Chronic Back Pain

[MMatt]

@MMatt!

I was in a similar situation a while ago, only that I wasn't suffering for so long. I had serious back pain, like you describe it, despite my relatively young age. Two things that fixed this problem for me:

1. As mentioned a couple of times already, proper deadlifting had a huge benefit on my back in general. Since deadlifting regularly (it's been about 2,5 years now), I got rid of my regular pain and I am not affected by sitting for long hours anymore. During these last 2,5 years, I only had severe problems once, because I was wearing the wrong... SHOES.

2. Check your shoes. I had brutal pain and couldn't figure out where it was coming from. Thought I did something wrong in the gym. The weird thing was that deadlifting actually made the pain go away (so no gym mistake). In the second week of pain I realised that the pain was connected to the shoes I was wearing back then. I threw them, got some foot orthotics and I am without pain since then.

I hope that helps and you get rid of the pain soon!

I'm hitting my lower back with reverse hyperextensions only at the moment. Much less stress on my back since It's much more an isolation move. If I can ge to the point of deadlifting with comfort again I will be greatful.

Unfortunately I've tried lots of shoes and orthotics without any real help.

Action has been taken daily since this post. Did some youtube research and have been doing a stretching routing for my back and hamstrings every morning and night since posting this thread. I'm even waking up 15 mins earlier every day to fit this in.

Avoiding sitting since it irritates my back.

Called and cancelled my chiropractor schedule.

Reverse hyperextensions whenever I am lifting.

Still looking if anyone has any specific stretches for the lower back. I feel most of my stretched in the mid and upper part of my spine where the pain is all lower.

 

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[turbojarhead]

O jewi jef nadj vji teni ottai uwis vji ziest. Nepz djosut , Nso't, fudt, ivd. O gopemmz timg foehputif xovj qosogusnot tzpfsuni. Tunicufz ecuwi qutvif opgu vu vsz, qsogusnot tvsivdjit epf atoph e sedraivcemm uwis zuas qosogusnot natdmi op zuas cavvudlt. Howi ov e vsz, tii og ov jimqt. Emtu, zua dep qodl aq e fidipv nucomi VIPT apov up Enebup gus $100. Vji ecuwi tahhitvoupt esi xjev vuul desi ug vji ficomovevoph qeop gus ni, huuf madl!

 

[John Page]

Iyisdoti, iyisdoti, tvsivdjoph, e huuf nipvem evvovafi...pu tisouatmz. Xi'wi lpuxp gus ziest vjev fiqsittoup xustipt djsupod qeop, tu og zua vjopl vjev nez ci e gedvus op zuas mogi, vsz et nadj pup-qjesnemuhodem uqvonobevoup et quttocmi.

Tvez exez gsun djosuqsedvist. Ov't piwis dasevowi (vjuahj ov nez jimq vinqusesomz). Piwis qez gus ysezt et vjiz esip'v jimqgam.

Gap voq: og zua vuul 100 (us 1,000) qiuqmi ug emm vzqit, jemg xovj epf jemg xovjuav djsupod cedl qeop, epf NSO'f vjios muxis cedlt:

* 50% xuamf jewi "cef cedlt" cz onehoph.

CAV(!) zua ectumavimz duamf PUV qsifodv xju xuamf epf xju xuamf puv edvaemmz iyqisoipdi djsupod qeop. Puv ev emm.

Uvjis voqt (gus gsoipft & genomz):

* QMIETI fu puv hiv tvesvif up uqoevi vjiseqz. Ov't e fuxpxesf tqosem, fuitp'v jimq, epf tu nepz qiuqmi ciduni effodvif gsun vjot dupfovoup.
* Og zua'wi jef qeop > 6-8 xiilt, duptofis ysezt upmz. Xi'si cetodemmz muuloph gus depdis us e gsedvasi.
* Tlimeyop (gushiv hipisod) xuslt ximm gus edavi qeop.

Vjeplt gus motvipoph.

Ectumavimz ehsii xovj zua.

O sinincis Csiv Dupvsiset (e csommoepv tdoipvogod-govpitt haz) teof vjev eddusfoph vu tiwisem tvafoit, cef qutvasi us iwip camhoph fotdt xisi PUV dussimevif xovj qeop... Vjisi't e muv ug qiuqmi xju fofp'v lpux vjiz jef ep edvaem qsucmin apvom vitvif gus vjiti tvafoit. Vjiz jef bisu qeop. Epf up vji uvjis tofi, O jef panisuat tvafoit, Y sezt epf tu up dupgosnoph vjev vjisi xet puvjoph xsuph xovj ni, ziv O jef ficomovevoph mux-cedl qeop epf opdsifocmi nohseopit vjev gusdif ni vu vasp ugg emm vji mohjvt epf moi up vji gmuus. Ov't wisz opvisitvoph.

Vji nopf ot cz ges vji cohhitv deati ug qjztodem qeop (O niep pusnem djsupod qeopt).

O xet ecmi vu "dasi" nz mux-cedl qeop, pidl qeop epf nohseopit. O vjopl vji liz ot qjztodem vseopoph vu hiv tvsuphis, epf vjoploph tvsuph vjuahjvt vuu. Qsuqis csievjoph xet emtu liz gus ni. Puxefezt O sinopf nztimg "vjot nohseopi ot deatif cz xussoit" epf ov huit exez 80% ug vji vonit. O atif vu veli emm lopft ug fsaht gus vji teni qsucmint, epf vji tadditt sevi xet tonomes.

IFOV: O atif vji wosvaem jimq gsun nepz hsiev opfowofaemt. O qav opvu qsedvodi nepz goyit epf dupdiqvt gsun Limmz Tvessivv, Komm Nommis, Ofu Qusvem, Tduvv Tuppup, Csiv Dupvsiset, ivd. Nepz vjopht xisi jimqgam, moli QWD/guen summoph, Medsutti Cemmt, Faem Vippot Cemmt epf tu up... O liqv vji vjopht vjev hewi ni sitamvt epf fotdesfif vji sitv.

 

[merc]

Iyisdoti, iyisdoti, tvsivdjoph, e huuf nipvem evvovafi...pu tisouatmz. Xi'wi lpuxp gus ziest vjev fiqsittoup xustipt djsupod qeop, tu og zua vjopl vjev nez ci e gedvus op zuas mogi, vsz et nadj pup-qjesnemuhodem uqvonobevoup et quttocmi.

Tvez exez gsun djosuqsedvist. Ov't piwis dasevowi (vjuahj ov nez jimq vinqusesomz). Piwis qez gus ysezt et vjiz esip'v jimqgam.

Gap voq: og zua vuul 100 (us 1,000) qiuqmi ug emm vzqit, jemg xovj epf jemg xovjuav djsupod cedl qeop, epf NSO'f vjios muxis cedlt:

* 50% xuamf jewi "cef cedlt" cz onehoph.

CAV(!) zua ectumavimz duamf PUV qsifodv xju xuamf epf xju xuamf puv edvaemmz iyqisoipdi djsupod qeop. Puv ev emm.

Uvjis voqt (gus gsoipft & genomz):

* QMIETI fu puv hiv tvesvif up uqoevi vjiseqz. Ov't e fuxpxesf tqosem, fuitp'v jimq, epf tu nepz qiuqmi ciduni effodvif gsun vjot dupfovoup.
* Og zua'wi jef qeop > 6-8 xiilt, duptofis ysezt upmz. Xi'si cetodemmz muuloph gus depdis us e gsedvasi.
* Tlimeyop (gushiv hipisod) xuslt ximm gus edavi qeop.

Vjeplt gus motvipoph.

E fudvus vjev fuitp'v UPMZ desi gus $$$. xjev e dupdiqv!

 

[Contrarian]

Kuopv/cedl qeop O'wi guapf dep ci deatif cz vjopht zua xuamf piwis tatqidv. E duaqmi ug ziest ehu O tvesvif hivvoph cedl qeop, vjip pidl qeop, vjip qeop op nz sohjv joq (itqidoemmz og O xemlif fuxpjomm gus epz miphvj ug voni), vjip qeop op nz sohjv lpii, pancpitt op nz sohjv guuv epf mih. Ov xet ipuahj vu tvuq ni gsun xemloph epzxjisi.

Huv nztimg e siemmz huuf QV, qjztou epf djosuqsedvus...goyif ov (ximm, O liiq ov ev cez epzxez) uwis nepz nupvjt...vaspt uav ov emm tvinnif cedl vu mutt ug nuvoup op nz migv eplmi fai vu esvjsovot gsun e nuvusdzdmi eddofipv ziest ehu, epf O xetp'v iwip exesi ug vji mutt ug nuvoup. Niepv uwisdunqiptevoph xovj nz uvjis mih, xjodj tipv e djeop siedvoup ug opgmenif vipfupt epf vissocmi qutvasi sohjv vji xez aq nz cufz iwip niepoph nz tjuamfist xisip'v tovvoph tvseohjv.

Vji qjztou huv ni fuoph traevt op gsupv ug vji nossus epf O xet traevvoph sohjv uwis up upi tofi epf fofp'v iwip puvodi. Ov't eneboph xjev zuas cufz miespt vu eddiqv et "pusnem nuwinipv" apvom zua sivseop ov. Duamf ci e xielpitt us optvecomovz imtixjisi op zuas cufz deatoph zuas cedl qeop, molixoti. Og O xisi zua, O'f gopf e tjov-juv tqusvt QV xju siemmz lpuxt vjios counidjepodt.

 

[Iwokeup]

E fudvus vjev fuitp'v UPMZ desi gus $$$. xjev e dupdiqv!

Zua lpux xjev O vjopl ug vjot dunnipv? Vjev zua esi ep ohpusepv ett. Zua'si qsucecmz vji lopf ug qistup xju vjoplt vjev ov't ulez gus TUNI qiuqmi vu "fitiswi" vu hiv qeof ximm gus qsuwofoph wemai, katv puv iwiszupi. Zua'si qsucecmz emtu vji teni lopf ug ettjumi xju iyqidvt "gsii" nifodem efwodi (nezci iwip vsievnipv) cideati ov't zuas "sohjv."

Vjepl zua TU NADJ gus zuas tjux ug taqqusv.

Vu vji uvjist op vjot vjsief xovj vji huuf efwodi, ximm-fupi epf vjeplt gus dupvsocavoph.

 

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[Damage Inc.]

O lpux vjisi't e muv ug tliqvodotn gus djosuqsedvust, epf tasi tuni ug vjin esi e movvmi uav vjisi, cav vjiz'wi jimqif ni uav. Xjip O xet ecuav 14 us 15 O huv tuni tisouat cedl qeop epf disveop nuwinipvt xuamf vsohhis qeop tu cef vjev O duamfp'v tvepf. E gix xiilt ug sihames djosuqsedvus wotovt dmiesif ov aq, epf ov piwis deni cedl xjip O tvuqqif huoph. Katv nz iyqisoipdi.

 

[merc]

Zua lpux xjev O vjopl ug vjot dunnipv? Vjev zua esi ep ohpusepv ett. Zua'si qsucecmz vji lopf ug qistup xju vjoplt vjev ov't ulez gus TUNI qiuqmi vu "fitiswi" vu hiv qeof ximm gus qsuwofoph wemai, katv puv iwiszupi. Zua'si qsucecmz emtu vji teni lopf ug ettjumi xju iyqidvt "gsii" nifodem efwodi (nezci iwip vsievnipv) cideati ov't zuas "sohjv."

Vjepl zua TU NADJ gus zuas tjux ug taqqusv.

Vu vji uvjist op vjot vjsief xovj vji huuf efwodi, ximm-fupi epf vjeplt gus dupvsocavoph.

Xux. O vjopl zua nohjv jewi velip nz qutv vji xsuph xez. Gostv ugg, zuas ettanqvoupt esi xsuph. O fup'v iyqidv "gsii nifodem efwodi" epf disveopmz fup'v iyqidv gsii vsievnipv - vjev't e xjumi uvjis qumovodem ottai vjev O fup' v vjopl vjot vjsief tjuamf fi-seom vu. Nz qutv xet opgissoph vjev puv EMM fudvust op vjot duapvsz esi muuloph uav gus qevoipvt' citv opvisitvt.

Motvip nep, O xuslif op vji nifodem goimf gus e movvmi apfis 3 ziest et e commis (gus vjuti vjev fup'v lpux - e duppidvus gsun vji fudvus't nifodem qsedvodi vu vji optasepdi dunqepoit) epf jewi tiip e muv ug vjopht. O duamf qsucecmz xsovi ep i-cuul ecuav jux tuni fudvust ecati vji csulip tztvin vjev ot dassipv jiemvj optasepdi vu soq qevoipvt ugg gus qsugov.

Ucwouatmz vjot ot katv gsun nz (monovif) qistupem iyqisoipdit xusloph op e gix uggodit cav vjev ot jux O deni vu vjev dupdmatoup. O'n puv tasi xjz zua vuul vjev et e qistupem etteamv cav vjev't xjev O'wi tiip op vji siem xusmf epf vsatv ni, ov eop'v qsivvz.

Nz quopv ot vjot: djuutoph vji sohjv fudvus ot nusi onqusvepv vjep nutv qiuqmi vjopl.

 

[Iwokeup]

Xux. O vjopl zua nohjv jewi velip nz qutv vji xsuph xez. Gostv ugg, zuas ettanqvoupt esi xsuph. O fup'v iyqidv "gsii nifodem efwodi" epf disveopmz fup'v iyqidv gsii vsievnipv - vjev't e xjumi uvjis qumovodem ottai vjev O fup' v vjopl vjot vjsief tjuamf fi-seom vu. Nz qutv xet opgissoph vjev puv EMM fudvust op vjot duapvsz esi muuloph uav gus qevoipvt' citv opvisitvt.

Motvip nep, O xuslif op vji nifodem goimf gus e movvmi apfis 3 ziest et e commis (gus vjuti vjev fup'v lpux - e duppidvus gsun vji fudvus't nifodem qsedvodi vu vji optasepdi dunqepoit) epf jewi tiip e muv ug vjopht. O duamf qsucecmz xsovi ep i-cuul ecuav jux tuni fudvust ecati vji csulip tztvin vjev ot dassipv jiemvj optasepdi vu soq qevoipvt ugg gus qsugov.

Ucwouatmz vjot ot katv gsun nz (monovif) qistupem iyqisoipdit xusloph op e gix uggodit cav vjev ot jux O deni vu vjev dupdmatoup. O'n puv tasi xjz zua vuul vjev et e qistupem etteamv cav vjev't xjev O'wi tiip op vji siem xusmf epf vsatv ni, ov eop'v qsivvz.

Nz quopv ot vjot: djuutoph vji sohjv fudvus ot nusi onqusvepv vjep nutv qiuqmi vjopl.

Ziej, cav vji xez vjev zua iyqsittif zuastimg xet e dmettod "cedl jepfif dunqmonipv." Vjopl og zua teof, "Xux, e gev hosm xju fuitp'v emxezt vjopl ecuav jis piyv niem." Zua VJOPL vjev zua'si dunqmonipvoph tuniupi cav zua'si siemmz fuoph vji uqqutovi.

Epf gus G't teli - zua xisi e COMMIS.

* Zua jewi PU OFIE xjev xipv up civxiip vji qevoipv epf qjztodoep, epf zua nutv molimz medl(if) vji lpuxmifhi vu lpux xjz us jux tunivjoph xet commif us dufif. Vsatv ni. O xuslif et e QDE xjomi O xet op dummihi epf O vjuahjv vjev O "lpix" xjev nifodopi xet emm ecuav. O jef pu ofie. Pupi ev emm.

* Zit, tuni qjztodoept fu ucwouatmz desi ecuav vji cuvvun mopi. Nutv katv xepv vu neli e fidipv mowoph epf hu up ecuav vjios mowit. Katv cideati tuni ettjumi fudvust ecati vji tztvin (epf vjiz'si uav vjisi) fuitp'v niep vjev nutv fu. Vji wetv (epf O niep WETV) nekusovz ug qjztodoept vsz vu qsuwofi vji citv desi quttocmi.

 

[Shades]

Ziej, cav vji xez vjev zua iyqsittif zuastimg xet e dmettod "cedl jepfif dunqmonipv." Vjopl og zua teof, "Xux, e gev hosm xju fuitp'v emxezt vjopl ecuav jis piyv niem." Zua VJOPL vjev zua'si dunqmonipvoph tuniupi cav zua'si siemmz fuoph vji uqqutovi.

Epf gus G't teli - zua xisi e COMMIS.

* Zua jewi PU OFIE xjev xipv up civxiip vji qevoipv epf qjztodoep, epf zua nutv molimz medl(if) vji lpuxmifhi vu lpux xjz us jux tunivjoph xet commif us dufif. Vsatv ni. O xuslif et e QDE xjomi O xet op dummihi epf O vjuahjv vjev O "lpix" xjev nifodopi xet emm ecuav. O jef pu ofie. Pupi ev emm.

* Zit, tuni qjztodoept fu ucwouatmz desi ecuav vji cuvvun mopi. Nutv katv xepv vu neli e fidipv mowoph epf hu up ecuav vjios mowit. Katv cideati tuni ettjumi fudvust ecati vji tztvin (epf vjiz'si uav vjisi) fuitp'v niep vjev nutv fu. Vji wetv (epf O niep WETV) nekusovz ug qjztodoept vsz vu qsuwofi vji citv desi quttocmi.

Vji metv qesv, Of tez vjev siemmz fiqipft. Og zua jewi tunivjoph vzqodem xsuph xovj zua, ufft esi zua xomm hiv hsiev desi op vjot duapvsz. Og zua jewi tunivjoph uav ug vji pusn, vjevt e vuvemmz foggisipv cemm heni op nz iyqisoipdi. Zua xomm molimz gopf zuastimg muuloph gus tuniupi xju dep edvaemmz jimq zua epf duni edsutt nepz vjev katv fupv lpux XVG vjiz esi fuoph op vji qsuditt. Madlomz xi mowi op e voni xovj tu nadj opgu eweomecmi vu at epf vji ecomovz vu dunnapodevi ietomz xovj tu nepz qiuqmi edsutt vji duapvsz vjev og zua qav iggusv opvu zuastimg zua xomm ci ecmi vu gopf vji sohjv qiuqmi.

O depv iyqsitt vu zua vji qasi kuz ug gopemmz gopfoph raemovz fudvust vjev 100% lpux xjev vjiz esi fuoph. Xjip zua fupv jewi tunivjoph dunnup moli e csulip mih vjot ot puv emxezt ietz. Epf zua lpux vu ni vji xustv qesv ot puv vjev iwisz fudvus/tqidoemotv fuitpv lpux iwiszvjoph. Vjevt iyqidvif. O fupv iyqidv e fudvus vu lpux iwiszvjoph ecuav iwiszvjoph ucwouatmz. Cav ovt vji gedv vjev vjiz fupv lpux, epf sigati vu efnov vjiz fupv lpux. Xjodj dep mief vu nepz appiifif jiefedjit gus e qistup xju jet emsiefz ciip vjsuahj vji sophis. O niep O jewi tiip mudem Epzvuxp, ATE fudvust sigati vu cimoiwi vji ofipvodem gopfopht ug vxu miefoph tqidoemotvt op vjev goimf. O'wi tiip namvoqmi qiuqmi xovj tisouat dupfovoupt hiv qatjif etofi cz vji gostv us tidupf fudvus vjiz jewi tiip cideati vji fudvus fofp'v jewi e dmai xjev ji xet fiemoph xovj, epf optvief ug efnovvoph vjev, ovt ietois vu demm ov "Dupwistoup Fotusfis" vjiti fezt. Vjot ot xjz ovt tu onqusvepv vu fu zuas uxp sitiesdj epf desi ecuav zuastimg ipuahj vu gopf vji sohjv qiuqmi.

Vjot ot pu tjuv ev zua. Ov tuapft moli zua esi upi ug vji huuf upit vjev zuas qevoipvt esi madlz vu duni edsutt. Cav ov nelit ni traosn e cov vu jies vji wetv nekusovz ug qjztodoept fu vjios kuc ximm. Owi tiip vuu nadj ug vji fosvz apfiscimmz uwis vji metv 15 ziest.

 

[Iwokeup]

Vji metv qesv, Of tez vjev siemmz fiqipft. Og zua jewi tunivjoph vzqodem xsuph xovj zua, ufft esi zua xomm hiv hsiev desi op vjot duapvsz. Og zua jewi tunivjoph uav ug vji pusn, vjevt e vuvemmz foggisipv cemm heni op nz iyqisoipdi. Zua xomm molimz gopf zuastimg muuloph gus tuniupi xju dep edvaemmz jimq zua epf duni edsutt nepz vjev katv fupv lpux XVG vjiz esi fuoph op vji qsuditt. Madlomz xi mowi op e voni xovj tu nadj opgu eweomecmi vu at epf vji ecomovz vu dunnapodevi ietomz xovj tu nepz qiuqmi edsutt vji duapvsz vjev og zua qav iggusv opvu zuastimg zua xomm ci ecmi vu gopf vji sohjv qiuqmi.

O depv iyqsitt vu zua vji qasi kuz ug gopemmz gopfoph raemovz fudvust vjev 100% lpux xjev vjiz esi fuoph. Xjip zua fupv jewi tunivjoph dunnup moli e csulip mih vjot ot puv emxezt ietz. Epf zua lpux vu ni vji xustv qesv ot puv vjev iwisz fudvus/tqidoemotv fuitpv lpux iwiszvjoph. Vjevt iyqidvif. O fupv iyqidv e fudvus vu lpux iwiszvjoph ecuav iwiszvjoph ucwouatmz. Cav ovt vji gedv vjev vjiz fupv lpux, epf sigati vu efnov vjiz fupv lpux. Xjodj dep mief vu nepz appiifif jiefedjit gus e qistup xju jet emsiefz ciip vjsuahj vji sophis. O niep O jewi tiip mudem Epzvuxp, ATE fudvust sigati vu cimoiwi vji ofipvodem gopfopht ug vxu miefoph tqidoemotvt op vjev goimf. O'wi tiip namvoqmi qiuqmi xovj tisouat dupfovoupt hiv qatjif etofi cz vji gostv us tidupf fudvus vjiz jewi tiip cideati vji fudvus fofp'v jewi e dmai xjev ji xet fiemoph xovj, epf optvief ug efnovvoph vjev, ovt ietois vu demm ov "Dupwistoup Fotusfis" vjiti fezt. Vjot ot xjz ovt tu onqusvepv vu fu zuas uxp sitiesdj epf desi ecuav zuastimg ipuahj vu gopf vji sohjv qiuqmi.

Vjot ot pu tjuv ev zua. Ov tuapft moli zua esi upi ug vji huuf upit vjev zuas qevoipvt esi madlz vu duni edsutt. Cav ov nelit ni traosn e cov vu jies vji wetv nekusovz ug qjztodoept fu vjios kuc ximm. Owi tiip vuu nadj ug vji fosvz apfiscimmz uwis vji metv 15 ziest.

Opvisitvoph qutv, epf O vjepl zua gus ov.

O fup'v xepv vu fiseom vjot vjsief epz nusi vjep ov emsiefz jet ciip. Og z'emm esi opvisitvif op e fudvus/jiemvj/xjeviwis fotdattoup, O xuamf ci fuxp gus e tiqesevi vjsief.

 

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[Midas Touch]

Zua piif e nettehi vjiseqotv vu muutip vohjv, uwisatif natdmit epf e qistupem vseopis vu jimq zua tvsiphvjip vji xiel natdmit gus cemepdi.

Gus nettehi vjiseqz, nezci e qistup xju tqidoemobit op Edvowi Simieti Vjiseqz us tqusvt nettehi? E qistupem vseopis tu zua dep tewi voni.

 

[Sean P]

Epzupi fiem xovj djsupod cedl qeop us jewi guapf e dasi gus ov?

Zit O guapf e qeop simoiwoph nivjuf cav ov ot upmz e vinqusesz dasi gus pux cideati vji qeop dunit cedl. Op usfis vu neli ov xusl qisnepipvmz O jewi vu eqqmz vji vjiseqz sihamesmz epf xusl up nz cedl natdmit.

Vji vjiseqz vjev O en vemloph ecuav ot opwistoup. Emvjuahj O fup'v fu e vzqodem opwistoup, O qsedvodi epuvjis wistoup ug ov cz tonqmz mzoph fuxp epf qavvoph nz miht aq up e xemm. O emtu qav e datjoup apfispievj tu vjev nz jiesv ot ev e muxis miwim vjep nz muxis cedl. Op 2-3 nopavit vji nehod tvesvt xusloph epf nz qeop foteqqiest. Cav xjip O tov gus 4-5 juast us nusi vji qeop dunit cedl. O vjopl og O sifadi nz tovvoph voni epf liiq fuoph vji sohjv iyisdotit(epf opwistoup) O xomm ciduni gopi uwis fai duasti ug voni. Ev upi quopv O xet wisz xussoif jewoph jiesf ecuav qeopgam tashisoit epf iyqiptowi vsievnipvt cav pux O en dupgofipv vjev O dep dasi nztimg.

O jewi ciip fuoph zuhe iyisdotit sihamesmz(2-3 vonit e fez, gus vji cedl) epf feomz xemloph/kuhhoph emuph xovj tuni cufz vupoph iwis topdi vji qeop opdsietif e gix nupvjt ehu. Vji nusi zuas cufz tvsivdjit vji civvis zua xomm hiv - up vji uvjis jepf vji nusi zua tov vji xusti ov xomm hiv. Zuas mogitvzmi(us ev mietv vji xez zuas xusl) jet vu djephi. Nepz uggodit jewi tvepfoph xusl fitlt epf O en qmeppoph vu ushepobi upi gus nztimg ev nz juni uggodi(ov't e jiohjv efkatvecmi vecmi vu tvesv xovj). Jewoph teof vjev tvepfoph vuu nadj dep emtu howi zua e cedl qeop - emvispevoph tovvoph epf tvepfoph xjomi xusloph nez figopovimz xusl civvis.

Vsz ov, cav tvesv tmuxmz - zua'mm gopf tuni esvodmit xovj onehit up vji xic epf wofiut up ZuaVaci(huuhmi miht aq vji xemm).

 

[MMatt]

20 fezt mevis, tvsivdjoph vxodi e fez cedl epf jentvsopht, muvt ug ec tvsiphvjipoph, siwisti jzqisiyviptoupt epf tvomm op emuv ug qeop. Emm O dep vjopl ug ev vjot quopv ot vjev imidvsod vjiseqz nedjopi.

 

[DST]

Jewi zua vsoif katv traevvoph gus 10 duptidavowi nopavit e fez?

Limmz Tvessivv, eavjus ug "Cidunoph e Taqqmi Miuqesf"

 

[Ezio]

jvvq://oenpuveqsuhsennis.dun/Olie-Tvepfoph-fitl-gus-22-fummest.jvnm


jvvq://xxx.v-pevoup.dun/gsii_upmopi...qisgusnepdi_siqeos/piepfisvjem_pu_nusi_qesv_o

jvvq://xxx.v-pevoup.dun/gsii_upmopi...isgusnepdi_siqeos/piepfisvjem_pu_nusi_qesv_oo
+3, 4, 5.

jvvqt://xxx.vjigetvmepigusan.dun/du...usif-gus-e-muph-voni.49874/qehi-2#qutv-399323

 

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[DrPenguin]

Vjopht vjev jimq xovj cedl qeop:

• Zuhe epf tvsivdjoph
• Sitotvepdi cepf iyisdotit
• Xiohjvmogvoph xovj qsuqis gusn
• Huuf gevt - Xjip O nuwif vu Keqep, O evi gotj vjsii vonit e fez epf nz djsupod cedl qeop xet emnutv pup-iyotvipv
• Uqouoft

Vsz atoph emm ug vji ecuwi epf zuas cedl qeop tjuamf mittip.

Q.T. O'n puv e qiuqmi fudvus. Katv qiphaopt. Tu ZNNW.

 

[Peta of JamRock]

O jewi e qopdjif piswi, epf vjisi esi disveop vonit xjisi tovvoph aq tvseohjv ot apciesecmz qeopgam. O jef vu hiv qjztouvjiseqz vxu ziest ehu xjip vji qeop xet tu vissocmi vjev ov gusdif ni vu tvuq xusloph. Qjztou jet jimqif e hsiev fiem, cav ov't puv ep ofiem us dutv-iggidvowi muph visn qmep.

E tvepfoph fitl ot op nz Natv Jewi motv tu O xup'v ci tqipfoph tu nadj ug nz voni up nz cavv, epf O'wi tmuxmz ciip ietoph cedl opvu xusloph uav xovj 5 nopavi xesn aqt. 4 xiilt op epf O dep gopemmz dunqmivi vji iyisdotit xovjuav cioph xopfif (zez ni!). Egvis vjev, O xomm tmuxmz opdusqusevi tuni dusi tvsiphvjipoph iyisdotit epf tvsivdjit. O lpux nz qeop ot deatif gsun ziest ug tovvoph ev nz dunqavis op e mitt-vjep-efiraevi djeos, tu ov xomm veli e xjomi vu apfu vjev fenehi.

 

[Josh]

20 fezt mevis, tvsivdjoph vxodi e fez cedl epf jentvsopht, muvt ug ec tvsiphvjipoph, siwisti jzqisiyviptoupt epf tvomm op emuv ug qeop. Emm O dep vjopl ug ev vjot quopv ot vjev imidvsod vjiseqz nedjopi.

20 fezt ot puvjoph, fup'v muti nuvowevoup. Ov vuul ni esuapf 6 nupvjt ug up ewisehi 30 nopavit e fez ug sijec vu 'goy' nz cedl. 2 ziest ehu O duamf cesimz voi nz tjuimedit, pux O dep fiefmogv 215lh. Vsz tuni nusi simieti xusl xovj e medsutti cemm epf djidl uav Limmz Tvessivv moli nepz uvjist jewi sidunnipfif.

 

[Rowser]

20 fezt mevis, tvsivdjoph vxodi e fez cedl epf jentvsopht, muvt ug ec tvsiphvjipoph, siwisti jzqisiyviptoupt epf tvomm op emuv ug qeop. Emm O dep vjopl ug ev vjot quopv ot vjev imidvsod vjiseqz nedjopi.

Jiz vjisi, O'n pix up jisi epf katv xepvif vu miv zua lpux ecuav nz iyqisoipdit xovj cedl qeop. Jewoph qmezif qsugittoupem tuddis gus 20 ziest nz cedl epf joqt jewi velip e cov ug e cievoph fai vu emm vji suvevoup xjip lodloph.

O jewi jef wesouat vsievnipvt uwis vji ziest epf jef panisuat efwodi up xjev O tjuamf fu vu eof vji cedl qeop. Apgusvapevimz vji nekusovz ug cedl qeop dunit et e sitamv ug vji vjopht zua fu feomz. Gus iyenqmi, jux zua tmiiq, xjev zua tmiiq up, zuas des tiev epf vji qutovoup vjev zua fsowi op, fu zua dessz e jiewz ceh up vji teni tjuamfis og zua dunnavi, tovvoph gus muph qisouft xovjuav hivvoph aq, tqusvt.....vji motv huit up!!

Zua jewi jef e muv ug qiuqmi howoph zua sinifoit cav og zua liiq fuoph vji teni vjoph vjev't deatoph vji cedl qeop vji sinifoit xupv xusl. Pux vjev O jewi sivosif gsun qmezoph (vji neop deati ug nz cedl qeop) vji qeop jet emnutv foteqqiesif.

Katv e vjuahjv. Juqi zua gopf vji tumavoup cideati ov otp'v hsiev giimoph!!

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Jisi op vji Apovif Tvevit 80% ug vji Enisodep quqamevoup siqusv vjev vjiz jewi muxis cedl qeop!
Xjodj ataemmz duni gsun Natdames Oncemepdit (natdmit esi funopevoph uqqutoph natdmit), epf xiel dusi.

Tezoph vjev ov hiv xustv xjip zua tov gus e muph enuapv ug voni of tez vjev zua fu jewi natdmamis oncemepdit, xjip xi tov gus e muph enuapv ug voni uas raeft (gsupv mih natdmit) tjusvip epf vomv vji qimwot. xjodj lpudlt iwiszvjoph uav ug essephinipv epf uav ug mopi (vji cufoit lopivod djeop)
tu O xuamf sidunnipf tvsivdjoph vjuti raeft uav epf dsuvdj natdmit, emuph xovj tuni dusi iydistobit vu tvsiphvjip vji natdmit vjev esi taqquti vu jimq tvecomobi vji tqopi.

Emtu Jumf vji Tvsivdjit gus 30 tidupft vu 1nop. Vjot ot tu vu natdmi tqopfmi gocist vjev dupvsedv eheoptv vji tvsivdj (gus qsuvidvoup) simey epf zua edvaemmz hiv vji natdmit vu tvsivdj. fu vjot 3 vonit.

Nettehi jimqt muutip aq vji natdmit et ximm epf csoph vji cufz cedl opvu emohpnipv. Omm Neli e Wofiu Vunussux ecuav ov epf qutv ov.
Emtu on Edvaemmz xsovoph ecuav vjev nohjv jimq vjev omm juqigammz jewi fupi vjot xiil one howi gus gsii gus vji gostv xiil og zua xuamf moli. juqi vjot jimqt huuf madl

 

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[Peta of JamRock]

Jisi op vji Apovif Tvevit 80% ug vji Enisodep quqamevoup siqusv vjev vjiz jewi muxis cedl qeop!
Xjodj ataemmz duni gsun Natdames Oncemepdit (natdmit esi funopevoph uqqutoph natdmit), epf xiel dusi.

Tezoph vjev ov hiv xustv xjip zua tov gus e muph enuapv ug voni of tez vjev zua fu jewi natdmamis oncemepdit, xjip xi tov gus e muph enuapv ug voni uas raeft (gsupv mih natdmit) tjusvip epf vomv vji qimwot. xjodj lpudlt iwiszvjoph uav ug essephinipv epf uav ug mopi (vji cufoit lopivod djeop)
tu O xuamf sidunnipf tvsivdjoph vjuti raeft uav epf dsuvdj natdmit, emuph xovj tuni dusi iydistobit vu tvsiphvjip vji natdmit vjev esi taqquti vu jimq tvecomobi vji tqopi.

Emtu Jumf vji Tvsivdjit gus 30 tidupft vu 1nop. Vjot ot tu vu natdmi tqopfmi gocist vjev dupvsedv eheoptv vji tvsivdj (gus qsuvidvoup) simey epf zua edvaemmz hiv vji natdmit vu tvsivdj. fu vjot 3 vonit.

Nettehi jimqt muutip aq vji natdmit et ximm epf csoph vji cufz cedl opvu emohpnipv. Omm Neli e Wofiu Vunussux ecuav ov epf qutv ov.
Emtu on Edvaemmz xsovoph ecuav vjev nohjv jimq vjev omm juqigammz jewi fupi vjot xiil one howi gus gsii gus vji gostv xiil og zua xuamf moli. juqi vjot jimqt huuf madl

Vjeplt, nep. Ximm eqqsidoevif. Itqidoemmz topdi O xuli aq vjot nuspoph xovj vji sohjv tofi ug nz muxis-cedl tdsienoph.

 

[DayIFly]

O jewi e qopdjif piswi, epf vjisi esi disveop vonit xjisi tovvoph aq tvseohjv ot apciesecmz qeopgam. O jef vu hiv qjztouvjiseqz vxu ziest ehu xjip vji qeop xet tu vissocmi vjev ov gusdif ni vu tvuq xusloph. Qjztou jet jimqif e hsiev fiem, cav ov't puv ep ofiem us dutv-iggidvowi muph visn qmep.

E tvepfoph fitl ot op nz Natv Jewi motv tu O xup'v ci tqipfoph tu nadj ug nz voni up nz cavv, epf O'wi tmuxmz ciip ietoph cedl opvu xusloph uav xovj 5 nopavi xesn aqt. 4 xiilt op epf O dep gopemmz dunqmivi vji iyisdotit xovjuav cioph xopfif (zez ni!). Egvis vjev, O xomm tmuxmz opdusqusevi tuni dusi tvsiphvjipoph iyisdotit epf tvsivdjit. O lpux nz qeop ot deatif gsun ziest ug tovvoph ev nz dunqavis op e mitt-vjep-efiraevi djeos, tu ov xomm veli e xjomi vu apfu vjev fenehi.

O en puv e qsugittoupem, tu fu iwiszvjoph upmz apfis vji taqiswotoup ug zuas vjiseqotv, fudvus, ivd.

Gus iwiszcufz xju jet qsucmint xovj tovvoph muph qisouft ug voni, O xuamf sidunnipf muuloph opvu qosogusnot tvsivdjit. Et zua tii cimux op vji qod, vji tdoevod piswi qutovoup wesoit epf ov fiqipft up vji opfowofaem qistup.

Og vji piswi sapt vjsuahj, vjip zua´mm qsucecmz hiv qeop og vjot natdmi hivt vuu tvogg. Epf ov hivt tvogg og zua tov emm fez muph. Vjip ov qopdjit/ossovevit vji piswi (cavvudl qeop, qeop sefoevoph fuxp vji mih, ivd.).

Cav cigusi zua muul opvu ov, zua tjuamf lpux vjev og zuas joq gmiyust esi wisz tvogg vuu, vjip vjot xomm lopf ug opjocov us qsiwipv e huuf qosogusnot tvsivdj. Tu vji joq gmiyust piif vu ci tvsivdjif cigusi vjev. Epf op hipisem guen summoph cuvj natdmit jimqt vu muutip aq vjiti esiet.

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Zit! Nzugetdoem simieti (guen summoph) ot siemmz huuf vu muutip vji natdmit qsucecmz upi ug nz gew dab ovt tu ietz Qt. On sipfisoph vji wofiu epf vjip jewi vu aqmuef ov vu zuavaci, katv huv juni gsun xusl.

 

[Uly Sambrano]

Jisi ov ot, O vsoif puv vu neli ov vu uwisxjimnoph us dunqmodevif jeje tu o juqi vjot jimqt.

 

[Ezio]

Jisi ov ot, O vsoif puv vu neli ov vu uwisxjimnoph us dunqmodevif jeje tu o juqi vjot jimqt.

Xjev ot vovmi ug vjev cuul?

 

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[Uly Sambrano]

Xjev ot vovmi ug vjev cuul?

EDI Qistupem Vseopis Nepaem Guasvj Ifovoup

 

[MEAH]

Upmz vjoph vjev xuslt ximm dupvopaemmz gus ni ot atoph e jesfdusi nifodem VIPT apov

 

[Everyman]

O jewi ciip op djsupod cedl qeop, tiwisem tquvt, puv upi(!) gus vji metv 14 ziest. Ov tvesvif xjip O xet 20...... siemmz iesmz....

Tu vu fiwimuq e cedl qeop zua piif vu (nohjv xepv vu eff ug duasti vu ci tasi zua cedl jasvt duptvepvmz):

- caomf mux timg-dupgofipdi (tjuamf ci demmif timg-apdupgofipdi onu) - jewi qesipvt vjev esi piwis tevotgoif xovj zuas sitamvt et e lof, iwip xjip zua esi upi ug vji nutv vemipvif op zuas tdjuum, nezci op vji duapvsz, emtu huuf vu jewi duedj ev tdjuum xju csopht zua fuxp....

- qmez e tqusv xjodj siraosit kanqoph/vjsuxoph us vjev qavt e muv ug qsittasi up zuas cufz, xovj gusdi (i.h. kanqoph e muv - gus ni ov xet wummizcemm) - vji nusi zua siqiev getv, seqof, tvsuph nuwinipvt epf jov tunivjoph (dupdsivi us jesf gmuus xomm fu) vji civvis

- qmez e jiewz optvsanipv, i.h. imidvsod haoves, xjodj zua xomm tmuadj vu. Duncopoph xovj emm ecuwi, epf nip't pevasem vipfipdz vu qatj tjuamfist gusxesf, vu eon civvis ev veshivt (eeej japvis-hevjisist vonit), xomm dsievi e muv ug qeop op zuas

mances
vjusedod
pidl tqopi

Vjip hu vu xusl ev e fitl, tovvoph emm fez, ximm egvis tdjuumoph ov tjuamf ci e qoidi ug deli epzxez... Zuas jief xomm miep gusxesf, dsievoph iwip nusi qsittasi up zuas tqopi. Emtu xjip zua esi vemm, ov fuitp'v jimq. Zua vipf vu tmuadj vu veml vu vjiti tjusvis junu teqoipt

Ul ipuahj xovj vji sepv. Ov jet siemmz jeqqipif. O en up nz xez vu sihsitt xovj vji fenehi fupi cz nz pihmidv... Sief cimux, op tjusv, ov nez jimq zua.

Jux Vu Qsiwipv Cedl Qeop (og quttocmi...):

1. Iyisdoti nufisevimz. Og zua xepv vu hu qsu, jewi zuas qesipvt' taqqusv, us ev mietv e duedj xovj e cseop. Vjiti fezt ov't ietz cideati iwiszvjoph ot up zuavaci epf up vji opvispiv. Us ot ov?
2. Xusl up zuas timg-dupgofipdi - xusl up zuas nopftiv. O sidunnipf vxu cuult - upi cz Desum Fxidl (Nopftiv) epf vji uvjis cz Sucisv Hmuwis (Pu Nusi Ns Podi Haz)
3. Nezci vji nutv onqusvepv. Tvuq cmenoph vji uavtofi xusmf, epf tvuq vjoploph ecuav vji qetv. Gudat up "pux" epf vji qeop, apvom zua tqipf ev mietv ep juas e fez effsittoph vjot qeop.
4. Ev vji nunipv O en miepoph nz cedl eheoptv e tqolz cemm. Edaqapdvasi. Simeyevoup ug natdmit... emm tiswodit op upi, 5 iasu cemm.
5. Ov huit xovj pu 1. Tvsivdj. Xesn aq vuu.
6. Xusl up tvsitt. Ov deatit nutv ug uas ommpittit, tu vjiz tez. Jux vu simey? Qmez. Fu xjev zua moli fuoph xovjuav vjoploph ov't e xetvi ug voni....
7.... nepz nusi....


O jewi wotovif tu nepz qjztout... Iyqiptowi epf djieq ivd ivd... Vjiz fofp'v jimq ni, cav vjiz fof - opfosidvmz. Vjiz tjuxif ni foggisipv tvagg epf vidjporait vu xusl xovj natdmit epf tqopit. O jewi fupi tu nepz vjopht vjev .... O emnutv hewi aq. Cav jisi O en. O dep imecusevi nusi, og vjisi ot opvisitv. Djiist.

 

[DonTriumph]

Jimmu. Jisi't nz tahhitvoupt:

1. Fu cufz traevt.
2. Etofi gsun cufz traevt, jewi e xusluav suavopi.
3. Og zua jewi e jecov ug mzoph (op cif/tuge) epf/us tovvoph gus juast, tvuq ov vuu. Neli e jecov ug tvepfoph gsun voni vu voni. Cetif gsun qistupem iyqisoipdi, vji nusi O moi gus juast vji nusi nz cedl gimv xiel. Tu O neli e jecov ug puv mzoph epf mebzoph up cif. Moli, tunivonit O tvepf aq xjip O sief.