The Learning a New Language Thread

[luniac]

Look into resources like Duolingo, Babbel, LanguageTransfer, and Memrise.

All of these are free if not negligibly cheap, and you can use them to get a great start on your language learning now.

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

I thought Rosetta Stone was the go to software, times have changed? lol

 

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[The-J]

I actually wrote a pretty in-depth article (10k words, no jokes) on language learning but it's kind of boring... it'll teach you how to do it though. Depending on the amount of likes on this I'll edit & publish it. I've delayed publishing it because I only speak 3 languages (and my other 2 are low-intermediate at best) while other gurus speak 10, 20, 50, and because it's long as hell.

Basically it takes you through the entire process, step by step, even if you wanna learn a language like Greenlandic or something w/ no materials available.

It'll tell you how to do it, why you don't need a tutor (even though one could help a ton), why you don't need to travel to the country, and how 20-40 minutes per day IS enough time (although I've prescribed some more intensive methods such as a 6-hour immersion bootcamp, based on the actual methods used by the Foreign Service Institute, for you mixmaxers out there).

It'll teach you how to study grammar without wanting to kill yourself. It'll break some limiting beliefs about it that you might not even know you had. It'll show you how to deal with the ego while learning.

It'll tell you how to nut up and speak to people in real life, as well as hide behind a phone screen and chat with natives there. It'll teach you how to walk the long road that is 'getting advanced'. Best of all, it's backed by science and real case studies.

Oh and it's free with absolutely no catch. No email submit, no going on my FB Messenger list, nothing. Let me know. Don't PM me about this.

 

[ZF Lee]

How often do you use/read Chinese?

As much as I can.
But I think studying in an English dominated academic environment and an urban location, where everyone thinks English is the royal language of heroes, instead of merely another language, might degrade some of my efforts lol.

On catching the quick conversations...if I think it is notable, I pause, compare with subtitles and look them up. YouTube and internet videos help lol. You can't be that versatile with TV though

I was recently watching Jack Ma's first pitch vid. Passionate, but simple enough.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i4564CkhbM0

EDIT: @The-J, I'm game for such an article! There isn't a lot of language orientated stuff around here, but if you want to know foreign customers or suppliers better, it's a good practice to learn the lingo.

 

[I Am I Said]

I speak English and French fluently and can carry a basic conversation in Spanish, as long as I say "pero..." and wave my hands a lot.

You have to attack a language on multiple fronts simultaneously. So I learn vocab through duolingo, insist on struggling through conversations in Spanish with people who are native speakers (I just say, "pero..." and wave my hands a lot...), read Madrigal's Magic Key to Spanish, read dual-language readers, listen to old SpanishPod lessons, etc, etc. I've tinkered with it for years, but like with entrepreneurship, my day job, my mental health and my relationships, decided to get serious about a year ago. Lots of fun. Mentally stimulating.

 

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[Jamie T]

Who else here is learning a new language?

I've been learning Spanish again. I took four or five years in high school, but didn't remember much from back then.

I decided to take a daily improvement approach this time around. Practice every single day for 365 days and (in theory) I'll be better at Spanish compared to when I started.

I use a combination of Duolingo, Rosetta Stone, and speaking with my girlfriend (she grew up speaking both English and Spanish, she's fluent.

I'm currently on a 289 day streak on the Duolingo app. Rosetta Stone has been added in whenever I have some down time during the past 289 days too.

Oh yea, and I make sure to watch some movies in Spanish from time to time too.


I did learn some Russian a while back. It was fun because I really like the language, how it's written, and the sound of it. I stopped and switched to Spanish because it'll be more beneficial with what I want to do in life. I'll get back on the Russian later.

That's pretty cool to see others taking it upon themselves to learn another language too!

 

[Fox]

Curious why do you choose exactly Russian? Are there advantages to Russian speakers where you leave?

I can definitely see myself living in Eastern Europe in the future, maybe even next year. I had a great time in Ukraine and really liked everything. I go to Saint Petersburg for New Years and depending on which I liked the most I will move next spring/summer I think.

@The-J definitely interested in that. Thats some tight copy too ha!

 

[G-Man]

Oh and it's free with absolutely no catch. No email submit, no going on my FB Messenger list, nothing. Let me know. Don't PM me about this.

Glad I read to the end. You were definitely getting a PM on this. I vote publish!

 

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[TheDillon__]

I thought Rosetta Stone was the go to software, times have changed? lol

Yes and no! I'm pretty active in the online language-learning community (man that really does sound nerdy doesn't it?) and Rosetta Stone actually catches a lot of hate for being insanely overpriced. You're essentially dropping $400 on a product that gives you no real foundation for the language - the most that Rosetta Stone really goes over is a lot of vocabulary. (Vocabulary which is incredibly useful, but there are many cheaper avenues.)

That said, if you're looking to learn a language, there is one big pot-hole that you might fall into early on that will keep you immobile for quite some time, or overwhelm you completely.

How do I know which course is the best?

There is only one single rule that you have to follow for this.
.
.
.
.
avoid the question that people spend thousands of dollars trying to solve.
.
.
.
.
I've been reading too much on advertising recently. The big thing to keep in mind: The best language learning course is....


THE ONE THAT YOU FINISH!

No, I'm not being sarcastic. Any half-decent language learning course will still teach you an alright amount by the time you make it to the end. Some might take you a little farther than others, but the goal of nearly any introductory course is to give you a taste in the language, and get you to a point where you can have a basic conversation with another speaker.

In my circles, the number one most given piece of advice for those chasing foreign languages is one not too alien from this forum.

Simply, get started.

Pick a course that you enjoy and that works well with you, and just get going! 10 minutes six days a week is a lot better than one hour one day a week.

Here are some popular language learning courses for you to choose from:


* Rosetta Stone - Overpriced, but can be a wonderful tool if borrowed from a friend or library, or found online.

* Duolingo - By far the single most popular language learning app, completely free, forever.

* Babbel - Paid app (~$9/mo.) but covers both grammar and vocabulary in a very user-friendly way.

* Memrise - Wonderfully interactive app if you learn best via Flashcards - both free and paid versions available.

* iTalki - Keep things classic, and find an online tutor! Trial lessons are available for most teachers at lower prices - find the one that works best for you!

* Mango - Probably one of my favorites, and the least talked about. Mango has some 70+ languages in their system so far, and is free to use through quite a lot of libraries and universities. I used Mango for languages I'm just looking to have some basic conversations in - everything from Spanish to Chinese to Bengali to Hebrew!

* Pimsleur - Premium language learning resource. Pimsleur' focus is heavily pointed towards pronunciation. They'll tell you what you're going to say, give you that saying translated, and then help you speak the translation syllable by syllable. (Note: Some of the courses can be outdated, and some of the vocabulary can be unnecessary.)

* Michel Thomas - My absolute favorite. The Michel Thomas method is made to give you a deeper understanding of the language, based on the English that you already know. This course focuses on building mental processes for the language, so that you are never left stumbling over a conjugation and saying things like (I are tomorrow eating to-going) instead of I'm going out to eat tomorrow.

 

[The-J]

I didn't publish it per se, I'll just show the 2nd draft of it.

I think there are still some things I need to clarify, like what it is to live in the language and create an immersive environment for yourself.

Here you go. Your mileage may vary.

Please provide feedback, preferably constructive feedback. I know it's not the easiest read in the world, it's loooong.

 

[SeePetey]

Anyone ever been to Middlebury's summer language schools? I read about it in Gabriel Wyner's "Fluent Forever" book and it sounded pretty amazing.

I missed out on last summer's course, but my company promised to pay for me to go to 2018's if I do the Arabic.

 

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[luniac]

Yes and no! I'm pretty active in the online language-learning community (man that really does sound nerdy doesn't it?) and Rosetta Stone actually catches a lot of hate for being insanely overpriced. You're essentially dropping $400 on a product that gives you no real foundation for the language - the most that Rosetta Stone really goes over is a lot of vocabulary. (Vocabulary which is incredibly useful, but there are many cheaper avenues.)

That said, if you're looking to learn a language, there is one big pot-hole that you might fall into early on that will keep you immobile for quite some time, or overwhelm you completely.

How do I know which course is the best?

There is only one single rule that you have to follow for this.
.
.
.
.
avoid the question that people spend thousands of dollars trying to solve.
.
.
.
.
I've been reading too much on advertising recently. The big thing to keep in mind: The best language learning course is....


THE ONE THAT YOU FINISH!

No, I'm not being sarcastic. Any half-decent language learning course will still teach you an alright amount by the time you make it to the end. Some might take you a little farther than others, but the goal of nearly any introductory course is to give you a taste in the language, and get you to a point where you can have a basic conversation with another speaker.

In my circles, the number one most given piece of advice for those chasing foreign languages is one not too alien from this forum.

Simply, get started.

Pick a course that you enjoy and that works well with you, and just get going! 10 minutes six days a week is a lot better than one hour one day a week.

Here are some popular language learning courses for you to choose from:


* Rosetta Stone - Overpriced, but can be a wonderful tool if borrowed from a friend or library, or found online.

* Duolingo - By far the single most popular language learning app, completely free, forever.

* Babbel - Paid app (~$9/mo.) but covers both grammar and vocabulary in a very user-friendly way.

* Memrise - Wonderfully interactive app if you learn best via Flashcards - both free and paid versions available.

* iTalki - Keep things classic, and find an online tutor! Trial lessons are available for most teachers at lower prices - find the one that works best for you!

* Mango - Probably one of my favorites, and the least talked about. Mango has some 70+ languages in their system so far, and is free to use through quite a lot of libraries and universities. I used Mango for languages I'm just looking to have some basic conversations in - everything from Spanish to Chinese to Bengali to Hebrew!

* Pimsleur - Premium language learning resource. Pimsleur' focus is heavily pointed towards pronunciation. They'll tell you what you're going to say, give you that saying translated, and then help you speak the translation syllable by syllable. (Note: Some of the courses can be outdated, and some of the vocabulary can be unnecessary.)

* Michel Thomas - My absolute favorite. The Michel Thomas method is made to give you a deeper understanding of the language, based on the English that you already know. This course focuses on building mental processes for the language, so that you are never left stumbling over a conjugation and saying things like (I are tomorrow eating to-going) instead of I'm going out to eat tomorrow.

thanks, great info.

 

[startinup]

Learning Japanese

Right now I'm about 1100 kanji in (kanji are Chinese characters that are used in Japanese and there's about 2200 commonly used characters).

I've researched quite a bit before getting started since Japanese is an undertaking and I wanted to learn efficiently, so for anyone interested in learning the language here's a few tips:

1. Learn the meanings of the Kanji first. Why? Because kanji are used in tons of vocabulary so if you learn them first you'll have a strong base to build on and you'll know the meaning of some words by just looking at the Kanji that they contain.
2. Use Anki (as @Raoul Duke mentioned) to study the characters. Each kanji is composed of radicals which are just the simple shapes and used in many different kanji. Make up a story for each kanji to connect the radicals it contains and the meaning of the kanji. It helps if these stories contain vivid imagery and are set in a location you know (basically using memory palace technique, can explain this if interested, but its too much for the scope of this comment). This is basically a memory trick to help you recall the meanings more easily.
3. Treat learning the language as a process. Just commit to an hour or so a day and the sum of the days will add up to an entirely new language. Why mention this? Because it can be tough. I know some days I see the 100 flashcards to review and the 25 new ones to learn and I don't feel like doing it. But if you take the daily actions, you'll get the results. I used to know like 5 kanji, now I'm at 1100. You just take it one day at a time.
4. For vocab and grammar use: Tae Kim's guide to grammar and Genki 1&2.
5. Use services like iTalki and HelloTalk to find native speaker conversation partners and tutors (unless you live in Japan, in which case I don't know why you're reading this )

Keep in mind that a lot of this is just researched, and only the Kanji info has been implemented so far. There are many ways to learn, I've just tried to collect the best resources to do so efficiently.

Hope this helps anyone (@YanC) interested in Japanese. If anyone has any further questions, ask away.

 

[TinyOldLady]

Learning Japanese

Right now I'm about 1100 kanji in (kanji are Chinese characters that are used in Japanese and there's about 2200 commonly used characters).

I've researched quite a bit before getting started since Japanese is an undertaking and I wanted to learn efficiently, so for anyone interested in learning the language here's a few tips:

1. Learn the meanings of the Kanji first. Why? Because kanji are used in tons of vocabulary so if you learn them first you'll have a strong base to build on and you'll know the meaning of some words by just looking at the Kanji that they contain.
2. Use Anki (as @Raoul Duke mentioned) to study the characters. Each kanji is composed of radicals which are just the simple shapes and used in many different kanji. Make up a story for each kanji to connect the radicals it contains and the meaning of the kanji. It helps if these stories contain vivid imagery and are set in a location you know (basically using memory palace technique, can explain this if interested, but its too much for the scope of this comment). This is basically a memory trick to help you recall the meanings more easily.
3. Treat learning the language as a process. Just commit to an hour or so a day and the sum of the days will add up to an entirely new language. Why mention this? Because it can be tough. I know some days I see the 100 flashcards to review and the 25 new ones to learn and I don't feel like doing it. But if you take the daily actions, you'll get the results. I used to know like 5 kanji, now I'm at 1100. You just take it one day at a time.
4. For vocab and grammar use: Tae Kim's guide to grammar and Genki 1&2.
5. Use services like iTalki and HelloTalk to find native speaker conversation partners and tutors (unless you live in Japan, in which case I don't know why you're reading this )

Keep in mind that a lot of this is just researched, and only the Kanji info has been implemented so far. There are many ways to learn, I've just tried to collect the best resources to do so efficiently.

Hope this helps anyone (@YanC) interested in Japanese. If anyone has any further questions, ask away.

Thank you for the Anki tip. I am learning Japanese with the Memrise app (30 Minutes a day), but need to find a system to learn Kanji

 

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[Ninjakid]

Learning Japanese

Right now I'm about 1100 kanji in (kanji are Chinese characters that are used in Japanese and there's about 2200 commonly used characters).

I've researched quite a bit before getting started since Japanese is an undertaking and I wanted to learn efficiently, so for anyone interested in learning the language here's a few tips:

1. Learn the meanings of the Kanji first. Why? Because kanji are used in tons of vocabulary so if you learn them first you'll have a strong base to build on and you'll know the meaning of some words by just looking at the Kanji that they contain.
2. Use Anki (as @Raoul Duke mentioned) to study the characters. Each kanji is composed of radicals which are just the simple shapes and used in many different kanji. Make up a story for each kanji to connect the radicals it contains and the meaning of the kanji. It helps if these stories contain vivid imagery and are set in a location you know (basically using memory palace technique, can explain this if interested, but its too much for the scope of this comment). This is basically a memory trick to help you recall the meanings more easily.
3. Treat learning the language as a process. Just commit to an hour or so a day and the sum of the days will add up to an entirely new language. Why mention this? Because it can be tough. I know some days I see the 100 flashcards to review and the 25 new ones to learn and I don't feel like doing it. But if you take the daily actions, you'll get the results. I used to know like 5 kanji, now I'm at 1100. You just take it one day at a time.
4. For vocab and grammar use: Tae Kim's guide to grammar and Genki 1&2.
5. Use services like iTalki and HelloTalk to find native speaker conversation partners and tutors (unless you live in Japan, in which case I don't know why you're reading this )

Keep in mind that a lot of this is just researched, and only the Kanji info has been implemented so far. There are many ways to learn, I've just tried to collect the best resources to do so efficiently.

Hope this helps anyone (@YanC) interested in Japanese. If anyone has any further questions, ask away.

I've forgotten most of the Kanji as I haven't practiced in a while. Basically what I did before is just write them down over and over again until I memorized them. It was tedious and I don't feel like doing it again. I think I'm gonna check out that Anki thing.
Do you try to learn the kanji on their own, or with the words associated?

 

[Tiger TT]

Who else here is learning a new language?

I just started Russian and I can tell I have a few hard years ahead of me! I only know the letters and around five actual words but it is a lot of fun already. I have always wanted to visit (I go for New Years for the first time) and generally have found Russian people to be super friendly, interesting people.

I would love to hear what others are learning and also about any travel involved too. I will keep this thread updated on my Russian adventures as time goes on.

I took private Russian lessons for 2 years. Russian is hard and you will need at least 2 years if you want to speak comfortably.

By the way Eastern Europe is great if you're a man. I was in Kiev last May for 2 weeks. Speaking Russian helps a lot. I'll probably visit Kiev again this year on May. The reason I go there is to meet women on the streets, malls, coffee shops. The women are amazing.

"Milk Bar" and "Come and Stay" coffee shop are 2 nice places where locals hang out.

You can use a frequency dictionary when learning new vocabulary. A frequency dictionary is basicly a dictionary which contains the most used words in a language in usage frequency order. So you can learn vocabulary in an effective way. You don't waste time learning new words that you won't use.

I have this one for Russian:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0415521424/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

[startinup]

I've forgotten most of the Kanji as I haven't practiced in a while. Basically what I did before is just write them down over and over again until I memorized them. It was tedious and I don't feel like doing it again. I think I'm gonna check out that Anki thing.
Do you try to learn the kanji on their own, or with the words associated?

Yea the writing down method is not fun. I've done all of the 2200 most common kanji now and am just reviewing every day. All I did was learn the meanings. There can be a ton of different readings for each, and they are context based, so I'm just learnimg those as I learn vocab.

Here's a very good article I read before starting that helped a lot.

 

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[startinup]

Thank you for the Anki tip. I am learning Japanese with the Memrise app (30 Minutes a day), but need to find a system to learn Kanji

See the article I posted about above. It explains the how and why to learn the way I did.

Basically it's fast and helps you learn the rest of the language quicker.