Can i copy an idea that will be on Kickstarter but not yet on the market ?

[LPPC]

A thread very related to your question can be found here.

There you can also see the opinion of many members of this forum on this matter and some awesome advice.

 

[ZF Lee]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't share ideas with anyone.

While I try to share what I think would be valuable with others, I'm F*cking tired of seeing people snitch on you and cheat you.
Especially the Chinese folks....horrible.

I don't understand why the Chinese are still preferred for their low cost manufacturing. I heard lots of bad reports on their shitty intellectual property protection and copyright infringements....something which might not be that serious for you people in the US. I suppose there's always a catch in everything lol.

The other day I just heard of a Chinese partner-to-be walk out of the roundtable discussions after presentations and everything even though the others had put in so much work to make the deal go right.
He must have been only there to spy lol.

And apparently where I come from, there was a scary case on a truck delivering products stopped by hired goons of a competitor pretending to be law enforcement agents. The goons ordered the staff to get out of the vehicle and then drove off with the goods like terrorists taking people hostage.

I'm feeling very, very heated with the bullshit Chinese copycats (mind you, copycats are everywhere, not just in Asia, but the Chinese are more infamous)....I'm wondering how much I can give for some potential meetups I am going to go for. Clearly not everyone has care for ethics and integrity as we do here in TFLF

That being said, the only time I would have a kickstarter would be when I already have sales and decent legal protection ready to steamroll those copycats lol. Thankfully things are still small to not need such a route yet.

 

[ALC]

I've noticed that there are a lot of similar or same product campaigns on Kickstarter and it is bad for all the companies who did it. I think it isn't reasonable to copy something if you exactly don't know the next steps of the person/company who is engaging in this product. Maybe as you've mentioned he is prepared to launch his product somewhere so you will look weird, copying it. Also why no one noticed about the patent? It could also be a risk for you if it is already a proprietary product.

I stopped everything because there is a patent and i can't see any other way to make the product different (still trying).
But this topic helped me because it shows that it can be done if you want it, but it depend on you if you should do it or not (ethic).

 

[ALC]

I think a patent is very useful, practical but must be removed quicker if the depositor don't act on his idea.
Like for myself i've paid two patents, one for a project for a Coffee Shop (really not sure about this idea and still trying to find something else but god it's hard to change industry) or for a clothing brand that i am working on.

 

[SYK]

The problem with patents is that people take advantage of what should be a fair system

The other problem is you have to have the money to defend a patent. Without it, it becomes hard to defend it meaningfully.

Good thing is, if you're not cashed up, you can take out IP insurance that gives you a war chest to defend your patent if anyone infringes.

 

[B. Cole]

I know this is a mute point now, but if you felt strongly enough about someone else’s idea that you were willing to steal it, perhaps you could have offered to be part of getting the thing on the market instead. He could have been out of money, time or both, and possibly interested if you’re the right enthusiastic person. Sounds a little fairy tail and rainbows, but he might have appreciated the help, and you both end up winning. Remember, provide value. We all build on those before us, but damn being a straight up thief.

 

[ALC]

I know this is a mute point now, but if you felt strongly enough about someone else’s idea that you were willing to steal it, perhaps you could have offered to be part of getting the thing on the market instead. He could have been out of money, time or both, and possibly interested if you’re the right enthusiastic person. Sounds a little fairy tail and rainbows, but he might have appreciated the help, and you both end up winning. Remember, provide value. We all build on those before us, but damn being a straight up thief.

The threat was created before i saw that a copycat "war" was already out there.
I've linked the products just before.

The product is not on the french market yet, but there patents everywhere and to this day i don't see how i can switch anything to be accepted.
The original product has been created by a multi millionaire, he's a fitness coach and creator of a big E-Cig brand, he sold this company for hundreds of millions, he already knew the potential of such an idea, he secured every goddamn part of the creation and anything related to it.

I'm not saying that i've dropped the project, it's just not possible for the moment, i can't find how i can produce something different.

For me ethic is something i value too, but the patent's owner is american, i'm French..so by the time he will think about us here in Europe, 5 years would have passed.

 

[ALC]

Hi everyone,

As the title is telling, i saw a guy developping a new product for the fitness industry, that no one as thought about before, but that product is not yet on kickstarter or any website, he just has done promotionnal videos of it.

What i'm asking you is, as the product is not out there yet, do i risk anything by copying it and put it on the market if he don't ?

I was also and mostly thinking about the fact that he could have protect the idea...any thought about this ?

Btw, i'm talking about taking actions while he seems to not take any.

Thanks for taking the time,
Alessio.

 

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[ALC]

If you will have first movers advantage go for it.

If you won't, let the other company take all the arrows in the back and then improve upon what they did wrong and copy what worked

The Half-Truth of First-Mover Advantage

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Yes, but if i do that, if they've secured the idea, they won't allow me to upgrade it and they will sue me for trying to...?
Actually it's kind of simple to upgrade the tool in itself...so even if they take all the arrows in the back as you said, they would correct their mistakes in no time..OR maybe i wait for this moment and rise from nowhere with a better product and better marketing when they will have difficulties with their reviews

 

[ALC]

Like @JAJT said, it's your reputation on the line. There's always the ethical question to grapple with.

But we also preach here that it's the execution not the idea.

Here's what I would do. Wait the 26 days to see if it goes on Kickstarter. Watch the KS and see if he validates demand.

If he never gets to KS, he probably will never act on it. At that point, Id explore the idea, but by making it my own,not a direct copy. Also, search for patents too.

I'll do that, great advice Scot.

But even if they don't go to the final product and don't raise the money, i do think that the guy have protected his idea and by that fact i won't be able to sell anything because it's his idea..
TBH, even if i'm 100% with ethic and would be angry because someone stole my idea..if that someone don't take action or can't get the money, i'll go for it.
(Any person who do fitness/workout would use his product, even from home.)

 

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[ALC]

Is this an existing product in the market or this entrepreneur's new idea?
If it's their new idea - just leave it alone and move on man.

It's beyond douchey to try and be a first mover on an idea that you stole from someone else.
There's no "grey area" about it - it's deplorable.

Also - are you trolling kickstarter for ideas to be a first mover on, or did you just happen to stumble upon this one thing by happenstance?
If you are trolling for ideas to steal - stop that.
It's a shitty thing to do.

However, regardless of the above, the outcome still won't be as "above board" as coming up with your own damn thoughts and ideas though.

Even if you saw this by chance, and it's an existing product from another market, your entrepreneur story is STILL going to be "I saw this other person about to launch a really cool idea and thought to myself 'I could totally F*ck them' and then I totally F*cked them".

I was only searching on IG for inspiration in the fitness industry as it's a massive market, i don't use my time to stole other people ideas.
TBH i just had the idea by searching things on IG Fitness account, then i thought that it was a cool idea and saw that someone was starting the project on google/fcb but don't do massive actions about it...

I would prefer to come up with my own idea for sure.

 

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[ALC]

I am guessing you meant this one...

Hammerhead Fit Press

Nope, but he could propably make something of it, even if we're already doing this with a dumbbell...

 

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[ALC]

You are copying someone else's exam answers and you don't even know if they studied.

Now you have to wonder what they based their product on and if it is even a sound idea.

You don't know anything about their process and what lead them to think that particular idea was a good idea. Maybe they spent years on it or maybe they just came up with it a week ago. So you are betting your time and money on someone else having done the work. And ethically it is a douche move too.

Much better to do the process yourself so you actually know WHY instead of HOW.
If you rip an idea and it sells without any work done expect people to steal it from you also.

They based their product on a problem we all have at the gym, something we complain about every time.
It's made of wood and plastic so it's not a piece of engineering; just a gym tool.

But i agree on the douche move.

 

[ALC]

PS: What do you think this thread is doing for you in the forum? And those arguing for it?

You mean reputation ?
If that guy don't take action on his idea (if ever he don't), why would i don't take them myself these actions and create that product if it help people or even for me ?
And by don't taking actions i mean if this guy don't create a KS page and say that he drop the project on his Facebook page ?
I'm for ethic, but if he drop his project, why not doing it ?

 

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[ALC]

I'd caution against this.

In too many cases the only difference between "inspiration" and "stealing" is whether you're talking to the person who was "inspired" or the person who was "stolen" from.

Inspiration should come from your experiences and where you think you can add value. From those days when you say "I wish someone would just... oh wait, I can do that". Or looking at a market you know nothing about and seeing something that solves a problem in a market you do know a lot about. It's combining new ideas with your personal experience and having a eureka moment.

Inspiration doesn't come from looking at what everyone else is doing in the field you want to get into. Looking at other people's ideas is just a really, really good way to get very excited about ideas that aren't your own that you know you shouldn't copy. It just makes you think "I wish I thought of that" a million times until you are frustrated and convinced no new ideas exist.

Got it, thanks.
I do think these eureka moments could also appears while browsing the web/IG feed...but mostly by being in the field.
Btw, i'm just a 20yo young men trying to create something, if that guy don't pursue his project, i will try to because at least it would help me at the gym.

 

[ALC]

Ok nevermind, I just saw that the person who wants to create this project actually copies a person who has already started and created the product.

FYI :
Original creator (inventor of the AB Wheel) : Stealth Trainer - The Ultimate Planking Device
Kind of copycat : Plankpad - Strong Core, 6-Pack Abs & No Back Pain while Playing a Game

It just makes you think "I wish I thought of that" a million times until you are frustrated and convinced no new ideas exist.

 

[ALC]

Okay OP, I've got an idea for you to riff on this product if you really want to without straight out copying it.

Smaller market, but passionate people and affluent generally speaking.

Swimmers.

I was actually trying to dream up a device like this recently that would help me focus on my core, on dryland, to get my freaking legs up.

You see, I'm a runner historically. My legs are dense. So when I swim they sink like stones which slows me down. I've been swimming for almost 8 years now and still have drag issues so clearly just swimming isn't helping. If you can put together a product that's swim specific dryland work to help me improve my body position I'd buy it. If you could also make it couple up with a dryland swim workout style machine like the vasa trainer at a more competitive price, I'd be interested in that too.

Your sales copy can include case studies about how swimmers/triathletes used it over X months and improved their average 100m swim time by Y.

Is it one of your need of everyone need ? Is there already some product which can help you for this or maybe they're too expensive ?

These VASA Trainer are expensive to build and need a specific technology, but it look like it's got a kind of Rowing Machine system/cabling (like the one we got in the Rowing machine), i do think the price is right for these machine, like the Panatta's in the gym, it's expensive but it's quality.
Have you tried to see at a deposit sales if they got one ? I'll try to.

 

[ALC]

Can you improve it in any way? Then it would be the same as improving an existing product. And you could possibly still beat him to market.

I need to think about a different support and the underside, something less cheap.
And yes, probably.

 

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[ALC]

These guys will only make it in English and not in french, if i create one and make a presentation in french i could provide value for the french fitness market.
But finally, anyone can copy it if they want to and find the right thing to modify.

 

[biophase]

Were you going to make an app too?

The plank pad has been done, but I bet that app uses an iPhone gyrometer to make you tilt and move it. We do that with a bosu ball right now.

I doubt you were going to do that part.

 

[ALC]

Were you going to make an app too?

The plank pad has been done, but I bet that app uses an iPhone gyrometer to make you tilt and move it. We do that with a bosu ball right now.

I doubt you were going to do that part.

Yes this is the principle, like every game available on the appstore, i would just recommend using this or this apps to use for exercise.
I'm not like Howard Panes and his Stealth apps.

 

[ALC]

Its not really legal, in the sense that if the inventor patents the invention within a year from it being shown by himself on the market, he can come after that kid for all that kid made...especially if he can prove he invented it before the kid under cut him. That's a little simple, but that's the gist of it.

The Chinese get away with it because they don't play by our patent rules. There's no way to enforce your monopoly as the rights holder.

That's what i'm afraid of, because if he has put a patents in the USA, that patent is also available for Europe.
The only way to switch that in my favor is to change the underside rotation system, if i change that it would work.

 

[Laughingman21]

Hi everyone,

As the title is telling, i saw a guy developping a new product for the fitness industry, that no one as thought about before, but that product is not yet on kickstarter or any website, he just has done promotionnal videos of it.

What i'm asking you is, as the product is not out there yet, do i risk anything by copying it and put it on the market if he don't ?

I was also and mostly thinking about the fact that he could have protect the idea...any thought about this ?

Btw, i'm talking about taking actions while he seems to not take any.

Thanks for taking the time,
Alessio.

Ethically, I think what you’re suggesting is wrong and the fact you have to ask the question suggests you already know this.

But ignoring the ethics of your question and looking at the real world, I think a big risk you’re taking on that you may not recover from is damage to your reputation. In a world where social media is king and social proof sells, you’re very likely to get the reputation of being the guy that stole the idea. As starting up a company is tough at the best of times, starting with this noose around your neck seems like an unnecessary burden.

Then once you are selling, you’ve also got to ask yourself what type of customer is going to be choosing your brand over the original? Probably those with lower ethics which means you could end up with more returns, claims for damaged/ undelivered goods, etc. Basically, all the customers most people would try to avoid.

 

[ALC]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't share ideas with anyone.

Don't ever share your ideas/project, and i was asking this also to copy his products and make it better, but then as i said, i saw that this product was already a copy from the original one, made by Howard Panes.
It was only to market something better.

 

[trace987]

I've noticed that there are a lot of similar or same product campaigns on Kickstarter and it is bad for all the companies who did it. I think it isn't reasonable to copy something if you exactly don't know the next steps of the person/company who is engaging in this product. Maybe as you've mentioned he is prepared to launch his product somewhere so you will look weird, copying it. Also why no one noticed about the patent? It could also be a risk for you if it is already a proprietary product.

 

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[David Young]

Have you though about offering your services to the inventor? They might well need something to help with the marketing/ business / distribution etc.

 

[ALC]

Have you though about offering your services to the inventor? They might well need something to help with the marketing/ business / distribution etc.

Well, Howard Panes, the inventor, sold his e-cigarette company for 1.X.X Millions years ago and is the inventor (with his friend) of the ABS ROLLER/WHEEL, so he's really rich. For the marketing, he has already contacted a media company and everything is good for him, he got the money to pay a team to do the marketing.

And even if i ask him if i can market his product here, the commission i would take VS the profit he make...it's not worth it. (even if it add value to the french fitness world).
I would have prefered to be the creator!

 

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[sparechange]

Not educated in patents but do they even do much? Afaik mark Cuban a billionaire many times over was dealing with the hover board patent problem I think, saw some article he was owed money or whatever

 

[sparechange]

I think a patent is very useful, practical but must be removed quicker if the depositor don't act on his idea.
Like for myself i've paid two patents, one for a project for a Coffee Shop (really not sure about this idea and still trying to find something else but god it's hard to change industry) or for a clothing brand that i am working on.

Not sure how u go from cofee to clothing but stick with a single idea.

 

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[ALC]

Not sure how u go from cofee to clothing but stick with a single idea.

The Coffee Shop side is a skill i already master and the clothing side is an idea i had that i always wanted to develop, i don't want to live with regrets so i'm doing this. And i'm not gonna stick with a single idea if both can be done (even if everyone is telling the opposite).

But keep in mind that i'm also on the forum to learn where people have been fortunate to create something fastlane, the coffee shop is a thing i told myself that i could do, but the rentability is weak, the scalability is weak (a lot of competitors very talented) and the entry is very low.

I've only started the clothing business because it's way cheaper to start, but i'm still looking for an other industry where i can do something with a higher entry. (didn't find it yet)