Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

[MJ DeMarco]

If you want to discuss VEGAN opportunities created by the movement toward veganism, please visit this thread.

The Opportunity of Veganism / Vegan Opps

This thread is to discuss the lifestyle itself for those interested.

This is NOT a thread to discuss your world-view on meat or veganism.

Please note: I steered clear of the word "diet" because most vegans do not look at this lifestyle as a diet, but more of a life long choice.

I just fear that knowing my diet I will consume the fake meat 2x a day

Again, your cravings for the fake meat (and meat in general) should subside over time.

I have to tell myself that the point of being Vegan is to adopt a plant-based diet, not a meat replacement diet.

I'm at the point now where some meat is starting to gross me out.

Now the cheese, that's a whole other story!

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zones is a great watch on Netflix as it examines healthy people in their 80s, 90s, and 100s, from areas around the world with high concentrations of centenarians.

Watching had me in awe at some of activities these people were undertaking while being 95 years old, and they all looked 20 years younger.

Here are the commonalities:

Exercise: All the people moved regularly in their life, whether it's walking to church, walking up 4 flights of stairs, outdoor gardening, swimming, etc. In other words, these people don't have gym memberships, they simply are moving a good part of the day in a low impact way. No one was sitting at a desk 10 hours a day.

Diet: All of them eat plant-based, even high carb (but quality carbs with fiber). Meat/dairy, if any, represents less than 5% of their diet. Sorry bros, no mention of KETO/CARNIVORE. Not one person who is still thriving in their 90s+ mentioned meat or dairy, and listening to 28 year olds about the benefits of such a diet is laughable.

Meaning and Purpose: All these old people in varying parts of the planet NEVER LOST their sense of purpose. Each one had a powerful spiritual reason to live, not just limited to religion.

Community: All of the people had strong family and community bonds, a circle of friends that they met with, or played with regularly. Also includes church activities, not religion specific.

Sun: One other factor that wasn't specifically highlighted, but was common, was all the centenarians lived in an area that received a lot of sunshine, nutritionally speaking, this could be related to Vitamin D.

The areas examined at:
Okinawa, Japan
Sardinia, Italy (part of the island)
Nicoya, Costa Rica
Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists who are vegetarian + religion)
Ikaria, Greece

I decided not to put this summary out in the main part of the forum (where some might find it interesting) and limited it to this thread because the plant-based fact in this examination will be triggering to most. Alluding that a first-world person should eat plant-based is like trying to convince a communist the benefits of capitalism. I'll pass.

Anyway...

I'll leave you with this...

Everyone here is trying to improve the quality of their life, and much of that life will occur as an older person.

Wealth and freedom means nothing if you can't enjoy it due to disease and debilitation.

In America, most people my age are already on 5 medications and can't walk a flight of stairs.

My goal is to be as active as I am today (53) when I'm 80.

 

[MTF]

I had an extensive medical check-up at a private clinic done today, the first such check-up in my life. Among dozens of other things, my doctor checked my arteries.

He said that I have the arteries of a newborn, not of an adult. He took pictures of my arteries and asked how long I've been meat-free since he wanted to show the pictures to his colleagues. He told me my arteries are so clean they inspire him to switch to plants. That's how rare it is to not have clogged arteries even at the relatively young age of 33.

I was vegetarian between 17 (I think, perhaps 16 or 18) and 30 and have been vegan since I was 30 (it'll be three years this August).

If that's not a testimony to the health benefits of a plant-based diet, then I don't know what is.

 

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[amp0193]

I just finished reading a great book: Healthy at 100 by John Robbins.

Basically, it looks at 4 cultures who have unusually healthy very-old people, and goes into why they are so healthy. The bulk of the book is about diet and physical habits. The back third is on social and spiritual.

In these cultures, there is virtually no:

Cancer, disease, sickness, heart disease, diabetes, dementia, alzheimers, overweight people, or loss of strength or activity into old age (90s+)


99% of the diet of these people are raw, uncooked plants (okinawans are 90%, because they eat more fish).

They walk up and down mountains every day. They walk everywhere, all day.

They are more fit at 80 than most of us are now.


I've dabbled with vegetarianism in the past, as my wife is one, but this book made me jump head first into the pool.


Changes I made:

This week I cut out: Sugar, enriched wheat products, and meat.

The biggest addition to the diet was a huge salad for lunch every day. Replaced all the snacks I felt like eating with pieces of fruit or vegetable, or maybe some sunflower seeds. Cooked a really awesome veggie dinner with rice.


I cut out High Fructose Corn Syrup years ago, and have been decreasing my "sweet stuff" intake over the last year, so my sugar intake was already much lower than average. However I still noticed some slight withdrawal symptoms from cutting it completely.


Physically, I'm not sure I can tell a difference yet in energy or anything. Mentally, I feel great, because I know I'm putting GOOD stuff in my body. One thing I did notice, was that after eating lots of leafy greens, a tomato tastes unbelievably amazing. Even raw carrots taste really sweet now. I'm learning that it's possible to re-program our perceptions of what is sweet and delicious.


I also set up a desk and mounted it on top of my treadmill. Anytime I am on the computer, I am walking. I walked like 8 miles on Wednesday. Sit and get old, or walk and be fit? Seems like an easy choice.

This walking is in addition to my rock climbing and weight stuff that I already do.


It doesn't matter to me if it's not the most tasty stuff I'm eating, what matters to me is that I'm going to be kicking a$$ at 100.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Interesting side note...

Had a talk with a pharmacy tech and asked what the most prescribed medications were...

4 of 5 medications are related to people eating like shit.

 

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[Spenny]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.



Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

 

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[Fox]

I know not to post about Religion so I added this from an only diet perspective. Both my parents are Seventh Day Adventists...

Members Of This Religion Live 10 Years Longer Than Most Americans

Adventist Health Studies - Wikipedia

Basically their life expectancy (as a group) is way higher than normal. Apart from genetics and environment, it is one of the best variables for living a long life. Of course there are people in that religion who don't follow the guidelines with diet but those who do are insanely healthy.

My dad was a huge drinker when he was younger and joined when he was around 34. He has a younger brother who didn't change his habits (still drinking) and the difference at 65 is massive. My dad looks better than me with really clear skin and amazing energy. Up at 5am and doesn't go to bed till around midnight. I catch him napping the odd time but he is very, very healthy.

You can read up on their diet but its dairy, meat, and seafood free. Also no alcohol, stimulants, or sugar. Plenty of water and the odd fasting too.

If anyone has any questions about it let me know but if you are serious about health its a diet I highly recommend.

 

[MTF]

Thanks for sharing MTF. That's very inspiring. What kind of plant-based foods do you eat? Is there any fake-meat etc involved as well?

My diet changes depending on the season and where I am (as that affects access to certain foods) but my staples usually are:

• Fruits - I'm not sure if it's that great but I love fruits above everything else and probably eat too much of them (I should get my blood test results this week so I'll know what my blood sugar levels are like). When available, I eat tons of blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, and other berries and cherries plus dragonfruits, mangoes and papayas if I have access to high-quality ones. Other than that, fruit-wise I mostly eat bananas, grapes, and apples plus avocados in salads and sandwiches.
• Legumes - beans and lentils, primarily red kidney beans, chickpeas, and beluga lentils. I guess falafel and hummus also belong to this category. This also includes lentil and chickpea flour.
• Soy - tempeh (my favorite, plus since it's fermented, it's healthier than regular soy), tofu (smoked preferably, the regular one doesn't taste great), textured vegetable protein (that's dried defatted soy so tons of protein with very few calories), and unsweetened oil-free soy milk for smoothies. It's been a while (a few months already) but I also used to regularly eat soy-based yogurts with clean ingredients.
• Vegetables - depends on what's available but my staples are broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, zucchini, bell peppers, carrots, tomatoes, cucumbers, radish, red onions, chives, olives, sprouts, micro greens, and salad greens (I make huge salads with vegetables and beans). I also like asparagus and all kinds of peas (green, yellow, long, short, whatever).
• Mushrooms - primarily regular white mushrooms and chanterelles in season. Otherwise I'm not a huge fan of mushrooms.
• Nuts and seeds - these I try to limit but it's hard. I primarily eat peanuts in the form of peanut butter (usually added to smoothies), cashew nuts, walnuts, pecans, Brazil nuts, and pistachios but I also eat almonds, macadamia nuts, hazelnuts, etc. I also add pumpkin and sunflower seeds to my salads.
• Oils - only coconut oil and olive oil.
• Superfoods, spices etc. - I add tons of different things to my smoothies, from flax, chia, and hemp seeds to maca, spirulina, chlorella, camu camu, and cacao. I also use various spices and herbs but mostly salt, pepper, smoked paprika, curry, garlic powder and a mix of Italian herbs plus soy sauce. I also sprinkle a ton of nutritional yeast on my veggies.
• Sweeteners - I use date syrup only (which is just dates and water) or dates.
• Protein powders - I only consume 100% rice protein and pea protein with zero additives and/or sweeteners.
• Carbs - I try to limit carbs not necessarily because I'm a low carb believer but because I don't like the crash that comes after them, particularly for me after rice. I sometimes eat quinoa. If I eat less healthy carbs, it's usually bread (but high-quality European one, not the crap people call bread in other countries lol). If I eat pasta, it's pretty much always vegetable pasta (100% chickpea pasta is great) but if it's traditional, it'll be whole wheat pasta. I used to eat potatoes, sweet potatoes and oats quite often but these days I eat them rarely as I don't digest them well.

I do sometimes eat out but will usually pick stuff highest in protein and with the lowest risk of added sugar and/or seed oils. I also primarily go to vegan restaurants that serve healthy food. I don't consume:

• Seed oils. Rapeseed oil or sunflower oil goes into almost everything vegan, which is why I don't eat these vegan alternatives.
• Shitty fake meat like Impossible burgers. If you consider all kinds of soy products fake meat, then I do eat soy products as mentioned but they aren't highly processed. I don't like the taste of fast food vegan stuff and don't go to restaurants that serve it (stuff like vegan sausages, ham, etc.).
• Most regular sweets and snacks. Usually if I eat stuff like chocolate it's at least 70% but most often I eat 100% dark chocolate (pure stuff only for hardcore people haha).
• Sugary drinks and soda - I do drink pure carrot juice regularly which is probably not great but as far as I know doesn't have as much fructose as fruit juices. I'm trying not to drink fruit juices at all as I used to drink them relatively often (pure 100% juices, mostly orange and apple, but still not great for you).
• Most vegan alternatives like vegan cheese, yogurt, butter, eggs, fish, milk (except for pure soy milk), etc. I sometimes eat vegan cheese made with coconut oil (it has clean ingredients but doesn't offer much nutrition) but it's very rare these days.
• Caffeine. I never liked coffee and stopped drinking tea a few years ago. I sometimes have peppermint tea which is caffeine-free as it's a herbal tea.
• Alcohol/drugs/nicotine. I've never had any alcohol, drugs, or nicotine.

Wow that took me a long time to write but I hope it'll help someone. Overall, I'm a freak when it comes to reading labels. I put down approximately 99% of packaged stuff right after looking at the ingredients. My biggest diet problem is eating too much. Because even if you eat healthy stuff, you can still gain weight. And you won't believe the amounts I can consume. Hence, in the last few weeks I've really focused on eating lots of protein (aiming for at least 100-150 grams a day) as that does help me feel more satiated.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This guy is 59 and looks and moves as if he's in his twenties.

Things like this no longer surprise me.

For me...

Acid reflux in my 30s, gone in my 50s.
Fibromyalgia in my 30s, gone in my 50s.
High cholesterol in my 30s, gone in my 50s.
GOUT in my 30s, gone in my 50s.
CIBO in my 30s, gone in my 50s.
A dozen yearly doctor visits in my 30s, one doctor visit in my 50s.

And then there's this...

In my early 40s, I had 3 orthopedic surgeries to fix old weight-lifting injuries (both shoulders, 1 elbow) and even after surgery, they never completely healed.

In short, for the next 5 years, my weight-lifting protocol was never the same and would always be interrupted by joint weakness, irritations, and various other "structural" pains. For example, I couldn't do wide grip pull-ups due to elbow issues. The muscles could, the elbows and shoulders couldn't.

It was lift very light, or don't lift at all.

Today, after 5+ years of eating entirely plant-based, those injuries have finally healed and I can now weight lift again like I did in my early 30s. Recovery is super-fast and I don't feel limited any longer.

More interestingly-- which makes no sense-- I find it easier to gain muscle than I did back in my 30s. I don't think my testosterone levels would be as high (or higher) in my 50s than my 30s. I expect I'm just more efficient at muscle building now with less inflammation present.

I also can now do wide grip pull-ups, something I haven't done in nearly 15 years. I'm willing to bet 98% of men who are my age can't do ONE pull-up or push up, much less wide grip.

I never thought in a million years that I would feel this good at this age, especially considering what I dealt with 20 years ago.

The other day I looked in the mirror shirtless after a workout and didn't recognize myself.

One day perhaps, I'll be bold enough to post a picture here.

Can you give me some examples

Can you please point out what invalidates them?

No and no. And it wouldn't matter anyway.

This isn't a thread to debate a plant-based diet and he has been removed from the thread since he couldn't resist adding his opinion, when no one asked for it, and I SPECIFICALLY noted this thread wasn't for it.

I don't see any of us peppering the carnivore thread with our opinions or questioning their decisions. No, it's not my job to walk into their little party and be adversarial. It's not my job to walk into a Christian church and tell everyone they’re nuts.

But funny how we need to defend and entertain that bull-shit here.

Again, not doing it.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Cheese or dairy is for many people the last thing to go. I personally didn't have a problem with it but I saw how difficult it was for my mother even after being convinced that she didn't want to consume any cheese out of health and ethical reasons.

The probable reason is that milk contains a form of morphine which incentivizes calves to come back and drink more. People are quite literally addicted and like any addiction, it takes some time to get over it.

Amazing how the most enjoyable foods have an addictive component to them, the grand poohbah sugar itself.

And then the food industry uses MSG or MSG derivatives (yeast extract, maltodextrin, hydrolyzed proteins) which is also a proven neurotoxin that fools your brain into thinking "this is good, I need to eat more."

I've become so aware of the MSG ingredients that I can tell when foods use it: I'll be eating a bag of chips or something (like those Calbee Pea Pods) and after 10 minutes, I notice I CAN'T GET ENOUGH and keep shoving them into my mouth. One look at the ingredient list and there it is: Yeast Extract, one of the many MSG derivatives designed to make you eat more and more.

Interestingly, the Calbee pea pods recently removed that ingredient so now they're not as addictive. Consumers are wising up.

 

[CareCPA]

Thanks for that, I'll look more carefully at it.

Just make your own.
Blend up almonds and water, run through a cheesecloth.
Or, they make special nut sacks (don't google that).

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Regarding the nutrition topic...

I put these on everything. They look like Parmesan flakes but have zero taste. They are a nutritional bonanza, including protein.

 

[Aidan04]

I feel F*cking amazing.

We are about a week in and my head feels clear. I feel focused and driven.

I feel much more lean, inflammation and water retention was definitely going on. My muscle tone looks 20X better.

The only animal based products that I've had is the greek yogurt in my protein smoothies.

Due to the varied diet I'm also getting much more nutrients and electrolytes than before. I remember scrambling for a vitamin water before I made the change.

Also, I went to chipotle last night and they have this amazing tofu option for burritos called "sofritas". It tastes exactly like chicken and has the same protein.

The meat and dairy industry echo chamber is real.

We have a bunch of influencers and bro marketers telling you that the plant based diet (or 90% plant based diet) will increase your estrogen and make you feminine and give you tits and all this bullshit.

False.

Why the hell have I never done this before?

The main reason is that any young guy in the gym that you meet will echo what the media has said.

As soon as I saw all the signs, it kind of clicked. Just like the SCRIPT, I was living in a hall of mirrors.

This option for food is the UNSCRIPTED option.
It's going against everything that everyone says, but you personally know that it has much better effects for your body and mind.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The reason I don’t like being “vegan” is that it puts you in a box.

The only box you can get put in, is the one you put yourself in.

Eggs are fine, but more than likely, you're not raising chickens in your backyard and treating them as good as the family dog.

Newborn male chicks are ground up alive since they're deemed worthless. No matter if they're grass-fed or naturally raised.

That seems like a quote MRAs would use LOL

Not sure what's funny. In other words, don't tell me anything about the factory-farming industrial complex because I don't want to hear it and would rather keep my cognitive dissonance at a reasonable level, so here's a quip about men's rights.

And people wonder why Vegans are preachy...

And it's why I've tried to steer this thread solely on those who are already living this lifestyle, not those who want to question it.

Because if you do, I'll start posting pictures. And believe me, what is seen, cannot be unseen. The SCRIPT is in every facet of culture and one of its dominant features is that the majority of people who follow it, would rather remain blind (cuz it tastes good!) than would rather see the truth. . . kinda like arguing the semantics of how we live in a *free* country.

Yea sure, as *free* as one of those free range chickens...

 

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[MTF]

I've been vegetarian for 12-13 years (don't remember exactly) and recently decided to become vegan (July 30 to be exact).

At first I just wanted to experiment and implement a full plant-based diet for health and athletic reasons.

Then I started reading about the problems of the dairy and egg industry. I was appalled that by being a vegetarian I still caused a lot of animal suffering. I wasn't aware of the horrible reality and thought that veganism was too difficult (particularly in the sport context) and vegetarianism was enough. But I found some examples of successful vegan athletes (particularly Tia Blanco, a vegan surfer who promotes the vegan lifestyle) and decided to give it a try.

I used to buy organic eggs ("0" in European Union) and was so sad to learn about chick culling and debeaking.

Then I learned about the horrible reality of daily suffering of dairy cows, the constant impregnation, the separation of calves from their mothers (and subsequent slaughter), and the slaughter of "spent" cows.

I wasn't aware of any of it so it was easy to think that just by skipping meat I wasn't contributing to the problem. Now that I know the horrible reality it's extremely unlikely I'll ever eat any animal products again.

And yes, I'm so convinced of it that I can say that after only a week and a half being vegan. I refuse to hurt even tiny insects and I don't want to contribute to any type of animal suffering and exploitation. This makes veganism the only logical choice to cause as little impact as possible. It's also the only way I can feel congruent with my values.

The fact that I can actually improve my health through implementing this lifestyle change (as evidenced by many sources, including Game Changers and Dr. Greger's work) is only a great bonus.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I had a blood panel last week and it came back great, except my cholesterol was slightly elevated. This prompted me to examine all the blood panels I've had in the last 15 years. (I save them in a 3-ring binder) Looks like in 15 years, my cholesterol has never been in a "good" range except after a year I went plant-based.

When I told my MD that I've always had high cholesterol he suggested I get a heart scan to determine my risk for heart disease due to arterial plaque and hardening. 15 years of high cholesterol is a pretty good marker for atherosclerosis and further down the road, heart disease. These results of the scan are then compared with other men in my age range.

My results came back and I scored at the 100th percentile. In other words, 100% of the men at my age have a 100% chance of having more arterial hardening/narrowing than I did. In short, my arterial function is more reflective of a 20 year old kid and not a 52 year old man.

As for the elevated cholesterol, I gather it was because I eat an excessive amount of plant-based cheese, which is high in saturated fat ... I think I've fallen for the old "it's sugar free, so I can have 3X as much!" which in this case, is snacking on plant-based cheese.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I was going to drop this rant into MJ's plant based thread, but didn't want to violate the spirit of that thread with this. I like meat but I see significant health benefits to the whole vegan lifestyle. I may alternate into that for windows alternated with a gigantic steak.

@Vigilante couple notes based on years of experience, I brought this into the plant-based thread as most people won't want to read any of the following, as one could ascertain to the reception your post received...

• Use the word "vegan" and you immediately lose most of the audience as it conjures up visions of purple haired socialists. Opt for "plant-based" whenever you can. I've tried to remove the word "vegan" from my life as it is a loaded word politically. Being compassionate and wanting to be healthy has nothing to do with The World Economic Forum, socialism, or Bill Gates.
• FACT: People don't want to hear you're completely healthy, not obese, and off medications if it involves anything plant-based, even here. I was saddened to hear the response I got here when I made it know I was not eating meat any longer, no one cared I felt awesome, feeling better at 53 years old than I did at 33. Instead, they just felt my way of eating was a threat to their own, so curse your results.
• Think "the Script" is a powerful brainwashing in a job culture? Oh boy, wait until you see the reception you get if people hear you are eating plant-based and don't want to eat their factory farmed trash. We live in a job culture, a meat culture, and an alcohol culture -- I do not participate in any of that normalized shit -- and I am proud of my results on all aspects of life; financial, health, spiritual, more...
• Anyone on medications due to food related illness is a victim of the vicious diet/sickness/pharma cycle -- there are few authorities willing to address this paradigm, and too many heavily capitalized, powerful interests that will keep it going long after you and I are gone. You're on your own (just like the VAX) to figure this out for yourself.
• There is no price on good health, so good for you in taking yours seriously.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

For all my fellow plant-based folks, just confirming what you already knew...

Cardiometabolic Effects of Omnivorous vs Vegan Diets

This randomized clinical trial of identical twin pairs compares the cardiometabolic effects of a healthy vegan diet with a healthy omnivorous diet.

jamanetwork.com

 

[amp0193]

Again, your cravings for the fake meat (and meat in general) should subside over time.

I have to tell myself that the point of being Vegan is to adopt a plant-based diet, not a meat replacement diet.

My wife is vegetarian, and she does most of the cooking.

I love all of the veggie heavy stuff, but I dislike pretty much anything that pretends to be a meat.

There are several awesome veggie burger recipes though, and I can do those.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

just like the script tells you to trade your life away for money, it's like there is a script out there for the food industries to push out these products onto us for mass profits via marketing & brain washing (think the kind of stuff like REAL MEN eat meat, and milk is good for your bones!)

Could these all be lies? How much money are these meat industry people making off the exploitation of animals?

Ultimately.... are we eating to fuel our body? Or to please our taste buds?

Congratulations.

As I said elsewhere, I went vegan while I was researching cultural scripts while researching my 2nd book, Unscripted . The routine enslavement and exploitation of animals was a huge script I discovered, not to mention the food lobby, and various other things. I don't kill spiders or grasshoppers in the house, but I had no problem eating a chicken sandwich? The hypocrisy was too much to bear. If I couldn't kill the animal myself, I had no business eating it.

For me to cross that chasm was huge and it took me a lot of study and self-reflection. Especially since, politically speaking, I don't identify with the general political stereotype of a vegan (who tends to be anti-gun and anti-capitalist) -- I'm on an island to myself.

For me, it is a simple decision to be compassionate, which I believe, ties deeply into spiritualism, no matter if you are religious or atheist. Another creature's life is not mine to take, just because I like the way it tastes.

Another big part of the shift is something I never mentioned before publicly: I had a mild heart attack in my mid-thirties ... this was when I was on a heavy meat diet, steakhouses a few times a week, eggs for breakfast, blocks of meat for dinner. And yet physically speaking in terms of "shirt off aesthetics" -- I looked great.

They were actually really good and could barely notice the difference, if we can replicate the taste of a meat product *without* using meat... what is the point of meat?

Yes, and you saved a chicken's life too! (not really, but every bit helps).

The "meat replacements" have really improved in the last 2 years. I haven't found a steak replacement however, and steak was always my favorite. Here is my list of how tasty/replaceable certain food categories are ... a 10 = it tastes exactly the same as the real thing...

Chicken 9/10
Hamburger 9/10
Sliced Cheese 9/10
Pizza 6 / 10 (the melted fake cheese needs improvement)
Ground Beef 9/10 (Fajitas, tacos, etc. 9/10 [impossible ground beef)
Steak ??

They are making it REALLY EASY to go vegan as all your favorite junk is still out there.

Years ago, it would have felt nearly impossible.

On a side note: vegan business opportunities are growing like crazy. I live in an agricultural "red meat" type of area and my local Target had 6 full coolers of plant-based options, that's 12 doors. Last year it was just 3. Doubled in 1 year. This is the same thing that happened to the milk coolers, slowly replaced and faded out with Almond, Soy, Cashew, and Coconut milk alternatives.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

You don't go into it into the book - only briefly mentioning your health markers and animal cruelty- but I was wondering what made you make the switch. I guess it's comparable with going fastlane - what was your f*ck you-event ?

I researched industrialized animal agriculture and carnism as a potential "Script" while writing Unscripted Book 1. (2017). I found myself caught in a duplicitous dissonance with respect to how I loved all animals and yet, had no problem stuffing my face full of slaughtered animals, all in the name of convenience and taste.

Americans don't like dogs being tortured and eaten in China, but they have no problem eating cows and pigs just as long as someone else does the torture and slaughter behind closed doors. The duplicity is laughable. Cows, pigs, and chickens -- they are equally as intelligent as any house pet.

No sentient being with the emotional capacity to feel fear, pain, and grief should be caged and treated like inanimate objects. If you want to see what cannot be unseen, take a look a how these creatures are treated and then slaughtered, all so some fat-a$$ American can have their convenient dollar meal.

I don't want to post videos here is it is quite traumatic and sad.

Animals can grieve for lost companions and family members, but we choose to be blind to their emotional pain. We choose to deny them sentience and their natural instincts to live and survive.

I went vegan primarily for the animal welfare reasons, but the health benefits that followed was the icing on the cake.

As I mentioned in the book, it was the hardest thing I ever did, until it no longer was hard.

Compassion is not a fad.
Compassion is not a diet.
Compassion exists only because cruelty does.
When cruelty disappears, the need for compassion will as well.

A PS to the skeptics: I get plenty of protein, my B12 is fine, and I'm not losing my hair... it actually stopped falling out.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

After finding the book The China Study and starting to read it a few days ago.. my mind is in disbelief. Never ever would I think that I'd be looking to become vegetarian or vegan.

What sources converted you guys? I'm just starting down the rabbit hole and going to have to switch up the grocery list here soon.

I can't post my sources out of respect for the forum and saving people from triggering, tiresome debates that are as effective as turning a Christian into a atheist.

However my reasons to eat 100% plant-based is probably along these lines: 25% health, 5% environmental, 70% animal welfare...

With respect to animal welfare, I believe I have no right to kill a sentient being that doesn't want to be killed. Go down that rabbit hole and see how animal agriculture is done, right down to the slaughtering process.

Funny how people are all pissed off how beagles are horribly murdered for research, but pigs being horribly murdered for their bacon sandwich is OK -- both creatures have similar intelligence, fear and emotional responses, a nervous system to process all of it, and a willful desire and instinct to preserve their lives. The only difference between the beagle outrage and pig murder is their cultural bias, an outdated pre-industrial age paradigm, and an omnipotent viewpoint that what isn't theirs, is theirs to take simply because it tastes good for 12 seconds.

I figured I take the time not to kill spiders in the house, I can make the effort not to kill other living creatures who are far more intelligent.

I am aware of the China study but have not read it.

Just a word of caution, a vegan diet is great if it is done properly. Unfortunately a lot of people make vegan = "no meat" and just end up eating a lot of processed junk, process wheat and empty carbs, processed fake meats, and other crap that has marginal health benefits. Then they like to say, "The vegan diet didn't work for me!"

Duh, of course it didn't.

Oreos and orange juice for breakfast, and a Coke, Beyond Burger and fries for dinner might be vegan, but you're doing your body no favors.

The above describes my first few months attempting to go plant-based... I gained weight and saw/felt no visible health benefits. The next 4+ years have gone differently.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Sicking tired of people asking this questions... I tend to hide that I'm vegan, it saves me a lot of energy explaining.

I would pay money to have the power of shut people's mouth from questioning my lifestyle XD

You think being an entrepreneur in a work-slave culture is hard?

Try being vegan, even if you try keeping it on the "down low" (now I know why aging athletes don't say shit about it) -- I'm still in shock at the BS I have to deal with, here, from strangers, young know-it-all "fitness experts", old fat F*cks on 5 medications, and wide variety of other pharma bros. Based on some of the things I've had to deal with, it's literally a new type of racism that is cool, and institutionally endorsed and accepted -- disease and healthcare sickcare is a multi-trillion dollar business ... and healthy people are not good for business.

We live in a clown world when Pepisco and Coke is dispensing nutrition advice while funding the American Diabetes foundation.

Now excuse me while I go drink my soy milk and eat my tofu lunch -- I have a pink dress I need to wash.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I just want to further highlight that they were moving naturally. So many of us pay to not have to do the activities these people were doing most just to maintain a simple way of living - cooking, cleaning, washing dishes & clothes, walking/cycling places, etc. etc. And I've seen this advice given in multiple places, including this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, MJ, I've seen you post about paying to go out to eat most nights and automating many other of these simple daily tasks in order to give you more freedom of time. But it seems centenarians are doing these things to (unknowingly) buy more time. Does this change your perception on freedom of time?

Absolutely, it's clear a life of leisure (Watching TV, video games) does not lead to longevity.

I don't view going out to eat as detrimental as I still eat plant-based, and dinner is only an hour of sitting, at best.

However, sitting at a desk 8 hour a day is problematic. I have a walking treadmill at my desk.

This year, I started doing of housework including lawn maintenance, like pulling weeds and mowing the lawn.

I no longer view these activities as "thankless" and something I need to outsource. I view them as an investment in my health and longevity ... 30 minutes of busywork around the house = 90 minutes of health later. I discovered I enjoy the responsibility as it forces me to be active, regardless on how I feel.

This kind of perspective shift is crucial, because normally I'd find myself saying, "You should pay someone to do this" which if I did, I'd likely be sitting at a desk working, or writing. If I replace these physical activities, they absolutely need to be replaced with something else physical.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Hello guys,

I've been through every page of this thread. I have to say thank you to all the contributors in the past six years, as I've got plenty of information to proceed without fear of losing all of my gym gains - and putting on plenty more!

My biggest takeaway from trawling the thread is

• It is about a choice based on morality and health.
  • I struggled with choosing something like carnivore because I'd be killing so many beings, but I wanted the benefits of health.
  • I could continue being an omnivore or even vegetarian. I'd get good health benefits. However, the footage I've seen is an undeniable truth that has made a deep impression on me.
• When you tell your diet preferences, say you're plant-based, NOT vegan.
  • Sadly, the word has been tainted & dragged through the mud.
  • I've already tested this, and you get immediate defence from people. I've never experienced such hostility. You'd think the word is a slur.
• It would be best if you were strategic about how you go into this.
  • There is an obsession with meat replacements. Burgers, chicken, cheese, etc. If these foods taste like trash, they weren't made for a plant-based diet. You can easily fall into a worse diet because some foods are just as processed as a McDonald's burger.
  • You can also have a problem with the meat flavour. It's easier to give up and go back.
  • You MUST not see this as "giving up" anything. You'll discover foods which are tasty & satiating - we don't eat rabbit food.
• Make sure you supplement vitamin B12 & D3.
• Make sure you monitor if you're getting your 13 amino acids. Use Cronometer.
  • I read that spinach and broccoli can help a lot with this.
• There's been a lot of mentions of excess fibre being dangerous
  • If you have too much, you can bloat a lot. A quick look and it seems like 70g is the limit, or nine cans of lentils.

GREAT INFOGRAPHICS

Some ideas for food
Breakfast

• Oats with Berries

Lunch/Dinner

• Beans Tofu w/ Veggies
• Lentil/bean/chickpea/spinach curry
• Tofu Brocolli
• Salad bowls

Snacks

• Peanut Butter with Peanut Butter Jelly
• Smoothies (Berries, peanut butter, oats)
• Vegan protein powder alongside a "milk"
• Nuts, cashews, brazils, pecans

Great books that were recommended

• Whole by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
• The Starch Solution by John A. McDougall, MD
• The China Study by T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D. & Thomas M. Campbell II, MD
• How not to die by Dr. Greger
• How not to diet by Dr. Greger
• Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zone
• Dr Joel Fuhrman's books

Great Media

• Dominion (essential even if you don't want to be plant-based - everyone must know where their food comes from)
• The Game Changer
• Forks over knives
• Earthlings
• YOUTUBER: Earthling Ed (I've watched him a lot for research)

Personal Experience
NOTE: Please remember that this part of the post is based on my decision & conclusions I've drawn. Choose whatever diet you wish. I want to share my experience.

I was looking at this thread and began tallying up items that were being mentioned repeatedly. I always like to see if I am missing something I don't have. Alongside this thread, a Reddit post was linked to a similar topic.

In both, there was a mention of "Vegan diet", "plant-based", and "vegetarian". Lots of people are reporting the health benefits. I saw it and reacted, "I'm missing something here", so I dug deeper.

Early in my research, I came across one of the most atrocious documentaries I've ever seen.

I found Dominion.

I began watching it, thinking, "Oh, it can't be that bad. I should know where my food comes from".

After twenty minutes, I cracked. I wanted to stop and forced myself to watch it for another hour, before I couldn't take anymore. The whole thing is extraordinarily traumatic, and I'm no stranger to awful places and experiences.

I've seen plenty of photos of sufferers of Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, I've visited Auschwitz/Birkenau first-hand, read memoirs of the atrocities of the WW2 Pacific campaign (With The Old Breed), and watched countless war films & video documentaries detailing awful events.

... and I must say this video was just as traumatic, if not more, than experiencing the previous list. You can only justify the actions if you say they're not human, not feeling. But truthfully, they feel everything. Just like us.

A chicken, pig, cow, duck or fish is no different to us or my orange cat, Smokey.

View attachment 54162

Funny enough, I hadn't thought much of this image before, but after the video, I wondered if it would be okay to switch the slab of steak with my cat. Never. So why would I see a cow, a fish, a chicken as less valuable? Because it's "domesticated"? They have the same intelligence & both are sentient.

I also raised chickens myself - I've seen them go from a chick, live for ten years and then pass away (ten years is the natural age, by the way).

When I was ten, I'd wake up early to see ten chicks before school every day. I would crawl into the nursing pen with the mother & her chicks; I'd pick them up, one by one, and gently pet them while holding them. Each would calmly chirp & I can still remember how soft their feathers were. How tiny their wings were. How gentle you had to be with them. How you'd cup them in one hand. If you close your hand with a bit of space right now, that's how you'd hold them.

I won't go into what they do to male chicks; you'll have to see it for yourself, but I would physically fight someone before I'd ever let such a thing happen to such an innocent and delicate creature.

Those videos have been branded onto my mind. I cannot unsee them. I cannot unhear their suffering. I cannot reverse this.

My reaction was so intense I couldn't even look at the meat I bought this week without my stomach churning. I gagged when I glanced at the meat in the packaging. Bear In mind, earlier that day, I had a steak & eggs.

I've sold the meat in the fridge, given away a chicken thigh curry I had & I've sold my big bag of whey protein.

I can't eat it. I feel disgusted, ashamed & sick.

I could only convince myself to have an omelette with cheese. I even struggled with that.

---

As I've done more research, I began recognising how deeply unquestioned dogma has been implanted into me without my consent. Here was me thinking I was living a life of truth, meaning and purpose, to have it blown to pieces with the lies & dogma I didn't even realise were fed to me.

I'm angry, confused & I feel betrayed. Many things I cannot look at the same.

I've tried looking for arguments against being plant-based; the only arguments I've seen so far have been pitiful. Many are:

• Poor science.
• Have a flawed understanding of introductory chemistry.
• Arguments that don't even hold up.
• Ancestor arguments which make no sense in the modern world context.
• There's a lot of shaming that you're not a "man" if you don't have a steak.
• There are a lot of accusations that you're ze/zey & have blue hair.

Saying I'm unimpressed is an understatement. I'll continue stress testing, but much of this research has only fortified my decision on this.

I tried vegetarianism a year ago, but I gave up too quickly. My hesitation has cost lives.

I've had about a kilo of chicken breast every week since then, equating to at least one hundred and fifty-two chickens - their lifespan is only seven weeks. The equivalent of twenty years of suffering. Paid by me.

Twenty years of suffering for a year of my fleeting pleasure of taste? It doesn't balance up in my mind. I'd pick those one hundred and fifty-two chickens that are alive.

My next question is, can I save one hundred and fifty-two chickens by not contributing to this system over the next year? I'm determined to do so.

Impressive.

Amazing how your story was very similar to mine which involved throwing a spider outside (instead of killing it) while eating a chicken sandwich. That led me down the rabbit hole which involved exposing my own lies and duplicity.

I read your post to my wife and she was brought to tears. And she was impressed that such a young man can see through the dogmatic programming involved in such a topic.

Having compassion for sentient beings who feel emotions such as fear and joy is not extremism.

I'm just happier because I can look at animals and not feel guilty that I'm killing them for my pleasure.

The best thing I did for my spiritual life was to stop contributing to the slaughter of innocent beings. I've never felt closer to "God" or whomever is running the show. And this spiritual peace includes my dismissal of any organized religion over 10 years ago, religions consecrated by humans, the same humans who think enslavement and murder of entire species is OK, while they hypocritically preach about other matters... don't get me started there.

Anyhow, you've chosen to navigate life carrying the TWO HARDEST stances to uphold...

1) Being an entrepreneur in an EMPLOYEE world

and

2) Eating plant-based in a MEAT world.

Both traditions are like stepping away from two religions you were born into.

If you can do that at 20-something, you can do ANYTHING.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Each one of these creatures wanted to live, but couldn't because of human ignorance, apathy, or selfishness, or a combination of each. Even if the figure "725 million" was a lie or embellished, what does it matter? 7 million? 700K? 70 million? One is enough.

and your average diet

Here's my typical lunch (Sorry I already ate most of it). Everything on the plate has a purpose, from the sauerkraut to the spinach.

Avocado
Tomato
Spinach
Sauerkraut
Olive
Hemp Seeds
Cucumbers
Carrots
Protein Shake

Altogether, it's about 28-32g of protein. If I was on a strength-training day, I'll top the shake with a plant-based option like lentils or seasoned tofu.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I don't care about dairy just eggs.

I hear some folks continue forward with the eggs so as long they're not from factory farmed operations.

We get eggs from a local farm (part of a farm-to-table program) and actually see the chickens are living well. Don't like wasting them so I'll have a few once in a while.

 

[Timmy C]

Live to 100: A Study of The Blue Zones is a great watch on Netflix as it examines healthy people in their 80s, 90s, and 100s, from areas around the world with high concentrations of centenarians.

Watching had me in awe at some of activities these people were undertaking while being 95 years old, and they all looked 20 years younger.

Here are the commonalities:

Exercise: All the people moved regularly in their life, whether it's walking to church, walking up 4 flights of stairs, outdoor gardening, swimming, etc. In other words, these people don't have gym memberships, they simply are moving a good part of the day in a low impact way. No one was sitting at a desk 10 hours a day.

Diet: All of them eat plant-based, even high carb (but quality carbs with fiber). Meat/dairy, if any, represents less than 5% of their diet. Sorry bros, no mention of KETO/CARNIVORE. Not one person who is still thriving in their 90s+ mentioned meat or dairy, and listening to 28 year olds about the benefits of such a diet is laughable.

Meaning and Purpose: All these old people in varying parts of the planet NEVER LOST their sense of purpose. Each one had a powerful spiritual reason to live, not just limited to religion.

Community: All of the people had strong family and community bonds, a circle of friends that they met with, or played with regularly. Also includes church activities, not religion specific.

Sun: One other factor that wasn't specifically highlighted, but was common, was all the centenarians lived in an area that received a lot of sunshine, nutritionally speaking, this could be related to Vitamin D.

The areas examined at:
Okinawa, Japan
Sardinia, Italy (part of the island)
Nicoya, Costa Rica
Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists who are vegetarian + religion)
Ikaria, Greece

I decided not to put this summary out in the main part of the forum (where some might find it interesting) and limited it to this thread because the plant-based fact in this examination will be triggering to most. Alluding that a first-world person should eat plant-based is like trying to convince a communist the benefits of capitalism. I'll pass.

Anyway...

I'll leave you with this...

Everyone here is trying to improve the quality of their life, and much of that life will occur as an older person.

Wealth and freedom means nothing if you can't enjoy it due to disease and debilitation.

In America, most people my age are already on 5 medications and can't walk a flight of stairs.

My goal is to be as active as I am today (53) when I'm 80.

That's amazing stuff.

I was eating lunch with a lady at work yesterday, and she has been eating a plant-based diet since she was 15.

She is 62 years of age and she said everyone she knows her age is on heaps of medications and has some sort of health issue but she doesn't have any of that!

Such a cool bird, she was sharing her lunch and gave me a few recipes as her food looked awesome.

 

[Jon822]

Having compassion for sentient beings who feel emotions such as fear and joy is not extremism.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

People will always eat meat.

Of course they will. However we're not talking about Alaskan bush people or Pacific Islanders where meat is a necessity to survival -- we're talking about 1st world industrialized humans (of which most of them are overweight to morbidly obese) who eat meat purely for flavor, not for necessity.

humane ways

Despite the notation to keep this conversation contained to Vegans already engaged in the lifestyle, I knew it would be impossible for the carnivores to sit back and not defend their bacon double cheeseburgers.

Your response is typical Scripted drivel designed to make you feel better about contributing to the problem. And of course, it is a defense to the status quo which doesn't want its "flavor" threatened.

You want "the script" to be limited to business, education, and economics. We'll I'm telling you it is its most powerful in health, food, and medicine.

This was the hardest thing for me to accept because like mostly everyone, I enjoy my BBQ, my bacon, and my trip to the steakhouse.

But the truth of the matter is, the "script" was allowing my intellectual dishonesty to continue unquestioned and muzzling what my soul subconsciously knew to be undeniable facts. That is by design -- because a significant % of humans wouldn't do the killing themselves, they pay for someone else to do it behind closed doors while masked to the atrocity of the slaughter. And the ultimate truth, I was abetting it because I was consuming for pure pleasure, not for necessity.

When I simplified the choice down to it's core reality, the decision became easy.

If I had to physically press a simple "kill" button to slaughter an animal (behind closed doors, not even seeing their face) I couldn't. And if I couldn't press the button, I can't open my wallet and pay for someone else to do it.

There is NO humane way to kill something that doesn't want to be killed.

Can you be humanely bred, incarcerated, and then killed because an advanced alien civilization deems it is smarter than you, and therefore, is entitled to the muscle on your bones? Even though you have a considerably advanced nervous system that can feel emotion, feel fear, and feel joy? Your bacon is smarter and more emotional than your family dog. But that's OK, because well, it's always been done that way. And it tastes good.

As @jon.M mentioned, you vote with your wallet. That is where change starts and this kind of small grass roots effort has already had a significant impact.

Red pills aren't limited to business and economic slavery.

And once you swallow the red pill, only wilful ignorance and pure selfishness allows the truth to remain buried because well, everyone else is doing it and the Wendy's commercial looks so tempting...

Nice analogy...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-zsOfHwHD0