ECommerce Development Anyone?

[phlgirl]

Hey guys....

As you know, I am not an e-business girl - in fact, I am pretty clueless on the industry overall.

My brother has started a t-shirt business and wants to get a site up and running. He has been shopping quotes to have a site built and is getting feedback in the range of $2000 - $10,000. Obviously, I don't want to see him waste his money on something he doesn't need. He wants something professional but I cannot imagine it needs to be super fancy/complicated, at least while he is just starting out.

Any ideas as to how he might get started? What type of pricing would be realistic (we are talking 6-8 shirts to get started).

Thanks in advance! I am sure this question has been asked a million times. Feel free to re-direct me.

 

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[rxcknrxll]

Re: Need a Favor

I'm surely not the most qualified on this topic, but I've built some stuff before. And my company has had sites built (not e-commerce but we've dealt with professional designers). $2-10k is easy to spend and is not necessarily going to even get you a very sophisticated site. But I'm guessing these are probably quotes for custom work, and if working on a low cost platform is a concern, then he may just want to go with a template site with ecommerce. Like Yahoo...I'm not a huge fan of them overall, but my experience is that they have good customer service, and you can get a site through them with everything he needs to sell a few pieces like you describe. He could thrown up a template site with a custom logo for next to nothing, make some sales and get a custom piece when he has the cash. Hosting is pretty inexpensive also when you start this way.

 

[phlgirl]

Re: Need a Favor

Thanks for the feedback, Rxcknrxll!

I had no idea there were templates! Looking into them now.

That's kinda what I was thinking (although my brother may have other ideas) - just something to get started and then get custom/fancy, once the revenue starts rolling.

 

[ryanpal]

Re: Need a Favor

what kind of site is he looking for? does he want an ecommerce site? one which is graphic intensive?

i can hook him up with a guy who did some work for me. he's more on the "good looks" aspect and not so much the back end stuff though.

ryan

 

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[kurtyordy]

Re: Need a Favor

From my experience on the customer service side, it is hard to beat Tom at aptohosting.com. His service has been great.

 

[werbl]

Re: Need a Favor

PhlGirl, I just wen through the exact same thing you're talking about. My mom owns a small jewelry business, and I've been helping her out with some things. She wants a well-designed ecommerce site, she has a small product line as well - 10 to 12 items.

First I figured I'd try to go local, so I contacted all of the web designers I could find in the three counties near us. Most of the quotes were in the $3,000 to $20,000 range. Very high for my mom's small budget. Then I figured I'd try Craigslist. I posted an ad describing what we're looking for, our budget, and asked to see portfolios of live sites. I was amazed at the great response. I got over 50 replies, and they're still trickling in months later. I narrowed down the list, picked our 10 favorite designers, and we're going to make the final choice in the next week or so.

So, you might want to give that a try. As far as realistic pricing, $1,000 seems to the the bare minimum estimate from our CL responses. Hope that helps!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Re: Need a Favor

I'm not an ecom guy but I suspect there are some inexpensive off-the-shelf type options out there.

I'd start there:

• Amazon Storefront
• OsCommerce
• Magento
• Ubercart
• Yahoo Stores
• Ebay Stores

This is just off the top of my head; I'm sure there are a dozen others that can be implemented for the cost of the learning the software. I know Kenric started an ECom site with no dollars development dollars.

Google "Open Source Ecommerce" and see what treasures await ...

 

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[NoMoneyDown]

Re: Need a Favor

Isn't this something AptoHosting does? May want to ask him. Also, there is a site who's name escapes me at the moment where you can submit a web project and have people bid on it. The upside is I heard most of the individuals are pleased with the results (and price), but most of the time the entities doing the job are located far away (like in other countries, e.g. Russia). I'll try to remember the name of the site.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Re: Need a Favor

Isn't this something AptoHosting does? May want to ask him. Also, there is a site who's name escapes me at the moment where you can submit a web project and have people bid on it. The upside is I heard most of the individuals are pleased with the results (and price), but most of the time the entities doing the job are located far away (like in other countries, e.g. Russia). I'll try to remember the name of the site.

Sounds like Elance.com

FYI: I changed the title name so it might attract the right viewers.

 

[imirza]

NoMoney Down, the site you are thinking about is www.elance.com

I highly recommend this site to anyone. I've had some web site and other projects done using elance and the results were great.

 

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[WheelsRCool]

Thanks PHX

 

[Jorge]

Like everything, it all comes down to what you want to do. Each shopping cart software has a different purpose and there are LOTS of solutions out there.

I’m sure you could give OsCommerce (or Zen Cart) a try, its free and it looks like it has everything you need. The main thing with both of them is that making a custom look & feel can be pretty difficult although I have done it several times. You can always buy a template though, but its not very pro.

If you are going to do a website based on the “Joomla” CMS system (in case you want a “shop” section in your site and not just an ecommerce site), then you can give VirtueMart a try.

For bigger systems you can try “X-cart”, it has this affiliate module that allows you to get people selling your products online for a comission, and everything on (almost) autopilot.

I haven’t tried “Shopify.com” service yet but it looks like it could be good for testing a product in a certain market without having to develop a full blown system at first. Although its not that customizable it could be good for testing purposes in my opinion.

I have played with Interspire’s shopping cart and it looks great, specially in the design department.

Bottom line is, there are way too many solutions out there to pick just one as the winner, your best bet is to define what you need and then ask your programmer what’s the best fit.

 

[phlgirl]

Thanks guys!!!! :love1:

I knew I could count on you!

And, thanks, MJ, for changing the name of the thread. I didn't even know enough to know that 'Ecommerce' was the terminology I was missing. Now, I can point him my bro in the right direction.

You guys are the best.

 

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[biophase]

Volusion has a pretty nice cookie cutter site. You are looking at $50/mo for the site, $50/mo for credit processing services. $150 startup. It's not bad actually for someone who wants a store instantly.

Try out their free demo site for 2 weeks, you can add your products on there and really see how your store will look and how to add and change products. Then if you like it after 2 weeks, you upgrade to a paid package.

Their biggest drawback is bandwidth, they charge alot for it.

You can probably get a site built on oscommerce for $1000 on elance.com. I think the problem for 1st time store owners is that they don't know what they want. All they know is that they want a store.

 

[biophase]

I should add, there is no way that I would ever pay more than $2,000 to get an ecom store setup. I can't imagine what they would do for $10,000. Think of how many shirts you need to sell to recoup that!

As for bells and whistles, what you really need is a clean store, easy to navigate and checkout and decent order processing system.

The rest of your store's success comes from "out of store" work, such as link building, marketing, adwords, seo, etc... Save some money for this aspect insteading of pouring it into the store for fancy stuff. You can always do that later after you have money coming in.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I should add, there is no way that I would ever pay more than $2,000 to get an ecom store setup. I can't imagine what they would do for $10,000. Think of how many shirts you need to sell to recoup that!

A lot of these guys just install commerce packages (some FREE!) and pawn it off like they actually developed it, charging the end user $1,000's. The buyer has no clue that all they did was find the software, download it, install it, configure it, and present it. Of course, the aforementioned is worth a fee, but not $10,000.

 

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[EComGuy]

Seeing that I own a company that does this, I would like to put in my $.02.

$10,000 for a site is not uncommon. $20,000 for a site is not uncommon.

If you're using a kid in his room doing nothing then, go right ahead. If you want a site that is custom designed, all security holes are plugged, and the ecomm side of the site is solid and error free, you are going to have to spend the money. Do I think his site is worth 10,000? No, not at all. That's not to say that no site is worth that.

I have a customer right now that has a site up and running that we built for her and she makes around $15k-$20k/mo. When she bought he site, she did it right and paid the price. We built her a one off shopping cart, not a off of the shelf product, and designed it to her specifications, and integrated a lot of nice features. She has multiple languages, price conversions, instant credit card transactions that pull actual receipts, cross referencing of products, and many other great things. The difference is, she paid of a bit more money initially so if something was to go wrong, we could support it. Who is going to support you when a credit card gets stolen off of your site after using a "free' software? Sure they can say that they are secured, but its all about your server and the use of SSL certs.

Being cheap in some cases is fine, but it's not always the answer. Im not trying to plug my business by any means, as I am selling it anyways. Im just letting everyone know that its not always advisable to go the cheapest way. With free software, there's always holes and back doors, because they are easily available.

Good luck either way


Best,


PerryC

 

[Jonleehacker]

For a t-shirt store, I'd probably open up a free cafepress store ( http://www.cafepress.com/ ) upload the designs, they handle EVERYTHING else, and test your sales.

Then once you know you have a winning product, go and build your own store.

My 2 cents

 

[phlgirl]

Love that idea, Jonleehacker! Thank you for that.

Although I am certainly no expert (in t-shirts or websites), I am of the thinking that he will want to make sure the products sell before investing too much in start-up costs.

I will certainly mention it to him. +++

 

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[WheelsRCool]

The difference is, she paid of a bit more money initially so if something was to go wrong, we could support it. Who is going to support you when a credit card gets stolen off of your site after using a "free' software? Sure they can say that they are secured, but its all about your server and the use of SSL certs.

Being cheap in some cases is fine, but it's not always the answer. Im not trying to plug my business by any means, as I am selling it anyways. Im just letting everyone know that its not always advisable to go the cheapest way. With free software, there's always holes and back doors, because they are easily available.

Good luck either way


Best,


PerryC

What do you mean when you say "Who is going to support you...?" Can you end up sued for something like that, or are you just talking about recommendations, etc...? I am working on learning ecommerce site building, but I in no way have $10K or $20K to spend on a site right now. I am having to learn all this stuff myself.

BTW folks, there are some books out there on ecommerce law I've seen, I have one from the library, will write a review after reading it.

 

[EComGuy]

What do you mean when you say "Who is going to support you...?" Can you end up sued for something like that, or are you just talking about recommendations, etc...? I am working on learning ecommerce site building, but I in no way have $10K or $20K to spend on a site right now. I am having to learn all this stuff myself.

BTW folks, there are some books out there on ecommerce law I've seen, I have one from the library, will write a review after reading it.

Yes, you can be sued for someones credit card information being compromised. You can be sued for punitive damages, for example if someone had to pay their mortgage and they're card being stolen prevented them from doing that, and you will also be liable for any fraudulent charges. The credit card company will handle it initially, but they do have every right to come after you. If you do not have any security in place on your server, like an SSL certificate, or backed by a comapny that provides that, like Verisign, it can get ugly.

No one has said, especially not me, that normal sites are $10,000. I simply said that they are not uncommon. The majority of my sites start at 1199.00 and go up to 3999.00. Now Ive done some in the past that have been upwards of $50,000 and took years to develop. It just depends on what the customer needs.

The reason some sites cost so much is functionality. Does it do something not a lot of others do, and is it easy to maintain. Is it consistent, is it problematic. It all depends on how extensive the site needs to be.

 

[WheelsRCool]

You say the server...what if I am having a company provide me with the server though...is it up to them to provide the security? I do intend to put security on the website. Also, if the business is incorporated and not a sole proprietorship, is the owner liable directly, or would the business itself be sued...?

This makes me scared, I don't want to build a business and then get sued because some a-hole knows how to circumvent the security system. Will have to get some good books on ecommerce security.

 

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[EComGuy]

No reason to worry. With the proper precautions, you will be fine.

Who ever hosts the site will not be responisble for the security. The security is put in place when the site is designed/developed. Any page that you visit on the web that is 'https://' is a secure page. Just simply having that style of security protects you from lawsuits. Just as a sign in a automobile shop that says "Are not responsible for theft or fire" does for them.

Otherwise, get with a company that provides that as a service. Basically when they click the button that says 'check out' they will see a page that looks just like the rest of the website, except it will be on that companies secure server.

Either way is fine, and it cuts down 99% of your liability.

 

[WheelsRCool]

I see, thanks for the "https://" do I need a specific server that offers that though, or is that something that I do?

 

[EComGuy]

Its called an SSL Certificate. Theres a liscense fee, and then you put it on the server. Its as simple as once it is installed on the server, you go to the link that takes you to the "Check Out" page and change it from http://www.tshirts.com/checkout.aspx to https://www.tshirts.com/checkout.aspx. That automatically calls the SSL and starts the encryption for secure communications.

 

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[WheelsRCool]

Coolbeans, thanks for the info!

 

[ryanpal]

With free software, there's always holes and back doors, because they are easily available.

be careful here. you're just as likely to find holes and backdoors in software which you pay for.

as a matter of fact, if you're familiar with linux (open source and freely available), it's more secure and stable than windows.

i haven't researched software ecommerce software in great detail, but i'd venture to say you could definitely find some quality software that is secure. off the top of my head OsCommerce rings a bell.

ryan

 

[EComGuy]

be careful here. you're just as likely to find holes and backdoors in software which you pay for.

as a matter of fact, if you're familiar with linux (open source and freely available), it's more secure and stable than windows.

i haven't researched software ecommerce software in great detail, but i'd venture to say you could definitely find some quality software that is secure. off the top of my head OsCommerce rings a bell.

ryan

Ryan,

This is true, and I agree with you 100%. But, theres something else to look at. While you can have holes in custom made software, you would have to have a dedicated person looking into infiltrating your software. Whereas something that is free and/or paid for as a corporate solution, is all based off of the identical coding and structure. This being said, it is easy to send out phishing material/ or hounds-ll's to find that particular code on multiple sites at the same time and get a running list of 25,000 people using it. The benefit to having a custom shopping cart developed is that your code is unique, almost everytime. The coder can set it up in any language that he wants to and make it extremely hard to match normal ecommerce language.

Im not going to say that one is better than the other functionality wise, but for security, and for the fact that Ive seen it and done it for more than 10 years, I can tell you which one Ive had more problems with.

Just my $.02, and I appreciate your willingness to further the conversation!!

Best,


PerryC

 

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[ryanpal]

perryc,

good points. while i agree with you about your code being unique. do you have thousands of people testing and developing your code constantly? that's what open-source essentially is. also, having a programming degree and currently working in QA, if you don't have a seperate person / team for each area (one for coding the other for testing), it's very likely your code will have bugs.

in response to your point about having a dedicated person infiltrating your software. this is true, but you can argue another point. if your system is compromised, it could be days, weeks, or months before you ever realize there'has a been a breach of security. whereas with large open source software, security flaws are made public with available patches very quickly.

both routes have advantages and disadvantages.

ryan

 

[EComGuy]

perryc,

good points. while i agree with you about your code being unique. do you have thousands of people testing and developing your code constantly? that's what open-source essentially is. also, having a programming degree and currently working in QA, if you don't have a seperate person / team for each area (one for coding the other for testing), it's very likely your code will have bugs.

in response to your point about having a dedicated person infiltrating your software. this is true, but you can argue another point. if your system is compromised, it could be days, weeks, or months before you ever realize there'has a been a breach of security. whereas with large open source software, security flaws are made public with available patches very quickly.

both routes have advantages and disadvantages.

ryan

Both are very good points Ryan. Definitely breaks down to ones own mindset on the situation.

In response to the second statement made above, security flaws are made pubic. This in itself can sometimes be damning. Knowing that everyone has access to security flaws, details about the flaws, and how it was exploited is dangerous if you do not research this constantly. This, however, is something that someone in ebusiness should do regularly anyways. Will everyone do it? Probably not, will they learn eventually? Yes. But, who knows at what cost.

Very good points, Ryan. You've definitely done your research.

Best,


PerryC