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Can i copy an idea that will be on Kickstarter but not yet on the market ?

JAJT

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Is this an existing product in the market or this entrepreneur's new idea?
If it's their new idea - just leave it alone and move on man.

It's beyond douchey to try and be a first mover on an idea that you stole from someone else.
There's no "grey area" about it - it's deplorable.

Also - are you trolling kickstarter for ideas to be a first mover on, or did you just happen to stumble upon this one thing by happenstance?
If you are trolling for ideas to steal - stop that.
It's a shitty thing to do.

However, regardless of the above, the outcome still won't be as "above board" as coming up with your own damn thoughts and ideas though.

Even if you saw this by chance, and it's an existing product from another market, your entrepreneur story is STILL going to be "I saw this other person about to launch a really cool idea and thought to myself 'I could totally F*ck them' and then I totally F*cked them".
 

Fox

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I would prefer to come up with my own idea for sure.

You are copying someone else's exam answers and you don't even know if they studied.

Now you have to wonder what they based their product on and if it is even a sound idea.

You don't know anything about their process and what lead them to think that particular idea was a good idea. Maybe they spent years on it or maybe they just came up with it a week ago. So you are betting your time and money on someone else having done the work. And ethically it is a douche move too.

Much better to do the process yourself so you actually know WHY instead of HOW.
If you rip an idea and it sells without any work done expect people to steal it from you also.
 

Scot

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Like @JAJT said, it's your reputation on the line. There's always the ethical question to grapple with.

But we also preach here that it's the execution not the idea.

Here's what I would do. Wait the 26 days to see if it goes on Kickstarter. Watch the KS and see if he validates demand.

If he never gets to KS, he probably will never act on it. At that point, Id explore the idea, but by making it my own,not a direct copy. Also, search for patents too.
 
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Andy Black

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You'd be surprised and how much ethics you can deposit into a bank account!! :smile2:
^^^ This.

Ever heard the phrases/sayings:

"People buy from people."

"How you do anything is how you do everything."

"Money is proof you helped your fellow man."

"Give and you shall receive."


Don't steal someone's idea and be first to market on it. If you don't see what's wrong with that then you're maybe too far down the slippery slope already.

Engage your market and find out what they need, and what you can help them with.

Find out how to reach them. How to sell to them. How to turn them into raving fans so you get repeat business and referrals.

There's so much more to do than having a great idea, so why not start from the right place?


PS: What do you think this thread is doing for you in the forum? And those arguing for it?
 

Andy Black

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So many people to help out there and so little time.

Why pick someone else's idea?
 

Andy Black

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@Vigilante has a great story of starting a business venture without doing the proper research. One of his only pleasures was seeing all the copycats crash and burn as he had.
 
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AgainstAllOdds

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Chinese are already doing this:

Your brilliant Kickstarter idea could be on sale in China before you’ve even finished funding it

This 24-year-old made $345,000 in 2 months by beating Kickstarters to market

China is Now Stealing Ideas Off Kickstarter and Launching Them Faster and Cheaper

Personally I wouldn't do this because if you can compete, then anyone can compete, and you essentially have a low entry high competition business. Ethically, I don't see much difference between this and people that take someone else's Amazon product and improve it.

Is it legal? Yeah. Is it ethical? That's a question for you to answer.
 
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JAJT

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I was only searching on IG for inspiration

I'd caution against this.

In too many cases the only difference between "inspiration" and "stealing" is whether you're talking to the person who was "inspired" or the person who was "stolen" from.

Inspiration should come from your experiences and where you think you can add value. From those days when you say "I wish someone would just... oh wait, I can do that". Or looking at a market you know nothing about and seeing something that solves a problem in a market you do know a lot about. It's combining new ideas with your personal experience and having a eureka moment.

Inspiration doesn't come from looking at what everyone else is doing in the field you want to get into. Looking at other people's ideas is just a really, really good way to get very excited about ideas that aren't your own that you know you shouldn't copy. It just makes you think "I wish I thought of that" a million times until you are frustrated and convinced no new ideas exist.
 

Iammelissamoore

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I was only searching on IG for inspiration in the fitness industry as it's a massive market, i don't use my time to stole other people ideas.
TBH i just had the idea by searching things on IG Fitness account, then i thought that it was a cool idea and saw that someone was starting the project on google/fcb but don't do massive actions about it...

I would prefer to come up with my own idea for sure.
A lot of times when a business isn't "seemingly" doing much about a business - within the public space of social media - doesn't necessarily mean they aren't doing anything. As you would obviously recognise by now, business isn't only showing a completed product/service on social media; there is a lot of background work which goes into creating the ideal product/service to attend to the needs of a market, lots of testing, trial and error, improvements etc.

Now, given that this person's product is an empty copy of a copy of a copy of a copy screams loudly enough why you shouldn't be willing to just jump at being another copy. If indeed the original product/service is something you have used personally and believe there are improvements to be made to it then go ahead and make it better.

We live in a world of abundance and we all know that for every brilliant idea, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people thinking about that same brilliant idea, the issue is that a whole lot of people aren't willing to execute it. For every product/service that has been perfected (whether it is an original idea, or an existing invention that is reintroduced to the market with better qualities) success follows, because it is created with genuine intentions of making people's life better. There are legal practises businesses can take to protect themselves where necessary and as businesspeople, we respect the fact that when we place something out there, there is always the ability of it being perfected by our companies or others, of course it is better when we are the ones continuously perfecting it due to the constant feedback from our marketplace of which we must always be in tune with - Act, Assess, Adjust.
 
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AgainstAllOdds

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Not educated in patents but do they even do much? Afaik mark Cuban a billionaire many times over was dealing with the hover board patent problem I think, saw some article he was owed money or whatever

Yea.

Patents and copyrights are the reason business models like licensing exist. It's why the entire pharma industry as well as countless others exist. It's why a lot of innovation rightfully gets pushed forward. It's why Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank only invests in businesses with a patent.

The problem with patents is that people take advantage of what should be a fair system. They patent things that should not be patentable, with no intention of ever licensing or using the patent, and then sue everyone that has something similar. That's what Mark Cuban is against, and why his solution is to get rid of patents altogether.

But yeah, they do do that much, and often times do too much (when a patent that should never have been given is enforced).
 
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funkj25

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Ok nevermind, I just saw that the person who wants to create this project actually copies a person who has already started and created the product.

FYI :
Original creator (inventor of the AB Wheel) : Stealth Trainer - The Ultimate Planking Device
Kind of copycat : Plankpad - Strong Core, 6-Pack Abs & No Back Pain while Playing a Game

Okay OP, I've got an idea for you to riff on this product if you really want to without straight out copying it.

Smaller market, but passionate people and affluent generally speaking.

Swimmers.

I was actually trying to dream up a device like this recently that would help me focus on my core, on dryland, to get my freaking legs up.

You see, I'm a runner historically. My legs are dense. So when I swim they sink like stones which slows me down. I've been swimming for almost 8 years now and still have drag issues so clearly just swimming isn't helping. If you can put together a product that's swim specific dryland work to help me improve my body position I'd buy it. If you could also make it couple up with a dryland swim workout style machine like the vasa trainer at a more competitive price, I'd be interested in that too.

Your sales copy can include case studies about how swimmers/triathletes used it over X months and improved their average 100m swim time by Y.
 
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ThirtyOne

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Not true at all.

RkXb8kY.png


We have a first to file system. First to file and first to invent - Wikipedia

Who invented the product is completely irrelevant in your scenario. Who was first to file for patent is what's relevant to determining legality.

Actually, it's partly true. For most practical purposes though, you hit it on the head with the "first to file" principle.

I had recently read an example of "Experimental Exception" where basically the first to invent rule still applies under the current system. In a nutshell, that means that if you were to invent something that needed to be tested (for example, a new sun-damage proof car paint); there's no practical way for you to NOT disclose it publicly, since your car will have to sit out in the sun in public view. Done in good faith, the following rule applies from patent attorneys David Pressman's and Thomas Tuytschaevers', Patent it Yourself:

"If an inventor (or someone who obtained details of the invention from the inventor) uses or disclose the invention publicly, then the inventor has up to one year to file a valid patent application on the invention."

Where I was clearly wrong was in saying, take it "to market" versus "disclosing publicly". Your rule is much better to follow.

As they say, "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

So I appreciate your correction to my error.

That's why you shouldn't launch a proprietary kickstarter without a provisional patent. And if you have a product that doesn't need a patent, then you have to weigh the benefit of Kickstarter vs the influx of added competition.

True. PPA will give you time to test the Kickstarter market. And it's pretty cost effective.
 
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Envision

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Anyone who has been in a gym even a couple of times should realize that this is not new. Sure he added an app for the lazy fat people that need a distraction to exercise... but this has been around forever. Theres nothing wrong with taking an idea and improving it. That's what everyone here is doing, they are looking at what interests them and making it better. Thats it.

The way you worded your question sounded wrong unless im misunderstanding you, but anything great that someone has done was built on the ideas of those before them.
 

LeoistheSun

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Not all kickstarter campaigns are successful.

You think it's a great idea (and maybe it is), but if it fails, do you think it's lack of traffic or lack of an idea that the market wants?

I made the mistake once (probably many times) of creating something that I thought people wanted. Maybe they did. But there was no way to know who (age, sex, interests, etc.) or the buying motivators for purchasing it.

It makes things much more difficult. It's easy to come up with an idea, but hard to sell.
 

BrooklynHustle

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Hi everyone,

As the title is telling, i saw a guy developping a new product for the fitness industry, that no one as thought about before, but that product is not yet on kickstarter or any website, he just has done promotionnal videos of it.

What i'm asking you is, as the product is not out there yet, do i risk anything by copying it and put it on the market if he don't ?

I was also and mostly thinking about the fact that he could have protect the idea...any thought about this ?

Btw, i'm talking about taking actions while he seems to not take any.

Thanks for taking the time,
Alessio.
You can if you want to. Once read about someone who made a business model of doing this.

This isn't the one I was thinking of, but apparently there is lots of copying coming out of Shenzhen as well:

Your brilliant Kickstarter idea could be on sale in China before you’ve even finished funding it

These guys did something similar on a much larger scale by allowing others to validate the business model and relying on their ability to execute:

Germany's Samwer Brothers To Become Billionaires With Rocket Internet IPO
 
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AgainstAllOdds

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Its not really legal, in the sense that if the inventor patents the invention within a year from it being shown by himself on the market, he can come after that kid for all that kid made...especially if he can prove he invented it before the kid under cut him. That's a little simple, but that's the gist of it.

The Chinese get away with it because they don't play by our patent rules. There's no way to enforce your monopoly as the rights holder.

Not true at all.

RkXb8kY.png


We have a first to file system. First to file and first to invent - Wikipedia

Who invented the product is completely irrelevant in your scenario. Who was first to file for patent is what's relevant to determining legality.

That's why you shouldn't launch a proprietary kickstarter without a provisional patent. And if you have a product that doesn't need a patent, then you have to weigh the benefit of Kickstarter vs the influx of added competition.

Completely legal. Scummy too. But legal.
 
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Laughingman21

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The threat was created before i saw that a copycat "war" was already out there.
I've linked the products just before.

The product is not on the french market yet, but there patents everywhere and to this day i don't see how i can switch anything to be accepted.
The original product has been created by a multi millionaire, he's a fitness coach and creator of a big E-Cig brand, he sold this company for hundreds of millions, he already knew the potential of such an idea, he secured every goddamn part of the creation and anything related to it.

I'm not saying that i've dropped the project, it's just not possible for the moment, i can't find how i can produce something different.

For me ethic is something i value too, but the patent's owner is american, i'm French..so by the time he will think about us here in Europe, 5 years would have passed.

Sounds like he's an experienced businessman who knew what to do to stop someone stealing his idea. Seems like a sensible thing to do to me as this thread proves there are unscrupulous people out there willing to steal ideas and try to profit from them.
 

ALC

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Could you? Maybe.

Should you? Well, that's another question entirely.
It's a risk, but damn it's so simple to build and will do so much sales..i'm searching for an alternative of what he made and copy the principle on an other equipment.

Your reputation.
The guy has created an IG/Facebook account but don't seems to be making that much ads..or maybe he is waiting to launch the kickstarter campaign..in 26 days as his website shows..
 
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minivanman

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In this case he could have ethics, don't try it and make a for sure $0. So like I said, the bank won't take your ethics and deposit them for you. Or, screw the ethics and give it a shot.... If it was a thought on my mind I'm going for it. Odds are, 1 of them will never make it anyway... or both. People 'steal' stuff from others all the time in business. It's the way it works. You personally may not like it but that's the way the world turns. I don't think I've ever 'stolen' an idea but if I get the chance I would if I liked it.

Now if any of you are thinking about my conscience..... I love to treat people great (give people extra money all the time) but I was born without a conscience. Nothing lingers in my life.... including dry humor people :)
 

ThirtyOne

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Is it legal? Yeah. Is it ethical? That's a question for you to answer.

Its not really legal, in the sense that if the inventor patents the invention within a year from it being shown by himself on the market, he can come after that kid for all that kid made...especially if he can prove he invented it before the kid under cut him. That's a little simple, but that's the gist of it.

The Chinese get away with it because they don't play by our patent rules. There's no way to enforce your monopoly as the rights holder.
 
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