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HOT TOPIC Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed?

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michael515

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Do you feel that having a "good" job in the beginning of venturing out on your own is detrimental to you having the drive to succeed in your own biz because you're comfortable? Why / Why not?

By "good" job I mean stable, corporate, full benefits, $40k+/yr, 40 hours/wk doing stimulating work or at least work you like or tolerate. The other option is something like a job waiting tables where you make money to get by, no benefits, job sucks, part-time etc.. With this option you can drop it without any remorse because you dislike it anyway and you're not losing much.

I know the concept to take a job to learn but I see these "good" jobs as almost a crutch because it may make one complacent and unwilling to let go of a "secure" thing.

I can really relate with Sylvester Stallone when he said he wouldn't get a job because he knew it would decrease his hunger.
 

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JScott

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

While I don't believe having a job is an "evil" concept (like the article above tends to espouse), I do agree that it can provide a motivation to avoid or put off entrepeneurship.

I think I'm probably a good example... I've been earning six figures since I was in my mid-20's, and while I've spent much of the past several years talking about leaving my job to pursue other interests, the opportunity cost (what I'd be leaving on the table by leaving my job) has always seemed too high.

In my situation, to leave would have meant leaving large numbers of valuable (but unvested) stock options, which could likely be worth much more than what I'd make "out on my own" (even if I did fairly well on my own).

I've had numerous conversations with my friends in similar situations, and we all agree that if we didn't have high-paying jobs with large potential future compensation, we likely would have been much more entrepeneurial and gone out on our own much sooner.

So, yes, I do agree that in my case having a good job has kept me from venturing out on my own. But, I also believe that what I've learned in the corporate world (and the money I've made) will be absolutely essential to any future success I might have on my own. So, in retrospect (and again, just my personal opinion on my personal situation), I wouldn't trade my past experience to have gone out on my own sooner. I think I'm further along now than I would have been had I not ever held a job.
 

Gamesta400

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

The value you place on money is in direct proportion the effort it took to obtain it.

I recall reading in a book (Millionaire mind maybe?) an interview with a doctor who had an extravagant lifestyle and tons of debt. When asked if he worried about money, he said dismissively “money is the most renewable resource in the worldâ€. When you are making $300,000+ a year you will obviously place a lesser value on a dollar than if you are making $30,000 a year.

I see this mentality if my own life as well. My brother has worked in construction for years, and as a result makes 2-3 times what I make. While I have been carefully saving and investing my money, he spends his money as fast as he earns it. He probably couldn’t even come up with a $1,000 without having to sell some toys of his. When I try and talk to him about the returns he could get investing his money, he sniffs and says “I could get that in two weeks of work†:bgh:


Speaking about learning the value of a dollar, I also think that it is no coincidence that so many wealthy people came from impoverished childhoods. Andrew Carnegie is a good example of this rags to riches mentality. Having experienced poverty while growing up, they were determined not to be poor as adults.


Thus marks my first posting to the board guys. Any speed would be welcome :)
 

Jonleehacker

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

By "good" job I mean stable, corporate, full benefits, $40k+/yr, 40 hours/wk doing stimulating work or at least work you like or tolerate.

This was pretty much my situation, except with double the salary doing something that I totally loved in an excellent work environment.

But I still couldn't see myself do it for twenty more years, it felt like I was rotting there. It required a huge bungee jump feeling for me to quit. But I did quit and long before I had made up my salary in passive income.

My wife was on board for the ride, which certainly helped a lot. If she had valued material possessions over living the dream, it would have made it much harder for me. She doesn't work or have any income either, so we weren't having any type of safety net.

I'm not rich yet (18 months since I quit) but the lost opportunity costs don't even come close to comparing with the inner growth and business survival muscles that I've built from going on my own.

Now when it comes to making money I know how to spot opportunities and exploit them for profit, rather then relying on a boss and being a slave to a paycheck.

The need for security, and distorting my dreams and natural talents to cater to that false belief in security, was one of the most damaging forces in my life. The ideal is to make a nice smooth exit from job to fast lane, but from what I've seen most of the time it doesn't work like that. In most cases you get the call (from your own Soul let's say) before you feel you are ready and you have to either take the plunge and face your demons or a part of you starts to atrophy.
 

kimberland

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Frankly I think that if you're using a great job
as an excuse to put off starting a business,
you're either not ready yet or not ever going to be ready.

I was making six figures in a Fortune 500 company
doing new business development.
Launching new products is about as close to entrepreneurship
within the corporate structure as is possible.
It still didn't satisfy me
and eventually I had to move on.

Was it challenging to jump the fast track?
Sure.
But I could no more deny the entrepreneurial bug
than I could jump off a building and fly.

BTW...
Publishing novels through a small press
DOES satisfy the entrepreneurial urge.
Very much an S business.
 

andviv

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Michael, YES. When you are making 'easy' money it is just like a drug. And by easy I mean sitting in a decent office chair 8 hours a day 5 days a week. In my opinion, that is easier than mining or highway maintenance, etc. And if you are making a high-middle class income then it is easier to feel OK about it. You can 'suffer' your daily slavery more easily.

I do remember that was one of the points that struck me the hardest in the Rich Dad Poor Dad book. It is easy to get into the rat race, and it is very difficult to get out of it.

A few months back I was talking with bflbob about this same topic... when you feel OK (complacency) then you don't have the same motivation to go for the next level. Most big, deep changes come from situations where you just can't take it anymore. It is easy to fall in that trap. Thus the advice of 'get a job for the learning experience' so you don't get addicted to the fat paycheck and benefits.

By the way, 40K salary is not what I and many others would consider 'good'.
 

CarrieW

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I can tell you from experience lol 40-50k a year aint nothin! esp if you have a family... and have to work for not easy money!

thats what we live on and it sucks!

thats why our plan is to get out of the rat race first at the level we are at now instead of higher. and build from a stable but small base...

eta--- what I would consider a "good" salary is over 100k a year. anything over 250k is great lol.
 
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michael515

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I agree that $40k/yr isn't much. Maybe I should have increased that number. Thanks for all your feedback - great stufff..
 

SteveO

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

It is purely a mindset. It is easy to talk yourself out of taking risks when you have a safe secure job. Others around you may add to that by thinking that you are nuts.

I quit a job at HP after 19 years. All it took was the right mindset and a plan. That didn't stop the barrage of "helpful" information that was tossed my direction in an effort to change my mind.

I went back to my old company 5 years later for a visit. What an odd feeling.

All I really wanted was freedom. I did not have exceptionally high expections in the early stages. My plans were geared toward making enough money that work was no longer required. These plans changed when I saw how easy the whole process was.

It may be more difficult to change your mindset when you have security and safety. Others around you will rarely encourage you to take the road seen filled with risk.

On the other hand, it is your internal fire and drive that will compel you to move forward with a plan.

So, the answer to your question is "Perhaps". :smx4:
 

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Redshft

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I agree with everyone else, its based on your opportunty costs. The OC for someone making $100K/year with benefits is A LOT more than some laborer making $12/hr with no security.

As far as the link posted, the guy who wrote that blog should understand the economy will not operate with all chiefs and no indians. My personal opinion, he sounds like an idiot.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

If you survey many entrepreneurs, you'll find many of them had jobs before they jumped into entrepreneurship AND that the job was a springboard into their chosen field. The job provided insight into an opportuntity. In my own case, 12 years ago I was doing a dead-end job to make ends meet -- that dead-end job tuned me into an opportunity which I exploited and the internet, and the rest is history.

If you get a job, understand its trappings and use it to spot unmet needs and opportunities. Once you start down this road, the road gets narrower and harder to exit.

The value you place on money is in direct proportion the effort it took to obtain it.

I recall reading in a book (Millionaire mind maybe?) an interview with a doctor who had an extravagant lifestyle and tons of debt. When asked if he worried about money, he said dismissively “money is the most renewable resource in the worldâ€. When you are making $300,000+ a year you will obviously place a lesser value on a dollar than if you are making $30,000 a year.

I see this mentality if my own life as well. My brother has worked in construction for years, and as a result makes 2-3 times what I make. While I have been carefully saving and investing my money, he spends his money as fast as he earns it. He probably couldn’t even come up with a $1,000 without having to sell some toys of his. When I try and talk to him about the returns he could get investing his money, he sniffs and says “I could get that in two weeks of work†:bgh:


Speaking about learning the value of a dollar, I also think that it is no coincidence that so many wealthy people came from impoverished childhoods. Andrew Carnegie is a good example of this rags to riches mentality. Having experienced poverty while growing up, they were determined not to be poor as adults.


Thus marks my first posting to the board guys. Any speed would be welcome :)

Welcome to the board, Ill get you out of parking.
 

Rawr

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

MJ, you also said you weren't looking for a job out of college.

It's funny/sad to me because I am kind of following your path - I got a finance/international finance degrees and am graduating this May, but not too sold on going and working for someone else.

Looking back, would you get a job out of college in your field for a few years? IMHO I think that would not be a bad start/repaying loans comfortably and saving for the biz...but who knows may be it is better to just throw it all away and pick a different road.
 

randallg99

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

....

By "good" job I mean stable, corporate, full benefits, $40k+/yr, 40 hours/wk doing stimulating work or at least work you like or tolerate. The other option is something like a job waiting tables where you make money to get by, no benefits, job sucks, part-time etc.. With this option you can drop it without any remorse because you dislike it anyway and you're not losing much.
....


let's clearly establish something for the collective benefit of the board: you are far from being on a fast track if you are making 40k per year... I mean hell, waiters in NYC make more than that. If any of you reading this want to jump to the next level, you had better accept the fact that 40k per year is peanuts and you better create higher expectations for yourselves.
 

camski

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Let me come to some defense here. I realize that for some $40k is no big deal to some here, but keep in mind for someone who came from nothing and finally gets to $40k might feel like they finally hit the lottery. Imagine if you grew up with your mom working at a convenience store making minimum wage and your father working at a factory making $8 an hour (with no benefits) while all the time supporting you and your three siblings. Think how scarce money would be in that situation and how much of a struggle that might be. Especially if your parents have little or no finacial education.
If you were then catatpulted into making $40k with a 401k and benefits, you might feel like you had finally made it. For this person to leave a good steady job making more than they have ever made (or anyone in their family circle for that matter) can be frightening. Perhaps more frightening than someone who makes $100k. I think that when you make more money your confidence also rises. You realize that you have value and expect to be compensated for it. You do not undervalue your abilities and experiences like those who dont make much money. Most who make over $100k feel like even if they lost their job that they could go out and find another in the same salary range. Those who make $40 k and less feel fortunate to make what they do and dont want to jeopardize it.
BTW this isnt my personal story, just my perspective and thoughts that come from knowing people who fit into this category.
 

Runum

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

OK guys I'm officially confused. Many here are saying that $40K a year is nothing. However, if your annual expenses are $30K and you have a passive income of $40K a year aren't you officially out of the rat race if you want to be? I know $40K is not wealthy but if your expenses and wants are low then you can be independent at a lower level of income, correct? Not everyone wants to have all the expensive stuff in life. For me, I've learned that you can let stuff own you if you are not careful.

As far as the original topic. I think a "good job" could slow you down. Especially a job with good medical benefits. One major catastrophe could wipe out most people. Good luck to all.:cheers:

Greg
 

JScott

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Runum -

You are correct...it's all about perspective. If your expenses are only $30K (and you're happy to stay that way), then making $40K per year in passive income will get you out of the rat race.

But, I think most people (not all, mind you, but most), if they had their way, would be living to a point where they'd have expenses greater than $30K per year.

To buy a $500K house would eat up your $30K/year just in mortgage, and there are a few of places in the U.S. where a $500K house really doesn't get you a whole lot and plenty of places where it doesn't get what most people would aspire to. So, you can see how a lot of people would say that $30K/year in expenses really doesn't meet their "goals."

Plus, many people spend more money in retirement than they do while they're working. Between vacations, hobbies, and filling the day, many people want to do new things that they've never done, and the expenses can add up fast.

So, while it's certainly true that $40K is a lot to anyone who has $30K in expenses, I think a lot of people would say they couldn't live on $40K a year without generating debt.
 

CarrieW

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

OK guys I'm officially confused. Many here are saying that $40K a year is nothing. However, if your annual expenses are $30K and you have a passive income of $40K a year aren't you officially out of the rat race if you want to be? I know $40K is not wealthy but if your expenses and wants are low then you can be independent at a lower level of income, correct? Not everyone wants to have all the expensive stuff in life. For me, I've learned that you can let stuff own you if you are not careful.

As far as the original topic. I think a "good job" could slow you down. Especially a job with good medical benefits. One major catastrophe could wipe out most people. Good luck to all.:cheers:

Greg

as i said in a pp post thats what we make now...(between 40-50k) if we could make 4k a month passivly my dh could retire. thats our plan. finacial freedom in 3 yrs or less. our goal for that is 5k a month in income tho. then we are building from that.

out of the rat race is very much different then being in the Fast lane or very comfortable...I would say we are definatley on the opposite side of very comfortable right now lol.

as to 40-50k being not enough. it would be for pleanty of people. lots of people live on less. that said theres a certian standard of living I think everyone wants to achieve.(having money to pay all your bills, being able to fix your car if it breaks, or to buy a new fridge if it dies ect) and in 90% of cases 40k isnt going to be enough to afford that life.

I think if you had a 40k a year job and had any drive to do better you would do it stable secure benifits and all. If you dont then you would be happy with what you have.

I think if you were making what I consider to be a good living it would become more difficult(over 100k fill in your numbers here lol I agree its different for everyone) and I would personally have a hard time walking away from 100k a yr.

on a side note. my step dad makes like 80-100k year(i dont know the exact #) and he thought it was a stable secure job he had worked for the company for alot of years. he has college degrees and lots of knowledge in his area of work. like i said he thought it was secure. till the owners sold the business and the new owners took away tons of retirement benifits they were counting on.

My parents now live by the skin of their teeth always struggling to cover oil in the winter and gas for him to get to work...(hour commute each way)

they had a plan for their life with his nice secure job and then it was ruined by other people because they weren't as in control as they thought they were. Now he has to work 5 yrs longer then planned. hes into year 2, 3 more to go!

your only secure and in control when your the driver not the passanger!
 

rcardin

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

interesting number 40k. My wife and I just had this discussion about 2 weeks ago. We are both teachers making about 43k each. Good Jobs and good benefits. We always thought it would be all we need.

She grew up in the country with parents who worked the flea markets on weekends. Money was always tight because they only worked 2 days a week. I had been brought up middle class and money was really never a worry around our house.
When we got married we bought a 60K house and lived in it for 3-4 years then my dad got into real estate. He helped us get a much nicer house in a better neighborhood.( 160K value for 125k) Since we had a 15 year loan at 5% on the old house we kept it and have rented it out. Our first step to millions:>).

We have been in our new house for 3 years now and it has been really nice for my wife. She never really envisioned getting so far in such a short time. Everything was going good till she listened to investment strategies by Kiyosaki. We were driving down the road and her mood just changed. Our 11 year old even noticed it. When we got home I asked her what was wrong. She said she didn't like the realization that with all we have we are still poor. An interesting revelation.

We own a DJ business and pull in about 10k off that plus the investment house yet we are still poor. Time for a whole new strategy and mind set. Being teachers allows us alot of free time during the year. Over the past 4 summers we have done rehabs for my dad and learned how to do one from top to bottom. Our current strategy is to find the pier and beam house for under 40k and get them rented out. Gotta start somewhere.

Will a good job hold you back? Maybe, but a good job with lots of time off is sure helping us make the decision to go make money.
 

michael515

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I do remember that was one of the points that struck me the hardest in the Rich Dad Poor Dad book. It is easy to get into the rat race, and it is very difficult to get out of it.

A few months back I was talking with bflbob about this same topic... when you feel OK (complacency) then you don't have the same motivation to go for the next level. Most big, deep changes come from situations where you just can't take it anymore. It is easy to fall in that trap. Thus the advice of 'get a job for the learning experience' so you don't get addicted to the fat paycheck and benefits.

:thankyousign: This answers my original ?? - it's not solely the income but the lack of motivation that comes from a job making us comfortable that I curious about.

I think that many corporate jobs aren't as easy to escape versus jobs like waiting tables where almost nobody does it as a career for obvious reasons. Those jobs are meant to be temporary. But I can't help but see these "good" corporate jobs as tougher to escape because you may be giving up more benefits wise and even what you do daily you may actually enjoy.
 

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hakrjak

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I have one of those good jobs, making nearly 6 figures, etc etc...

The biggest challenge each year is utilizing that incoming money to set up your future -- as opposed to blowing it on frivilous things & travel, etc. If you can overcome that challenge, then you are better than most.

The longer I stay at my job, the more I resent it -- and the more I want to retire sooner than later. It definitely makes me sick if I start feeling like I am chained to this job, and rely on the income too much.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak
 

santiago

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I think if you have a good job and the fear of losing that job "security" makes you stay at a job then you weren't most likely weren't meant to be an entrepreneur to begin with. Consider the job a blessing and stick with it.

Regardless of the title of this forum, for me I get more satisfaction out of running/tweaking a business than I do the money it makes. I know it sounds corny, but at least for me, it is absolutely true. If you want to be an entrepreneur solely for the money that can be made, then again, stick to your corporate job - you will make more money.

Me personally, I left a 6 figure job with IBM to start a company in the same industry. IBM was my first customer. I have since sold that company and moved onto a different industry entirely. I could not be any happier and have since realized since talking to friends that get layed off in high tech jobs that the job "security" that they thought they had working for a larger company is not really that secure at all.

In fact, you want security? Be your own boss. :)
 

JScott

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Keep in mind that there are plenty of entrepeneurs in corporate jobs. For every cool new product that's developed by a company like Google, Apple, P&G, Mattel, or even McDonalds, there is at least one person who conceived of it, brought it to market, and was ultimately in charge of making it successful.

Having a job and being entrepeneurial aren't not *necessarily* mutually exclusive (generally they are, but not always). Additionally, the folks I've worked with who I consider to be extremely entrepeneurial (I'd like to include myself in that group :)), tend to be extremely wealthy as well, and have a tremendous amount of job security, even though they work a job and aren't their own boss.

In fact, I know a lot of wealthy people, and the majority of them have gotten that way working a job...

Not saying it's for everyone, but also worth pointing out that for some people, having a job is very-much fastlane...
 

randallg99

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

acceptance of a 40k annual salary entirely contradicts fast lane ideals
 

Russ H

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

randallg99 said:
acceptance of a 40k annual salary entirely contradicts fast lane ideals

Gotta disagree with ya there . . .

Let's say I want to develop an online business that I will sell for 7 figures.

Or, let's say I want to develop a business designing and installing custom electronic systems for homes.

Or, let's say I want to buy houses and fix them up.

All of the above examples can be accomplished while working at a 40K a year job, using the job to stay alive while developing the fastlane business.

(BTW, of the 3 examples above, I did the last two).

********

I guess I take issue with the "never" approach to things.

Tell me something that I can "never" do/be and still be fastlane, and I'll probably figure out how.

For instance:

You can never have a fastlane mentality and collect unemployment or food stamps.

Not so. Someone might do this while working on a concept that could net them millions. Just because we associate food stamps/unemployment w/slackers and losers does not mean that EVERYONE who collects these things is the same.

The fastlane is where your HEAD is at, not your PAYCHECK :fastlane:

-Russ H.
 

santiago

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Keep in mind that there are plenty of entrepeneurs in corporate jobs. For every cool new product that's developed by a company like Google, Apple, P&G, Mattel, or even McDonalds, there is at least one person who conceived of it, brought it to market, and was ultimately in charge of making it successful.

Having a job and being entrepeneurial aren't not *necessarily* mutually exclusive (generally they are, but not always). Additionally, the folks I've worked with who I consider to be extremely entrepeneurial (I'd like to include myself in that group :)), tend to be extremely wealthy as well, and have a tremendous amount of job security, even though they work a job and aren't their own boss.

In fact, I know a lot of wealthy people, and the majority of them have gotten that way working a job...

Not saying it's for everyone, but also worth pointing out that for some people, having a job is very-much fastlane...

I can't disagree, just haven't had personal experience seeing people in the fastlane while earning a paycheck signed by someone else, other than stock options. My personal experience is seeing people use the job to pay bills while they are developing the "transportation" on the fastlane (i.e. Russ H's post above).
 

andviv

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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

I just 'love' the way we twist things and get off topic.... :(

We were talking about $40K in SALARY and then somebody comes and talks about PASSIVE INCOME. Where did that come from? Is it that difficult to stay on topic??????

Back on this interesting topic... the question was about the 'hunger' to succeed. It is very easy to fall in the game of 'succeeding in the corporate world' or, how many call it, climb the corporate ladder. In this case the definition of success is completely different. If you ask me, those CEOs making 150 Million dollars when fired from a corporation can be easily classified as 'successful'. They made it in the corporate world and are fulfilling their definition of success. But that was not the question posted in this thread... the question was about succeeding in your own business.

I liked a lot rcardin's post... it brings an interesting perspective to this thread.

If you have been following the thread about how to develop your plan, particularly the post about figuring out your base essentials you will notice that these two topics are related...

When you have a 'good' job (whatever YOUR definition of 'Good' is) it is very easy to become a consumer so you go and buy nicer cars, houses, flat panel TVs, expensive clothes, etc, etc, etc... it is very easy to get used to that, but it is extremely hard to go back to essentials. Just imagine your life during that time when you had no money... and compare that to when you were in your best financial times. The problem comes when a 'good job' was the path that you took from your pauper years to your mid-class times. If that is the only way for you to achieve some financial progress then it is not wonder that you will think of your job as the way to make it. And then taking the 'risk' to leave all of that behind for an unknown become just too much. To finish, as I am just rambling here, is that complacency from your job probably does still the hunger to succeed on your own. Why walking to the supermarket when you can drive? why working out at the gym when you can sit on you couch and watch TV? Why saving money when you can spend it and pay with credit card with low monthly payments?

Very interesting topic Michael515.
 

CarrieW

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
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Nov 12, 2007
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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

srry a bit ot. but andviv's post brought it to mind lol..

I have no idea where I read this.(may even have been here somewhere lmao)

anyway the thing I read was- The only reason everyone doesn't have an elephant is because noone offered to sell them one for a low down payment and easy affordable monthly payments...LMFAO!

I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read that!
 

randallg99

Bronze Contributor
Aug 9, 2007
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Re: Does having a "good" job deter you from the hunger to succeed

Russ, the original post was about making 40k a year... nothing about passive income or making it to the fast lane.... nice to hear your story (again) but the original poster was questioning a comfort level created by a 40k annual salary could potentially lead to complacency... this idea alone, the one that was presented is the one that contradicts fastlane ideals
 

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