Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

[Devilery]

Hey guys, I'm looking at switching over to a plan-based diet (probably vegetarian) and I'm putting together a meal plan. I asked GPT for help, but wanted to get some input on what you all eat on a daily basis.

I'm trying to meet the following criteria:

• 3000 calories
• 200g protein/day
• 35g or less of saturated fat/day
• 25 or less added sugar/day
• Minimally processed foods

I also want to get at least 45g of fiber, but this isn't even really something I need to track if eating plant-based. The fiber is actually an issue for me, because too much wreaks havoc on my stomach. With 3000 calories a day, I'll me getting a ton of fiber. Do any of you have an issue with this too?

Anyway, this is the meal plan that GPT gave me based on my criteria. Apparently this has 92g of fiber

There are some other foods I would eat too like Kimchi and popcorn. Also not really a fan of eating the bread for breakfast. Any thoughts?



Breakfast: Protein-Packed Avocado Toast with Poached Eggs

• 2 slices of whole-grain bread
• 1 medium avocado, mashed
• 3 poached eggs
• 1 cup of spinach (sautéed with a touch of olive oil)
• 1 medium orange

Snack 1: High-Protein Greek Yogurt Parfait

• 1.5 cups of Greek yogurt
• 1/2 cup of mixed berries (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries)
• 1.5 tablespoons of chia seeds
• 1.5 tablespoons of chopped nuts (almonds or walnuts)

Lunch: Protein-Packed Quinoa Salad with Chickpeas and Veggies

• 1.5 cups cooked quinoa
• 3/4 cup chickpeas (canned, rinsed and drained)
• 1.5 cups cherry tomatoes, halved
• 1 cucumber, diced
• 1/3 cup feta cheese, crumbled
• Olive oil and lemon dressing
• 1 medium apple

Snack 2: Protein-Packed Hummus and Vegetable Sticks

• 3 tablespoons of hummus
• 1.5 cups mixed vegetable sticks (carrots, cucumber, bell peppers)

Dinner: High-Protein Lentil and Vegetable Stir-Fry

• 1.5 cups cooked lentils
• Mixed vegetables (broccoli, bell peppers, snap peas) stir-fried with tofu or tempeh
• 1.5 cups cooked brown rice
• 1.5 tablespoons sesame oil for stir-frying
• Side of steamed kale or spinach
• 1 medium pear

Snack 3: Protein-Packed Smoothie Bowl

• 1.5 cups frozen mixed berries
• 1.5 bananas
• 1.5 cups spinach
• 1.5 cups almond milk
• Toppings: 1.5 tablespoons chia seeds, 1.5 tablespoons shredded coconut, a handful of sliced almonds

I'm a vegan aiming for 4000 calories and 200g of protein. I've tried all kinds of variations, but honestly, life gets so much easier if you eat some processed foods - tofu, plant-based patties, and protein powder. I don't get why it's not the first recommendation when it comes to protein, get a good vegan protein powder (needs multiple protein sources for a full amino-acid profile). Aim for 30-40g of protein per meal and drink 1-2 protein shakes a day. If you're struggling to get enough calories in (ChatGPT seems to have suggested 80% veggies and fruits), turn your protein shake into a smoothie - grounded oats, peanut butter, and bananas.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

I'm a vegan aiming for 4000 calories and 200g of protein. I've tried all kinds of variations, but honestly, life gets so much easier if you eat some processed foods - tofu, plant-based patties, and protein powder. I don't get why it's not the first recommendation when it comes to protein, get a good vegan protein powder (needs multiple protein sources for a full amino-acid profile). Aim for 30-40g of protein per meal and drink 1-2 protein shakes a day. If you're struggling to get enough calories in (ChatGPT seems to have suggested 80% veggies and fruits), turn your protein shake into a smoothie - grounded oats, peanut butter, and bananas.

Getting 200 grams of protein with FOUR FREAKING THOUSAND calories is ridiculously easy with regular food. You can eat whatever and you'll still get there. 300 grams of lentils is already 75 grams of protein and that's just 1000 calories.

But losing weight (even with a small deficit on 2000 calories) and still keeping protein high as a vegan is F*cking hard and anyone who says it's easy is delusional. Protein powder, protein bars, or low-calorie soy products (like tofu or tempeh) become a necessity.

 

[Devilery]

Getting 200 grams of protein with FOUR FREAKING THOUSAND calories is ridiculously easy with regular food. You can eat whatever and you'll still get there. 300 grams of lentils is already 75 grams of protein and that's just 1000 calories.

But losing weight (even with a small deficit on 2000 calories) and still keeping protein high as a vegan is F*cking hard and anyone who says it's easy is delusional. Protein powder, protein bars, or low-calorie soy products (like tofu or tempeh) become a necessity.

I don't disagree, but 300g of lentils is quite a lot and only a third of the needed amount. My point was - to embrace the innovation and eat vegan "meats".

Cutting as a vegan is just as hard as on any other diet. Switch grains with legumes (still decent for carbs but higher protein, e.g. instead of rice with beans, just eat double the beans), and eat easy proteins like protein powder, tofu, and vegan "meats", and a ton of vegetables and fruits on top.

Now, if you're against soy, that's a different topic, then it really is difficult. I'd personally rather cut, I find it much easier than being consistent with 4000 calories daily.

 

[Dome]

Now, if you're against soy, that's a different topic, then it really is difficult. I'd personally rather cut, I find it much easier than being consistent with 4000 calories daily.

Sweet Lupines are a great alternative to soy. Up to 40g protein in 100g, ~10g fat, up to 15g carbs. In Europe they are common and cheap(~4 € for one kilogram). But always check the nutritions there are many different sorts, currently I have one sort with 36-40% protein, 10-15% carbs, 6-8% fat and 30-35% fiber. 275 Kcal for 100g.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tiago]

I don't listen to mathematicians for health advice.

I listen to guys like this who have PhD's and zero bias...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD8reCw3Kls

(If you want to truly be educated on the benefits of plant-based eating, why not listen to someone who actually has scientific experience in it? Spend 10 hours in that channel and you'll learn more than Taleb will ever teach you about health. And BTW, this doctor was not vegetarian (or vegan) up until recently.)

... Sinclair studied longevity for 25+ years at Harvard and MIT with a real education, not some YT rando... Guys like this who makes decisions based on rigorous studies and actual peer reviewed data... as he says, when determining the data on various diets for health and longevity, "the data is the data" and a plant-based diet is best for longevity.

So I don't care what Mr. Taleb thinks, or speculates.

I've conducted my own diligence which what amounts to about arround 400+ hours of research, not to mention my own blood bio-markers.

The YT channel I cited explains that body stresses are good for longevity (such as cold showers, heat exposure, fasting, etc.) So your theory that plants expose us to mild-toxins that strengthen the body makes some sort of intuitive sense that body stressors can be good.



Yes, it's hard to convince a twenty-something that this stuff matters when their body can withstand the onslaught of the standard American diet (SAD), at least until they hit their 30s.

However, I hope when you reach my age, you change your limiting belief that eating plant-based is extreme. I find the mass production and slaughtering of animals "extreme". I find having disease, aches, and pains that start at age 35 and continue until you die (the current expectation of culture) is extreme.

Culture, religion, and tradition are the ultimate brain-washers as it wires in a SCRIPT, defaulting to standard orthodoxies for thinking, to the point that no thinking is done, and anything "outside the box" is dismissed reflexively. Gee, maybe I should write a book called UNSCRIPTED ? Lol.

I love David Sinclair and his book was great.

But one thing that always confuses me is protein intake. Peter Attia mentions that low protein intake might aid in sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass as you age), and low muscle mass is one of the highest predictors of all-cause mortality.

Then on the other hand, David Sinclair advocates for low protein diet, as high protein intake has been linked with high mTor and inflammation.

What are your thoughts on this @MJ DeMarco?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

And I actually think you make some great points by the way - notably the carnivore diet being a fad.

Moving away from debate, what was the diet that you followed in your 30s/40s that you said led to bad health?

Paleo, but by today's standards it would be more so the carnivore diet as it was mostly meat. I eliminated cows milk from my life over 25 years ago however.

Then on the other hand, David Sinclair advocates for low protein diet, as high protein intake has been linked with high mTor and inflammation.

What are your thoughts on this @MJ DeMarco?

I agree that high protein is aging due to mTor and inflammation. I lived that for 15 years.

Now I stay in the middle and based on my experience, a high protein diet aged me a lot faster than I care to admit.

I increase my protein intake the day of, and after I strength train.

 

[Jon822]

Personally, I think daily protein requirements are overblown. I have never tracked my protein intake and do just fine in strength progress. Don't quote me on this because I'm pulling it from memory and I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I also remember reading that protein shakes (even vegan ones) are correlated with kidney damage and kidney cancer.

The only caveat to the protein requirement is that if you're trying to become Mr. Olympia, then the recommended daily amount may be accurate.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

I don't disagree, but 300g of lentils is quite a lot and only a third of the needed amount. My point was - to embrace the innovation and eat vegan "meats".

It's not a lot, or at least not for me. Add some beans, tofu or tempeh and you're already at 125 grams protein or more and barely 50% into your daily caloric intake. Meanwhile on a 2000 calories diet you're already out of calories and have barely eaten anything outside of protein.

Cutting as a vegan is just as hard as on any other diet.

Not from my experience. Cutting is way easier even on a vegetarian diet. With low-fat dairy, it's extremely easy to get sufficient protein even on 1500 calories a day. I find it almost impossible on 2000 calories without drinking huge protein shakes or eating almost exclusively soy.

Now, if you're against soy, that's a different topic, then it really is difficult.

I'm not against it but unless I eat protein powder or bars, I rely too much on soy.

I'd personally rather cut, I find it much easier than being consistent with 4000 calories daily.

Yeah I never understood it. I find eating a lot ridiculously easy and can't believe people have trouble with that. What I find extremely hard is eating less because deliberately reducing your calories for months feels unnatural.

 

[MTF]

Personally, I think daily protein requirements are overblown. I have never tracked my protein intake and do just fine in strength progress. Don't quote me on this because I'm pulling it from memory and I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I also remember reading that protein shakes (even vegan ones) are correlated with kidney damage and kidney cancer.

The only caveat to the protein requirement is that if you're trying to become Mr. Olympia, then the recommended daily amount may be accurate.

Are you muscular though?

Daily protein requirements are very easy to meet for an average person but for proper strength training they're hard.

 

[mikecarlooch]

Paleo, but by today's standards it would be more so the carnivore diet as it was mostly meat. I eliminated cows milk from my life over 25 years ago however.

Ah I see. Paleo by my standards is the following:

Vegetables
Nuts
Potatoes
Basmati Rice
Wild Caught Fish (Salmon is my choice usually. Tuna and fishes like that have lots of mercury)
Organic Pasture Raised Eggs (Cage-Free is a scam)
85/15 Organic Grass Fed Ground Beef (If it is not grass fed or organic, it's likely not a healthy animal, therefore I won't eat it)
Fruit
Raw Honey

All organic of course, because anything that is not organic in my opinion is just a way to say "Genetically Modified" and organic is a way to say "Not Genetically Motified". Non-organic fruits & vegetables especially are full of pesticides.

I too avoid dairy, as pasteurization destroys your gut. Sometimes I will opt for raw cheeses (raw milk is banned in my state)

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jon822]

Are you muscular though?

Daily protein requirements are very easy to meet for an average person but for proper strength training they're hard.

By most peoples' standards, probably not. But I have no interest in attempting to become Mr. Olympia and will always choose longevity over anything else.

 

[MTF]

By most peoples' standards, probably not. But I have no interest in attempting to become Mr. Olympia and will always choose longevity over anything else.

F*ck you're jacked! And you say that you aren't muscular lol. Man you look F*cking good. I wish I'd looked even half as as good. I'd be embarrassed to change if I were in the same locker room with you.

Do you have any idea how much protein you get? Are you 100% vegan? What do you usually eat?

 

[Jon822]

F*ck you're jacked! And you say that you aren't muscular lol. Man you look F*cking good. I wish I'd looked even half as as good. I'd be embarrassed to change if I were in the same locker room with you.

You're being way too kind lol But that was part of my point, though. I couldn't even give you a guess as to how much protein I consume on any given day because I couldn't care less. I think tracking macros makes something simple like eating too complicated but maybe I'm just lazy lol

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

You're being way too kind lol But that was part of my point, though. I couldn't even give you a guess as to how much protein I consume on any given day because I couldn't care less. I think tracking macros makes something simple like eating too complicated but maybe I'm just lazy lol

Yeah I just edited my post to ask about your diet. It's crazy that you don't track it. What kind of training do you do?

 

[Jon822]

Yeah I just edited my post to ask about your diet. It's crazy that you don't track it. What kind of training do you do?

Full body routines. Protein synthesis only occurs for up to 48 hours so the typical "bro split" leaves gains on the table. I only do 5 exercises:

Bench press, overhead press, weighted pull-ups, upright rows, and squats.

My diet is mostly just whatever I feel like eating: oats, beans, rice, fruit, vegetables.

 

[Spenny]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.



Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jon822]

Great books that were recommended

I would highly recommend the book Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell Esselstyn.

Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.

Not only are these not true (cooked carbohydrates have been proven to be the evolutionary advantage that allowed us to grow larger brains than other primates), but even if it was, it wouldn't matter. Why would you eat food that is scientifically proven to slowly kill you just because our ancestors did? They also didn't know about genetics or microorganisms - should we throw that information out too?

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Don't beat yourself up too hard. The food pyramid is bought and paid for by the companies selling the products. Just be glad you're here now rather than later. Glad to have you on board

"Where do you get your protein from?"
From the source of all protein.

 

[KJFast]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.

View attachment 54162

Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

Glad you’ve discovered the plant based path bro! This is another argument for plant based that’s a slightly spiritual but really makes sense.

If you believe in energy, which if you don’t well don’t bother reading more, the food you eat has energy attached to it. If you’re eating death, you’re eating one of the lowest energy foods that lowers your vibration

 

[Spenny]

If you believe in energy, which if you don’t well don’t bother reading more, the food you eat has energy attached to it. If you’re eating death, you’re consuming one of the lowest-energy foods that lower your vibration

I do somewhat believe it, but I think it manifests as subtle things other animals, humans included, pick up.

I've always found it interesting how people can see emotion through the eye. I believe that It's the subtle and small muscles that surround the face that give us our impression.

Our demeanour, skin healthiness, posture, and the way we carry ourselves all have an influence. Funny enough, if you clog your body up with garbage, you will look like garbage.

I'm just happier because I can look at animals and not feel guilty that I'm killing them for my pleasure.

Don't beat yourself up too hard. The food pyramid is bought and paid for by the companies selling the products. Just be glad you're here now rather than later. So happy to have you on board

"Where do you get your protein from?"
From the source of all protein.

Thank you. I don't beat myself up because I wasn't aware as much as I am now; it would bother me if I continued my actions without changing a thing.

The "Where do you get your protein from?" is such a funny phrase. Different people regurgitate the same hogwash.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MakeItHappen]

Great write-up @Spenny

 

[Jon822]

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.

View attachment 54162

Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

Impressive.

Amazing how your story was very similar to mine which involved throwing a spider outside (instead of killing it) while eating a chicken sandwich. That led me down the rabbit hole which involved exposing my own lies and duplicity.

I read your post to my wife and she was brought to tears. And she was impressed that such a young man can see through the dogmatic programming involved in such a topic.

Having compassion for sentient beings who feel emotions such as fear and joy is not extremism.

I'm just happier because I can look at animals and not feel guilty that I'm killing them for my pleasure.

The best thing I did for my spiritual life was to stop contributing to the slaughter of innocent beings. I've never felt closer to "God" or whomever is running the show. And this spiritual peace includes my dismissal of any organized religion over 10 years ago, religions consecrated by humans, the same humans who think enslavement and murder of entire species is OK, while they hypocritically preach about other matters... don't get me started there.

Anyhow, you've chosen to navigate life carrying the TWO HARDEST stances to uphold...

1) Being an entrepreneur in an EMPLOYEE world

and

2) Eating plant-based in a MEAT world.

Both traditions are like stepping away from two religions you were born into.

If you can do that at 20-something, you can do ANYTHING.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ZackerySprague]

I have seen videos of Pigs, cows, and chickens at slaughter houses. I have seen some pigs and animals literally cry or have tears in their eyes. Though I have not made the transition to Vegan. I can sense/feel how they are sad because they know what's coming.

It's something you can't go back or unsee. I love my cats, I know they have feelings. Meepoo my oldest was having a bit of an attitude yesterday. I had to calm down two of my boys. My cats are my family, and I'll do everything I can to keep them.

I wish there could be something we can do, it does hurt my heart to know that these creatures who also have feelings can't live a full life.

 

[Jon822]

Though I have not made the transition to Vegan.

I wish there could be something we can do, it does hurt my heart to know that these creatures who also have feelings can't live a full life.

So then why not stop consuming the products that encourage it?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I wish there could be something we can do

There is, you stop eating them. Be part of removing the financial incentive.

Everything else you're telling yourself is a lie. It was the same lie I told myself for 20 years.

As Gandhi said, "Be the change you want in the world."

If you're not willing to do it yourself, why expect anyone else to do it for you?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Spenny]

Please do realise this is not targeted at you, Zackery; I generally say many of these things. I hate how I look like a rabid SJW responding to this. We have a long way to go.

I can sense/feel how they are sad because they know what's coming.

They're not sad. They're fighting to stay alive. They want to live; they feel fear.


Here is a comparison.
The left photo is from a concentration camp. The right image is an egg-laying farm.
The left side has sentient beings with feelings; the right side has sentient beings with feelings.
The left side is held against their will; the right side is held against their will.
The left side is crammed in squalid conditions; the right side is crammed in squalid conditions.

They are far too similar. I'm compassionate to both.

They have machines called gas chambers to add salt to the wound.

I wish there could be something we can do, it does hurt my heart to know that these creatures who also have feelings can't live a full life.

So hey, let's pack up shop and go home. There's nothing we can do.

• The suffragettes didn't say that.
• Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks didn't say that.
• The allied soldiers on the beaches of Normandy and Okinawa didn't say that.

Take those dollars and buy stuff that doesn't contribute to acts that are akin to ISIS beheadings—money talks.

• You can get enough protein.
• You're not eating leaves as a diet.
• You're not less of a man.

This is perpetuated crap—script dribble. People who have never met each other will regurgitate the same things. We have to wake up and smell the syrup.

But most will read this and go, "Meh, but it tastes good", or "It's not that bad". You haven't watched Dominion. We need to dig deeper.

 

[ZackerySprague]

I believe I did not write out that post correctly. Thanks, Spenny. I take back what I have said. I'll look into some Vegan recipes.

Just saw the video of Dominion. I couldn't keep watching that's horrible... First reaction "Oh F*ck." That's cruel.

I know you're not targeting me Spenny. It's all good. You're sharing your thoughts, I didn't write out the post correctly.

When I wrote "I wish there is something we can do that about.". I meant it at a Global Level. I didn't know you guys were talking about the individual level and that didn't come to mind at the time of the posting.

 

[Subsonic]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.

View attachment 54162

Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

Reading this broke me.


I "tried" going vegan, and I was always certain after reading this thread that I was going to go at least vegetarian eventually in a few years.

Why then, not now ?

Recently, I did some experiments with horses as part of biology class. Hugo, Váldes and Little were their names. Every single one of them was a precious goofball, and teaching them tricks was amazing. Standing in the stable and then feeling Hugo the 1000 Pound Stallion try to sneakily eat the carrots I had in my jacket was indescribable.
They aren't all that different from cows, of which I've eaten several in the last year.

Right now, as I am writing this out, my brain tries to find reasons why I need to stop writing.
"Go read a book, you haven't read today"
"It's not the time right now to make big changes"
"You will suffer now if you don't close your eyes to reality"

Man, I love animals.
How can I eat kilos of meat every week ?

I don't have the guts to click on dominion because I know what I will see there...

This feels like choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea. Like in the matrix with the blue and red pills.
Both options are "bad".
On one hand I can continue to support a nation of mini hittlers that all make money with mini auschwitzes that are state supported.
Or I can take the red pill and make the hardest choice of my life.

But well, is it ?
I quit sugar.
I quit alcohol.
I quit pmo.
I quit watching YouTube.
I quit F*cking bread, alright (the white sugared crap that is).
Why is it so hard to cut out some stupid part of my diet ?



After a brief conversation with my mom, I had the epiphany:

It's not that hard.

How did that come to be ?
Basically, the conversation went like this:

Mom: "Darling, why are you looking so down?"

Subsonic, who is questioning his life: "I can't eat meat anymore."

Mom:"Why?"

Subsonic:" 'Reads out post' "

Mom:"Stop being such a pussy and pretending that it's hard. I barely eat any meat, and it's no harder than cutting out sugar."

Subsonic: "..."


Yep, so now after sitting on this post for a whole day, it's done. I am a vegetarian now.

Now I need some good meals to eat that do not involve meat.



Thanks for the post.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Spenny]

I couldn't keep watching that's horrible... First reaction "Oh F*ck." That's cruel.

It would be best if you kept watching. Pay some respects to at least knowing where your food comes from. You owe it to the animals you buy.

I forced myself for another hour. I'm going to watch the rest in the coming days.

 

[heavy_industry]

I can sense/feel how they are sad because they know what's coming.

"Sad" is too little of a word to describe the unspeakable horror an animal experiences under the diabolical circumstances of factory farming.

This is the closest thing that resembles HELL that we were capable of bringing here on earth. It's not too far from the atrocities we've done in the past century - and in some cases, I would say it's even worse.

The only reason why factory farming is still legal and widely practiced is because the general public is blindly unaware of the heinous crimes being committed over there - false imprisonment, torture, and mass murder.

Educating the masses is the only way to stop factory farming.

---

I am not a vegan myself, but I wholeheartedly support the mission of stopping unnecessary animal cruelty.

Killing an animal is still killing an animal. And some would argue that there is no "humane" way of doing it.

But I think everything is on a spectrum, and there is a huge difference between raising cows with love in a traditional family ranch where they live the best life possible vs. committing unspeakable acts of violence and mass murder in a modern concentration camp.