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OFF-TOPIC Best Way to Move from EU to US? Any Success Stories?

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VicFountain

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I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.
 

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ryandoak

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I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.
I'm from America, so I don't know if there's a lot I can offer in the way of a helpful answer. For immigration, you may just have to apply for a visa, or green card, and hope you get entry. Having a degree helps somewhat, since you aren't trying to come here with no job skills (i.e. liable to be living on welfare).

As for the culture in Italy, you're still going to have people discouraging you here. Although I don't imagine as much. My advice would be to treat immigrating here as a process the same way you would treat entrepeneurship as a process.

You're gonna have to start climbing that mountain. Figure out what the first step is for applying to entry here. If you're denied, keep applying. With Donald Trump, immigration's been a bit more stringent. Nevertheless, I think you should still try to apply and see if you can get in. We could always use more entrepeneurs here.
 
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VicFountain

VicFountain

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I'm from America, so I don't know if there's a lot I can offer in the way of a helpful answer. For immigration, you may just have to apply for a visa, or green card, and hope you get entry. Having a degree helps somewhat, since you aren't trying to come here with no job skills (i.e. liable to be living on welfare).

As for the culture in Italy, you're still going to have people discouraging you here. Although I don't imagine as much. My advice would be to treat immigrating here as a process the same way you would treat entrepeneurship as a process.

You're gonna have to start climbing that mountain. Figure out what the first step is for applying to entry here. If you're denied, keep applying. With Donald Trump, immigration's been a bit more stringent. Nevertheless, I think you should still try to apply and see if you can get in. We could always use more entrepeneurs here.
Thanks for the input!

I definitely see this as a long process and I expect a lot of obstacles throughout the way but there's no point of ever giving up for me since this is probably my only real goal right now.
 

MTF

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I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.
 

Strm

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In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.
True, pretty much everything here can be done online and it's easy to start a business. We also offer e-residency for foreigners for them to easily start their businesses, but I don't know much about it.

On the other hand, I do think it's hard to move here and to get a job as a foreigner, especially in the near future due to the COVID. And the weather is shitty.
 
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VicFountain

VicFountain

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I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.
I've never seen that list before, wow, 74th. You just added fire to my desire to get out from here lol.
I feel like I'm wasting my life literally.

I thought of the USA in particular cause that's always been a dream of mine and I feel like the environment is a huge factor as you said. Environmental psychology is one of the most proven things in life. That's the exponential distribution. 80% of the successful people (and businesses) are in 20% of the countries. And USA is definitely the one.

I also thought of moving to another European country, in case. I've heard of Estonia, too. Although, as I said, I have a strong desire to move in the USA in particular. So I honestly must make it happen one way or another.

The only way to move in the USA from what I've seen is:
- Get hired by an American employer for a position which has low offer in the market or for a position in which you are incredibly skilled (and you must prove that through achievements/university degrees). This employer will need to compile a I-140 form and I'm sure this is what makes the process hard.
- Invest $500.000/$1.000.000 (which I don't currently have) and start a business where you are going to hire at least 10 American employees.
- Win the Green Card Lottery. I don't take this in consideration cause I might get to 80 years old when I actually win a lottery. Hoping for luck isn't the strategy I believe...

My current options:

1. I thought of keep going on my self-taught coding journey and become a great web developer, great enough that someone in America will want to hire me, while finish my degree in Economics.

or 2. Finish my degree in Economics and get a Master in the USA (ouch, this will cost me ~ $45k).

or 3. Move to UK/Estonia/any other business-favorable EU country and start an actual business. Rack up half a million dollars in that business. I guess this option might take me half a decade if not more, since this would be my first ever business and I'm sure I'll have to fail a lot before seeing half a million dollars in my bank account.

or/and 4. Contact 50-100 American companies every day (once they start re-accepting immigrants) and hope for probability to come. The only real skill I have right now is graphic design, but from what I know there's low demand for that skill and I don't know yet whether getting an EB-3 visa would be feasible.

edit: I'll still take in strong consideration the UK. Actually, it would be awesome to move there.
 
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UK_Mike

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1. I thought of keep going on my self-taught coding journey and become a great web developer, great enough that someone in America will want to hire me, while finish my degree in Economics.
Would that work? Being a coder is something you can do anywhere, so however great you become, and whoever in the US (or anywhere else) wants to hire you, would they really want to bring you to the US, or prefer to have you work where you are?

I don't want to just be negative, I understand that you are considering employment by a US company as stepping-stone, a means to an end, I'm just not sure this specific option will help you.
 
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VicFountain

VicFountain

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Would that work? Being a coder is something you can do anywhere, so however great you become, and whoever in the US (or anywhere else) wants to hire you, would they really want to bring you to the US, or prefer to have you work where you are?

I don't want to just be negative, I understand that you are considering employment by a US company as stepping-stone, a means to an end, I'm just not sure this specific option will help you.
I know what you mean. I have to research that, but I'm sure there must be a way since there are many people from third-world countries who managed to move that way.

Another option I've read is to get hired by a company (in Europe) which has offices in the USA, and eventually, ask for transfer.
 

Colin MacLeod

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---
I hate disclaimers but this advice could be really wrong and if you follow it could get you in a ton of trouble. I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist and this is my own opinion just for your interest and entertainment. Seriously, get an immigration lawyer.
--


My wife and I are from Europe (Slovakia & UK) and moved to Austin, TX in 2014.

There seem to be 4 main ways to emigrate to the US:

1) Family (marry a US citizen or US permanent resident)
2) Use skills to get a sought-after job (e.g. Nurse, IT Specialist → H1B Visa)
3) Be a person of extraordinary ability (e.g. you are Melania Trump → EB1 Visa)
4) Invest in a business or expand an existing business (EB5, E2 or L1)


We went for option (4).

Within that there are (3) main options we explored

EB5 - you need to invest either $500,000 into a designated development zone, or $1M into another US business. The majority funds need to come from your own savings and you will be asked to demonstrate the source of your investment. This visa has a direct path to a green-card, which ultimately leads to citizenship.

E2 - only for citizens of counties that have an E2 agreement. I checked online and it seems Italy does. This visa requires that you make a substantial investment in a business, usually interpreted as more than $100k. You need to make most/all of the investment yourself and they will check the source of the funds.
The financial bar is much lower than the EB5 - however it comes at a cost.
There is no direct path to citizenship from the E2 visa. You will be welcome to stay as long as your business remains viable, and it will be re-assessed every 3-5 years. When the business is no longer viable, you will have to leave. Seriously - no direct path to citizenship. Also, if you have dependent children, they will have to leave or find their own path to a vsia when they turn 21, regardless of how long they have lived in the US.

L1 - you have a business overseas with a subsidiary in the US. If you already have a business overseas, you can purchase a business in the US. Or you can start a US subsidiary of your overseas business from scratch.
If you worked for an overseas business for a period of time (I think it's a year), and they have a US subsidiary, they can sponsor you as an executive/high value employee (there may be other classes).
There are different classes of L1 for managers/executives and business owners - with their own requirements and obligations. For example, there are restrictions on the ownership structure of the US and foreign-owned business.
Like the E2 visa, this is a nonimmigrant visa. However, unlike the E2, there is a way to convert the visa from a non-immigration to immigration intent, which allows you over time to qualify for a green-card and, ultimately, citizenship.

My wife had emigrated previously from Slovakia to the UK - no lawyers required!! - but this is America and I would say no matter which path you take, you NEED strong legal advice to emigrate to the USA.

We actually went through 6 lawyers before we found someone who really worked well for us and got us where we wanted to be. Each lawyer will usually want at least a $1,000 retainer. It gets expensive.

We are currently on an L1/L2 visa.

We love living in Texas. Everyone has been massively welcoming to us. I love the CAN DO attitude. Success is celebrated! We have good friends over here, a great life. America has been EVERYTHING I wanted her to be. I love this country, absolutely love being here - being a good citizen, loving our community, building wealth and spreading goodwill.

It can be done and if you want to make it happen, it will for you. I wish you all the joy and happiness it has brought to us.
 
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seaten69

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Jul 4, 2020
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I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.
mine's in 139
 
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Knugs

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I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.
I have always been dreaming to move to the US. Spent many summers there. Did a roadtrip for 3 months on the entire east coast and I'm still in love. @Colin MacLeod describes some of the options pretty well. I also had a consultation with an immigrant lawyer regarding O-1 visa. Even as a medic myself the hurdles are tough but its doable.

If you keep consistent and keep working for it you will eventually get there. I see a few viable options in your case.

1) Just keep doing the greencard lottery. I know the chances are bad but a lot of immigrants in the US still take part in it, because of the limitations of their own visa. A lot of visas dont guarantee you a greencard. So might as well do it and just hope for the best.

2) Study and do a Masters at an american university. This is probably the easiest/quickest way for you and enables you to work on multiple visa-pathways.
a) a US based Msc is far more attractive for US-based employers and ignores the H1B visa CAP. The time you spend in the US networking can/will open many doors (job opportunities) for you.
b) You might meet the love of your life, who by chance is an american. (psssst: family based greencard). This is by far the easiest freaking way.
c) You might be part of a US startup, which goes on to generate revenue and employ people (I think this goes towards the E2 Visa).

In my case, I'm an european medic and I'm doing the US exams and tring to get a residency training post. If I succeed I get to work on a J-1 or H1B visa for 3 years. After that through J-waiver program or H1B sponsoring employer I would be able to work as a doc and earn the greencard.

A different avenue I explored was the E2 Visa and O-1 Visa. I have an impressive looking startup here which raised capital and by investing about 100k in the US, I could get a E2 Visa there. This is much simpler, when you have the money. This isnt true in my case.

The O-1 Visa (Einstein Visa) is for extraordinary abilities and I apparently have a good chance for it. But after reflection it isnt my cup of tea.

If you are serious I do believe your best bet is to go for a masters degree in the US and work on the different options to make it happen. BUT during COVID most visas are cancelled.
 

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VicFountain

VicFountain

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---

I hate disclaimers but this advice could be really wrong and if you follow it could get you in a ton of trouble. I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist and this is my own opinion just for your interest and entertainment. Seriously, get an immigration lawyer.

--





My wife and I are from Europe (Slovakia & UK) and moved to Austin, TX in 2014.



There seem to be 4 main ways to emigrate to the US:



1) Family (marry a US citizen or US permanent resident)

2) Use skills to get a sought-after job (e.g. Nurse, IT Specialist → H1B Visa)

3) Be a person of extraordinary ability (e.g. you are Melania Trump → EB1 Visa)

4) Invest in a business or expand an existing business (EB5, E2 or L1)





We went for option (4).



Within that there are (3) main options we explored



EB5 - you need to invest either $500,000 into a designated development zone, or $1M into another US business. The majority funds need to come from your own savings and you will be asked to demonstrate the source of your investment. This visa has a direct path to a green-card, which ultimately leads to citizenship.



E2 - only for citizens of counties that have an E2 agreement. I checked online and it seems Italy does. This visa requires that you make a substantial investment in a business, usually interpreted as more than $100k. You need to make most/all of the investment yourself and they will check the source of the funds.

The financial bar is much lower than the EB5 - however it comes at a cost.

There is no direct path to citizenship from the E2 visa. You will be welcome to stay as long as your business remains viable, and it will be re-assessed every 3-5 years. When the business is no longer viable, you will have to leave. Seriously - no direct path to citizenship. Also, if you have dependent children, they will have to leave or find their own path to a vsia when they turn 21, regardless of how long they have lived in the US.



L1 - you have a business overseas with a subsidiary in the US. If you already have a business overseas, you can purchase a business in the US. Or you can start a US subsidiary of your overseas business from scratch.

If you worked for an overseas business for a period of time (I think it's a year), and they have a US subsidiary, they can sponsor you as an executive/high value employee (there may be other classes).

There are different classes of L1 for managers/executives and business owners - with their own requirements and obligations. For example, there are restrictions on the ownership structure of the US and foreign-owned business.

Like the E2 visa, this is a nonimmigrant visa. However, unlike the E2, there is a way to convert the visa from a non-immigration to immigration intent, which allows you over time to qualify for a green-card and, ultimately, citizenship.



My wife had emigrated previously from Slovakia to the UK - no lawyers required!! - but this is America and I would say no matter which path you take, you NEED strong legal advice to emigrate to the USA.



We actually went through 6 lawyers before we found someone who really worked well for us and got us where we wanted to be. Each lawyer will usually want at least a $1,000 retainer. It gets expensive.



We are currently on an L1/L2 visa.



We love living in Texas. Everyone has been massively welcoming to us. I love the CAN DO attitude. Success is celebrated! We have good friends over here, a great life. America has been EVERYTHING I wanted her to be. I love this country, absolutely love being here - being a good citizen, loving our community, building wealth and spreading goodwill.



It can be done and if you want to make it happen, it will for you. I wish you all the joy and happiness it has brought to us.
Thanks a lot. I'll keep this in mind. I really believe you about the environmental attitude and mindset. That stuff is very powerful and the right influence might turn the worst loser into a successful man.

At the end of the day, we are always being conditioned and influenced by somebody, you might as well choose somebody who indirectly pushes you to achieve your goals, instead of people who bring you down every day.

I have always been dreaming to move to the US. Spent many summers there. Did a roadtrip for 3 months on the entire east coast and I'm still in love. @Colin MacLeod describes some of the options pretty well. I also had a consultation with an immigrant lawyer regarding O-1 visa. Even as a medic myself the hurdles are tough but its doable.



If you keep consistent and keep working for it you will eventually get there. I see a few viable options in your case.



1) Just keep doing the greencard lottery. I know the chances are bad but a lot of immigrants in the US still take part in it, because of the limitations of their own visa. A lot of visas dont guarantee you a greencard. So might as well do it and just hope for the best.



2) Study and do a Masters at an american university. This is probably the easiest/quickest way for you and enables you to work on multiple visa-pathways.

a) a US based Msc is far more attractive for US-based employers and ignores the H1B visa CAP. The time you spend in the US networking can/will open many doors (job opportunities) for you.

b) You might meet the love of your life, who by chance is an american. (psssst: family based greencard). This is by far the easiest freaking way.

c) You might be part of a US startup, which goes on to generate revenue and employ people (I think this goes towards the E2 Visa).



In my case, I'm an european medic and I'm doing the US exams and tring to get a residency training post. If I succeed I get to work on a J-1 or H1B visa for 3 years. After that through J-waiver program or H1B sponsoring employer I would be able to work as a doc and earn the greencard.



A different avenue I explored was the E2 Visa and O-1 Visa. I have an impressive looking startup here which raised capital and by investing about 100k in the US, I could get a E2 Visa there. This is much simpler, when you have the money. This isnt true in my case.



The O-1 Visa (Einstein Visa) is for extraordinary abilities and I apparently have a good chance for it. But after reflection it isnt my cup of tea.



If you are serious I do believe your best bet is to go for a masters degree in the US and work on the different options to make it happen. BUT during COVID most visas are cancelled.
Thanks man. I'll definitely do the Green Card Lottery, what I meant, though, is that I would rather invest the majority of my time and emotional energy on outcomes with a higher probability of happening.

I agree with you, studying and (hopefully) being accepted into an American University for a Master is probably the most viable way for me right now. I'm 20 and I have barely €1000 saved up, so I can't invest into a business in the USA right now. My parents actually want me to keep studying in University and honestly, I don't see a way out. I might move in the UK and get a job, but that job will probably pay me badly and so, is it really worth it? Hard to tell.

I thought of starting a web design (+ some digital marketing stuff) business here in Italy and truly put all my effort into it while I study in University. I actually feel like this is the only way for me right now.

If I manage to make €3000-€5000 (net profit)/month I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses) or invest these money into a US business.

The H1B visa seems to be great, too. The sad fact is that it only lasts 3 years.


I guess the creating value thing is the most important thing here. It's no different than starting a business, your "customer" will be your employer, though.


I think in this game win the people who want it the most and are willing to become high value individuals who can truly help companies (or study in America, which requires a very good GPA to begin with...). There's no cheating, yes you can get married or hope for the lottery, but honestly, how likely is that to happen? In Italy you have 1% of chance of winning the DV lottery. I will have to try 100 times before I'll win it, if only I would be alive by then.


Let's make this happen...
 

ryandoak

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I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.
From what I've read on the replies here, it seems that your best bet may be moving to Ireland (or Estonia), creating a successful business there, then selling the business for at least $500,000 (or however much that is in euros/monopoly money), then using that investment money as your entry into America.

It seems like the fastlane is your most realistic route to America.
 

Knugs

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Thanks a lot. I'll keep this in mind. I really believe you about the environmental attitude and mindset. That stuff is very powerful and the right influence might turn the worst loser into a successful man.

At the end of the day, we are always being conditioned and influenced by somebody, you might as well choose somebody who indirectly pushes you to achieve your goals, instead of people who bring you down every day.



Thanks man. I'll definitely do the Green Card Lottery, what I meant, though, is that I would rather invest the majority of my time and emotional energy on outcomes with a higher probability of happening.

I agree with you, studying and (hopefully) being accepted into an American University for a Master is probably the most viable way for me right now. I'm 20 and I have barely €1000 saved up, so I can't invest into a business in the USA right now. My parents actually want me to keep studying in University and honestly, I don't see a way out. I might move in the UK and get a job, but that job will probably pay me badly and so, is it really worth it? Hard to tell.

I thought of starting a web design (+ some digital marketing stuff) business here in Italy and truly put all my effort into it while I study in University. I actually feel like this is the only way for me right now.

If I manage to make €3000-€5000 (net profit)/month I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses) or invest these money into a US business.

The H1B visa seems to be great, too. The sad fact is that it only lasts 3 years.


I guess the creating value thing is the most important thing here. It's no different than starting a business, your "customer" will be your employer, though.


I think in this game win the people who want it the most and are willing to become high value individuals who can truly help companies (or study in America, which requires a very good GPA to begin with...). There's no cheating, yes you can get married or hope for the lottery, but honestly, how likely is that to happen? In Italy you have 1% of chance of winning the DV lottery. I will have to try 100 times before I'll win it, if only I would be alive by then.


Let's make this happen...
H1B
-The H1B Visa has a maximum length of 6 years. Its usually capped each year which means that only that many "new ones" will be issued per year. A H1B Visa is also an immigrant-intent visa (dual intent actually) and in that space of 6 years you are allowed to apply for greencard processing. Your major advantage in comparison to chinese or indian nationals is that there wont be a long backlog of italian nationals waiting for greencard processing. Once you have the greencard you can stay and work as you please.
-The real disadvantage of the H1B visa is actually your reliance on the employer. So unless its a very safe job and safe company you will always have a little uncertainty in the back of your head as you may loose your job unexpecdetly. When you loose your job you also loose your VISA. (In all fairness the US gives you a little time to find an alternative job; but they are tough).
-The actual difficulty is to secure a job and persuade an employer to "sponsor" your initial H1B. Thats why doing a masters in the US and networking is in your situation the best strategy.
__

If you look at all the other visas they all have some downsides. For example:
-marrying a US citizen for the sake of living in the US is fundamentally a toxic and immoral setup but if its true love, why not.
-the Investors Visa (EB5 I think 500-1mil) takes many years to have processed; Literally opening a branch up (E2) and investing 100k to build your business in the US is almost always better/easier.
-All the non-immigrant intent VISAs offer no security. Once you loose the visa, you gotta go home.
-The O-1 Visas are very difficult to get.

Remember, you only have the real "american freedom" when you get that greencard. Only immigrant-intent VISAs count towards that.


I know we are all in this forum because of the desire for true entrepreneurship and true financial freedom and that a lot of the "mantra" is directed against employment, university and typical "slowlane" activities. Over the last few years I have been observing how many of my younger cousins and friends (19-24) have taken the same stance. They want to hustle but they cant for whatever limitation. They go to university to satisfy their parents and they fall down this hole they never wanted to be in. This age group has become in my view increasingly "lost" and doesnt really know what they want to do. They know what they want to have but dont know how to go about it. This is in Germany.

When I read how your parents want you to study, how you only have 1000$ saved up, how the business regulations are tough on startups and how you "thought" of starting some company might be the only way, I get the exact same VIBE from you too.
 

Martin.G

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Why don't create a business online and then move it to the USA? It's better than start something from scratch after you sold your business for $1 million. Also, the $500k it's not longer available because now the minimum is $1 million.
 
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H1B
-The H1B Visa has a maximum length of 6 years. Its usually capped each year which means that only that many "new ones" will be issued per year. A H1B Visa is also an immigrant-intent visa (dual intent actually) and in that space of 6 years you are allowed to apply for greencard processing. Your major advantage in comparison to chinese or indian nationals is that there wont be a long backlog of italian nationals waiting for greencard processing. Once you have the greencard you can stay and work as you please.
-The real disadvantage of the H1B visa is actually your reliance on the employer. So unless its a very safe job and safe company you will always have a little uncertainty in the back of your head as you may loose your job unexpecdetly. When you loose your job you also loose your VISA. (In all fairness the US gives you a little time to find an alternative job; but they are tough).
-The actual difficulty is to secure a job and persuade an employer to "sponsor" your initial H1B. Thats why doing a masters in the US and networking is in your situation the best strategy.
__

If you look at all the other visas they all have some downsides. For example:
-marrying a US citizen for the sake of living in the US is fundamentally a toxic and immoral setup but if its true love, why not.
-the Investors Visa (EB5 I think 500-1mil) takes many years to have processed; Literally opening a branch up (E2) and investing 100k to build your business in the US is almost always better/easier.
-All the non-immigrant intent VISAs offer no security. Once you loose the visa, you gotta go home.
-The O-1 Visas are very difficult to get.

Remember, you only have the real "american freedom" when you get that greencard. Only immigrant-intent VISAs count towards that.


I know we are all in this forum because of the desire for true entrepreneurship and true financial freedom and that a lot of the "mantra" is directed against employment, university and typical "slowlane" activities. Over the last few years I have been observing how many of my younger cousins and friends (19-24) have taken the same stance. They want to hustle but they cant for whatever limitation. They go to university to satisfy their parents and they fall down this hole they never wanted to be in. This age group has become in my view increasingly "lost" and doesnt really know what they want to do. They know what they want to have but dont know how to go about it. This is in Germany.

When I read how your parents want you to study, how you only have 1000$ saved up, how the business regulations are tough on startups and how you "thought" of starting some company might be the only way, I get the exact same VIBE from you too.
Yeah man, the lack of control at a job creates anxiety. I can't imagine getting fired and having to go back to my country lol. I think as long as you create enough value for the company you shouldn't have any problem, though.

Getting a master in USA really seems to be the "easiest" way. It kind of pisses me off cause I feel like I'm wasting $30-40k on a useless course just to be able to move in the USA. My current GPA is also very low so I should wake up and start putting more effort in my studies. I've read you can't enter an American university with a GPA lower than 3.0. I have a cumulative GPA of 2.18 right now but I still have 2 years left of the BSc so I'm quite sure I can increase it to 3.0 if I put all my effort into it.

Oh man, you have no idea lol. I asked 20-30 people at University "why did you pick this course? What do you want to do in 10 years?" and everyone replied with "I don't know, we'll see what happens". People nowadays can't plan long-term and believe things "will happen" by themselves. That's what I'm referring to as crab bucket mentality here in Italy. Everyone goes to college because everyone thinks that's the right thing to do, and nobody questions the status quo. Nobody.

I hate the university system in general. 100% theory 0% practice. It also depends what you are studying. But I'm 100% sure that even people who get out with top grades have no idea how to put all that stuff into practice. Universities can't teach you real world feedback. That's what I hate about the system. Having to study 3-5 years before I'm considered "ready" to go out in the real world. That's madness.
 
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Santi M

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Hey @VicFountain

I understand your situation, as I live in Sapin and we have similar cultures. I encourage you on your decision of moving to the U.S., it is certainly something that I always have in my mind and would like to try in the future.

But, I want to tell you a couple of things that I've been thinking on this matter.

1. Even though moving to a place like the States can be very helpful for your entrepreneurial venture, it is not the main thing, it is probably (at least in my case) an excuse on why you are not where you want to be. Think about it. There are no successful people in your country? Because here in Spain it is plenty. (Although they usually move to Andorra later, that's another story)

2. If you still want to move, which is understanding, why directly to the US? (Knowing the difficulty of it). I mean, if you're looking for a more entrepreneurial-minded place, maybe you could think of the UK, Switzerland, or any other country in Europe, easier to access now.

I hope this gives you some ideas.
 
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Hey @VicFountain

I understand your situation, as I live in Sapin and we have similar cultures. I encourage you on your decision of moving to the U.S., it is certainly something that I always have in my mind and would like to try in the future.

But, I want to tell you a couple of things that I've been thinking on this matter.

1. Even though moving to a place like the States can be very helpful for your entrepreneurial venture, it is not the main thing, it is probably (at least in my case) an excuse on why you are not where you want to be. Think about it. There are no successful people in your country? Because here in Spain it is plenty. (Although they usually move to Andorra later, that's another story)

2. If you still want to move, which is understanding, why directly to the US? (Knowing the difficulty of it). I mean, if you're looking for a more entrepreneurial-minded place, maybe you could think of the UK, Switzerland, or any other country in Europe, easier to access now.

I hope this gives you some ideas.
I'm quite sure Spain is already better than Italy. I've seen a lot of internet companies established in Spain who sell themselves as "Italian" companies. That makes me wonder.

I see what you mean. You are saying that all this thing I have is just a huge bias. I honestly doubt it's that way. There surely are business owners in Italy, but most businesses are oligopolies (or companies started in the early 1900) and the opportunity for small start ups is laughable.

I went to "entrepreneurship courses" in my University and all they could talk about was "raising funds" and I never heard somebody mention "create value" or innovate and solve problems. That just shows what's the average business mindset here.

There are a lot of Italians (even in this forum) who share my same sentiment, so I doubt this is a bias. This is more a fact than anything else.

I agree, on the other hand, about the "why the US?". That is a "bias" I have and a personal desire which I always had as I said in the beginning of the post. I didn't say the US is the only country good for entrepreneurs, but in its wholeness, in its entirety, it is for me. There are many factors that take place in my evaluations of a "good country" and the environment/success distribution is a huge factor for me.

Also it's crazy how many Italians leave the country. This explains a lot of things. I really feel like I'm in a jail and learned helplessness doesn't always help. That's why I'm making sure to get out of this situation asap.
 
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Kak

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I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.
LOL Yeah, I am not very happy with this place at the moment, but it is far better for a foreigner than it is for the citizens. A foreigner can just leave if they want without a bunch of drama, exit taxes, renunciation or foreign sourced income taxes. I would way rather live here as a Canadian or European than as an American.

That said, the US, is the biggest consumer economy in the world to access. It is also the most competitive.

Doesn't EU passport allow free travel and living anywhere in the EU? I am not super familiar with it. If this is the case, I would be looking at Ireland. I think I have heard Malta also has a lot of economic freedom.

I second @MTF recommendation of the Heritage Foundation's index of economic freedom. They look at more than just tax burden.
 
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Flint

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I might move in the UK and get a job [...]
[...]I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses)[...]
Keep this in mind (not that it's a showstopper, just another hoop to jump through):

"From 1 January 2021, free movement will end and the UK will introduce a points-based immigration system. The new system will treat EU and non-EU citizens equally and transform the way in which all migrants come to the UK to work. Anyone coming to the UK to work, excluding Irish citizens, will need to apply for permission in advance.

Under a points-based immigration system, anyone coming to the UK for work must meet a specific set of requirements for which they will score points. Visas are then awarded to those who gain enough points."


Source: The UK's points-based immigration system: an introduction for employers (accessible version)
 

WabiSabi

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Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.
 

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ryandoak

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Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.
Take this advice with a grain of salt.
 

WabiSabi

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Take this advice with a grain of salt.
This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.
 

Jon L

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I could be wrong about this, but I believe the US is in decline. There's still a ton of opportunity here, but its not the 'land of the free, home of the brave' that it once was. Regulation has increased, we're spending trillions freely that will have to be repaid. Mostly, though, we've stopped believing in ourselves. We have an education system that focuses almost exclusively on the negative portion of our history.

My daughter's principal said this as his main point in his kick-off email to parents, 'we begin this year with a Land Acknowledgment...[blathering about how mean we were to the native people]... The result was devastation and is a reminder of the truth that racial domination and institutional racism has defined our nation's history from the beginning.' He seriously said that. I copied and pasted.

Out of all the things he could chose to focus on at the start of a new school year, and he picked that? Granted, I live in the Seattle area. I doubt a principal would do that in Dallas.

ALL countries have bad things in their past, but if you start emphasizing the bad, and stop celebrating the good, some really bad things are going to happen. In a country with as much influence in the world at the United States, that's not a good development.

So ... I'm not trying to completely discourage you from coming here, and there are certainly pockets of positivity, but its not all peaches and cream either.
 

ryandoak

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This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.
That's understandable. But they're illegal immigrants
I could be wrong about this, but I believe the US is in decline. There's still a ton of opportunity here, but its not the 'land of the free, home of the brave' that it once was. Regulation has increased, we're spending trillions freely that will have to be repaid. Mostly, though, we've stopped believing in ourselves. We have an education system that focuses almost exclusively on the negative portion of our history.

My daughter's principal said this as his main point in his kick-off email to parents, 'we begin this year with a Land Acknowledgment...[blathering about how mean we were to the native people]... The result was devastation and is a reminder of the truth that racial domination and institutional racism has defined our nation's history from the beginning.' He seriously said that. I copied and pasted.

Out of all the things he could chose to focus on at the start of a new school year, and he picked that? Granted, I live in the Seattle area. I doubt a principal would do that in Dallas.

ALL countries have bad things in their past, but if you start emphasizing the bad, and stop celebrating the good, some really bad things are going to happen. In a country with as much influence in the world at the United States, that's not a good development.

So ... I'm not trying to completely discourage you from coming here, and there are certainly pockets of positivity, but its not all peaches and cream either.
These are the left-wing areas. Comparing Seattle to Fort Worth is almost like comparing Italy to UK. Very different culture.

And for the love of Christ, get out of Seattle. America isn't in decline, but Seattle definitely is.
 

Jon L

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This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.
I lived in California most of my life. The frustration with immigrants is this:

Decently large sections of California used to be beautiful, but now look like Tijuana, Mexico because millions of Mexicans have moved in, illegally, and have brought with them their third-world mentality. The small city where I lived used to be beautiful, but over the course of 20-30 years, you now have roadside stands with signs made of plywood and spray paint, houses that were brand new, remodeled, painted, now look like trash heaps. Most Mexicans are really good people, but, because they're poor, a larger percentage of them go into crime and gangs, which makes the entire city unsafe.

The recommendation to not go into low-skill, blue-collar jobs is a good one.
 
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Jon L

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That's understandable. But they're illegal immigrants


These are the left-wing areas. Comparing Seattle to Fort Worth is almost like comparing Italy to UK. Very different culture.

And for the love of Christ, get out of Seattle. America isn't in decline, but Seattle definitely is.
I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.
 

Knugs

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I'm quite sure Spain is already better than Italy. I've seen a lot of internet companies established in Spain who sell themselves as "Italian" companies. That makes me wonder.

I see what you mean. You are saying that all this thing I have is just a huge bias. I honestly doubt it's that way. There surely are business owners in Italy, but most businesses are oligopolies (or companies started in the early 1900) and the opportunity for small start ups is laughable.

I went to "entrepreneurship courses" in my University and all they could talk about was "raising funds" and I never heard somebody mention "create value" or innovate and solve problems. That just shows what's the average business mindset here.

There are a lot of Italians (even in this forum) who share my same sentiment, so I doubt this is a bias. This is more a fact than anything else.

I agree, on the other hand, about the "why the US?". That is a "bias" I have and a personal desire which I always had as I said in the beginning of the post. I didn't say the US is the only country good for entrepreneurs, but in its wholeness, in its entirety, it is for me. There are many factors that take place in my evaluations of a "good country" and the environment/success distribution is a huge factor for me.

Also it's crazy how many Italians leave the country. This explains a lot of things. I really feel like I'm in a jail and learned helplessness doesn't always help. That's why I'm making sure to get out of this situation asap.

Your issue is similar to the issue I have with Germany. Creating a business entity takes months, cash and a lot of effort. When we created our UG form, we had to have a notary to get our papers signed. The state took 3 months to send us our company number, the bank took a long time to get the papers to the notary. We even had investors lined up before so that when we decided to create our company in october, it took, no joke , until febraury to see investors cash in the accounts. And moving the investors cash was the easiest thing.

Sure, in the UK you can create a company whilst sitting on your sofa in less than 10 minutes and have the most important papers in 2 weeks.

Perhaps you should view all of this from a different angle.

Creating a business in some european countries is an barrier to ENTRY issue.
Once you created the entity, you benefit from that barrier greatly.
No client thought this was some kind of student basement project which meant that I was taken serious. This is not the case in the UK; I would never trust a ltd. more than a Gmbh.

I want to point out that I also suffer immensely under "the grass is greener on the other side". I Moved out to the UK at 16 and stayed there for 9 years before I returned. Sure, Germany has its problems but it also has some things that you unfortunately take for granted. And its exactly these things that you take for granted which you might not have in another country.

Such as freedom, healthcare, social support, quality of life, food quality, freedom of expression etc.
 

mon_fi

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Honestly, it is trading an extreme for another, especially now. Your passport enables you to live and work in 27 countries visa-free, why don't you just go to an entrepreneurial EU country? Try the Netherlands, it is full of Italians that ran away due to extreme bureaucracy. I, for example, recently moved to Poland (I'm from Belgium). Eastern and Central Europe are surprisingly hyper open to business and living and hiring cost is cheap. It is super easy to create companies and products which you can sell at a much cheaper price than if they were made in Denmark or Belgium, for example.

Stay in Europe (please). We need people like you to create value here. Don't participate to the brain drain. Also don't forget that the more problems a place has, the more solutions there are to be found and hence money to be made.

There is no entrepreneurship in perfect places. Don't like where you're living? Great, fix it. And make money doing so.


That being said, to answer your question, I suggest to study something there then to find a job while you are there. That's what my cousin did and now he lives there. Alternatively, you can always get married.
 

ryandoak

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I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.
They don't dominate. They're a vocal minority. Bernie only had a chance because every other candidate was horrible. And despite that, he still lost to a demented moron.

The country isn't declining. The people on the right just aren't as vocal.
 

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