The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

OFF-TOPIC Best Way to Move from EU to US? Any Success Stories?

Remove ads while supporting the Unscripted philosophy...become an INSIDER.

JordanK

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Feb 17, 2014
314
886
321
22
Ireland
Ireland has a very good business environment and is very entrepreneur friendly. However you’d want your business to be involved in tech so you can access the full European/US markets. We only have a small population here so physical products/ecommerce will suck.

The cost of living in Ireland is also one of the highest in Europe. It’s really draining. I know many companies who are set up and operate out of Ireland for tax reasons but the owners live mostly in the nice warm countries to the south or in the cheaper eastern countries.

The best way to use a European passport is to form LTD’s in business friendly countries Ireland/Estonia ect but base yourself in low COL places with good weather/lifestyle & entrepreneur culture.

EDIT: After going to the summit in Phoenix. I also want to move to the US eventually but I’ll probably have business operations in both Ireland & US. Its a long term play at this point.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Forodstar

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Nov 2, 2014
55
56
128
30
My wife got offered I think L1 visa. Something like work for a US subsidiary and then moved to HQ. It was a headache for me even if we got married for me to get work permission as well in the end we decided against.

The US immigration system in my view is broken and the rhetoric on immigration is pretty depressing. I like even love America, been lucky to cross the pond a fair few times. It is a land that oozes opportunity but you can have a business anywhere and hit US end clients.

Also following the theory of go where you are treated best. You are EU you have a boat load of opportunity on your doorstep, you can with relative ease hop over the border to Switzerland and earn comparable or more than the US in finance. You also have a huge safety net to fall back on so especially in your youth you have free reign to make some decent well judged risks.

If you are a true entrepreneurial spirit, there is infact many jurisdictions that could be of interest outside of the US. In English speaking world the US has a really strong pull but realise the world is big and if you are willing to go where you are treated best you will have a great time.
 
OP
OP
VicFountain

VicFountain

Bronze Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 22, 2018
277
427
197
20
Keep this in mind (not that it's a showstopper, just another hoop to jump through):

"From 1 January 2021, free movement will end and the UK will introduce a points-based immigration system. The new system will treat EU and non-EU citizens equally and transform the way in which all migrants come to the UK to work. Anyone coming to the UK to work, excluding Irish citizens, will need to apply for permission in advance.

Under a points-based immigration system, anyone coming to the UK for work must meet a specific set of requirements for which they will score points. Visas are then awarded to those who gain enough points."


Source: The UK's points-based immigration system: an introduction for employers (accessible version)
Nice, one more obstacle to deal with.

Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.
Well, even in Italy illegal immigrants are viewed the same. But yeah, I don't intend to get there illegally, cause that means one day (sooner or later) I'll be deported back in Italy and I'll be blacklisted from the USA for 10 years. For now I'll follow @Knugs advice and make sure I raise my GPA so I can study in America after my bachelor's degree.

Your issue is similar to the issue I have with Germany. Creating a business entity takes months, cash and a lot of effort. When we created our UG form, we had to have a notary to get our papers signed. The state took 3 months to send us our company number, the bank took a long time to get the papers to the notary. We even had investors lined up before so that when we decided to create our company in october, it took, no joke , until febraury to see investors cash in the accounts. And moving the investors cash was the easiest thing.

Sure, in the UK you can create a company whilst sitting on your sofa in less than 10 minutes and have the most important papers in 2 weeks.

Perhaps you should view all of this from a different angle.

Creating a business in some european countries is an barrier to ENTRY issue.
Once you created the entity, you benefit from that barrier greatly.
No client thought this was some kind of student basement project which meant that I was taken serious. This is not the case in the UK; I would never trust a ltd. more than a Gmbh.

I want to point out that I also suffer immensely under "the grass is greener on the other side". I Moved out to the UK at 16 and stayed there for 9 years before I returned. Sure, Germany has its problems but it also has some things that you unfortunately take for granted. And its exactly these things that you take for granted which you might not have in another country.

Such as freedom, healthcare, social support, quality of life, food quality, freedom of expression etc.
I thought Germany actually had favorable laws for business owners. Didn't know it takes months to register a business.

Anyways, sure, it's a barrier to entry. But I believe that any business you start, you must have empathy for who you are selling to.

I'm half Italian and half Russian and honestly, I'd rather sell to Russians than to Italians. I consider myself more Slavic than Italian for some reason. I can't seem to get along with most Italians and I think it's an innate thing. But unfortunately, even in Russia the laws are quite shitty for business owners (if not worse).

MJ says passion doesn't matter, but honestly, you must at least have some empathy when it comes to selling to people. It's not all about cashing. You must understand what the people in a determined culture want, and unfortunately, I'm struggling figuring out what Italians want (besides soccer lol).

And I'm not hating anyone, it's just a gut feeling.

I definitely have shiny objects syndrome and I have a long track record of different hustles I never completed till the end. I don't want this to happen with this one goal of moving in the USA one day. I'll take it with me till I die lol.

Honestly, it is trading an extreme for another, especially now. Your passport enables you to live and work in 27 countries visa-free, why don't you just go to an entrepreneurial EU country? Try the Netherlands, it is full of Italians that ran away due to extreme bureaucracy. I, for example, recently moved to Poland (I'm from Belgium). Eastern and Central Europe are surprisingly hyper open to business and living and hiring cost is cheap. It is super easy to create companies and products which you can sell at a much cheaper price than if they were made in Denmark or Belgium, for example.

Stay in Europe (please). We need people like you to create value here. Don't participate to the brain drain. Also don't forget that the more problems a place has, the more solutions there are to be found and hence money to be made.
This makes sense, for sure. I'm not saying other EU countries suck, at all. I'm just saying this is a desire of mine and that's it. Someone wants a Lamborghini, and someone wants to move in a certain place. I'm the latter. Reminding myself I only live once makes me so obsessed I can't sleep most nights.

But I'll definitely consider moving into an European country as a steppingstone. That makes sense and I have nothing to lose by doing it.

The Netherlands are great and I've heard a lot of positive things about it, too.

I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?
 

mon_fi

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Mar 3, 2020
366
627
254
Brussels
I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?
I understand : )

I wish I could answer your question, but I haven't been here long enough to do so : ) I know that getting a residency card is really easy as you just need to notify them that...you'll be staying. That's it.

Here's what I would assume regarding business: people don't make much money and GDP increase is one of the highest of the entire union, which, from my perspective and mine alone, seems to make people more willing to do business. But this is a feeling. Last time I went to the butchery, the guy couldn't speak English and didn't try to sell me the entire shop, like it would have happened in South-America for example.

FYI, I know that Estonia and Latvia are really business oriented, Estonia is a developing startup hub and I almost stayed in Riga to create a hostel : p Hungary has the lowest corporate taxes of all EU (9%!!!!!!!!) and is strategically placed.

Since this conversation is just between us (lol) I'll share a thought I have been nurturing for a long time...former communist Europe is today what South-Korea and Singapore were in the 60's: rapidly developing, comparatively cheap, with a competent and motivated workforce. I have come to a point where I have almost visited all EU countries and when I compare behaviors, I imagine that in 50 years or so, the financial transfers will be done from East to West and not the other way around.

You need to add to that the thousands of Ukrainians and Belorussians fleeing their country and that need, in order to do so, be highly qualified. Whatever skills you need to hire, you will find. I know Belgians outsource a significant part of computer work to Polish coders for example.

Places I would have a hard time building businesses in (on top of France because their country is unbearably irreformable) are Romania and Bulgaria (no offense to these people) because they still have some old reflexes from Soviet times (corruption) which under no circumstances I will be dealing with. It is a shame, because there is A LOT of money to make there due to the comparatively lower level of development than the west. I am unsure about Croatia.

Bear in mind still that you're speaking with a guy whose been to all continents and ended up choosing Central and Eastern Europe as his favorite place on earth - I'm bias. My dream is to open self-sustaining farms and airbnbs in all post-Soviet EU countries and to travel by horse between them : P

Another country which is good for business is Spain. We don't talk much about them, but they have one of the biggest positive commercial balance of the EU. When I read TMF the second time, I searched the place in the EU with the most sun after MJ explained he had moved to Arizona. It turned out to be Sevilla.

I could talk for hours but I'll stop here. I think Europe is the best place on earth, it is the crib of our civilization, where most inventions have taken place, with incredible culture, history, languages, landscapes and possibilities. To quote Harari, the world has adopted European customs and lifestyle, and European democracy remained sought by everyone that doesn't live in one.

I haven't seen any place that offered as much as Europe did. But well, I haven't been everywhere either.
 

ryandoak

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Aug 1, 2018
36
35
47
21
South Ogden, Utah
Nice, one more obstacle to deal with.



Well, even in Italy illegal immigrants are viewed the same. But yeah, I don't intend to get there illegally, cause that means one day (sooner or later) I'll be deported back in Italy and I'll be blacklisted from the USA for 10 years. For now I'll follow @Knugs advice and make sure I raise my GPA so I can study in America after my bachelor's degree.


I thought Germany actually had favorable laws for business owners. Didn't know it takes months to register a business.

Anyways, sure, it's a barrier to entry. But I believe that any business you start, you must have empathy for who you are selling to.

I'm half Italian and half Russian and honestly, I'd rather sell to Russians than to Italians. I consider myself more Slavic than Italian for some reason. I can't seem to get along with most Italians and I think it's an innate thing. But unfortunately, even in Russia the laws are quite shitty for business owners (if not worse).

MJ says passion doesn't matter, but honestly, you must at least have some empathy when it comes to selling to people. It's not all about cashing. You must understand what the people in a determined culture want, and unfortunately, I'm struggling figuring out what Italians want (besides soccer lol).

And I'm not hating anyone, it's just a gut feeling.

I definitely have shiny objects syndrome and I have a long track record of different hustles I never completed till the end. I don't want this to happen with this one goal of moving in the USA one day. I'll take it with me till I die lol.



This makes sense, for sure. I'm not saying other EU countries suck, at all. I'm just saying this is a desire of mine and that's it. Someone wants a Lamborghini, and someone wants to move in a certain place. I'm the latter. Reminding myself I only live once makes me so obsessed I can't sleep most nights.

But I'll definitely consider moving into an European country as a steppingstone. That makes sense and I have nothing to lose by doing it.

The Netherlands are great and I've heard a lot of positive things about it, too.

I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?
Not trying to be preachy, but don't give up on getting to America. You'll love it.
 

Colin MacLeod

New Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Sep 14, 2017
11
19
19
49
Austin, TX
My wife got offered I think L1 visa. Something like work for a US subsidiary and then moved to HQ. It was a headache for me even if we got married for me to get work permission as well in the end we decided against.
That's not been my experience. My wife has the L1 visa based on her business and I have the L2 as her spouse. I'm free to work for someone else or develop my own business on this visa.
 

MTF

Never give up
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 1, 2011
3,316
16,326
3,254
I understand : )

I wish I could answer your question, but I haven't been here long enough to do so : ) I know that getting a residency card is really easy as you just need to notify them that...you'll be staying. That's it.

Here's what I would assume regarding business: people don't make much money and GDP increase is one of the highest of the entire union, which, from my perspective and mine alone, seems to make people more willing to do business. But this is a feeling. Last time I went to the butchery, the guy couldn't speak English and didn't try to sell me the entire shop, like it would have happened in South-America for example.

FYI, I know that Estonia and Latvia are really business oriented, Estonia is a developing startup hub and I almost stayed in Riga to create a hostel : p Hungary has the lowest corporate taxes of all EU (9%!!!!!!!!) and is strategically placed.

Since this conversation is just between us (lol) I'll share a thought I have been nurturing for a long time...former communist Europe is today what South-Korea and Singapore were in the 60's: rapidly developing, comparatively cheap, with a competent and motivated workforce. I have come to a point where I have almost visited all EU countries and when I compare behaviors, I imagine that in 50 years or so, the financial transfers will be done from East to West and not the other way around.

You need to add to that the thousands of Ukrainians and Belorussians fleeing their country and that need, in order to do so, be highly qualified. Whatever skills you need to hire, you will find. I know Belgians outsource a significant part of computer work to Polish coders for example.

Places I would have a hard time building businesses in (on top of France because their country is unbearably irreformable) are Romania and Bulgaria (no offense to these people) because they still have some old reflexes from Soviet times (corruption) which under no circumstances I will be dealing with. It is a shame, because there is A LOT of money to make there due to the comparatively lower level of development than the west. I am unsure about Croatia.

Bear in mind still that you're speaking with a guy whose been to all continents and ended up choosing Central and Eastern Europe as his favorite place on earth - I'm bias. My dream is to open self-sustaining farms and airbnbs in all post-Soviet EU countries and to travel by horse between them : P

Another country which is good for business is Spain. We don't talk much about them, but they have one of the biggest positive commercial balance of the EU. When I read TMF the second time, I searched the place in the EU with the most sun after MJ explained he had moved to Arizona. It turned out to be Sevilla.

I could talk for hours but I'll stop here. I think Europe is the best place on earth, it is the crib of our civilization, where most inventions have taken place, with incredible culture, history, languages, landscapes and possibilities. To quote Harari, the world has adopted European customs and lifestyle, and European democracy remained sought by everyone that doesn't live in one.

I haven't seen any place that offered as much as Europe did. But well, I haven't been everywhere either.
Fascinating observations. Thank you for posting them. So if you consider Europe the best place on Earth, what is in your opinion the closest thing to it?

I used to be critical of Europe but when I started traveling more to other continents I realized that while for traveling I do consider non-European countries more interesting (because they're more exotic), for everyday living it's hard to beat Europe when it comes to infrastructure, safety, and convenience.

Stuff that happens every day in, say, Latin America (kidnappings, home invasions, muggings with guns), almost or very rarely happens in Europe.

When I now consider moving to a country like, say, Costa Rica, while the climate appeals to me a LOT (even the Canary Islands aren't close to the year-round hot climate of Costa Rica), the safety I grew up with makes me hesitant to move to a country with a crime rate that's probably at worst up to a few dozen times higher than overall in Europe.

As for infrastructure, I love the fact that I can order stuff from most online stores in Europe and receive the items in a few days. Or that I can easily travel between countries. Or that I can move to another country or live there for a few months a year without any or very little paperwork.
 

Knugs

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Jan 10, 2016
222
396
191
29
That's not been my experience. My wife has the L1 visa based on her business and I have the L2 as her spouse. I'm free to work for someone else or develop my own business on this visa.
Reminds me of the irony of the J-2 visa, which is depending on the J-1 Visa. The J-1 Visa is tied to that one employer whilst the J-2 Visa can do whatever they want. The annoying part is that the J-2, I guess same as L-2, is lost as soon as the J-1/L-1 is lost. I heard some couples try to get a primary working visa in case the other one loses their jobs. I bet many people had this issue during first months of COVID.

The non-immigrant intent is the worst though. How do you build a life on that?
 

Colin MacLeod

New Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Sep 14, 2017
11
19
19
49
Austin, TX
The non-immigrant intent is the worst though. How do you build a life on that?
It's challenging for sure - harder with the E2 (which can't be converted to immigration intent) than L1 (which is considered "dual intent"). But my experience is long term there can be ways to adjust status with both, if that's what you want.

For me, the important thing is to build a business, creating market value that ultimately leads to a fast lane life. So given I didn't have enough for the EB5 when we came over, the E2 and L1 were the best paths open.

You can get a job and go down the manager L1 or high-skills H1B (possibly O1, there may be others) employment route. The upside is you can move the states relatively quickly. But that will tie your destiny to a job and potentially the whim of an employer or, at best, the whims of your chosen marketable skills. Probably for at least 5 years - which is a big chunk of your life.

I would rather develop businesses in Europe for a few years, leading to the point where you can expand that into the US.

Oh. And with either route, you can keep entering the Diversity Lottery as long as it's there. (Caveat to this - a lot of people do this - there's some debate about whether this indicates immigration intent, which may invalidate a non-immigration visa like the E2.)

Might not be your main strategy, but it can work.

My best friend won the diversity visa lottery about 20 years ago and has been a US permanent resident and, eventually, citizen ever since. I met a number of diversity lottery winners over the years. It's all possible, for sure.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Last edited:

mon_fi

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Mar 3, 2020
366
627
254
Brussels
Fascinating observations. Thank you for posting them. So if you consider Europe the best place on Earth, what is in your opinion the closest thing to it?

I used to be critical of Europe but when I started traveling more to other continents I realized that while for traveling I do consider non-European countries more interesting (because they're more exotic), for everyday living it's hard to beat Europe when it comes to infrastructure, safety, and convenience.

Stuff that happens every day in, say, Latin America (kidnappings, home invasions, muggings with guns), almost or very rarely happens in Europe.

When I now consider moving to a country like, say, Costa Rica, while the climate appeals to me a LOT (even the Canary Islands aren't close to the year-round hot climate of Costa Rica), the safety I grew up with makes me hesitant to move to a country with a crime rate that's probably at worst up to a few dozen times higher than overall in Europe.

As for infrastructure, I love the fact that I can order stuff from most online stores in Europe and receive the items in a few days. Or that I can easily travel between countries. Or that I can move to another country or live there for a few months a year without any or very little paperwork.
Indeed! Safety is really important to me too, so I would have a look at some Asian countries.

Asia:
China and Hong-Kong, if you don't mind the absence of democracy. South-Korea/Japan, if you can manage to fully blend into the culture. But the must remains Singapore. Low taxes, very high standard of living, international, safe, business oriented and clean. Should I have a family, Singapore is a place I'd like my kids to grow up in.
If you're looking for something cheaper and convenient, the Philippines is the way to go! While traditionally pro-US, they have taken a step towards China which means more trade and less democracy, but if you go there to make money (any type of company, the country is industrializing quickly and there are a sh*t loads of people) that should work. Downside is corruption. Same story for Vietnam, although rising tensions with China would make me choose the Philippines.

Middle-East
Alternatively, the Middle-East ain't bad either, especially now because of the enormous efforts and invested sums that these countries are making to get out of energy dependency (if you're looking for a reason why they are suddenly opening their doors to Israel, it is because money suddenly became more important than ideologies). On top of big real estate projects, governments (EAU, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Koweit) are currently distributing grants for people that want to start businesses (or simply do something with their lives after living off oil for 50 years), which means that there will be many people with money to spend, and many people that will want to do business. Also, these countries have traditionally a huge lack of both expertise and workforce.
Notable places would be Dubai for example, where I suspect the real estate market is about to collapse completely since all Westerners left because of Covid (and I doubt they are coming back). However, should I start an online company where everything is done over the internet, I would go to a smaller Emirate (and avoid Dubai et Abu-Dhabi) where taxes are equally low but cost of living is also much cheaper (there are 7 Emirates in total, so choose whatever you prefer). If you're looking for less mainstream, head to Qatar or Koweit. I would avoid Saudi Arabia atm because I do not believe the country to be stable yet. On the downside, note that the strict Islamic culture and the heat might be difficult to adapt to. To avoid that, you could try Israel, but the country is overcrowded and the real estate is waaaaayyyy too expensive. I think this region is about to undergo rapid and massive economic explosion because of the upcoming economic exchange between countries on one side, and the reconstruction of Syria and Beirut on the other.

Oceania
I lived one year in Australia, standard of living and pay are higher than in Europe and weather is amazing but 1/3 people will end up with skin cancer, so I dont think I'd want to live there. Also it is too far away from everything else and too big, deliveries instantly take three days and cost millions. If you are looking for a worse version of Australia, try New Zealand, the most overrated country on earth (i think people idealize far away places and NZ is so far away that everyone thinks it is the greatest country on earth while it looks like if France and Bosnia had decided to build a low quality amusement park to the image of their blended landscapes, no offense).

Africa is developing as the continent is about to create the biggest free-trade zone in the world, but I would wait for safety improvement before going there. In South-America, I would go for Uruguay or Chili, the problem of Argentina being their constant economic crises.
 

Kak

#CANCELKak
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
6,499
28,168
4,554
I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.
I agree, but I think your ratio is off. The left has taken over 100% of the country.

They have taken over the republican party now which was used to be the only hope for a smaller government. Look at our governor in Texas with his lockdowns and mask orders. Look at the Republicans in the senate embracing the growth of government (but not too much growth because that other arbitrary number thought up by Democrats would be fiscally irresponsible).

Look at the president demanding political posturing from the fed. What amounts to... Let's blow bubbles because I don't want it to pop during my presidency.

It makes me laugh when someone talks about small government using Democrats as the baseline. As if being for a smaller government than the Democrats makes you "small government."

Them: "They're big government Democrats."

Me: "Yeah whatever commie junior, you support 85% of their spending."

Make no mistake. No one is shrinking government. It is growth rate at 100% or growth rate at 85%.
 
Last edited:

ryandoak

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Aug 1, 2018
36
35
47
21
South Ogden, Utah
Indeed! Safety is really important to me too, so I would have a look at some Asian countries.

Asia:
China and Hong-Kong, if you don't mind the absence of democracy. South-Korea/Japan, if you can manage to fully blend into the culture. But the must remains Singapore. Low taxes, very high standard of living, international, safe, business oriented and clean. Should I have a family, Singapore is a place I'd like my kids to grow up in.
If you're looking for something cheaper and convenient, the Philippines is the way to go! While traditionally pro-US, they have taken a step towards China which means more trade and less democracy, but if you go there to make money (any type of company, the country is industrializing quickly and there are a sh*t loads of people) that should work. Downside is corruption. Same story for Vietnam, although rising tensions with China would make me choose the Philippines.

Middle-East
Alternatively, the Middle-East ain't bad either, especially now because of the enormous efforts and invested sums that these countries are making to get out of energy dependency (if you're looking for a reason why they are suddenly opening their doors to Israel, it is because money suddenly became more important than ideologies). On top of big real estate projects, governments (EAU, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Koweit) are currently distributing grants for people that want to start businesses (or simply do something with their lives after living off oil for 50 years), which means that there will be many people with money to spend, and many people that will want to do business. Also, these countries have traditionally a huge lack of both expertise and workforce.
Notable places would be Dubai for example, where I suspect the real estate market is about to collapse completely since all Westerners left because of Covid (and I doubt they are coming back). However, should I start an online company where everything is done over the internet, I would go to a smaller Emirate (and avoid Dubai et Abu-Dhabi) where taxes are equally low but cost of living is also much cheaper (there are 7 Emirates in total, so choose whatever you prefer). If you're looking for less mainstream, head to Qatar or Koweit. I would avoid Saudi Arabia atm because I do not believe the country to be stable yet. On the downside, note that the strict Islamic culture and the heat might be difficult to adapt to. To avoid that, you could try Israel, but the country is overcrowded and the real estate is waaaaayyyy too expensive. I think this region is about to undergo rapid and massive economic explosion because of the upcoming economic exchange between countries on one side, and the reconstruction of Syria and Beirut on the other.

Oceania
I lived one year in Australia, standard of living and pay are higher than in Europe and weather is amazing but 1/3 people will end up with skin cancer, so I dont think I'd want to live there. Also it is too far away from everything else and too big, deliveries instantly take three days and cost millions. If you are looking for a worse version of Australia, try New Zealand, the most overrated country on earth (i think people idealize far away places and NZ is so far away that everyone thinks it is the greatest country on earth while it looks like if France and Bosnia had decided to build a low quality amusement park to the image of their blended landscapes, no offense).

Africa is developing as the continent is about to create the biggest free-trade zone in the world, but I would wait for safety improvement before going there. In South-America, I would go for Uruguay or Chili, the problem of Argentina being their constant economic crises.
I couldn't help but laugh my a$$ off with what you said about New Zealand and Australia.

I've always been curious about moving to Chile though.
 

Jon L

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
1,493
3,824
896
Bellevue, WA
I agree, but I think your ratio is off. The left has taken over 100% of the country.

They have taken over the republican party now which was used to be only hope for a smaller government. Look at our governor in Texas with his lockdowns and mask orders. Look at the Republicans in the senate embracing the growth of government (but not too much growth because that other arbitrary number thought up by Democrats would be fiscally irresponsible).

Look at the president demanding political posturing from the fed. What amounts to... Let's blow bubbles because I don't want it to pop during my presidency.

It makes me laugh when someone talks about small government using Democrats as the baseline. As if being for a smaller government than the Democrats makes you "small government."

Them: "They're big government Democrats."

Me: "Yeah whatever commie junior, you support 85% of their spending."

Make no mistake. No one is shrinking government. It is not growth rate at 100% or growth rate at 85%.
Yeah, I tend to agree, but won't win the argument if I say 100%.

I said what I said about the US being in decline because empires tend to last about 250 years, and they tend to follow predictable paths. We're following the same path.

I listened to an autobiography of Henry Ford a couple weeks ago, and am now listening to one on JD Rockefeller. They talk about things very differently than we do today. The words they used matched the stage of empire development that we were in back then. What we say today matches the stage we're in now.

Back then:
  • Both men felt boundless enthusiasm for what they could accomplish in business
  • They felt a deep sense of obligation to their fellow man
  • They sought to serve the needs of their customers
  • They had a strong dislike for people who wouldn't work for a living. Hard work cures all.
  • Both men supported true charity cases (where the person can't work)
  • They felt that well-organized, thoughtful institutions would cure society's ills.

Compare that to today. How many of us on this forum feel this way about ourselves, much less about the US? I'd say that my chief problem in business (and many of the people in this forum) is that I don't subscribe to those beliefs enough. Multiply that by 330 million people, and you have a country in decline.
 
Last edited:

Kak

#CANCELKak
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
6,499
28,168
4,554
Yeah, I tend to agree, but won't win the argument if I say 100%.

I said what I said about the US being in decline because empires tend to last about 250 years, and they tend to follow predictable paths. We're following the same path.

I listened to an autobiography of Henry Ford a couple weeks ago, and am now listening to one on JD Rockefeller. They talk about things very differently than we do today. The words they used matched the stage of empire development that we were in back then. What we say today matches the stage we're in now.

Back then:
  • Both men felt boundless enthusiasm for what they could accomplish in business
  • They felt a deep sense of obligation to their fellow man
  • They sought to serve the needs of their customers
  • They had a strong dislike for people who wouldn't work for a living. Hard work cures all.
  • Both men supported true charity cases (where the person can't work)
  • They felt that well-organized, thoughtful institutions would cure society's ills.

Compare that to today. How many of us on this forum feel this way about ourselves, much less about the US? I'd say that my chief problem in business (and many of the people in this forum) is that I don't subscribe to those beliefs enough. Multiply that by 330 million people, and you have a country in decline.
I am going to give this post some time on the radio show. Absolutely DEAD FREAKING ON.
 

mon_fi

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Mar 3, 2020
366
627
254
Brussels
I couldn't help but laugh my a$$ off with what you said about New Zealand and Australia.

Most people that I know that have immigrated there came from countries where rapes and murder happen on a daily basis, so I understand why people would want to live there. When you come from a Western EU country like I do though, let's be honest, it is difficult to find better. Even the slowlane is good. 38h/workweek, 25 days paid vacation, comfortable salary. The problem is that you end up competing with people from all over the world because everyone wants to move there, which makes it for me, who has no experience, a very tough place to get a job at, while all the Italians, French, German and Dutch got jobs without problems.

So I moved out of my country where I had no value (and let's be fair, i moved out because I didn't learn nor developed valuable skills and this is my fault) to Poland: half the salary, but probably easier for me to gain experience and develop skills. Funny, while Accenture Belgium wouldn't even look at my resume, Accenture Poland considers me. Believe it or not, it feels good to have value.

But all of that doesnt matter since I dont want to be a slowlaner anyway. Making 1500 euros in Brussels or 900 euros in Poland is literally the same as I am not getting a job for the money, but to survive while building something else on the side. And believe it or not, but Warsaw is a much nicer place to survive in than Brussels.

Sorry for talking so much about myself,

M.
 

seb451

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Apr 9, 2020
37
43
107
Chile
I feel almost the same, the crab mentality in my country is tough. The good news is #15 in economic freedom and entrepreneurship is being strongly promoted. As a developing country there must be a lot of problems to be solved.

Maybe your situation is different, though I think being a EU citizen gives you a lot of advantages when doing business in that area.
 
OP
OP
VicFountain

VicFountain

Bronze Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 22, 2018
277
427
197
20
Most people that I know that have immigrated there came from countries where rapes and murder happen on a daily basis, so I understand why people would want to live there. When you come from a Western EU country like I do though, let's be honest, it is difficult to find better. Even the slowlane is good. 38h/workweek, 25 days paid vacation, comfortable salary. The problem is that you end up competing with people from all over the world because everyone wants to move there, which makes it for me, who has no experience, a very tough place to get a job at, while all the Italians, French, German and Dutch got jobs without problems.

So I moved out of my country where I had no value (and let's be fair, i moved out because I didn't learn nor developed valuable skills and this is my fault) to Poland: half the salary, but probably easier for me to gain experience and develop skills. Funny, while Accenture Belgium wouldn't even look at my resume, Accenture Poland considers me. Believe it or not, it feels good to have value.

But all of that doesnt matter since I dont want to be a slowlaner anyway. Making 1500 euros in Brussels or 900 euros in Poland is literally the same as I am not getting a job for the money, but to survive while building something else on the side. And believe it or not, but Warsaw is a much nicer place to survive in than Brussels.

Sorry for talking so much about myself,

M.
Did you really struggle to find a job? I remember a post of yours (correct me if I'm mistaken) where you said you have 2 degrees and a Masters or something like that. Haven't those helped at all? How many applications did you send and what was the response rate?

Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.

I'm curious to hear stories about people who managed to start a successful business in the last decade by funding their system through a $1200/month salary job. Maybe it was possible 20-30 years ago, but nowadays the system is way too chaotic and I doubt someone can do it this way. I guess it also depends on where you live and what the living cost is.

Like I see all these middle class people working their slowlane jobs and ending up wasting their money on BMW's and Mercedeses (it's their decision of course and I'm still a nobody to judge). Imagine if you saved every penny and invested it into a real business lol.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Last edited:

mon_fi

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Mar 3, 2020
366
627
254
Brussels
Did you really struggle to find a job? I remember a post of yours (correct me if I'm mistaken) where you said you have 2 degrees and a Masters or something like that. Haven't those helped at all? How many applications did you send and what was the response rate?

Yes and I did, because of three reasons: my diplomas aren't really good, I graduated in June and so don't have any experience, and I'm Belgian so expected to speak both French and Dutch, which I don't. Internationals have it easier as they only have to speak English.

Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.
Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.

I'm curious to hear stories about people who managed to start a successful business in the last decade by funding their system through a $1200/month salary job. Maybe it was possible 20-30 years ago, but nowadays the system is way too chaotic and I doubt someone can do it this way. I guess it also depends on where you live and what the living cost is.

Like I see all these middle class people working their slowlane jobs and ending up wasting their money on BMW's and Mercedeses (it's their decision of course and I'm still a nobody to judge). Imagine if you saved every penny and invested it into a real business lol.

I guess it depends on which type of business you start. If you are doing a window cleaning business or (an all-time fav on this forum) an online marketing agency, you don't need much to get started (but you violate the commandment of entry). Now, an airline, that's something else....however, I don't think money is the biggest problem. There are plenty of people that fund bad ideas (like, really bad ideas), so you can probably find someone to fund yours, especially if your idea is good. Whether it'd be funded by family, friends, VC, bank, the employees themselves, crowdfunding, an incubator, a university, the government, NGOs, or the National Wealth Fund of Saudi Arabia (lol), "entrepreneur" is the new fancy thing now, everyone wants their own company that have "a mission" which is "to help", "design" or "empower people" blahblahblah it's always the same words. I'm making fun of it, but it works well. I was reading some weeks ago about this startup that wanted to bring medical care to those without insurance being valued at 1 billion. 1 billion. "Hey Jerry, how did you find that idea? Oh, I just wanted to offer affordable care to those without insurance". If it isn't making money out of poverty, i don't know what is. It is brilliant though, because it's a win-win for everybody. Want your company funded tomorrow? Do something "social" with the words "empowerment", "women", "minorities" or "LGBT". People will be fighting to fund you, for virtue signaling on one hand and by fear to have their reputation damage if they don't on the other.

I'm getting off topic.

Stay in Europe. Build value here. Or come join me in Poland ; )
 

Kevin88660

Gold Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Feb 8, 2019
1,075
1,086
365
Singapore
I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.
You can consider this.

Build a location independent online business first, and slowly figure out where you want to go next.

When you have more money you will have more options.
 
OP
OP
VicFountain

VicFountain

Bronze Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 22, 2018
277
427
197
20
Yes and I did, because of three reasons: my diplomas aren't really good, I graduated in June and so don't have any experience, and I'm Belgian so expected to speak both French and Dutch, which I don't. Internationals have it easier as they only have to speak English.





I guess it depends on which type of business you start. If you are doing a window cleaning business or (an all-time fav on this forum) an online marketing agency, you don't need much to get started (but you violate the commandment of entry). Now, an airline, that's something else....however, I don't think money is the biggest problem. There are plenty of people that fund bad ideas (like, really bad ideas), so you can probably find someone to fund yours, especially if your idea is good. Whether it'd be funded by family, friends, VC, bank, the employees themselves, crowdfunding, an incubator, a university, the government, NGOs, or the National Wealth Fund of Saudi Arabia (lol), "entrepreneur" is the new fancy thing now, everyone wants their own company that have "a mission" which is "to help", "design" or "empower people" blahblahblah it's always the same words. I'm making fun of it, but it works well. I was reading some weeks ago about this startup that wanted to bring medical care to those without insurance being valued at 1 billion. 1 billion. "Hey Jerry, how did you find that idea? Oh, I just wanted to offer affordable care to those without insurance". If it isn't making money out of poverty, i don't know what is. It is brilliant though, because it's a win-win for everybody. Want your company funded tomorrow? Do something "social" with the words "empowerment", "women", "minorities" or "LGBT". People will be fighting to fund you, for virtue signaling on one hand and by fear to have their reputation damage if they don't on the other.

I'm getting off topic.

Stay in Europe. Build value here. Or come join me in Poland ; )
Yeah that's true. You can probably start offline businesses with little capital. I wonder if that's possible in Italy, though (since you have to pay the government even if you make 0 sales...).

Today I realized there's always a way to solve a problem...and I'm not talking about business, I'm talking about life.

I'll stay in Europe for now (I decided not to drop out from University for now), but I'll get to the USA one day, no matter what.

I'm figuring out which business I can start now in Italy. I thought of either consulting (web design/digital marketing) or an online business (and when I think of online business I can't but think of dropshipping lol).

You can consider this.

Build a location independent online business first, and slowly figure out where you want to go next.

When you have more money you will have more options.
I thought about this. I thought of dropshipping but I still have a bias in me that says "It will be a waste of time and money" even though I never tried it so I can't even tell.

I'm learning to code right now, but even at that point, before I learn to create useful apps, 2-3 years will pass.

I'm immersed in a crippling scarcity mindset. I have 0 streams of income at this moment and making the first stream of income seems like the most difficult thing in the world when you are just beginning. I guess many people here can share this feeling.

Analysis paralysis + learned helplessness + shiny objects syndrome and here you have the shittiest mindset ever. I'm working to fix this...
 

Morgan77

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jan 1, 2020
28
51
24
This isn't about moving to the US but about your last couple posts on wanting to start an online business.

I think dropshipping has a bad reputation on this forum, and in some ways rightfully so, however I do believe it's a good way to test a product without needing a massive investment. See how the market reacts to it through facebook ads, influencers, or however. If you can see there's a need / want for this product, focus more on your branding, then make a larger investment and order your product in bulk to a fulfilment warehouse or even to yourself if you wanted to do it all, and cut down on those lengthy shipping times. Of course this requires searching for a product that can fill a need, and building a brand with longevity rather than something that will only be around for a couple of months.

Just an idea for you.

I'm also 20 and recognise mindset is massive in the start of your entrepreneurial journey. Make sure to only focus on ONE thing and master that one thing.
 

mon_fi

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Mar 3, 2020
366
627
254
Brussels
I'm figuring out which business I can start now in Italy. I thought of either consulting (web design/digital marketing) or an online business (and when I think of online b
Have a look at Estonia's e-residency and online making company facilities. I wrote a thread about this, search for e-residency.
 

DiamondDog

Contributor
Dec 3, 2016
24
58
23
27
I'm on the same boat as you atm but I'm seeking to move to the UK for personal (romantic reasons).

Here are my options:
1.- Pay an absurd amount of money for a Master's Degree and hope that I can find a job in the UK afterwards.
2.- Apply for a work visa but this is unlikely to be successful since I'm a lawyer in my home country and I would basically have to study/train for another 4 years, which I don't want to do. It's also very costly.
3.- Live there on a tourist visa for 6 months while managing my business remotely. I'm about to do this but it's only for limited time.
4.- Get married to a UK citizen.

I'll probably end up getting married after those six months. Welp.
 
OP
OP
VicFountain

VicFountain

Bronze Contributor
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 22, 2018
277
427
197
20
I'm on the same boat as you atm but I'm seeking to move to the UK for personal (romantic reasons).

Here are my options:
1.- Pay an absurd amount of money for a Master's Degree and hope that I can find a job in the UK afterwards.
2.- Apply for a work visa but this is unlikely to be successful since I'm a lawyer in my home country and I would basically have to study/train for another 4 years, which I don't want to do. It's also very costly.
3.- Live there on a tourist visa for 6 months while managing my business remotely. I'm about to do this but it's only for limited time.
4.- Get married to a UK citizen.

I'll probably end up getting married after those six months. Welp.
Would you get married normally if it wasn't for you wanting to move to the UK?
I think that's a difficult decision. I'm still 20 and getting married is at the bottom of my wish-list right now.

But that's a great plan. Going there as a tourist for 6 months. I didn't think about that in regards to the USA. I think you can stay in the USA for 90 days with an ESTA. But I would need money to live there and without a visa you can't work there legally.

Since you are a lawyer I imagine you have enough money saved up. You just need to go out there every day and approach chicks and mission accomplished.
 

DiamondDog

Contributor
Dec 3, 2016
24
58
23
27
Would you get married normally if it wasn't for you wanting to move to the UK?
I think that's a difficult decision. I'm still 20 and getting married is at the bottom of my wish-list right now.

But that's a great plan. Going there as a tourist for 6 months. I didn't think about that in regards to the USA. I think you can stay in the USA for 90 days with an ESTA. But I would need money to live there and without a visa you can't work there legally.

Since you are a lawyer I imagine you have enough money saved up. You just need to go out there every day and approach chicks and mission accomplished.
Haha, no no. I already have an English girlfriend that lived with me for half a year in my country. Now my part of the deal is to go there for 6 months as well.

I'm 27 and honestly I wouldn't want to get married this young or out of necessity. I'd prefer to do it when the time feels right. If I get married soon, it's only because I want to be with this woman in person all the time. Long distance sucks.

I'm a lawyer in a developing country so I don't make enough compared to decent first world income (I also got laid off in July, I worked in the oil industry and you know what happened to oil prices). I'll probably lose some money doing all this but it's worth it to me.

I'm more concerned about my business making enough to keep me alive in the UK while being able to reinvest (much higher cost of living compared to Bolivia). In addition to that, I'll be less employable in the UK and I will need a job to keep the business running and growing as well as starting operations in the UK.

Not a logical decision at all! It's all emotional.
 

beswaax

Contributor
Nov 26, 2019
19
26
17
Isn't the US in decline? I really think the EU is much better, you already have EU citizenship. From what I have seen Estonia is pretty good for starting a business, I am planning on using their e-residency myself. And Portugal has some kind of thing where you don't have to pay taxes for 10 years on foreign income if you are a foreigner.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Fox' Web School's "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2020
This year has been quite crazy so far, and a lot of people have reached out to ask me if web...
  • Sticky
FEATURED! Introducing... WEALTH EXPO$ED, A Short Story By MJ DeMarco
Got it several weeks ago and have listened to it several times now. I've definitely met both...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Just got off the phone with @LightHouse. Having just a 45 minute conversation with him has...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Kill Bigger Incubator
@Kak Out of curiosity, what types of businesses are you advising on? (I read this whole thread...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
Just bought 5 of your Upwork courses. Thanks for making valuable content Lex!
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Grow Your Business With a Book (An Unorthodox Marketing Strategy That Built One of the Largest...
Thanks for your offer to look at my book. Here's the link to the squeeze page Buy The Prosperous...



Forum Sponsor

sponsor

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom