Does everyone struggle to learn code?

[George Appiah]

CS Major here. That is terrible advice. Javascript has a huge market actually and is worth learning. Python is also good, but is not necessarily better than JavaScript. What you really need to focus on spirit is learning to code in general. You can do that with any language. Once you learn one language all of the concepts and ideas will transfer to another language. Languages like Javascript or Python will be the easiest ones to learn. You do not have to do anything like memory management for example.

I'm not a CS major... heck, I can't even write a single line of code to save my life

But when I read @lowtek's comment, I did not understand him to imply that JavaScript is not a valuable language in the marketplace... but that, as a first language, and especially for someone learning on your own, JavaScript may frustrate you and possibly make you even give up. And in that respect, JavaScript may be a "terrible language" and Python may be a better choice to begin your coding journey with.

There's probably a good reason many colleges teach particular languages as a first language, with Python sitting high on that short list.

Again, I'm not a developer... but I think @lowtek's comment was taken out of context.

But then again, what do I know?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Ubu_roi]

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?

Well, I recommend two routes that I particularly like:

- if you want to create a simple back-end for JQuery, have a look at (Google) Firebase: it can serve JSON content with little or no code at all, and can easily deal with CRUD operations; it will also remove most publishing/system related issues;

- if you need a more complex back-end, I would use the latest version of (Microsoft) .net core with C# to create a web api. The learning curve will be tougher, but the reward will pay off in the long term.

Or, you could try both, one after the other.

A small warning though: before this causes some angry comments because "Java is better than C#", or "Python is the only Way to the Future", or "PHP always wins because Wordpress is using it", up to "Microsoft and/or Google are evil": everyone of us has their own favourite technologies. Yours may be different than mine, and I'm totally OK with that ;-)

 

[André Casal]

Thanks. Because I don't know how to phrase this question, let me use an analogy.

I want to be a great mechanic working on cars - able to fix anything - but I want to limit myself to replacing parts and/or repairing cars - not being a machinist and making parts from scratch. I want to be an Ace mechanic. Able to even build custom cars by combining already existing parts, such as making a '36 Ford into a hot rod with a modern engine, tranny, AC, power steering, etc. But I sure don't want to BUILD a tranny from scratch. I want to be able to know which tranny to use and how to modify it to make it fit and work. Pretty high skill level - but I'm using existing parts. Make sense?

The same with websites. I use templates - I don't want to spend the time to build one from scratch when there are so many great ones already available. I also want to be able to incorporate a database, say to manage a membership where people sign in - or have a database of products. Something a lot more than just a website for only viewing. I want to be able to manage an interactive website. I want to be able to know how to assemble the pieces, and custom modify them - but NOT build them from scratch.

Another good example is that I want to be able to search, install, and configure an app to make a website very functional. Coders, on the other hand, would want to BUILD the app. I don't want to know how to build the app, so I don't want to be a coder, but I do need some coding to integrate it and make it work. Every plugin I've used in Wordpress has had to have CSS added to make it work. I don't want to know CSS, but I'm forced to learn it because damn apps - which I pay a lot of money for because I use the full-featured pro ones - don't work. Case in point - I just had to modify the PHP file of one slider app because it only allowed a 10 second time for each slide. Who in their right mind decides to put a 10 second time limit on something? The modification stopped the app for a set time period, then restarted it, so it could last however long I wanted it to. Idiots...

Now I hope you know the skill level I want to obtain. What do I need to know beyond HTML and CSS to pretty much be able to handle 90% of what customers may want if I am to build, modify, and maintain sites for them? Thanks~

If you want to handle whatever a customer throws at you, you don't need to know anything. Just use Just-In-Time learning. This is a viable path if you don't mind putting in the hours of required study. My personal experience tells me this is a really bad professional path to take because you'll become a jack of all trades but master of none. And the money won't come as much as you'd like. My advice is that you invert the equation and ask yourself which technology you want to master. If you become a master of a particular language, technology or technology stack you can charge much higher prices for your work at a small fraction of your time. The hard part is acquiring a high-income skill. The rest is easy.

 

[Bekit]

I think this is a great article at describing the stages of learning to code....

Why Learning to Code is So Damn Hard | Thinkful

What every beginner absolutely needs to know about the journey ahead.

www.thinkful.com

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kraelog]

Java Developer working at big blue atm. I took a full-time course of 6 months to learn Java 8 & get my OCA.
The first two months I felt my brain exploding and I couldn't figure out wtf I was doing.
Month 3 & 4 the fog slowly lifted and I began to see the why instead of just the how of code.
Month 5 & 6, I can visualize a basic architecture and build the application with the correct patterns.

It is a radical new way of thinking for your brain, so it is perfectly normal you struggle a LOT in the beginning. Keep hammering at it, at some point you will feel the "click" and it will all start making sense.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jon L]

I don't consider myself to be brilliant. If I am being objective, I'd probably rate my intelligence as just above average, but not genius.

I know people who are actually have genius level intelligence. They can understand calculus, physics, and other scientific stuff with little to no effort and they're star academics, and excellent in school.

One thing I've noticed though is these same people are very lazy. Everything comes easy to them, so they never have to try. With little effort they already outperform almost everyone else.

The only thing I was blessed with is obsession. I tend to get obsessed with something I'm interested in, and pursue it to a high degree. But being good at something still requires a ton of effort and frustration on my part.

So yes, I'm accepted the fact that anything worth pursuing take a level of effort and discomfort.

I haven't spent a lot of time on Reddit, but maybe I'll check some of those sub-reddits out. Thanks

stack exchange is also invaluable. Check out Quora and do a search for questions about programming, in particular the mindset of top level programmers. Its really interesting to hear from people that are at the absolute top of their game, and have been doing programming for many decades.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[GuestU67047]

First of all, programming is difficult, so don't beat yourself up too much. I remember when I couldn't wrap my head around simple functions and their use, but after I kept grinding and practicing I learned. You can learn too and you don't need to be a genius at math. I doubt you will be building your own compiler or making a 3D engine. Stack Overflow is good for programming help but be careful, there are many assholes on there. It's best to google and if you can't find what you are looking for, then post on there.

Also, JavaScript is a good first language if you have HTML and CSS web basics learned. Python is good too but you can't build anything practical other than command line stuff without a bunch of work (and libraries). With web you can easily build an interface to do what you want with JavaScript.

 

[Kraelog]

I can understand the feeling, it feel's like you're waddling through a swamp with fog in air, you see the next step but you don't have a clue why, how or where you're going.

It's a phase everyone goes through when learning programming, keep at it and someday soon it will just "click" and the fog will lift.

 

[tylerwilkinson]

I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional coder, my projects are amateur at best.

Biggest hurdles to me along the way, regardless of what language, are generally how to apply it. Guided courses are helpful, but I learn more when I have a specific problem to solve. Then the skills I’m learning have an immediate purpose. Also. I’ve had problems with GUI development along the way. I’m not particularly visual.
It’s probably different for everyone. I wouldn’t worry about what language you learn first. If employment is the goal, just pick one that has job listings on indeed/Glassdoor/etc. Coding is coding, and you’ll learn more as you go. If a specific project is a goal, pick a stack that could handle the task and give it your best.
You’re probably not stupid.

 

[gemurdock]

Django is not well documented? What?
It's one of the best documented web frameworks across different languages, not just Python. I generally don't participate in debates about one language against another as it's futile and subjective. But documentation is very easy to debate, you either have it or don't. Django clearly does.

Maybe it has changed since I used it. My past experience with it wasn't that great for their documentation. Their product worked very well though. Either way it is obvious that it is not a question of if you have it or don't. The question is the quality of the documentation.

 

[Brewmacker]

Yes, everyone struggles when learning to code.

I've taught coding to thousands of people, and every single one struggles at some point (and not just for my teaching skills, or lack of). I also struggle when learning new frameworks and languages, but it gets faster and less frustrating with time.

So keep calm, and keep coding.

Javascript is great to start:it's flexible, and makes short things that in other languages are much longer. And generally speaking, in programming short is good. The only downside, it's definitely not the easiest to debug. Which will give you a lot of experience.

Two small tips:
1. Something that generally helps a lot are the great examples at JavaScript Tutorial. You'll find some on Objects as well.
2. 'use strict'. Always.

And I must totally agree with @Tourmaline here: I hate PHP. So happy I'm not alone in this world.

Everything else, go for it!

@Tourmaline @Ubu_roi - Agreed PHP is a f'ing nightmare. I am learning it in combo with Jquery for a month now, and it feels like I am running in deep water.

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?

 

[Never1]

A small warning though: before this causes some angry comments because "Java is better than C#", or "Python is the only Way to the Future", or "PHP always wins because Wordpress is using it", up to "Microsoft and/or Google are evil": everyone of us has their own favourite technologies. Yours may be different than mine, and I'm totally OK with that ;-)

I'm a complete novice, but I suppose the requirements for the application would likely dictate what languages and framework to use, for current iterations and future 2.0+ versions of the finished product? This would render the "which is best" comment war pointless. Case by case subjectivity above everything.

 

[UK.SteRioN]

Simply put coding isn't for everyone it requires aptitude the same as learning foreign languages

If you're doing okay and you've got to a module that's hard that's different. Stick at it, try a different tutorial sometimes the key is in the way you learn

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AustinS28]

I am in the process of learning HTML and CSS so I can build great websites. Do I need JS? What would you recommend to someone that wants to have total control over websites, but doesn't want to take it as far as being a coder that builds things from scratch?

If you want to build a website from scratch that isn’t a static page, yes JavaScript is part of the process.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Deleted50669]

@Tourmaline @Ubu_roi - Agreed PHP is a f'ing nightmare. I am learning it in combo with Jquery for a month now, and it feels like I am running in deep water.

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?

If programming had a perineum it would be PHP. Literally the taint, the grundle if you will. JQuery isn't much better. Today there is no need for either, for front end learn Vue or, if you're a masochist, React. Backend would say Node or Python (personal bias). But for the love of God, not PHP.

 

[Solais]

There are 2 types of brains, in a nutshell - brains that make "deep connections" and brains that make "wide connections."

People who are capable of making "deep connections" generally find coding very easy and can more easily master technical work. I belong in this category (the most extreme example are people with some autism spectrum disorder, a condition I don't have, thankfully).

People who are capable of making "wide connections" develop a variety of interests and talents and are more sociable, but not as skilled at doing "deep work." You might belong in this category if coding doesn't come to you naturally.

If coding is difficult for you, consider doing some more socially engaging work as part of your business. It doesn't matter how your brain is structured, there are suitable businesses for both groups.

Just like how some people are naturally better at math...there's nothing you can do about it. Innate talent is real - it means some people improve or learn certain subjects much more quickly than others. (Though I agree "passion is bullshit")

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MattL]

What would you recommend instead of? Javascript?

Would I be wrong in assuming that each programming language has its use, and that asking questions such as the one above might not be the most productive question to ask?

Programming languages are just tools used to get something done.

Why not visualize what you want to accomplish, then work your way back from there?

 

[ravenspear]

If you don't have the innate talent for it, then your time is best served with working with what you have.

Sorry but that's bullshit (at least for most people if you are reasonably intelligent). Get into the growth mindset and limitations like that fall away.

 

[dauntless]

I am a C# programmer for VR/AR applications. I started coding with Java in college and I was never the brightest kid during my entire academic career. So, to keep things realistic... programming is no cakewalk, you need to learn (and understand in depth) what are variables, methods, functions, properties...etc.., and put newly learned knowledge into practice. It does not matter if the practice exercise is boring or uninteresting (you need to have a true interest in programming to avoid lack of interest), and then you keep practicing and applying new knowledge, every.single.time.
The most important skills programmers have are analytical thinking and problem solving skills. You should be comfortable with wanting to find a solution to a problem, and even if your implied solution doesn’t fix the problem or crates the idea...you go back to the drawing board and design another solution.
I think the biggest reason why people consider programming to be difficult is because they think they have to be poking at their keyboards non stop and writing lines of code seamlessly. No, programmers spend 98% of their time researching about code and 2% typing(or copy/pasting) it.
Understanding code is like reading the blueprint of a home, you cannot start building a home if you cannot understand a blueprint and it’s foundation.
I suggest you get into theory, and start with Java or Python. Once you are comfortable with any of these, coding in any other language should come naturally to you. Only the syntaxes are different.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MaciekWado]

There are 2 types of brains, in a nutshell - brains that make "deep connections" and brains that make "wide connections."

People who are capable of making "deep connections" generally find coding very easy and can more easily master technical work. I belong in this category (the most extreme example are people with some autism spectrum disorder, a condition I don't have, thankfully).

People who are capable of making "wide connections" develop a variety of interests and talents and are more sociable, but not as skilled at doing "deep work." You might belong in this category if coding doesn't come to you naturally.

If coding is difficult for you, consider doing some more socially engaging work as part of your business. It doesn't matter how your brain is structured, there are suitable businesses for both groups.

like how some people are naturally better at math...there's nothing you can do about it. Innate talent is real - it means some people improve or learn certain subjects much more quickly than others. (Though I agree "passion is bullshit")

"There are 2 types of brains, in a nutshell - brains that make "deep connections" and brains that make "wide connections."" sorry but this smell little pseudoscience. Do you have any papers for this? In the learning process, you can easily and 99% of people do deep connection(understanding deeply for example how they breath) and then wide conn. breathing giving me oxygen to my brain.

"Innate talent is real" years of scientific conflict and disputes and this comes from brainiacs people probably more specialized and experienced in this topic than you and me and cannot find 100% evidence and you based on your anecdotal evidence can? common.
It all depends on how people learn, you can lecture me about code years and I will grab more by 1 hour reading than years of listening.

 

[jon.M]

CS Major here. That is terrible advice. Javascript has a huge market actually and is worth learning. Python is also good, but is not necessarily better than JavaScript. What you really need to focus on spirit is learning to code in general. You can do that with any language. Once you learn one language all of the concepts and ideas will transfer to another language. Languages like Javascript or Python will be the easiest ones to learn. You do not have to do anything like memory management for example.

Javascript is used for front end development like VueJS, React... ect. It is also used on the backend with Node. If you do anything with the web you will have to learn it. PHP is also very popular for the backend.

Python is also a very good language and while it can be used for web development most people would never use it for that application. Frameworks like Django make you into a lazy coder and are not that well documented. You could use it for web dev, but there are better choices. Python is great for scripting, data science (python is a must for this), web scraping, and more.

If I were you, just pick a language that is not dying and learn it. The first one is always the worst. Use resources like stackoverflow, coding form for the language you are learning, build projects (this is a must) in the language you learning, and try solving problems on About - Project Euler to gain skill. It just takes practice.

IMO JS and Python are pretty much exchangeable. Both are interpreted scripting languages with similar syntax, especially if you go with JS Standard style which makes it appear a bit more approachable to a beginner.

Django's very well-documented. And you could similarily say JS turns you into a lazy programmer since lots of the code out there is kind of terrible.

 

[AustinS28]

I’m employed as a software engineer and I still can look back every 3/6/12 months and see how much I’ve learned and still need to learn.

You solve one challenge and something harder comes along.

The fundamentals of OOP can be a little tough to grasp at first, but once you get it, everything makes sense.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

If you want to build a website from scratch that isn’t a static page, yes JavaScript is part of the process.

Thanks. Because I don't know how to phrase this question, let me use an analogy.

I want to be a great mechanic working on cars - able to fix anything - but I want to limit myself to replacing parts and/or repairing cars - not being a machinist and making parts from scratch. I want to be an Ace mechanic. Able to even build custom cars by combining already existing parts, such as making a '36 Ford into a hot rod with a modern engine, tranny, AC, power steering, etc. But I sure don't want to BUILD a tranny from scratch. I want to be able to know which tranny to use and how to modify it to make it fit and work. Pretty high skill level - but I'm using existing parts. Make sense?

The same with websites. I use templates - I don't want to spend the time to build one from scratch when there are so many great ones already available. I also want to be able to incorporate a database, say to manage a membership where people sign in - or have a database of products. Something a lot more than just a website for only viewing. I want to be able to manage an interactive website. I want to be able to know how to assemble the pieces, and custom modify them - but NOT build them from scratch.

Another good example is that I want to be able to search, install, and configure an app to make a website very functional. Coders, on the other hand, would want to BUILD the app. I don't want to know how to build the app, so I don't want to be a coder, but I do need some coding to integrate it and make it work. Every plugin I've used in Wordpress has had to have CSS added to make it work. I don't want to know CSS, but I'm forced to learn it because damn apps - which I pay a lot of money for because I use the full-featured pro ones - don't work. Case in point - I just had to modify the PHP file of one slider app because it only allowed a 10 second time for each slide. Who in their right mind decides to put a 10 second time limit on something? The modification stopped the app for a set time period, then restarted it, so it could last however long I wanted it to. Idiots...

Now I hope you know the skill level I want to obtain. What do I need to know beyond HTML and CSS to pretty much be able to handle 90% of what customers may want if I am to build, modify, and maintain sites for them? Thanks~

 

[LittleWolfie]

I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code?

Nope,in fact most people in my class were suprised I had never learnt code before.

I struggle to understand emotions and context though, we all have our strengths and weakness

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Phylosopha]

It’s like anything in life, there are no absolutes to any question you ask. Some people will find it really easy and some incredibly hard. Coding is the one thing in life that always came super easy to me. I taught myself to code Basic at 6, C at 10, and have learned other languages usually with less than 20-40 hours of practice to be proficient enough.

From talking to others, I don’t think this is typical. For whatever reason for me that was just my one gift in life.

But, then there are tons of things a lot of people pick up easily that I really struggle with. I’m not the most social person, and for example one on one sales has always been extremely difficult for me. I don’t read people that well, and that creates a lot of difficulty for me in various scenarios. But...even though I struggle with this, I'm am still continuously working to develop these skills as much as possible for me.

The key is to find your aptitudes and play to your strengths. I’ve done extremely well for myself in business over the years by focusing on the things that I can do well, find work arounds for the things that I can’t do well, and on occasion getting others to do the things that I simply don’t do well and can’t find a work around.

Every master was once a disaster my brother

 

[S.Y.]

Haha I'm literally dealing with the same feeling.

I'm 2.5 months into daily Python practice starting from almost no coding knowledge.

I was cruising through courses until I got into an intermediate data science course. All of a sudden the code stopped making sense.

I realized I didn't have enough base knowledge to build on yet so I went back to a more beginner course and am working through it. Thankfully it makes sense again.

Learning Python for data science as well.

Something that worked for me: dont spend too much time on the course. You will understand faster on real application.

What I do now is to look for jobs posting on upwork & using it as practice. Have learned much more on EDA & visualization.

On the coding side, am doing alright. I think for what I am learning code for, real practice makes it much more easier to grasp.

 

[OlivierMo]

It can be challenging for complex topics. Object oriented programming is usually when a lot of people hit some kind of roadblock. It requires abstract thinking, which some people are not good at.

I was a trainer in programming and I had to use very concrete example to showcase object oriented programming.

You'll eventually get there. You just have to train your brain to think in terms of reuse and abstraction.

To help you, every time you start reusing similar code, you may want to create a function. If you start seeing that that function belongs to something greater and could rely on other internal functions and that various areas of your code could use all that stuff you may start thinking in terms of creating an object.

Another way to think of this is by thinking of your data at a high level. Products, customers, orders, etc... They are all actual world things that can be translated into code. Once you're used to translating actual world entities into code, you'll start making objects to encapsulate other reusable pieces of logic.

JS isn't the best for OO. But you could always use Typescript and convert your code. It's really good for OO programming.

I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.

 

[OlivierMo]

@Tourmaline @Ubu_roi - Agreed PHP is a f'ing nightmare. I am learning it in combo with Jquery for a month now, and it feels like I am running in deep water.

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?

PHP is a fantastic language. Problem is: it's like freedom. If you use it the wrong way it can turn to shit pretty quickly. Usually people who criticize PHP are people who are not disciplined enough to keep things clean.

 

[AlexCornila]

I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.

Keep chipping at it you’ll get it eventually. JavaScript is on the easy side, In undergrad college CS profs were not even considering JavaScript a real programming language but might be a good start depending on what are you trying to achieve. Good thing you are not starting with the beast meaning with C++, it was my first language in college with no prior coding experience, I failed miserably actually first time I dropped the class second time got a D; it require the 3rd try to get an A. I did it eventually get it, doing my ms now in computer hardware arhitecture and using C++ daily. Keep hustling work at it daily and you’ll get it.

 

[mshiddensecret]

Don't be fooled. Coding isn't easy for anyone. And this is coming from someone who studied eng at a top 30 college globally and done internships at the big tech companies (i.e. GOOG, FB, AMZN, MSFT).

What matters most is really just being persistence. Keep testing and testing until you can hack something working. Refer to CS50 on youtube for good tutorial