Chronic Back Pain

[MMatt]

@MMatt!

I was in a similar situation a while ago, only that I wasn't suffering for so long. I had serious back pain, like you describe it, despite my relatively young age. Two things that fixed this problem for me:

1. As mentioned a couple of times already, proper deadlifting had a huge benefit on my back in general. Since deadlifting regularly (it's been about 2,5 years now), I got rid of my regular pain and I am not affected by sitting for long hours anymore. During these last 2,5 years, I only had severe problems once, because I was wearing the wrong... SHOES.

2. Check your shoes. I had brutal pain and couldn't figure out where it was coming from. Thought I did something wrong in the gym. The weird thing was that deadlifting actually made the pain go away (so no gym mistake). In the second week of pain I realised that the pain was connected to the shoes I was wearing back then. I threw them, got some foot orthotics and I am without pain since then.

I hope that helps and you get rid of the pain soon!

I'm hitting my lower back with reverse hyperextensions only at the moment. Much less stress on my back since It's much more an isolation move. If I can ge to the point of deadlifting with comfort again I will be greatful.

Unfortunately I've tried lots of shoes and orthotics without any real help.

Action has been taken daily since this post. Did some youtube research and have been doing a stretching routing for my back and hamstrings every morning and night since posting this thread. I'm even waking up 15 mins earlier every day to fit this in.

Avoiding sitting since it irritates my back.

Called and cancelled my chiropractor schedule.

Reverse hyperextensions whenever I am lifting.

Still looking if anyone has any specific stretches for the lower back. I feel most of my stretched in the mid and upper part of my spine where the pain is all lower.

 

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[turbojarhead]

I have had much the same issue over the years. Many chiros , Mri's, docs, etc. I finally self diagnosed with piriformis syndrome. Somebody above posted info to try, priformis stretches and using a racquetball over your piriformis muscle in your buttocks. Give it a try, see if it helps. Also, you can pick up a decent mobile TENS unit on Amazon for $100. The above suggestions are what took care of the debilitating pain for me, good luck!

 

[John Page]

Exercise, exercise, stretching, a good mental attitude...no seriously. We've known for years that depression worsens chronic pain, so if you think that may be a factor in your life, try as much non-pharmalogical optimization as possible.

Stay away from chiropracters. It's never curative (though it may help temporarily). Never pay for xrays as they aren't helpful.

Fun tip: if you took 100 (or 1,000) people of all types, half with and half without chronic back pain, and MRI'd their lower backs:

* 50% would have "bad backs" by imaging.

BUT(!) you absolutely could NOT predict who would and who would not actually experience chronic pain. Not at all.

Other tips (for friends & family):

* PLEASE do not get started on opiate therapy. It's a downward spiral, doesn't help, and so many people become addicted from this condition.
* If you've had pain > 6-8 weeks, consider xrays only. We're basically looking for cancer or a fracture.
* Skelaxin (forget generic) works well for acute pain.

Thanks for listening.

Absolutely agree with you.

I remember Bret Contreras (a brilliant scientific-fitness guy) said that according to several studies, bad posture or even bulging discs were NOT correlated with pain... There's a lot of people who didn't know they had an actual problem until tested for these studies. They had zero pain. And on the other side, I had numerous studies, X rays and so on confirming that there was nothing wrong with me, yet I had debilitating low-back pain and incredible migraines that forced me to turn off all the lights and lie on the floor. It's very interesting.

The mind is by far the biggest cause of physical pain (I mean normal chronic pains).

I was able to "cure" my low-back pain, neck pain and migraines. I think the key is physical training to get stronger, and thinking strong thoughts too. Proper breathing was also key for me. Nowadays I remind myself "this migraine is caused by worries" and it goes away 80% of the times. I used to take all kinds of drugs for the same problems, and the success rate was similar.

EDIT: I used the virtual help from many great individuals. I put into practice many fixes and concepts from Kelly Starrett, Jill Miller, Ido Portal, Scott Sonnon, Bret Contreras, etc. Many things were helpful, like PVC/foam rolling, Lacrosse Balls, Dual Tennis Balls and so on... I kept the things that gave me results and discarded the rest.

 

[merc]

Exercise, exercise, stretching, a good mental attitude...no seriously. We've known for years that depression worsens chronic pain, so if you think that may be a factor in your life, try as much non-pharmalogical optimization as possible.

Stay away from chiropracters. It's never curative (though it may help temporarily). Never pay for xrays as they aren't helpful.

Fun tip: if you took 100 (or 1,000) people of all types, half with and half without chronic back pain, and MRI'd their lower backs:

* 50% would have "bad backs" by imaging.

BUT(!) you absolutely could NOT predict who would and who would not actually experience chronic pain. Not at all.

Other tips (for friends & family):

* PLEASE do not get started on opiate therapy. It's a downward spiral, doesn't help, and so many people become addicted from this condition.
* If you've had pain > 6-8 weeks, consider xrays only. We're basically looking for cancer or a fracture.
* Skelaxin (forget generic) works well for acute pain.

Thanks for listening.

A doctor that doesn't ONLY care for $$$. what a concept!

 

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[Contrarian]

Joint/back pain I've found can be caused by things you would never suspect. A couple of years ago I started getting back pain, then neck pain, then pain in my right hip (especially if I walked downhill for any length of time), then pain in my right knee, numbness in my right foot and leg. It was enough to stop me from walking anywhere.

Got myself a really good PT, physio and chiropractor...fixed it (well, I keep it at bay anyway) over many months...turns out it all stemmed back to loss of motion in my left ankle due to arthritis from a motorcycle accident years ago, and I wasn't even aware of the loss of motion. Meant overcompensating with my other leg, which sent a chain reaction of inflamed tendons and terrible posture right the way up my body even meaning my shoulders weren't sitting straight.

The physio got me doing squats in front of the mirror and I was squatting right over on one side and didn't even notice. It's amazing what your body learns to accept as "normal movement" until you retrain it. Could be a weakness or instability elsewhere in your body causing your back pain, likewise. If I were you, I'd find a shit-hot sports PT who really knows their biomechanics.

 

[Iwokeup]

A doctor that doesn't ONLY care for $$$. what a concept!

You know what I think of this comment? That you are an ignorant a$$. You're probably the kind of person who thinks that it's okay for SOME people to "deserve" to get paid well for providing value, just not everyone. You're probably also the same kind of a**hole who expects "free" medical advice (maybe even treatment) because it's your "right."

Thank you SO MUCH for your show of support.

To the others in this thread with the good advice, well-done and thanks for contributing.

 

[Damage Inc.]

I know there's a lot of skepticism for chiropractors, and sure some of them are a little out there, but they've helped me out. When I was about 14 or 15 I got some serious back pain and certain movements would trigger pain so bad that I couldn't stand. A few weeks of regular chiropractor visits cleared it up, and it never came back when I stopped going. Just my experience.

 

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[merc]

You know what I think of this comment? That you are an ignorant a$$. You're probably the kind of person who thinks that it's okay for SOME people to "deserve" to get paid well for providing value, just not everyone. You're probably also the same kind of a**hole who expects "free" medical advice (maybe even treatment) because it's your "right."

Thank you SO MUCH for your show of support.

To the others in this thread with the good advice, well-done and thanks for contributing.

Wow. I think you might have taken my post the wrong way. First off, your assumptions are wrong. I don't expect "free medical advice" and certainly don't expect free treatment - that's a whole other political issue that I don' t think this thread should de-rail to. My post was inferring that not ALL doctors in this country are looking out for patients' best interests.

Listen man, I worked in the medical field for a little under 3 years as a biller (for those that don't know - a connector from the doctor's medical practice to the insurance companies) and have seen a lot of things. I could probably write an e-book about how some doctors abuse the broken system that is current health insurance to rip patients off for profit.

Obviously this is just from my (limited) personal experiences working in a few offices but that is how I came to that conclusion. I'm not sure why you took that as a personal assault but that's what I've seen in the real world and trust me, it ain't pretty.

My point is this: choosing the right doctor is more important than most people think.

 

[Iwokeup]

Wow. I think you might have taken my post the wrong way. First off, your assumptions are wrong. I don't expect "free medical advice" and certainly don't expect free treatment - that's a whole other political issue that I don' t think this thread should de-rail to. My post was inferring that not ALL doctors in this country are looking out for patients' best interests.

Listen man, I worked in the medical field for a little under 3 years as a biller (for those that don't know - a connector from the doctor's medical practice to the insurance companies) and have seen a lot of things. I could probably write an e-book about how some doctors abuse the broken system that is current health insurance to rip patients off for profit.

Obviously this is just from my (limited) personal experiences working in a few offices but that is how I came to that conclusion. I'm not sure why you took that as a personal assault but that's what I've seen in the real world and trust me, it ain't pretty.

My point is this: choosing the right doctor is more important than most people think.

Yeah, but the way that you expressed yourself was a classic "back handed compliment." Think if you said, "Wow, a fat girl who doesn't always think about her next meal." You THINK that you're complimenting someone but you're really doing the opposite.

And for F's sake - you were a BILLER.

* You have NO IDEA what went on between the patient and physician, and you most likely lack(ed) the knowledge to know why or how something was billed or coded. Trust me. I worked as a PCA while I was in college and I thought that I "knew" what medicine was all about. I had no idea. None at all.

* Yes, some physicians do obviously care about the bottom line. Most just want to make a decent living and go on about their lives. Just because some a**hole doctors abuse the system (and they're out there) doesn't mean that most do. The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of physicians try to provide the best care possible.

 

[Shades]

Yeah, but the way that you expressed yourself was a classic "back handed compliment." Think if you said, "Wow, a fat girl who doesn't always think about her next meal." You THINK that you're complimenting someone but you're really doing the opposite.

And for F's sake - you were a BILLER.

* You have NO IDEA what went on between the patient and physician, and you most likely lack(ed) the knowledge to know why or how something was billed or coded. Trust me. I worked as a PCA while I was in college and I thought that I "knew" what medicine was all about. I had no idea. None at all.

* Yes, some physicians do obviously care about the bottom line. Most just want to make a decent living and go on about their lives. Just because some a**hole doctors abuse the system (and they're out there) doesn't mean that most do. The vast (and I mean VAST) majority of physicians try to provide the best care possible.

The last part, Id say that really depends. If you have something typical wrong with you, odds are you will get great care in this country. If you have something out of the norm, thats a totally different ball game in my experience. You will likely find yourself looking for someone who can actually help you and come across many that just dont know WTF they are doing in the process. Luckily we live in a time with so much info available to us and the ability to communicate easily with so many people across the country that if you put effort into yourself you will be able to find the right people.

I cant express to you the pure joy of finally finding quality doctors that 100% know what they are doing. When you dont have something common like a broken leg this is not always easy. And you know to me the worst part is not that every doctor/specialist doesnt know everything. Thats expected. I dont expect a doctor to know everything about everything obviously. But its the fact that they dont know, and refuse to admit they dont know. Which can lead to many unneeded headaches for a person who has already been through the ringer. I mean I have seen local Anytown, USA doctors refuse to believe the identical findings of two leading specialists in that field. I've seen multiple people with serious conditions get pushed aside by the first or second doctor they have seen because the doctor didn't have a clue what he was dealing with, and instead of admitting that, its easier to call it "Conversion Disorder" these days. This is why its so important to do your own research and care about yourself enough to find the right people.

This is no shot at you. It sounds like you are one of the good ones that your patients are lucky to come across. But it makes me squirm a bit to hear the vast majority of physicians do their job well. Ive seen too much of the dirty underbelly over the last 15 years.

 

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[Iwokeup]

The last part, Id say that really depends. If you have something typical wrong with you, odds are you will get great care in this country. If you have something out of the norm, thats a totally different ball game in my experience. You will likely find yourself looking for someone who can actually help you and come across many that just dont know WTF they are doing in the process. Luckily we live in a time with so much info available to us and the ability to communicate easily with so many people across the country that if you put effort into yourself you will be able to find the right people.

I cant express to you the pure joy of finally finding quality doctors that 100% know what they are doing. When you dont have something common like a broken leg this is not always easy. And you know to me the worst part is not that every doctor/specialist doesnt know everything. Thats expected. I dont expect a doctor to know everything about everything obviously. But its the fact that they dont know, and refuse to admit they dont know. Which can lead to many unneeded headaches for a person who has already been through the ringer. I mean I have seen local Anytown, USA doctors refuse to believe the identical findings of two leading specialists in that field. I've seen multiple people with serious conditions get pushed aside by the first or second doctor they have seen because the doctor didn't have a clue what he was dealing with, and instead of admitting that, its easier to call it "Conversion Disorder" these days. This is why its so important to do your own research and care about yourself enough to find the right people.

This is no shot at you. It sounds like you are one of the good ones that your patients are lucky to come across. But it makes me squirm a bit to hear the vast majority of physicians do their job well. Ive seen too much of the dirty underbelly over the last 15 years.

Interesting post, and I thank you for it.

I don't want to derail this thread any more than it already has been. If y'all are interested in a doctor/health/whatever discussion, I would be down for a separate thread.

 

[Midas Touch]

You need a massage therapist to loosen tight, overused muscles and a personal trainer to help you strengthen the weak muscles for balance.

For massage therapy, maybe a person who specializes in Active Release Therapy or sports massage? A personal trainer so you can save time.

 

[Sean P]

Anyone deal with chronic back pain or have found a cure for it?

Yes I found a pain relieving method but it is only a temporary cure for now because the pain comes back. In order to make it work permanently I have to apply the therapy regularly and work on my back muscles.

The therapy that I am talking about is inversion. Although I don't do a typical inversion, I practice another version of it by simply lying down and putting my legs up on a wall. I also put a cushion underneath so that my heart is at a lower level than my lower back. In 2-3 minutes the magic starts working and my pain disappears. But when I sit for 4-5 hours or more the pain comes back. I think if I reduce my sitting time and keep doing the right exercises(and inversion) I will become fine over due course of time. At one point I was very worried having heard about painful surgeries and expensive treatments but now I am confident that I can cure myself.

I have been doing yoga exercises regularly(2-3 times a day, for the back) and daily walking/jogging along with some body toning ever since the pain increased a few months ago. The more your body stretches the better you will get - on the other hand the more you sit the worse it will get. Your lifestyle(or at least the way your work) has to change. Many offices have standing work desks and I am planning to organize one for myself at my home office(it's a height adjustable table to start with). Having said that standing too much can also give you a back pain - alternating sitting and standing while working may definitely work better.

Try it, but start slowly - you'll find some articles with images on the web and videos on YouTube(google legs up the wall).

 

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[MMatt]

20 days later, stretching twice a day back and hamstrings, lots of ab strengthening, reverse hyperextensions and still in alot of pain. All I can think of at this point is that electric therapy machine.

 

[DST]

Have you tried just squatting for 10 consecutive minutes a day?

Kelly Starrett, author of "Becoming a Supple Leopard"

 

[Ezio]

http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html


http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...performance_repair/neanderthal_no_more_part_i

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...erformance_repair/neanderthal_no_more_part_ii
+3, 4, 5.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ored-for-a-long-time.49874/page-2#post-399323

 

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[DrPenguin]

Things that help with back pain:

• Yoga and stretching
• Resistance band exercises
• Weightlifting with proper form
• Good fats - When I moved to Japan, I ate fish three times a day and my chronic back pain was almost non-existent
• Opioids

Try using all of the above and your back pain should lessen.

P.S. I'm not a people doctor. Just penguins. So YMMV.

 

[Peta of JamRock]

I have a pinched nerve, and there are certain times where sitting up straight is unbearably painful. I had to get physiotherapy two years ago when the pain was so terrible that it forced me to stop working. Physio has helped a great deal, but it's not an ideal or cost-effective long term plan.

A standing desk is in my Must Have list so I won't be spending so much of my time on my butt, and I've slowly been easing back into working out with 5 minute warm ups. 4 weeks in and I can finally complete the exercises without being winded (yay me!). After that, I will slowly incorporate some core strengthening exercises and stretches. I know my pain is caused from years of sitting at my computer in a less-than-adequate chair, so it will take a while to undo that damage.

 

[Josh]

20 days later, stretching twice a day back and hamstrings, lots of ab strengthening, reverse hyperextensions and still in alot of pain. All I can think of at this point is that electric therapy machine.

20 days is nothing, don't lose motivation. It took me around 6 months of on average 30 minutes a day of rehab to 'fix' my back. 2 years ago I could barely tie my shoelaces, now I can deadlift 215kg. Try some more release work with a lacrosse ball and check out Kelly Starrett like many others have recommended.

 

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[Rowser]

20 days later, stretching twice a day back and hamstrings, lots of ab strengthening, reverse hyperextensions and still in alot of pain. All I can think of at this point is that electric therapy machine.

Hey there, I'm new on here and just wanted to let you know about my experiences with back pain. Having played professional soccer for 20 years my back and hips have taken a bit of a beating due to all the rotation when kicking.

I have had various treatments over the years and had numerous advice on what I should do to aid the back pain. Unfortunately the majority of back pain comes as a result of the things you do daily. For example, how you sleep, what you sleep on, your car seat and the position that you drive in, do you carry a heavy bag on the same shoulder if you commute, sitting for long periods without getting up, sports.....the list goes on!!

You have had a lot of people giving you remedies but if you keep doing the same thing that's causing the back pain the remedies wont work. Now that I have retired from playing (the main cause of my back pain) the pain has almost disappeared.

Just a thought. Hope you find the solution because it isn't great feeling!!

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Here in the United States 80% of the American population report that they have lower back pain!
Which usually come from Muscular Imbalances (muscles are dominating opposing muscles), and weak core.

Saying that it get worst when you sit for a long amount of time id say that you do have muscluler imbalances, when we sit for a long amount of time our quads (front leg muscles) shorten and tilt the pelvis. which knocks everything out of arrangement and out of line (the bodies kinetic chain)
so I would recommend stretching those quads out and crotch muscles, along with some core excersizes to strengthen the muscles that are suppose to help stabilize the spine.

Also Hold the Stretches for 30 seconds to 1min. This is so to muscle spindle fibers that contract against the stretch (for protection) relax and you actually get the muscles to stretch. do this 3 times.

Massage helps loosen up the muscles as well and bring the body back into alignment. Ill Make a Video Tomorrow about it and post it.
Also im Actually writing about that might help that ill hopefully have done this week ima give for free for the first week if you would like. hope this helps good luck

 

[Peta of JamRock]

Here in the United States 80% of the American population report that they have lower back pain!
Which usually come from Muscular Imbalances (muscles are dominating opposing muscles), and weak core.

Saying that it get worst when you sit for a long amount of time id say that you do have muscluler imbalances, when we sit for a long amount of time our quads (front leg muscles) shorten and tilt the pelvis. which knocks everything out of arrangement and out of line (the bodies kinetic chain)
so I would recommend stretching those quads out and crotch muscles, along with some core excersizes to strengthen the muscles that are suppose to help stabilize the spine.

Also Hold the Stretches for 30 seconds to 1min. This is so to muscle spindle fibers that contract against the stretch (for protection) relax and you actually get the muscles to stretch. do this 3 times.

Massage helps loosen up the muscles as well and bring the body back into alignment. Ill Make a Video Tomorrow about it and post it.
Also im Actually writing about that might help that ill hopefully have done this week ima give for free for the first week if you would like. hope this helps good luck

Thanks, man. Well appreciated. Especially since I woke up this morning with the right side of my lower-back screaming.

 

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[DayIFly]

I have a pinched nerve, and there are certain times where sitting up straight is unbearably painful. I had to get physiotherapy two years ago when the pain was so terrible that it forced me to stop working. Physio has helped a great deal, but it's not an ideal or cost-effective long term plan.

A standing desk is in my Must Have list so I won't be spending so much of my time on my butt, and I've slowly been easing back into working out with 5 minute warm ups. 4 weeks in and I can finally complete the exercises without being winded (yay me!). After that, I will slowly incorporate some core strengthening exercises and stretches. I know my pain is caused from years of sitting at my computer in a less-than-adequate chair, so it will take a while to undo that damage.

I am not a professional, so do everything only under the supervision of your therapist, doctor, etc.

For everybody who has problems with sitting long periods of time, I would recommend looking into piriformis stretches. As you see below in the pic, the sciatic nerve position varies and it depends on the individual person.

If the nerve runs through, then you´ll probably get pain if this muscle gets too stiff. And it gets stiff if you sit all day long. Then it pinches/irritates the nerve (buttock pain, pain radiating down the leg, etc.).

But before you look into it, you should know that if your hip flexors are very stiff too, then this will kind of inhibit or prevent a good piriformis stretch. So the hip flexors need to be stretched before that. And in general foam rolling both muscles helps to loosen up these areas.

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Yes! Myofascial release (foam rolling) is really good to loosen the muscles probably one of my fav cuz its so easy Ps. Im rendering the video and then have to upload it to youtube, just got home from work.

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Here it is, I tried not to make it to overwhelming or complicated haha so i hope this helps.

 

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[Ezio]

Here it is, I tried not to make it to overwhelming or complicated haha so i hope this helps.

What is title of that book?

 

[Uly Sambrano]

What is title of that book?

ACE Personal Trainer Manual Fourth Edition

 

[MEAH]

Only thing that works well continually for me is using a hardcore medical TENS unit

 

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[Everyman]

I have been in chronic back pain, several spots, not one(!) for the last 14 years. It started when I was 20...... really early....

So to develop a back pain you need to (might want to add of course to be sure you back hurts constantly):

- build low self-confidence (should be called self-unconfidence imo) - have parents that are never satisfied with your results as a kid, even when you are one of the most talented in your school, maybe in the country, also good to have coach at school who brings you down....

- play a sport which requires jumping/throwing or that puts a lot of pressure on your body, with force (e.g. jumping a lot - for me it was volleyball) - the more you repeat fast, rapid, strong movements and hit something (concrete or hard floor will do) the better

- play a heavy instrument, e.g. electric guitar, which you will slouch to. Combining with all above, and men's natural tendency to push shoulders forward, to aim better at targets (aaah hunter-gatherers times), will create a lot of pain in your

lumbar
thoracic
neck spine

Then go to work at a desk, sitting all day, well after schooling it should be a piece of cake anyway... Your head will lean forward, creating even more pressure on your spine. Also when you are tall, it doesn't help. You tend to slouch to talk to these shorter homo sapiens

Ok enough with the rant. It has really happened. I am on my way to regress with the damage done by my neglect... Read below, in short, it may help you.

How To Prevent Back Pain (if possible...):

1. Exercise moderately. If you want to go pro, have your parents' support, or at least a coach with a brain. These days it's easy because everything is on youtube and on the internet. Or is it?
2. Work on your self-confidence - work on your mindset. I recommend two books - one by Carol Dweck (Mindset) and the other by Robert Glover (No More Mr Nice Guy)
3. Maybe the most important. Stop blaming the outside world, and stop thinking about the past. Focus on "now" and the pain, until you spend at least an hour a day addressing this pain.
4. At the moment I am leaning my back against a spiky ball. Acupuncture. Relaxation of muscles... all services in one, 5 euro ball.
5. It goes with no 1. Stretch. Warm up too.
6. Work on stress. It causes most of our illnesses, so they say. How to relax? Play. Do what you like doing without thinking it's a waste of time....
7.... many more....


I have visited so many physios... Expensive and cheap etc etc... They didn't help me, but they did - indirectly. They showed me different stuff and techniques to work with muscles and spines. I have done so many things that .... I almost gave up. But here I am. I can elaborate more, if there is interest. Cheers.

 

[DonTriumph]

Hello. Here's my suggestions:

1. Do body squats.
2. Aside from body squats, have a workout routine.
3. If you have a habit of lying (in bed/sofa) and/or sitting for hours, stop it too. Make a habit of standing from time to time. Based from personal experience, the more I lie for hours the more my back felt weak. So I make a habit of not lying and lazying on bed. Like, sometimes I stand up when I read.