Does anyone REALLY wake up excited in the morning?

[MTF]

Let me challenge you on that a little bit. You are saying you don't have values. More accurately you may even be literally saying the ultimate value is death. Luckily, I typically don't believe peoples words when it comes to wants/values/etc. I look at their actions. So here we go.

If I was to believe that you feel the point is death, that would lead you to laying in bed all day doing literally nothing. There are some small set of actions that are unconscious and are not a choice (breathing). But getting out of bed is a choice. You have necessarily asserted a value. If you didn't, you would have laid there still in inaction. It's why a computer that isn't given instruction does....literally nothing. You can recursively analize every move. But thats a waste of time. The point was to prove the principle.

You asked about an overarching goal or whatever. Death is that thing. I didn't said I don't have values and yes, death is the ultimate value by definition because it ends everything else. When you're dead, you have no values and whatever values you believed to be true while you were alive mean nothing.

It doesn't mean I won't do anything and just wait for death. I simply acknowledge that whatever I do, it ends in death. There's no other purpose to it. I can either do nothing as you said or I can do something. Either way, it doesn't change the overarching theme.

I choose to use my life in whatever way I consider okay. Because I stopped fooling myself there's legacy, purpose, and stuff like that, I'm actually more free in life than before. I would say I find it easier to get up in the morning now because there's less pressure.

So no wonder you are coming on here frustrated. You innately do have values. You do have drives. You prove that every day. But your brain has led you to believe otherwise. Your mind is so strongly suffocated by your ideology that you are allowing it to keep control even when reality disagrees.

I can have values (like responsibility) and drives (like being out in nature). Doesn't mean I have to see them as the meaning of life. If I'm thirsty, I'll have a drink. If I feel like working out, I'll work out. If I feel like helping someone, I'll help them. Nothing more to it because in the end it all means nothing.

And again, I'm not seeing it as something depressing. I actually feel much better with this view because it saves me from the pointless job of looking for meaning or purpose or questioning myself, the universe or whatever. I feel that a lot of suffering comes from placing too much importance on ourselves and our individual meaning. So by not doing it, I immediately feel better.

This will be too nerdy but it shows well my point of view regarding our insignificance (I read through the entire thing except for particle physics and it puts the ridiculous act of looking for purpose into perspective):

Timeline of the far future - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Other than that, I'm probably a bit too stupid for your post as I don't understand your point and/or question if there's any.

 

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[NeoDialectic]

Other than that, I'm probably a bit too stupid for your post as I don't understand your point and/or question if there's any.

I admit, maybe I'm the dumb one and assumed things that I shouldn't have. At the current time, I feel like I have been watching the artist that was painting one thing for 6 pages and then right before finishing he turns it around and it turns out to be completely something different.

I was reading between the lines and genuinely trying to help what I thought was the issue. The examples weren't meant to imply that you haven't thought about these simple concepts, but simply to lay the framework that leads to my point (keep trying to do things and eventually you will do something that will in fact occasionally make you excited to get out of bed). But maybe there is in fact no issue. Maybe you are extremely satisfied and you were just commenting on the fact that it is irritating some guru's pretend they are ray's of sunshine every morning. I dont know.

In my defense....outside of just replying to your original question and stopping there, the theme of literally every other post in this thread is propositioning you with ways of getting out of what seems to be a bad state of mind. Including all the forums big names. So either we are picking up on something that is contradictory with your words or we are all lost!

 

[Rabby]

You asked about an overarching goal or whatever. Death is that thing. I didn't said I don't have values and yes, death is the ultimate value by definition because it ends everything else. When you're dead, you have no values and whatever values you believed to be true while you were alive mean nothing.

It doesn't mean I won't do anything and just wait for death. I simply acknowledge that whatever I do, it ends in death. There's no other purpose to it. I can either do nothing as you said or I can do something. Either way, it doesn't change the overarching theme.

Presumably the last sentence in a novel is not the entire value and meaning of the work though, right? If I'm the reader and I look at a novel, there's more to it than the fact that it eventually ends?

You could say that novels are meaningless because the universe will collapse into a supercritical black hole and all the matter will explode out in non-deterministic arrangements, granted. But the reason we can call that "meaningless" is because the subject, by which I mean the person who is assigning meaning, is deleted a priori. "After all the people are dead and nothing exists there's no meaning." Well sure. Without a subject, we can't have meaning.

To an entirely objective viewpoint, meaning is out of scope... there's no need to even ask about it, because once the subject is factored out, meaning is not in the conceptual {s,e,t}.

 

[MTF]

I admit, maybe I'm the dumb one and assumed things that I shouldn't have. At the current time, I feel like I have been watching the artist that was painting one thing for 6 pages and then right before finishing he turns it around and it turns out to be completely something different.

I wrote the original post over two weeks ago. Since then, I was sick and spent almost a full week in bed so I had quite a lot of time to think about this which is why my tone might have changed.

There are two issues in this thread and the answers depended on how people interpreted it.

My original question was simply about waking up feeling excited like the gurus proclaim to be but then some people (accurately) saw something beneath it as well (general lack of purpose).

I was reading between the lines and genuinely trying to help what I thought was the issue. The examples weren't meant to imply that you haven't thought about these simple concepts, but simply to lay the framework that leads to my point (keep trying to do things and eventually you will do something that will in fact occasionally make you excited to get out of bed). But maybe there is in fact no issue. Maybe you are extremely satisfied and you were just commenting on the fact that it is irritating some guru's pretend they are ray's of sunshine every morning. I dont know.

Well I've been trying to do things to find purpose for years and haven't found it (apart from traveling, surfing, and being in the water but I don't consider these to be my purpose, just something that makes me feel good - unless that's what you have in mind).

And I think that was exactly the problem.

When you're too obsessed about trying to find something, you're not going to find it. That comes back to my point in the previous post. My conclusion now (not when I posted this question but after two weeks of thinking about it) is that it's easier for me to live knowing there's no bigger-than-life purpose. This removes pressure and dissatisfaction thinking that you're missing something that others have.

 

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[Leo Hendrix]

Does anyone honestly wake up excited in the morning?

If so, what do you do?

I've always felt that this whole "create the life you can't wait to wake up to" is bullshit propagated by self-help gurus and maybe only lived by abnormally happy people who have some kind of a genetic make-up to feel like that most of the time.

hahaha umm yeah Mondays - start of a new week.

 

[MTF]

Presumably the last sentence in a novel is not the entire value and meaning of the work though, right? If I'm the reader and I look at a novel, there's more to it than the fact that it eventually ends?

You could say that novels are meaningless because the universe will collapse into a supercritical black hole and all the matter will explode out in non-deterministic arrangements, granted. But the reason we can call that "meaningless" is because the subject, by which I mean the person who is assigning meaning, is deleted a priori. "After all the people are dead and nothing exists there's no meaning." Well sure. Without a subject, we can't have meaning.

I'm not explaining myself well then. Generally speaking yes, novels are meaningless. But you don't read novels to find meaning in your life, you read them for entertainment.

You don't fool yourself (or at least most readers don't do that) that a novel is a timeless piece of art that will magically change the world. It's just a book to be enjoyed. Nothing more, nothing less. Same with life. It's something to be enjoyed and something that eventually ends.

From my perspective, knowing how I think and act, it's easier to accept the above as true rather than try to find deeper meaning in it. And it's NOT depressive. It simply assumes that I'm free to do whatever in life.

Ultimately, there's only one thing that matters to live a good life: when you're about to die, you're satisfied with the way you spent your time and feel grateful for it.

The above is similar to a good book. If you're happy with how you spent your time, that's all there is to it.

Previously I'd think that I need to find some "purpose" in life, some larger-than-life mission that will make it all worth it. Now I try not to have such grandiose thoughts because they're a recipe for stress, FOMO, and anxiety. I'm just not as special as I thought I was.

Long story short, I realized that my "purpose" (it's actually an anti-purpose since there's no deep meaning here) could be to fill my days in a way that I'll feel most grateful for and satisfied with by the time I'm about to die.

I hope I explained myself better now.

To an entirely objective viewpoint, meaning is out of scope... there's no need to even ask about it, because once the subject is factored out, meaning is not in the conceptual {s,e,t}.

Sorry, I don't understand it.

 

[Simon Angel]

Sorry, I don't understand it.

I think he's saying that without factoring the human into the equation, there's no "meaning" in the Universe. Things just happen, chaotically, because they can.

We try to make sense of it and tie our lives into it by looking for "meaning" but that's because we were programmed/evolved to this state for some reason. And that reason is probably that meaning drives action, change. And change is the only constant in the Universe.

Anyway, my biggest excitement is seeing UFOs up close and alien contact in my lifetime. 2 years ago, a consultant for the Pentagon's UFO program flat out proclaimed they are "In possession of off-world vehicles not made on this earth".

That, plus some more concrete data on human civilization before ~12,000 BC. Homo sapiens (so humans as intellectually capable as we are) have been around for 200,000 -250,000 years and we only really know what happened for a very short period of that.

Perhaps Atlantis really existed. Perhaps there was, at the very least, one more very advanced Homo sapiens civilization that was wiped out by some cataclysm.

It's all so very interesting. And even though things are moving relatively slowly and scientists claim we're a long, long way from interstellar/speed of light travel, I've seen a UFO with my own eyes that seemed quite capable of the former.

So just like the New York Times wrote in 1920 that space flight is impossible, and we not only flew but landed on the moon 4 decades later, I think a lot of exciting stuff awaits that we can't accurately predict until it's within close reach.

 

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[Rabby]

Ultimately, there's only one thing that matters to live a good life: when you're about to die, you're satisfied with the way you spent your time and feel grateful for it.

Well that is good, and I've known at least one person who related that level of satisfaction and freedom from regret at the end. To me it would be a little strange to focus only on the future (especially the last moment of the subjective future), and simulate that future self reflecting on the past. After all, I'm in that future self's past right now, so I can just enjoy the present moment in its simplicity. But I suspect you do that too. Either way, whatever works for you is good, and I agree with the overall sentiment. Plenty of people are focused on a future state that they fail to predict correctly; they think that when they retire at 75 they'll be happy with all the decisions leading up to that day, and expect to be sipping Mai Tai's on the beach. In all likelihood they'll be bored to death instead, and wondering why they stayed in a shitty job for 30 more years just to sit at home staring at the TV.

Long story short, I realized that my "purpose" (it's actually an anti-purpose since there's no deep meaning here) could be to fill my days in a way that I'll feel most grateful for and satisfied with by the time I'm about to die.

Sounds like a good way to fill days. Days I'm dissatisfied with are more of a lesson on what not to do... certainly not something to "power through" 20 years of. The fewer shitty days the better, I always say! Especially once you figure out how to sort the satisfying days from the dissatisfying ones.

 

[James007Hill]

I normally wake up feeling absolutely f****d, but I'm pretty sure that's due to my caffeine addiction. After a coffee and my morning exercise, I then feel energised and excited.

 

[Aditya Gunjal]

Why does death exist? We could conceive of a Universe where organisms, once born, would be eternal, unless they were killed. But why do we naturally die? The way I see it, it's because the rate of evolution is maximised in this way. Life itself is a form of negentropy - we decrease our entropy by increasing the entropy of the environment. If you look at it in this way, we are the Thesis, and the Anti-thesis is the environment which strives, so to speak, to kill us. Out of this conflict is born evolution - the synthesis, our adaptation to the environment. Death exists because it leads to faster adaptation.

Wow i like you logic. The way we define death is also interesting. What actually dies? Our cells or our consciousness. There are some jellyfish and a crab of sort that are biologically immortal (hence as you said only killing causes death).
I see death too as an problem, problem on which if worked properly we can defeat it too( i may sound crazy). As soon as we find out what the heck consciousness is and where it comes from or how it works we can find ways to become immortal not in sense biological but in form of experience. Dont you think we can replicate signals from each body part and and send it to brain(like eyes-visual(sort of lens), skin-touch) and the brain too will be electrical(or we can say silicon based). The body's primary objective is to keep brain alive. Heck i even thought "can we supply brain same nutrition as body provide without using body"
All this stuff is distant future but i am sure things like this will happen. And by the way have you heard of "simulation theory".

 

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[MTF]

As mentioned in one of the previous posts, after a lot of thinking I'm feeling better now and even though I'm still a little sick (which should make me feel worse mentally), I generally don't wake up as defeated as before.

I think the main thing—for me personally, it doesn't have to be for everyone—is that I'm embracing the meaninglessness of life.

I think that before I was obsessing too much about leaving some kind of a big impact or something like that, feeling that—as gurus like to say—I need a deep sense of purpose to wake up with excitement every day. But the more you study how insignificant you are, the more laughable the notion is. I've gotten a bit more comfortable with the idea that I don't mean anything. That helps me feel better because there's no pressure. I'm free to do whatever.

And I don't mean it as an excuse to waste your life and do nothing. If building a huge business gives you joy, then do that. If you want to volunteer, then volunteer. I'm simply saying that for me personally NOT looking for a big purpose is liberating.

Also, I can relate to this article a lot:

The Negatives Of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes Talking About

Early retirement sounds great and it is great for the most part. But there are negatives of early retirement life that also needs to be discussed. I retired early in 2012, at the age of 34. But the years that followed felt unnatural, so I decided to keep busy doing some part-time consulting from...

www.financialsamurai.com

It feels like the author talks exactly about my experience so it looks like at least some of my feelings might be related to early retirement as well.

Most relevant parts:

4) You’ll be disappointed that you aren’t much happier.​

So many people think that once they achieve financial freedom or leave a job they dislike, they’ll suddenly be permanently happier. The truth of the matter is, your elevated happiness will only last at most three to six months. Eventually, you’ll revert to your natural state of being.


Think back to your high school or college days when you didn’t have any money compared to now. I’d venture to guess you were just as happy, if not happier when you were a broke college student. I felt rich even though I was poor.


Having the freedom to do what you want is priceless. But you will eventually take your freedom for granted like the air you breathe. On the days you feel angry or sad, you will start questioning what the hell is wrong with you since you’ve got more than the average person. You’ll feel stupid for feeling unhappy when there are literally hundreds of millions of people in the world wondering whether they’ll have enough to eat the next day.


You think, if I can’t be happy when I’m financially independent, surely there must be something seriously wrong with me. And you could be right!

When you retire at a much earlier age, you are constantly left wondering what’s next. A potentially 50-year retirement is a very long time! You are mentally twiddling your thumbs waiting for the next big thing while your close friends are all at work. Early retirement can get extremely mundane and boring because you have nobody to spend time with.

It might sound like after reading this article that I’m depressed. But I’m not. I’m simply highlighting some of the negatives of early retirement you will probably go through if you decide to leave the workforce early as well. The more extroverted you are and the higher your position, the more you will have difficulties making the early retirement adjustment.


Having the freedom to do what you want cannot be overstated. However, your mind will play games with your spirit during the first few years after leaving work. Some of you won’t be able to handle early retirement life and will go back to work.


Just know that with enough conditioning, you will eventually embrace your freedom. Nobody I know who retired from corporate life early has stayed retired. You will find your purpose. Once you do, you will take steps, such as building passive income, to ensure you remain free forever.

@biophase have you read this article? I remember you mentioned you listened to Noah's podcast with Sam (I listened to it as well after your recommendation). I have a feeling you'll enjoy this article.

I'm reading Sam's book now (Buy This, Not That) and so far it's fascinating as he focuses a lot on defining what financial freedom is and gives some advice I haven't seen before.

 

[SteveO]

The overarching point is death. I sometimes feel like I'm watching a movie where with each minute (or in this case, day or week) I'm getting closer to the end.

I don't write it just to sound down, it's just reality of how I see life and yes, it's the first thing I feel when I read your question.



I guess we all have skills or things that can bring us closer to death lol.

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!

Hunter S. Thompson, The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967
Tags: adventure, death, life

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

My biggest problem is staying up too late and using my phone and computer too much. If I could stop those two things, it would transform my life. But they are real addictions, not just bad habits. The only things that have worked have been tricks like putting my phone charger on the other side of the room, things like that, but eventually I end up moving it back because I "need it" for something. It's a big issue.

Quality sleep is so important. I wake up way more excited when I go to bed around 10 or earlier (I get up about 6)

 

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[Angler]

I’ve been excited about waking up for a couple of months now. It hasn’t always been so though.

There was a time when I felt purposeless and fall for short-term pleasure everyday. During this time I didn’t want to wake up at all. Mostly because I know what the next day will be like, just a ton of F*ckery and nothing accomplished.

Games. Binge eating. Porn. Self-pity. All the gluttonous habits.

In hindsight, I was influence by others limiting beliefs and held them as truth. It’s my own weakness for allowing their poison to get to me. Now, I’m better.

This weakness led me to forsake myself.
What I wanted. What I believe in.
And most importantly my dream of freedom. I don’t mean anything crazy like being breaking free in a 3rd-world country, but the freedom of choice to travel, love, and create greatness whenever I want however I want without kneeling to social, financial, and health constraints of a hazed eye corporate zombie.

Some nights I’d wish I slept away and not wake up. Perhaps all of the hopelessness and misery I’d feel would be gone. I recall asking what is the point very often.

Things changed when I started to come up with greater visions for myself after having suicidal thoughts for about a week. Maybe a month actually.

My inner voice screamed “build great things”! Get my physique on the Greek god level! Become someone valuable to others!
Become someone my future kids will look upon with pride and respect!

Fun fact: I didn’t even know I want to be a great father figure until I sat down and ask what is it that I want to build in process of creating something big. Becoming a badass father is probably the manliest thing a man can do is what I came up with. Of course, I’m 20 as of writing this so I plan on having kids years down the line, not now lol!

When I began envisioning again, I started to write my daily kill list the night before and start to dream of a better future daily, thinking back this was also a process and is still a process(around 6 things I must do after I wake up everyday, one of them push me forward 100% and the other 5 may be there to build momentum).

Now, it fuels me by the day when I complete this daily kill list because I know I’m not just rotting away like other visionless zombies. Whenever I cross out an item, I know I’m moving. I see it. I know I’m building momentum.

My self esteem, confidence, and energy has shifted tremendously because of this daily practice.

I’m not spiritual or religious, at least I don’t think I am at the moment, but I think I’m excited everyday because there’s so much to do to get closer to all these grand vision I have for myself. Sleeping after a day of accomplishment is 10 times better than a day of vices. Every night I can see myself becoming closer to my ideal writing the items I have to do the next day. And because of that every second counts.

Some nights I find myself very thankful for being granted this privilege of being a live. Whoever brought me to this world, I wish to make that being proud when I submit my final breath. It’s my duty and responsibility to not rot away and become someone great, if not I’d wasted a great opportunity of being alive(I hope I didn’t jinx myself with this).

 

[biophase]

As mentioned in one of the previous posts, after a lot of thinking I'm feeling better now and even though I'm still a little sick (which should make me feel worse mentally), I generally don't wake up as defeated as before.

I think the main thing—for me personally, it doesn't have to be for everyone—is that I'm embracing the meaninglessness of life.

I think that before I was obsessing too much about leaving some kind of a big impact or something like that, feeling that—as gurus like to say—I need a deep sense of purpose to wake up with excitement every day. But the more you study how insignificant you are, the more laughable the notion is. I've gotten a bit more comfortable with the idea that I don't mean anything. That helps me feel better because there's no pressure. I'm free to do whatever.

And I don't mean it as an excuse to waste your life and do nothing. If building a huge business gives you joy, then do that. If you want to volunteer, then volunteer. I'm simply saying that for me personally NOT looking for a big purpose is liberating.

Also, I can relate to this article a lot:

The Negatives Of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes Talking About

Early retirement sounds great and it is great for the most part. But there are negatives of early retirement life that also needs to be discussed. I retired early in 2012, at the age of 34. But the years that followed felt unnatural, so I decided to keep busy doing some part-time consulting from...

www.financialsamurai.com

It feels like the author talks exactly about my experience so it looks like at least some of my feelings might be related to early retirement as well.

@biophase have you read this article? I remember you mentioned you listened to Noah's podcast with Sam (I listened to it as well after your recommendation). I have a feeling you'll enjoy this article.

I'm reading Sam's book now (Buy This, Not That) and so far it's fascinating as he focuses a lot on defining what financial freedom is and gives some advice I haven't seen before.

I just read the article. I don’t know if you remember this, I’m sure i posted about this before, but I went through this feeling in 2004. I had “retired” for 4 months and was extremely bored. It made me not want to work for traditional retirement.

I’ve already experienced much of what he mentions. So going through this a second time, I don’t have any of those feelings again.

Haven’t read his book yet, will download it later.

 

[fastlane_dad]

As mentioned in one of the previous posts, after a lot of thinking I'm feeling better now and even though I'm still a little sick (which should make me feel worse mentally), I generally don't wake up as defeated as before.

I think the main thing—for me personally, it doesn't have to be for everyone—is that I'm embracing the meaninglessness of life.

I think that before I was obsessing too much about leaving some kind of a big impact or something like that, feeling that—as gurus like to say—I need a deep sense of purpose to wake up with excitement every day. But the more you study how insignificant you are, the more laughable the notion is. I've gotten a bit more comfortable with the idea that I don't mean anything. That helps me feel better because there's no pressure. I'm free to do whatever.

And I don't mean it as an excuse to waste your life and do nothing. If building a huge business gives you joy, then do that. If you want to volunteer, then volunteer. I'm simply saying that for me personally NOT looking for a big purpose is liberating.

Also, I can relate to this article a lot:

The Negatives Of Early Retirement Life Nobody Likes Talking About

Early retirement sounds great and it is great for the most part. But there are negatives of early retirement life that also needs to be discussed. I retired early in 2012, at the age of 34. But the years that followed felt unnatural, so I decided to keep busy doing some part-time consulting from...

www.financialsamurai.com

It feels like the author talks exactly about my experience so it looks like at least some of my feelings might be related to early retirement as well.

Most relevant parts:







@biophase have you read this article? I remember you mentioned you listened to Noah's podcast with Sam (I listened to it as well after your recommendation). I have a feeling you'll enjoy this article.

I'm reading Sam's book now (Buy This, Not That) and so far it's fascinating as he focuses a lot on defining what financial freedom is and gives some advice I haven't seen before.

I just read the article. I don’t know if you remember this, I’m sure i posted about this before, but I went through this feeling in 2004. I had “retired” for 4 months and was extremely bored. It made me not want to work for traditional retirement.

I’ve already experienced much of what he mentions. So going through this a second time, I don’t have any of those feelings again.

Haven’t read his book yet, will download it later.

@MTF curious what exactly did you find in Sams book that you found interesting? I read the book in 24 hours after coming out, as I've loosely been following financial samurai and **some** of his articles were thought provoking to me.

With each turn of the page of his book, I found nothing but slowlane jargon, and the exact mentality this forum tries to revolt.

I could not help but laugh as I found more and more examples that he advises that I would firmly NOT stand behind, unless I'm preaching an ascetic lifestyle devoid of pleasure especially towards a younger self (or others).

Sure - I can see where to the 'masses' maybe some of his writing would apply. Besides - not everyone wants to start busines or be entrepreneurs. But I found the book typically laughable, on par with ANY other slowlane jargon advice I heard (yahoo headlines and articles come to mind) -- without taking away close to ANYTHING new out of there. I was actually quite dissapointed with what the book came out to be VS. what some of his articles were online.

Sounds like you had a different takeaway - and in no way I am confident that my takeaway is correct. I'm just firm as this book would NEVER be a recommendation for me to laying out a path to anyone looking for financial freedom.

 

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[MTF]

@MTF curious what exactly did you find in Sams book that you found interesting? I read the book in 24 hours after coming out, as I've loosely been following financial samurai and **some** of his articles were thought provoking to me.

I was reading the book now and got on the forum to respond to @biophase about Sam's book.

I'm at 20% now, after skipping some boring financial calculation subchapters and entire chapters (like the one about debt). It's very possible that the rest of the book will not appeal to me, either, as I'm seeing many slowlane chapters, too.

What I've found most interesting so far was this:

What’s the point of money, anyway? We all want to be rich, but why? To be free—free to live our lives on our own terms and in the way that energizes us.

It’s easy to forget that money is just a means to an end. We hustle to pay off debt, set up our automatic investment contributions, obsess about savings and try not to touch it, all because we want to grow our nest egg as large as possible.

But if we don’t know why we’re putting in all this effort, there’s really no point. We must have specific purposes for our money.

When it comes to money, finish your sentences. For example, if you say, “I bought twenty shares of Tesla,” it is critical to keep going with the second part of the sentence, “. . . so that I can ___________.” Or “I will max out my 401(k) for fifteen years so that I can ________.” Or “I will take this extra freelance job so that I can ________.”

This helps you remember that money alone is never your primary motivation. Money is only a means to an end. We need to connect our financial choices to our goals, and we need those goals to be tangible.

It’s not enough for your sentences to end with “so that I can have $100K in the bank” or “so that I can be a millionaire.” You have to keep going. Why do you want that money in the bank? Why do you want to be a millionaire? What are you going to do with the money once you have amassed it? Money is simply a tool, and a tool, by definition, needs to be used.

If you find yourself going through the exercise and realizing your time and investments haven’t paid for anything, you’ve got some work to do. You’ve forgotten your purpose. The goal is to always tether your investments and efforts to real things. As soon as you identify what your hard work has bought, or will buy, you’ll be much happier and significantly more motivated.

I relate to that and found it fascinating because by nature I simply save money for the sake of saving money. I find it hard to spend money (except for a few categories like education, travel or sports) and rarely connect it to a specific goal. So this is helpful to me.

He gave some examples of this during his interview with Noah Kagan such as spending 15k for a hot tub giving him way more enjoyment than having 15k. I'm not wired like that. I avoid buying stuff even if I need it and can easily afford it.

 

[fastlane_dad]

I was reading the book now and got on the forum to respond to @biophase about Sam's book.

I'm at 20% now, after skipping some boring financial calculation subchapters and entire chapters (like the one about debt). It's very possible that the rest of the book will not appeal to me, either, as I'm seeing many slowlane chapters, too.

What I've found most interesting so far was this:







I relate to that and found it fascinating because by nature I simply save money for the sake of saving money. I find it hard to spend money (except for a few categories like education, travel or sports) and rarely connect it to a specific goal. So this is helpful to me.

He gave some examples of this during his interview with Noah Kagan such as spending 15k for a hot tub giving him way more enjoyment than having 15k. I'm not wired like that. I avoid buying stuff even if I need it and can easily afford it.

I agree that there might be some philosophical nuggets buried in there, but to me you start pondering some or many of those once you are more 'financially free' or 'financially independent'.

I am all for being responsible with money starting young - get out of debt, 'save', don't take on loans you dont need, invest (majority of what this book ascribes to do) etc -- but we didn't need another book preaching that the way to do this and reach FI is to put in 80 hour work weeks, work on getting countless promotions, and saving 80% of your paycheck to invest in the stock market. That's also no way to live.

He also outlines a few 'rules of thumb' - but those are so general and only according to HIS values and what he decided is a rule of thumb. He doesn't value cars and some other material possessions as much as I do, but values a vacation home +main residence FAR higher (I'd consider some of his examples and what he did with his house + vacation home outright dumb).

I don't mind the principle of figuring out how much you need to retire, what your annual spend is like, whether you want to have steak and caviar for dinner every night or if mac and cheese is good -- BUT his vehicle for getting there, and the type of restraint and self control that he advises for people to hold onto is far and few in between that would make it unreachable for most people.

 

[MTF]

I agree that there might be some philosophical nuggets buried in there, but to me you start pondering some or many of those once you are more 'financially free' or 'financially independent'.

I bought it only for these few nuggets to learn how another retired early guy structures his life as it's a rare topic since most books only talk about how to get wealthy (and not what to do later). The rest to me is irrelevant. Before I bought it, I knew that I'd probably have to skip well over 50% of the book.

 

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[biophase]

When it comes to money, finish your sentences. For example, if you say, “I bought twenty shares of Tesla,” it is critical to keep going with the second part of the sentence, “. . . so that I can ___________.” Or “I will max out my 401(k) for fifteen years so that I can ________.” Or “I will take this extra freelance job so that I can ________


I relate to that and found it fascinating because by nature I simply save money for the sake of saving money. I find it hard to spend money (except for a few categories like education, travel or sports) and rarely connect it to a specific goal. So this is helpful to me.

Had a very relevant convo with my parents today.

In 1989 my parents bought a bottle of Erte cognac for a special occasion. Today the bottle is worth $2500.

We are cleaning out part of their house now. So I asked them, what are we going to do with this bottle. We can sell it for prob $1500, drink it or leave it in the box.

Selling would give them an extra $1500, which is pretty much meaningless.

They said we can’t drink something that expensive!

So it went back into a cardboard box in the basement.

So I asked them, what is the purpose of putting this back in the basement if we can’t sell it or drink it. They said maybe it will be worth $5000 in another 20 years.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

No. I'd be happy to go there for holidays but not to live.

Reason being that Spain is within the same timezone as UK (1 hour ahead usually) so things like Football can be watched at the same without having to wake up in the middle of night.

It's a 2 hour flight from UK (flights can be cheap) so it's easy for friends and family to come over or us to go back whenever we want.

My Father in law lives in New Zealand and I find the time difference really strange. It's usually his morning and our evening, or the other way around when we speak. It just seems too far removed from my existing life.

Plus Spain with it being large in size has lots of places to explore.

You can get a visa to Portugal easily enough, if you're willing to put in some administrative time and effort.

 

[MTF]

Had a very relevant convo with my parents today.

In 1989 my parents bought a bottle of Erte cognac for a special occasion. Today the bottle is worth $2500.

We are cleaning out part of their house now. So I asked them, what are we going to do with this bottle. We can sell it for prob $1500, drink it or leave it in the box.

Selling would give them an extra $1500, which is pretty much meaningless.

They said we can’t drink something that expensive!

So it went back into a cardboard box in the basement.

So I asked them, what is the purpose of putting this back in the basement if we can’t sell it or drink it. They said maybe it will be worth $5000 in another 20 years.

From the outside that's such an absurd way of thinking but I'm pretty sure that to them it's 100% logical. If they don't want to drink something so expensive, then perhaps they should sell it now and spend the money on something they'd find more useful. But I assume they wouldn't spend that money anyway.

 

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[Rabby]

Had a very relevant convo with my parents today.

In 1989 my parents bought a bottle of Erte cognac for a special occasion. Today the bottle is worth $2500.

We are cleaning out part of their house now. So I asked them, what are we going to do with this bottle. We can sell it for prob $1500, drink it or leave it in the box.

Selling would give them an extra $1500, which is pretty much meaningless.

They said we can’t drink something that expensive!

So it went back into a cardboard box in the basement.

So I asked them, what is the purpose of putting this back in the basement if we can’t sell it or drink it. They said maybe it will be worth $5000 in another 20 years.

My brother in law gave me a bottle of Port wine that was worth a few hundred dollars. I thanked him, and told him I would bring it back and drink it with him when it's worth $1,000. I fully intend to do that.

Funny side story. My father was hunting with some people in Scotland. The host said something like 'my cellar is your cellar!' which is not something you should say if you don't mean it. So my dad, being himself, grabbed numerous bottles on this several week trip, and took to sharing it with the gillies. Basically sitting at the staff table outside the kitchen, pouring wine and telling stories. Lol.

So the host finds them out there and his eyes get all wide, jowels shake or whatever, and he says "good God."

Apparently the bottle they were drinking at that moment "was with Napoleon at Trafalger!"

Well, what do you say? Napoleon had pretty good taste in wine, I guess. I thought this bottle was better than that Taylor Port stuff at the grocery store... that explains it then!

 

[NeoDialectic]

My brother in law gave me a bottle of Port wine that was worth a few hundred dollars. I thanked him, and told him I would bring it back and drink it with him when it's worth $1,000. I fully intend to do that.

Funny side story. My father was hunting with some people in Scotland. The host said something like 'my cellar is your cellar!' which is not something you should say if you don't mean it. So my dad, being himself, grabbed numerous bottles on this several week trip, and took to sharing it with the gillies. Basically sitting at the staff table outside the kitchen, pouring wine and telling stories. Lol.

So the host finds them out there and his eyes get all wide, jowels shake or whatever, and he says "good God."

Apparently the bottle they were drinking at that moment "was with Napoleon at Trafalger!"

Well, what do you say? Napoleon had pretty good taste in wine, I guess. I thought this bottle was better than that Taylor Port stuff at the grocery store... that explains it then!

Hahahaha

I have learned this lesson the hard way. I am now more selective with my offerings. I thought it was obvious that Johnny Walker Blue shouldn't be used for jack-n-coke, but apparently not to everyone!

I use to be very excited to share my whiskey/scotch collection with everyone that set foot inside my home. But I have found that it mostly just turns out to be a waste of good booze. It's all the same going down to them. Strong burn and funny faces. Now, unless they are a connoisseur, I take out my entry level stuff and they are just as happy!

 

[Guyfieri5]

Does anyone honestly wake up excited in the morning?

If so, what do you do?

I've always felt that this whole "create the life you can't wait to wake up to" is bullshit propagated by self-help gurus and maybe only lived by abnormally happy people who have some kind of a genetic make-up to feel like that most of the time.

I wake up excited these days. I'm training for a half marathon, have challenging work up to my ears, and will be seeing family in a couple of weeks in Houston. I'd say 90% of the time I wake up with some anxiety as I'm busy as hell but wouldn't have it any other way. I find that if I give myself some purpose each day I have a lot of energy to get things done.

 

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[MTF]

@MTF curious what exactly did you find in Sams book that you found interesting? I read the book in 24 hours after coming out, as I've loosely been following financial samurai and **some** of his articles were thought provoking to me.

I finished reading (or actually skimming through) this book and now agree with your assessment. I skipped like 80-90% of the book and there was very little advice for people who are already retired. I thought he would go into more detail about optimizing life but it was mostly advice for 9 to 5ers or boring financial talk with endless charts and tables.

 

[SteveO]

For you @MTF

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[MTF]

For you @MTF

MSN

www.msn.com

Haha I'm an introvert but not so much to live on a remote island for a full year.

 

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[Rabby]

$36,500 per night... a $13,322,500 value!

 

[Two Dog]

The entire point of building a business is supporting the life you want to live.

No, I didn't wake up crack happy every single morning of every single year for the past decade. That would be a naive wasteful fantasy that pretends life is a scripted Hollywood film with a perpetual happy ending. Friends get sick. My dog is dying from liver cirrhosis. I'm middle-aged and have had chronic back pain for the past nine years. All part of it.

All of that said, I honestly couldn't imagine a better life than what we've put together over the past ten years. My business makes that possible. We travel whenever we want, eat whatever we want, buy whatever we want, do whatever we want. Money simply buys choices. You still have to make the decisions.

I met a guy recently about twenty years older than me who owns a piano shop in town and loves what he does. After talking to him for awhile, he stopped suddenly and asked how old I was. Followed by "Just so you know, you're already in the best possible place possible. This is literally as good as it gets. Enjoy it." And he's right.