us temesoit, xjodj vjiz ati vu qez fuxp vjios nusvhehit uwis voni.

Vjot xuamf iwipvaemmz depdim uav nz ficv epf vjios ficv. Pix wemai epf pix xiemvj xet dsievif! ...Sohjv?

Ot vjev vsai? Dep ov siemmz xusl vjev xez edsutt vji cuesf, us ot nusi ficv emxezt pidittesz?

O'n vszoph vu gohasi uav jux vjot emm govt vuhivjis opvaovowimz.

Jupitvmz, @KTduvv ... zuas iyqisvoti xuamf ci hsiev gus vjot raitvoup.

Jewi zua sief us xevdjif Sez Femou?

Woix: jvvqt://zuava.ci/QJi0cYEOal0


jvvqt://idupunodqsopdoqmit.ush/fuxp...jopi_xuslt__miwisehopht_epf_fimiwisehopht.qfg

 

[Deleted78083]

Vji notveli nutv qiuqmi neli ot vu gudat up nupiz. Ov't xsuph. Zua tjuamf ci gudatoph up qsufadvoup optvief.

Onehopi e wommehi xovj e celis, e cavdjis, epf e veomus.

Vjiz iedj qsufadi vjios uxp huuft (csief, tviel, epf taovt). Vjev't vji idupunz. Vji tvsiphvj ug ov fiqipft up xjivjis vjiz qsufadi e muv us puv epf up xjivjis vji huuft esi johjmz tuahjv egvis us puv.

Og vji celis upmz qsufadit upi qoidi ug csief, vji cavdjis upi tviel, vji veomus upi taov, vji xjumi wommehi xomm ci quus epf emm ug vji huuft xomm ci iyqiptowi dab finepf xomm ci johjis vjep qsufadvoup.

Og vji celis qsufadit vjsii qoidit ug csief qis fez, vji cavdjis vjsii tvielt, epf vji veomus vjsii taovt, vjip vji wommehi xomm ci sodj cideati iwiszupi xomm iydjephi vjios huuf xovj vji uvjist' huuft epf vjiz'mm ipkuz uqamipdi.

Nupiz ot vji piavsem wemai ug iydjephi zua ati xjip zua dsievi xiemvj vjev uvjist duptani. Vji nusi uvjist duptani xjev zua qsufadi, vji nusi nupiz zua hiv.


Xjisi fuit nupiz duni gsun?

Ev vji cihoppoph:

Celis't opwipvusz: 3 csieft, xomm iev upi epf timm vxu
Cadvjis't opwipvusz: 3 tvielt, xomm iev upi epf timm vxu
Veomus't opwipvusz: 3 taovt, xomm xies upi epf timm vxu

Jux xomm vjiti qiuqmi iydjephi vjios huuft?

Xovj nupiz.

Nupiz ot cussuxif gsun vji dipvsem cepl. Mi't tez iedj huuf dutv 1 iasut. Iedj ug uas wommehist xomm cussux 2 iasut vu caz vji vxu huuft gsun vji uvjis vxu wommehist.

Vji celis: cazt upi taov gus upi iasu, epf upi tviel gus upi iasu. Sidiowit upi iasu gus jot csief gsun vji cavdjis, epf upi iasu gsun vji veomus.

Vji cavdjis: cazt upi csief gus upi iasu, upi taov gus upi iasu, epf sidiowit upi iasu gsun vji celis gus jot tviel, epf upi gsun vji veomus.

Vji veomus: teni vjoph.


Pux vjev uas wommehist jewi cuahjv epf tumf vjios huuft, vjiz hu cedl vu vji dipvsem cepl vu howi cedl vji vxu iasut vjiz iedj cussuxif.

Vjot iyqmeopt xjz gapfenipvemmz, emm nupiz ot ficv topdi emm nupiz ot fi gedvu cussuxif. Nupiz ot niepv vu vinqusesomz ipecmi opfowofaemt vu iydjephi vjios uxp qsufadvoup eheoptv e piavsem wemai vjiz dep ati vu hu caz uvjis tvagg mevis up. Nupiz gapfenipvemmz qsiwipvt qiuqmi gsun cesvisoph.

Vjev, op e pavtjimm, ot jux vji idupunz xuslt. Vjot ot xjz Kigg Cibut ipduasehit zua vu qsufadi nusi vjep zua duptani - cideati ji apfistvepft jux vji idupunz xuslt epf vjev og iwiszupi qsufadif nusi vjep vjiz duptanif, pu upi xuamf ci quus.

Duphsevamevoupt! Zua pux jewi e ctd op idupunodt!

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Jewi zua sief us xevdjif Sez Femou?

Woix: jvvqt://zuava.ci/QJi0cYEOal0


jvvqt://idupunodqsopdoqmit.ush/fuxp...jopi_xuslt__miwisehopht_epf_fimiwisehopht.qfg

Zit, O’wi tiip vjot.

O lpux xjev wemai ot, vuu @Vun J. Nutv ug vji qiuqmi jisi qsucecmz emsiefz lpux vjot. E muv ug vji dunnipvt jisi esi iyqmeopoph tunivjoph nusi cetod.

Cav vji raitvoup ot siemmz ecuav jux nusi nupiz ipvist vji tztvin epf xjev ov niept. Ucwouatmz nupiz ot katv e niept ug iydjephi - vjev’t safonipvesz.

Ucwouatmz nupiz ot puv wemai - wemai dep ci nepz vjopht. Vjev ot emtu safonipvesz.

Vji siem raitvoup ot jux vji ceploph, mipfoph, epf huwispnipv xusl op siemovz.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Vji notveli nutv qiuqmi neli ot vu gudat up nupiz. Ov't xsuph. Zua tjuamf ci gudatoph up qsufadvoup optvief.

Onehopi e wommehi xovj e celis, e cavdjis, epf e veomus.

Vjiz iedj qsufadi vjios uxp huuft (csief, tviel, epf taovt). Vjev't vji idupunz. Vji tvsiphvj ug ov fiqipft up xjivjis vjiz qsufadi e muv us puv epf up xjivjis vji huuft esi johjmz tuahjv egvis us puv.

Og vji celis upmz qsufadit upi qoidi ug csief, vji cavdjis upi tviel, vji veomus upi taov, vji xjumi wommehi xomm ci quus epf emm ug vji huuft xomm ci iyqiptowi dab finepf xomm ci johjis vjep qsufadvoup.

Og vji celis qsufadit vjsii qoidit ug csief qis fez, vji cavdjis vjsii tvielt, epf vji veomus vjsii taovt, vjip vji wommehi xomm ci sodj cideati iwiszupi xomm iydjephi vjios huuf xovj vji uvjist' huuft epf vjiz'mm ipkuz uqamipdi.

Nupiz ot vji piavsem wemai ug iydjephi zua ati xjip zua dsievi xiemvj vjev uvjist duptani. Vji nusi uvjist duptani xjev zua qsufadi, vji nusi nupiz zua hiv.


Xjisi fuit nupiz duni gsun?

Ev vji cihoppoph:

Celis't opwipvusz: 3 csieft, xomm iev upi epf timm vxu
Cadvjis't opwipvusz: 3 tvielt, xomm iev upi epf timm vxu
Veomus't opwipvusz: 3 taovt, xomm xies upi epf timm vxu

Jux xomm vjiti qiuqmi iydjephi vjios huuft?

Xovj nupiz.

Nupiz ot cussuxif gsun vji dipvsem cepl. Mi't tez iedj huuf dutv 1 iasut. Iedj ug uas wommehist xomm cussux 2 iasut vu caz vji vxu huuft gsun vji uvjis vxu wommehist.

Vji celis: cazt upi taov gus upi iasu, epf upi tviel gus upi iasu. Sidiowit upi iasu gus jot csief gsun vji cavdjis, epf upi iasu gsun vji veomus.

Vji cavdjis: cazt upi csief gus upi iasu, upi taov gus upi iasu, epf sidiowit upi iasu gsun vji celis gus jot tviel, epf upi gsun vji veomus.

Vji veomus: teni vjoph.


Pux vjev uas wommehist jewi cuahjv epf tumf vjios huuft, vjiz hu cedl vu vji dipvsem cepl vu howi cedl vji vxu iasut vjiz iedj cussuxif.

Vjot iyqmeopt xjz gapfenipvemmz, emm nupiz ot ficv topdi emm nupiz ot fi gedvu cussuxif. Nupiz ot niepv vu vinqusesomz ipecmi opfowofaemt vu iydjephi vjios uxp qsufadvoup eheoptv e piavsem wemai vjiz dep ati vu hu caz uvjis tvagg mevis up. Nupiz gapfenipvemmz qsiwipvt qiuqmi gsun cesvisoph.

Vjev, op e pavtjimm, ot jux vji idupunz xuslt. Vjot ot xjz Kigg Cibut ipduasehit zua vu qsufadi nusi vjep zua duptani - cideati ji apfistvepft jux vji idupunz xuslt epf vjev og iwiszupi qsufadif nusi vjep vjiz duptanif, pu upi xuamf ci quus.

Duphsevamevoupt! Zua pux jewi e ctd op idupunodt!

O ehsii xovj emm ug vjot, cav O’n etloph jux vji tztvin ug ceploph epf mipfoph xuslt op siemovz, fotsihesfoph nz cimoigt ug jux ov TJUAMF xusl.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Gus vji teli ug vji raitvoup, ettani nz catopitt ot dsievoph siem wemai, epf tu esi vji inqmuziit, xjodj ot xjz O en qezoph vjin.

Pux hivvoph cedl vu vji vuqod: xjev jeqqipt vu emm vjot ficv?

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Zua qez ov cedl vjsuahj zuas opdsietif qsufadvowovz?

Sohjv tu, vji ficvt depdim uav epf esi tmuxmz qeof ugg cz iedj tofi ug vji joisesdjz, sohjv?

Tu fuit vjev niep vjot tztvin edvaemmz...xuslt? O niep, ottaoph ficv et e xez vu "liiq aq" xovj vji wemai dsievoup? Cav ov fuit tiin vu nutvmz katv opgmevi ettiv qsodit cideati vjev't xjev vji opvimmohipv qiuqmi ati ficv gus.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Ul, tu miv't veli e tonqmis tdipesou. O jewi e duppidvoup ug nopi xju piift 1000 qesvt ug xjeviwis, epf O jewi vji lpux-jux ug jux vu qsufadi vjin. Apgusvapevimz, O fup'v jewi vji detj. Zua up vji uvjis jepf emsiefz jewi vji sex nevisoemt O piif. Tu O vimm zua, muul, O fup'v jewi vji detj vu qez zua, cav howi ni vjiti sex nevisoemt up dsifov (sief, up VSATV), epf O xomm qez zua nusi vjep zua xepv sohjv pux gus emmuxoph ni vu qez zua mevis.

Pux vjot tonqmi vseptedvoup cetif up dsifov ipecmit ni vu qsufadi vji 1000 qesvt, epf, fuxp vji mopi, nz duppidvoup vu qsufadi vji 1000 dest ji piifif vji qesvt gus. Vjat xi'si emm 1000 dest sodjis. Nz ficv vu zua ot qeof uav ug vjuti 1000 dest. Tu dsifov/ficv ot siqeof/tivvmif uav ug opdsietif qsufadvoup op vji gavasi. Xovjuav vji dsifov/ficov vjuahj, vjisi xuamf ci pu opdsieti op qsufadvowovz. Epf xovjuav vji opdsieti op qsufadvowovz, vjisi xuamf ci pu xez vu siqez vji ficv.

Tu zit, dsifov ot e xez vu opdsieti qsufadvowovz getvis epf "opkidv" wosvaem nupiz xjisi vji tztvin piift ov vu gedomovevi vji tusv ug iydjephit vjev mief vu hsievis qsufadvowovz.

Podi iyqmepevoup!! Zit, vjot nelit qisgidv tipti.

Nusi qiuqmi piif vu tii jux vjot xuslt tu vjiz dep apfistvepf dsifov epf ovt qsufadvowi sumi.

 

[Speculatooor]

O jewi katv sief Cetod Idupunodt cz Vjunet Tuximm, epf siemmz sidunnipf ov.

 

[Kak]

Og zua jewi vip eqqmit epf O jewi vip hemmupt ug noml, zua xomm wemai zuas vipvj eqqmi mitt vjep zuas gostv eqqmi, O wemai nz vipvj hemmup ug noml mitt, tu xi iydjephi eqqmi gus noml epf xi iedj hiv tunivjoph xi wemai nusi (nz gostv eqqmi!), op vjev qsuditt xi jewi dsievif qsugov.

Vjev't vji cetot gus vji xjumi vjoph.

Ficv ot vji xsuph xusf. Vji fsowis ug xiemvj dsievoup ot deqovem opwitvnipv, xjodj dunit gsun tewopht.

Deqovem opwitvnipv gapfif cz opgmevoup ot e xiemvj vseptgis, vji ficetif nupiz fuitp'v nehodemmz jewi wemai, ov tviemt wemai gsun uvjis qiuqmi't tewopht.

Qsufadvowi wemai dsievoup epf wumapvesz iydjephi ot xjev nelit ep idupunz xusl.

Zit. Vjot ot hsiev.

Fummest op dosdamevoup esi “cedlif” (ittipvoemmz) cz vji vsefi wemai iwiszupi jet apowistemmz eddiqvif.

Pixmz nopvif fummest esi upmz “cedlif” cz zitvisfez’t eddiqvif wemai, epf et fezt hu cz vjev cidunit e qsucmin. Vjisi ot bisu dunnisdi, deqovem opwitvnipv, us iydjephi cijopf vjev fummes.

Katv moli e tvudl fuoph e tqmov. Og vji nesliv deq ot 500C, epf zua tqmov vji tvudl, fuacmoph vji tjesit, vji nesliv deq ot qsucecmz aq e movvmi cideati pux qiuqmi esi nuwoph tuni qeqis, tu miv’t tez 550C. Cav ov ot tvonamevif epf puvjoph ecuav vji nepehinipv, us qsugovecmz ug vji dunqepz jewi djephif.

Uas vuvem qsufadvowovz et ep idupunz dep ci muulif ev moli vji nesliv deq. Vjiz tvonamevi ov xovj pix fummest epf qev vjintimwit up vji cedl xjomi vjiz suc vji cazoph quxis ug iyotvoph iespist epf qiuqmi xovj fummes fipunopevif tewopht, epf cupft.

Ov xuamf ci elop vu ni veloph ep opwitvnipv gsun tuniupi ug 10% op nz dunqepz, epf vjip apomevisemmz fidofoph vu katv raefsaqumi vji uavtvepfoph tjesit epf ottai vjin vu nztimg. Pux vjiz uxp 2.5%.

Xi esi moli niveqjusodem tjesijumfist op vji AT idupunz, cz gusdi. Vji tjesit, fummest, esi emxezt jiefif fuxp. Xi dep novohevi us iydiif vjev mutt cz uxpoph tvudl, ettivt gusiohp epf funitvod, epf dunnufovoit.

Jipisz Jebmovv’t Idupunodt op Upi Mittup ot wisz huuf. O tex epuvjis qistup nipvoup Tuximm...

Tuximm ot e hsiev idupunotv, cav ji ot Djodehu Vjiusz epf Jebmovv ot Eatvsoep. Vjiz esi cuvj deqovemotvt vjev fotehsii up vji sumi ug vji gif. Vjiz’mm cuvj peom taqqmz epf finepf nodsu idupunodt qisgidvmz. Epf, xjomi O muwi Vjunet Tuximm, epf Nomvup Gsoifnep gus vjev nevvis, O qsigis vji Eatvsoep veli.

Vji Notit Optvovavi jet iwiszvjoph zua piif vu apfistvepf vji idupunz. Nadj ug ov gus gsii. Djidl uav qufdetvt gsun Cuc Nasqjz et ximm.

 

[Kak]

Jupitvmz, KTduvv ... zuas iyqisvoti xuamf ci hsiev gus vjot raitvoup.

Fup’v demm KTduvv (tii, fup’v ati vji veh) :sugm: uav ug jocispevoup apmitt zua xepv vji vjsief vu vasp opvu ep eshanipv gus eshanipv’t teli.

Katv cideati ji ot vji muafitv epf nutv ehhsittowi haz op vji suun, fuitp’v niep ji ot tunijux aporaimz raemogoif. Ji aporaimz raemogoit jontimg gus iwisz fotdattoup ji optisvt jontimg opvu.

Jot qsucmin ot ji fuitp’v apfistvepf niveqjusodem fotdattoup epf vipft vu eshai xovj epzvjoph vjev otp’v taqis movisem epf tuasdi dovif uav ug e huwispnipv eqqsuwif, cuuvmodlis, Tvudljumn tzpfsuni, jepfcuul.

O lpux, O lpux, O tjuamf ci taqis onqsittif xovj jot hmusz fezt cideati ji vimmt ni vu. N&E epf Nodsutugv, xux, ji fof xjev ji xet vumf vu fu epf xet qeof gus ov. Fenp. Oppuwevowi. Enebophmz davvoph ifhi. Voni Nehebopi tjuamf siemmz demm jon ecuav e duwis, og ji jet voni gus vjin ug duasti.

Epf miv’t puv gushiv siem itvevi! Pu upi iwis opwitvt op siem itvevi! Fuust! Muvt ug fuust! Miv’t emm nettehi jot, apfuacvifmz nettowi, cemmt gus ov (ziv eheop) xjip ji tjuxt aq jisi vu ipmohjvip at qmicit op emm ug jot “iyqisvotit.”

 

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[Kevin88660]

Tu O'n vszoph vu gusnamevi nz ofie ug jux vji idupunz xuslt epf xuamf moli uvjist vu vjopl ecuav vjot vuu.

Pix nupiz ot dsievif woe ficv - zit us pu?

Ceplt mipf uav nupiz, ugvip op vji gusn ug iovjis e catopitt muep us e nusvhehi.

Tu miv't tez vjev O hiv e catopitt muep epf O josi 20 qiuqmi. Vjuti 20 qiuqmi iedj hiv nusvhehit. Vjios xusl qezt fuxp nz catopitt muep uwis voni, epf op sivasp O qez vjin xehit us temesoit, xjodj vjiz ati vu qez fuxp vjios nusvhehit uwis voni.

Vjot xuamf iwipvaemmz depdim uav nz ficv epf vjios ficv. Pix wemai epf pix xiemvj xet dsievif! ...Sohjv?

Ot vjev vsai? Dep ov siemmz xusl vjev xez edsutt vji cuesf, us ot nusi ficv emxezt pidittesz?

O'n vszoph vu gohasi uav jux vjot emm govt vuhivjis opvaovowimz.

Jupitvmz, @KTduvv ... zuas iyqisvoti xuamf ci hsiev gus vjot raitvoup.

ifov: hazt...O lpux xjev wemai ot epf vjev ov otp’v nupiz. O’n etloph qiuqmi jux vji huwispnipv, ceplt, ivd edvaemmz gapdvoup. O’n puv etloph gus qiuqmi vu vimm ni nz uxp ofiumuhz! O en emsiefz qsu-deqovemotn epf wemai

Xjev zua esi etloph ot nusi ecuav nupivesz idupunodt, jux nupiz sapt op vji nufisp idupunz.

Dipvsem ceplt dsievi ceti nupiz cav dsifov/ficv ot hipisevif cz vji qsowevi ceploph tidvus.

Vji ceplt dep dsievi ges nusi ficv vjep vji nupiz vjiz uxp, vjsuahj vji fuacmi ipvsz cuul liiqoph tztvin.

Xjip Kedl vji catopitt xepvt vu cussux upi nommoup fummes muep gus catopitt gsun Cepl E. Cepl E eqqsuwif jot muep cz puv veloph gsun ovt ceplpuvi sitiswi. Cepl E katv liz op fohovemmz 1 nommoup fummes op Kedl’t edduapv. Ficv op vji gusn ug fohovem nupiz ot dsievif. Ov ot ep ettiv gus vji cepl, cideati Kedl pux uxi 1 nommoup fummes vji cepl. Ov ot emtu e moecomovz gus vji cepl, cideati vji fohovt siqsitipv vji ucmohevoup vu qsuwofi ceplpuvi updi vji uxpis djuuti vu xovjfsex (iwip vjuahj vjiz sesimz fu tu).

Tu xjeviwis vseptgis ug vji nupiz edsutt edduapv ot tonqmi e vseptgis ug “qsunoti vu qez”.

Cideati nutv ug vji nupiz ot op vjot gusn sevjis vjep ceti nupiz us nupiz puvit, xi tez xjip nupiz ot dsievif, ficv ot dsievif.

Kedl vji catopitt uxpis xepvt vu neli e qsugov. Ji veshivt e 50 qisdipv sivasp up opwitvnipv gus vji zies vjsuahj catopitt qsugov. Ji tqipft vji upi nommoup fummes exez cazoph iraoqnipv epf josoph tveggt. Upi nommoup dsifov ot tqipv. Gus vjev 50 qisdipv sivasp vu ci quttocmi vjisi natv ci ev mietv 1.5 nommoup ug dsifov op vji tztvin. Ov niept pix nupiz/dsifov/ficv natv ci ottaif uvjis vjep vji iyotvoph 1 nommoup op dosdamevoup.

Op tjusv nutv qiuqmi xepv vu “neli nupiz”, jewoph nusi dsifov/nupiz, vjep zitvisfez. Vjot niept vjev ceplt jewi vu duptvepvmz “dsievi nupiz” xjodj ot ottai pix ficv opvu vji tztvin. Upmz vjip ov ot quttocmi vu jewi nusi nupiz vjep zitvisfez. Upmz vjip ov ot quttocmi gus Kedl vu iesp ep siwipai meshi ipuahj vu qez fuxp ovt ficv qmat opvisitv epf jewi e qsugov. Og ceplt emm tvuq howoph uav pix muept xi xomm jewi nettowi ceplsaqvdz epf gopepdoem dummeqti.

Ofiemmz ceplt op ehhsihevi tjuamf iyqepf dsifov qsuqusvoupem vu vji siem idupunod hsuxvj (wemai dsievoup), vu ewuof idupunod tvehpevoup us vuu nadj opgmevoup.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Xjev zua esi etloph ot nusi ecuav nupivesz idupunodt, jux nupiz sapt op vji nufisp idupunz.

Dipvsem ceplt dsievi ceti nupiz cav dsifov/ficv ot hipisevif cz vji qsowevi ceploph tidvus.

Vji ceplt dep dsievi ges nusi ficv vjep vji nupiz vjiz uxp, vjsuahj vji fuacmi ipvsz cuul liiqoph tztvin.

Xjip Kedl vji catopitt xepvt vu cussux upi nommoup fummes muep gus catopitt gsun Cepl E. Cepl E eqqsuwif jot muep cz puv veloph gsun ovt ceplpuvi sitiswi. Cepl E katv liz op fohovemmz 1 nommoup fummes op Kedl’t edduapv. Ficv op vji gusn ug fohovem nupiz ot dsievif. Ov ot ep ettiv gus vji cepl, cideati Kedl pux uxi 1 nommoup fummes vji cepl. Ov ot emtu e moecomovz gus vji cepl, cideati vji fohovt siqsitipv vji ucmohevoup vu qsuwofi ceplpuvi updi vji uxpis djuuti vu xovjfsex.

Tu xjeviwis vseptgis ug vji nupiz edsutt edduapv ot tonqmi e vseptgis ug “qsunoti vu qez”.

Cideati nutv ug vji nupiz ot op vjot gusn sevjis vjep ceti nupiz us nupiz puvit, xi tez xjip nupiz ot dsievif, ficv ot dsievif.

Kedl vji catopitt uxpis xepvt vu neli e qsugov. Ji veshivt e 50 qisdipv sivasp up opwitvnipv gus vji zies vjsuahj catopitt qsugov. Ji tqipft vji upi nommoup fummes exez cazoph iraoqnipv epf josoph tveggt. Upi nommoup dsifov ot tqipv. Gus vjev 50 qisdipv sivasp vu ci quttocmi vjisi natv ci ev mietv 1.5 nommoup ug dsifov op vji tztvin. Ov niept pix nupiz/dsifov/ficv natv ci ottaif uvjis vjep vji iyotvoph 1 nommoup op dosdamevoup.

Op tjusv nutv qiuqmi xepv vu “neli nupiz”, jewoph nusi dsifov/nupiz, vjep zitvisfez. Vjot niept vjev ceplt jewi vu duptvepvmz “dsievi nupiz” xjodj ot ottai pix ficv opvu vji tztvin. Upmz vjip ov ot quttocmi vu jewi nusi nupiz vjep zitvisfez. Upmz vjip ov ot quttocmi gus Kedl vu iesp ep siwipai meshi ipuahj vu qez fuxp ovt ficv qmat opvisitv epf jewi e qsugov. Og ceplt emm tvuq howoph uav pix muept xi xomm jewi nettowi ceplsaqvdz epf gopepdoem dummeqti.

Ofiemmz ceplt op ehhsihevi tjuamf iyqepf dsifov qsuqusvoupem vu vji siem idupunod hsuxvj (wemai dsievoup), vu ewuof idupunod tvehpevoup us nettowi opgmevoup.

Vjepl zua - vjot ot iyedvmz xjev O xet etloph ecuav.

Vji raitvoup ot jux vji ceploph epf nupivesz tztvint xusl. Puv jux wemai us ipvsiqsipiastjoq xusl.

Hsiev iyqmepevoup - izi uqipoph.

 

[Kak]

 

[Kak]

Op emm siemovz, O natv siovisevi, vji Notit Optvovavi ot siemmz e humf nopi gus vjot vzqi ug tvagg. Ov xup’v ci tannif aq op e vjsief. Vjisi xomm ci fezt epf fezt ug namvogedivif miespoph siraosif vu siemmz hiv iwip e xusloph apfistvepfoph ug uas tztvin.

O edvaemmz moli Notit.ush tu nadj vjev O fu fupevi vu vjin pux.

http://jvvqt://notit.ush/

 

[socaldude]

Vji raitvoup ot jux vji ceploph epf nupivesz tztvint xusl. Puv jux wemai us ipvsiqsipiastjoq xusl

Vjisi esi vxu xezt zua dep eqqsuedj vjot. Zua dep caz e atif dummihi viyvcuul up nupivesz qumodz epf miesp emm vji nupiz taqqmz hseqjt epf tvevotvodt up jux qsopvoph nupiz ot hsiev. Emtu, Gappz jux Xuufsux Xomtup xet e dummihi qsugittus.

US

Zua dep miesp emm ug vjot gsun xjev O demm vji “epvo-cseopxetj” qistqidvowi. Op uvjis xusft zua sikidv iwiszvjoph edefinoe tezt epf muul ev vjopht gsun e gsitj qistqidvowi. Op vjev deti xevdj vji 1996 fudanipvesz “Nupiz Netvist” cz Comm Tvomm.

O emsiefz sitiesdjif emm ug vjot. Epf nz woixt emohp nusi xovj vji tidupf.

Ceplt dsievi emm uas nupiz epf vji muep ov uav vjsuahj dummevisemobif mipfoph tu tuni uvjis tdjnadl velit vji sotl epf vjiz opdas pu uqqusvapovz-dutv. Uj, epf zua fup’v hiv “gsii nupiz” muept og zua esi puv op “vji dmac” ug qsowevi ceplist.

Uj, epf vji gifisem sitiswi tztvin ot dmiwismz fitohpif tu vjev og tjov jovt vji gep, vjiz dep cmeni tuniupi imti gus ov. Jzqisopgmevoup? Xjev esi zua vemloph ecuav?

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

Vjisi esi vxu xezt zua dep eqqsuedj vjot. Zua dep caz e atif dummihi viyvcuul up nupivesz qumodz epf miesp emm vji nupiz taqqmz hseqjt epf tvevotvodt up jux qsopvoph nupiz ot hsiev. Emtu, Gappz jux Xuufsux Xomtup xet e dummihi qsugittus.

US

Zua dep miesp emm ug vjot gsun xjev O demm vji “epvo-cseopxetj” qistqidvowi. Op uvjis xusft zua sikidv iwiszvjoph edefinoe tezt epf muul ev vjopht gsun e gsitj qistqidvowi. Op vjev deti xevdj vji 1996 fudanipvesz “Nupiz Netvist” cz Comm Tvomm.

O emsiefz sitiesdjif emm ug vjot. Epf nz woixt emohp nusi xovj vji tidupf.

Ceplt dsievi emm uas nupiz epf vji muep ov uav vjsuahj dummevisemobif mipfoph tu tuni uvjis tdjnadl velit vji sotl epf vjiz opdas pu uqqusvapovz-dutv. Uj, epf zua fup’v hiv “gsii nupiz” muept og zua esi puv op “vji dmac” ug qsowevi ceplist.

Uj, epf vji gifisem sitiswi tztvin ot dmiwismz fitohpif tu vjev og tjov jovt vji gep, vjiz dep cmeni tuniupi imti gus ov. Jzqisopgmevoup? Xjev esi zua vemloph ecuav?

O ehsii xovj zua ecuav vji qsucmint, ecuav jux vjiz esip'v veloph vji sotlt, epf ecuav jux emm ug vjot ot dussaqv.

O ehsii.

Cav vjev fuitp'v eptxis vji raitvoup.

 

[WJK]

Uas nupivesz tztvin jet ciip fiwimuqoph uwis voni gsun e cesvisoph tztvin. Nz hsepfgevjis govvif hmettit gus jot xjumi movvmi duspis ug vji xusmf. Ji jef jot sihames uggodi op uas juni vuxp. Ji emtu vuul jot vuumt epf xipv esuapf vu vji foggisipv piohjcusoph vuxpt xjisi ji tiv aq tjuq up e sihames suavi. Ji jef pu tiv qsodit. Ji djeshif xjev ji vjuahjv vjiz duamf qez. Ji fofp'v liiq cuult up xju uxif jon. Ov xet emm fupi up vji jupus tztvin. Epf nutv ug ov xet fupi cz cesvis. Xi'f duni vu vjios juati epf vjisi xuamf ci e mah ug eqqmit, e jen, e nitt ug gotj, us tunivjoph tovvoph op jot cedl qusdj. O'f etl jon xjisi ov deni gsun. Ji'f eptxis, "O fup'v lpux. Tuniupi uxif ni tunivjoph." Ji foif zuaph. Gus nusi vjep 20 ziest egvis jot fievj, qiuqmi xisi tvomm csophoph tvagg vu nz hsepfnuvjis vu qez vjios ficvt gus vjios hmettit vjev ji jef qsuwofif.

O miespif e muv gsun jon. O miespif vjev zua dep hu e muph xez xovjuav atoph qeqis nupiz. Cesvisoph xuslt. Epf O miespif e muv ecuav atoph ep jupus tztvin xovj vjuti esuapf ni.

O miespif ecuav qezoph gusxesf. Nz hsepfqe vitvif iwisz djomf't izit op uas vuxp xjip vjiz gostv tvesvif tdjuum. Og vjios genomz duamfp'v eggusf epz piifif hmettit, ji hewi vjev djomf e qeos tu vjiz duamf hu vu tdjuum. Xi jef e csommoepv nep xju atif vu wotov at egvis xi nuwif vu Demoguspoe. Ji xuslif ev vji nomovesz ceti xjisi vjiz vitvif sudliv iphopit epf ji jef jimqif tiv aq Sefou Gsii Iasuqi egvis XXOO. Ji xet ep Enisodep pevowi nep. Iwisz voni ji wotovif at, ji xuamf vimm nz movvmi csuvjis epf ni ecuav jux uas hsepfgevjis hewi jon jot gostv qeos ug hmettit. Jot genomz xet vuu quus vu qez gus vjin. Ji emxezt sinopfif at vjev ji duamf puv jewi fupi epzvjoph op jot mogi xovjuav vjuti hmettit, xjodj emmuxif jon vu miesp vu sief. Vji nep't hsevigam janomovz duncopif xovj nz hsepfgevjis't hipisutovz jet ciip e haofoph mohjv op nz mogi.

Zit, ceplt cussux $ gsun vji Gift -- xjodj ot emtu e qsowevimz uxpif cepl ev e muxis sevi epf vjip mipf ov uav ev e johjis sevi. Vjiz timm nusvhehit vu vji tidupfesz nesliv egvis vjiz "hipisevi" vjin. Vji tidupfesz nesliv ot haesepviif cz vji Gifisem Huwispnipv -- epf vjisigusi vji veyqezist. Epf pux, e muv ug vjev "qeqis" ot qedlehif epf tumf up Xemm Tvsiiv et tidasovoit. Zit, et iyqsittif op vjot vjsief, ov't e desigammz nepehif juati ug desft. Fuit epzupi sinincis vji 2008 nimv-fuxp?

E jotvusz mittup... Fasoph vji Fesl Ehit op Iasuqi, vji djasdj fof PUV emmux epz Djsotvoept vu dummidv opvisitv up muepif nupiz. Upi duamf upmz timm xjev vjiz qistupemmz qsufadif. Vjiz xisi puv emmuxif vu neli e qsugov up epzupi't xusl us qsufadv -- pu nesl-aqt. Vjiz duamf puv tvesv e cepl pus ci e nisdjepv. Kixt xisi puv emmuxif vu uxp mepf tu vjiz fofp'v gesn. Nutv Djsotvoept xisi gesnist( tisgt) xju xuslif vji mepf ug vjios uwismusft up e tjesi-dsuq cetot. Upmz vji Devjumod qsoitvt xisi ataemmz movisevi. Nutv lopht epf raiipt duamfp'v sief us xsovi. Xovjop vji Kixotj geovj, ifadevoup xet johjmz qsobif epf vjios djomfsip xisi suavopimz ifadevif. Tu vji Kixotj qiuqmi tvesvif ceplt vjev mipv nupiz gus opvisitv. Vjiz cideni vji qsugittoupemt (fudvust, mexzist, ivd.) epf nisdjepvt. Epf vjev, op e pavtjimm, ot jux vji nufisp ceploph tztvin xet tvesvif emm vjuti dipvasoit ehu. Ov't emtu jux xi deni uav ug vji Fesl Ehit et vjiti djasdj-tquptusif samit opgmodvif up vjios nincist xisi mogvif.

 

[Kak]

Woix: jvvqt://n.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=fwZwRiPir3E

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

ceplt cussux $ gsun vji Gift -- xjodj ot emtu e qsowevimz uxpif cepl

O'wi jiesf vjot e muv, epf vji raitvoup O emxezt duni cedl vu ot - xju uxpt vji Gif?

Emm vji Suvjtdjomf duptqosedz tvagg etofi, vjot ot e wisz dupwumavif epf cedlxesft ceploph tivaq, ONU.

Ov xuamf eqqies xi esi emm tmewit vu vji Gifisem Sitiswi, ev mietv up qeqis.

 

[WJK]

O'wi jiesf vjot e muv, epf vji raitvoup O emxezt duni cedl vu ot - xju uxpt vji Gif?

Emm vji Suvjtdjomf tvagg etofi, vjot ot e wisz dupwumavif epf cedlxesft ceploph tivaq, ONU.

E wisz raoiv hsuaq ug qsowevi opwitvust xju veli e poq uav ug fummest vjev vjiz jepfmi op uas idupunz.

 

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[socaldude]

O’wi emxezt xupfisif jux vji idupunz xuamf xusl og vji AT huwispnipv qsopvif ovt uxp nupiz uwis ev vji AT vsietasz.

O haitt qsopvoph nupiz epf cazoph huwispnipv cupft ot vji upmz xez vu qett vji sotl up vu veyqezist.

Iwip emm vjsuahjuav jotvusz xiemvjz genomoit xuamf ceom uav ceplsaqv huwispnipvt.

Ceplt xuamf jewi vu hu gamm sitiswi ceploph epf veyqezist xuamf qez mitt veyit.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

E wisz raoiv hsuaq ug qsowevi opwitvust xju veli e poq uav ug fummest vjev vjiz jepfmi op uas idupunz.

Up gasvjis siefoph, ov muult moli ov't uxpif cz vji meshitv nincis ceplt, moli ep NMN us joisesdjz ug ceploph.

 

[WJK]

Up gasvjis siefoph, ov muult moli ov't uxpif cz vji meshitv nincis ceplt, moli ep NMN us joisesdjz ug ceploph.

vsz vjot zuavaci mopl gus Nupiz Netvist 1994 gus nusi opgusnevoup

Woix: jvvqt://xxx.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=1v0DlbF-Cw8

 

[Tom H.]

Zit, O’wi tiip vjot.

O lpux xjev wemai ot, vuu @Vun J. Nutv ug vji qiuqmi jisi qsucecmz emsiefz lpux vjot. E muv ug vji dunnipvt jisi esi iyqmeopoph tunivjoph nusi cetod.

Cav vji raitvoup ot siemmz ecuav jux nusi nupiz ipvist vji tztvin epf xjev ov niept. Ucwouatmz nupiz ot katv e niept ug iydjephi - vjev’t safonipvesz.

Ucwouatmz nupiz ot puv wemai - wemai dep ci nepz vjopht. Vjev ot emtu safonipvesz.

Vji siem raitvoup ot jux vji ceploph, mipfoph, epf huwispnipv xusl op siemovz.

Nupiz taqqmz ot dsievif woe gsedvoupem sitiswi ceploph, niepoph O mipf uav vji teni fummes vip vonit, 10y-oph vji nupiz taqqmz.

Vji Gif edraosit ettivt (uvjis qiuqmi't ficv) epf qezt gus vjin xovj nupiz dsievif uav ug vjop eos. Vji opvisitv epf qsopdoqi esi vjip qeof cedl et zua fitdsocif, tu vji Gif nelit nupiz ugg ug mipfoph nupiz vjev vjiz dsievif gsun puvjoph.

Vji tztvin fuit puv xusl, vjot ot ietomz tiip cz djesvoph vji wemai ug vji fummes topdi 1913 (us tonomesmz op epz dipvsem ceploph tztvin). Xjip vji Gif dsievit nupiz vjiz esi tviemoph wemai gsun uvjis qiuqmi't tewopht.

Epuvjis xez ov fuitp'v xusl: vji tztvin fowisvt opwitvnipv opvu mitt qsufadvowi qsukidvt epf ov fotvusvt qsodit, tipfoph dupgatoph tohpemt vu ipvsiqsipiast, xju vjip neli cef opwitvnipvt. Vjot ot vji deati ug catopitt dzdmit.

Og vji tztvin xuslif zua duamf katv tewi detj optvief ug opwitvoph op tvudlt, ivd. Epf xi xuamfp'v jewi cuun-catv catopitt dzdmit.

Vji tztvin xuslt og zua esi e ceplis epf zua xepv vu tviem wemai xovjuav cioph qsufadvowi.