Private labelling

[Elijah]

Hey guys, I already asked this in biophase's thread but I know he is a busy guy and I do not want to waste time so I am asking everyone and I hope that someone can help me:

So I have a product I want to sell on amazon and there are some competitors who sell different types of this product already. On alibaba I can exactly see which seller buys which item, they do not change it at all. So I want to make some improvements and put my personal label on it but I want to buy from a supplier who already sells to my potential competitors. Isn't it risky to ask him if he can make those improvements? He could just decline and tell my competitors what I want? There are probably some other suppliers but the quality of their product is probably not so good which means that I have to change even more parts of the product (which makes it more expensive I guess). What should I do?

Second question: I heard that you should not put your label on the product by your supplier because he could just start competing with you when he takes a look at how much sales you make (at amazon for instance). Is this true?

Thanks!

 

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[BlakeIC]

Hey guys, I already asked this in biophase's thread but I know he is a busy guy and I do not want to waste time so I am asking everyone and I hope that someone can help me:

So I have a product I want to sell on amazon and there are some competitors who sell different types of this product already. On alibaba I can exactly see which seller buys which item, they do not change it at all. So I want to make some improvements and put my personal label on it but I want to buy from a supplier who already sells to my potential competitors. Isn't it risky to ask him if he can make those improvements? He could just decline and tell my competitors what I want? There are probably some other suppliers but the quality of their product is probably not so good which means that I have to change even more parts of the product (which makes it more expensive I guess). What should I do?

Second question: I heard that you should not put your label on the product by your supplier because he could just start competing with you when he takes a look at how much sales you make (at amazon for instance). Is this true?

Thanks!

Uhhh just do something?

We (including you) don't know what kind of bond the supplier and AMZ sellers have. They may or may not tell the other people they produce for.

Could a manufacturer start selling as well? Sure they can if you want to avoid them overtaking you then just out SEO them.

You are over thinking this.

 

[Elijah]

Uhhh just do something?

We (including you) don't know what kind of bond the supplier and AMZ sellers have. They may or may not tell the other people they produce for.

Could a manufacturer start selling as well? Sure they can if you want to avoid them overtaking you then just out SEO them.

You are over thinking this.

Thanks, I just thought there are maybe ways to avoid both things which I just did not think about.

 

[Fpm9]

Which industry are you talking about ?
If the manufacturer need to change its product to fits your needs, I'm not sure it still qualifies as private labelling. Minimum order / prices might get higher.

 

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[Elijah]

So I thought the whole thing about private labelling is to improve a product and put your brand on it. I want to improve a tool which is used in the garden and there are many compaints on how it does not work.

Now I want to contact a supplier and improve this product but I know that my competitors also buy from one of those (there are not many) suppliers which brings me to the quesion:
I am improving a product and I probably have to pay for that (costs of changing it a bit) but then my supplier already has the blueprint for it and he coule just offer the improved version to everyone else?!

 

[amp0193]

On alibaba I can exactly see which seller buys which item, they do not change it at all.

No you can't. Suppliers on Alibaba making popular products regularly take images from Amazon and elsewhere and just put them on their pages. So that people like you, will see them, think it's the same, and want to order it.

The reverse is true too, where lazy Amazon sellers will just use an image from the factory's listing.

So, it may or may not be the same.

The only way to really know what you're getting is to get samples.

So I want to make some improvements and put my personal label on it but I want to buy from a supplier who already sells to my potential competitors. Isn't it risky to ask him if he can make those improvements? He could just decline and tell my competitors what I want?

If you're that worried about it, just ask them to quote for xxxx pcs of product. If they say "yes, xxxx for $xxxx", then get into the customization requests.

You also don't know that they are selling to your competitors.

And anyways, anything that you ask any supplier to do can be ripped off, sure, so that's why you move fast.

Second question: I heard that you should not put your label on the product by your supplier because he could just start competing with you when he takes a look at how much sales you make (at amazon for instance). Is this true?

@Walter Hay has a thing or two to say about product labeling.

 

[Walter Hay]

No you can't. Suppliers on Alibaba making popular products regularly take images from Amazon and elsewhere and just put them on their pages. So that people like you, will see them, think it's the same, and want to order it.

The reverse is true too, where lazy Amazon sellers will just use an image from the factory's listing.

So, it may or may not be the same.

The only way to really know what you're getting is to get samples.

If you're that worried about it, just ask them to quote for xxxx pcs of product. If they say "yes, xxxx for $xxxx", then get into the customization requests.

You also don't know that they are selling to your competitors.

And anyways, anything that you ask any supplier to do can be ripped off, sure, so that's why you move fast.

@Walter Hay has a thing or two to say about product labeling.

@amp0193 has made some valid points. It is next to impossible to be sure that you have found the actual manufacturer of a competitor's product. Images are certainly not enough.

In fact I would not bother trying to locate the manufacturer. Instead I would just start searching for real manufacturers who make that type of product.

As for your products being copied - yes, that is commonplace, and there are only two things that can work for you:
1. Act fast, as amp0193 says, so that you can establish yourself before the copycats arrive. Even so, you must be prepared to move on, having made the most of it while you had the market to yourself. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket - have another product in the pipeline.
2. Private label with superior branding and labeling, so that you product is not merely just another brand, but becomes the brand that people recognize.

Regarding the question about not putting your label on your product, that is something that I explain in my labeling book. Basically it amounts to ordering without disclosing your brand name or logo, and then using post-production labeling. It's a lot easier to do than many imagine, but it does mean that you have to either handle the goods yourself to arrange or do the labeling, otherwise have it sent to the business that is going to do the labeling or branding for you.

Walter

 

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[FullTimePreneur]

@Elijah if you are interested you can actually find out where other people are souring their products from by using panjiva (no affiliation). I haven't personally used it myself, but apparently, it can be used to find out where larger brands manufacture their products or you can find where successful sellers are getting quality and custom products made from.

 

[Walter Hay]

@Elijah if you are interested you can actually find out where other people are souring their products from by using panjiva (no affiliation). I haven't personally used it myself, but apparently, it can be used to find out where larger brands manufacture their products or you can find where successful sellers are getting quality and custom products made from.

Panjiva will show you what products in generic terms are being imported by whom and from whom, but it doesn't identify which product in terms specific enough to positively identify that shipment as comprising the actual product you are looking for.

Put simply, this means no, Panjiva won't show you who is manufacturing the exact product you are looking for.

Walter

 

[biophase]

I guess it's sort of ironic that I am private labeling my first product now, having done the opposite for so long. I basically decided that my customers want a certain product and when I searched for Amazon, I looked at the top sellers to see what they offered. One seller had exactly what I wanted and very good reviews. I don't know anything about formulating this product and I really don't want to learn the ins and out of this product line.

So I did some digging and found their supplier. After contacting the supplier they told me the MOQ was 1000 pcs if you used their standard bottle and your label.

So back to Amazon (the supplier is also selling on Amazon) I went and looked for listings with the same bottle. I found 4 other sellers using the same bottle, and you guessed it, the same ingredients list. So to be sure I ordered all 5 bottles, and they showed up exactly the same and the same product inside them.

So I went back to the supplier and said, I want to supply my own bottle so my product doesn't look the same. They said the MOQ is 2500, so I'm in the process of sourcing bottles right now.

 

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[Walter Hay]

I guess it's sort of ironic that I am private labeling my first product now, having done the opposite for so long. I basically decided that my customers want a certain product and when I searched for Amazon, I looked at the top sellers to see what they offered. One seller had exactly what I wanted and very good reviews. I don't know anything about formulating this product and I really don't want to learn the ins and out of this product line.

So I did some digging and found their supplier. After contacting the supplier they told me the MOQ was 1000 pcs if you used their standard bottle and your label.

So back to Amazon (the supplier is also selling on Amazon) I went and looked for listings with the same bottle. I found 4 other sellers using the same bottle, and you guessed it, the same ingredients list. So to be sure I ordered all 5 bottles, and they showed up exactly the same and the same product inside them.

So I went back to the supplier and said, I want to supply my own bottle so my product doesn't look the same. They said the MOQ is 2500, so I'm in the process of sourcing bottles right now.

I assume that you are sourcing this product in the USA. If so, may I suggest that you look for other suppliers, but ones that are not advertising that they supply private label products.

It is quite possible that others might be producing that same formula for themselves. In the supplement industry there are many copycats. That's quite reasonable, since variation for the sake of difference might not be a good idea.

There will also be toll blenders in that industry, whose business is solely supplying people who lack the knowledge or desire to formulate for themselves. They could be the best option, both for smaller MOQs and versatility in relation to using bottles supplied by you, and attaching whatever labeling you supply. They might not already produce to that formula, but if they are established in that line of business, that shouldn't be a problem.

One problem with buying from suppliers that advertise as private label manufacturers is that they most often want you to use their in-house design team and to produce the labels themselves. This severely limits your opportunities to be innovative and creative in design and type of labels. In other words, less control.

Walter

 

[Elijah]

@amp0193 has made some valid points. It is next to impossible to be sure that you have found the actual manufacturer of a competitor's product. Images are certainly not enough.

In fact I would not bother trying to locate the manufacturer. Instead I would just start searching for real manufacturers who make that type of product.

As for your products being copied - yes, that is commonplace, and there are only two things that can work for you:
1. Act fast, as amp0193 says, so that you can establish yourself before the copycats arrive. Even so, you must be prepared to move on, having made the most of it while you had the market to yourself. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket - have another product in the pipeline.
2. Private label with superior branding and labeling, so that you product is not merely just another brand, but becomes the brand that people recognize.

Regarding the question about not putting your label on your product, that is something that I explain in my labeling book. Basically it amounts to ordering without disclosing your brand name or logo, and then using post-production labeling. It's a lot easier to do than many imagine, but it does mean that you have to either handle the goods yourself to arrange or do the labeling, otherwise have it sent to the business that is going to do the labeling or branding for you.

Walter

In the meantime I found a quote by @biophase that you can put your label on the mould in order to protect the product. Yet he already answered on this thread but did not suggest it, don't you do it anymore?
Plus you (Walter) said you would not do that, but it actually sounds good. But what if I do not have a registered trademark? Is there still something like a deterrent to just order products with another (not registered) label/trademark on it?

Secondary question just to get the whole picture: I might misunderstand the whole procedure. So I always thought that private labelling is to take a product which already sells, improve it and put it on the market (what I thought biophase is doing).
So now he says that he just started private labelling which means it has to be something different. Is private labelling just to find a product which is selling, find the best supplier with the best possible quality, put your brand on it (without making improvements) and then start selling?
If so, isn't it way harder to succeed with this method because your product may not be different enough to convince your potential customers to sell from someone who is on page 3 rather than someone on page 1 with 500 reviews?

 

[biophase]

I assume that you are sourcing this product in the USA. If so, may I suggest that you look for other suppliers, but ones that are not advertising that they supply private label products.

It is quite possible that others might be producing that same formula for themselves. In the supplement industry there are many copycats. That's quite reasonable, since variation for the sake of difference might not be a good idea.

There will also be toll blenders in that industry, whose business is solely supplying people who lack the knowledge or desire to formulate for themselves. They could be the best option, both for smaller MOQs and versatility in relation to using bottles supplied by you, and attaching whatever labeling you supply. They might not already produce to that formula, but if they are established in that line of business, that shouldn't be a problem.

One problem with buying from suppliers that advertise as private label manufacturers is that they most often want you to use their in-house design team and to produce the labels themselves. This severely limits your opportunities to be innovative and creative in design and type of labels. In other words, less control.

Walter

Hi Walter,

Yes, the product is made in the USA. The reason I've honed in on this manufacturer is that there are not many that make a 100% organic product and actually USDA certified. Based on my research just going through Amazon listings, there are only a few manufacturers that can claim USDA certified, and they are mentioned by state because I think you need to say what state is certifying your product. So that led me to research manufacturers in those states and I ended up with this one.

There may be others out there, but the reason I chose this one is because they already manufacture for these other companies on Amazon. I know that their product is good because of the reviews these other company's products get. If I found a new manufacturer, I would have to test their products out for sometime.

So I'm going against the grain of my own advice in terms of private labeling here. But at this point, my brand name can carry sales on a good quality PL product, so there's no need to re-formulate this one.

 

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[biophase]

In the meantime I found a quote by @biophase that you can put your label on the mould in order to protect the product. Yet he already answered on this thread but did not suggest it, don't you do it anymore?
Plus you (Walter) said you would not do that, but it actually sounds good. But what if I do not have a registered trademark? Is there still something like a deterrent to just order products with another (not registered) label/trademark on it?

Secondary question just to get the whole picture: I might misunderstand the whole procedure. So I always thought that private labelling is to take a product which already sells, improve it and put it on the market (what I thought biophase is doing).
So now he says that he just started private labelling which means it has to be something different. Is private labelling just to find a product which is selling, find the best supplier with the best possible quality, put your brand on it (without making improvements) and then start selling?
If so, isn't it way harder to succeed with this method because your product may not be different enough to convince your potential customers to sell from someone who is on page 3 rather than someone on page 1 with 500 reviews?

Can you remind me of where I did not suggest putting your logo on the mold? What context was that in?

Yes, private labeling is where you just slap a label on it and don't improve it. If you improve something, it is unique to your company and not private label anymore.

 

[Elijah]

Can you remind me of where I did not suggest putting your logo on the mold? What context was that in?

Yes, private labeling is where you just slap a label on it and don't improve it. If you improve something, it is unique to your company and not private label anymore.

You did not say that but I thought there was a reason that you did not suggest it. If not then excuse my misinterpretation.

 

[Elijah]

So it is really strange: I wanted to improve the product based on the negative reviews on amazon but now a manufacturer said that they already have this improved version and sent me a picture. There is no such product on amazon. I will order a sample now to prove if it improved for real but if that is the case then why is no other competitor selling the improved one? It cost more but is this enough reason?

It would be perfect for me since I do not have to pay extra for the new mould but I find it strange though...

 

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[Walter Hay]

So it is really strange: I wanted to improve the product based on the negative reviews on amazon but now a manufacturer said that they already have this improved version and sent me a picture. There is no such product on amazon. I will order a sample now to prove if it improved for real but if that is the case then why is no other competitor selling the improved one? It cost more but is this enough reason?

It would be perfect for me since I do not have to pay extra for the new mould but I find it strange though...

I think you might have been quoting me when you referred to the idea of not putting your brand or logo on the mold. My reason for this suggestion is that molds can be made with a changeable insert plug that carries your logo, but can be replaced by a plug with your competitor's logo if the manufacture chooses to do that.

This can be done whether the mold is an "Open Mold" that is paid for and owned by the manufacturer, or even if you pay for it. Open Molds are stock molds available for use by the customer at no charge.

There will no doubt be products that can't have the logo added post-production because of the location, but if there is an accessible location for the logo or brand, there are ways in which they can be incorporated in the product after you take delivery.

The marking, stamping, or labeling method will depend to a large extent on the materials from which the product is made.

If anyone wants to apply post production branding or labeling that would normally be incorporated in the mold, feel free to contact me and identify the material from which the product is made. I will be happy to suggest a feasible method if it is possible.

Walter

 

[Elijah]

I think you might have been quoting me when you referred to the idea of not putting your brand or logo on the mold. My reason for this suggestion is that molds can be made with a changeable insert plug that carries your logo, but can be replaced by a plug with your competitor's logo if the manufacture chooses to do that.

This can be done whether the mold is an "Open Mold" that is paid for and owned by the manufacturer, or even if you pay for it. Open Molds are stock molds available for use by the customer at no charge.

There will no doubt be products that can't have the logo added post-production because of the location, but if there is an accessible location for the logo or brand, there are ways in which they can be incorporated in the product after you take delivery.

The marking, stamping, or labeling method will depend to a large extent on the materials from which the product is made.

If anyone wants to apply post production branding or labeling that would normally be incorporated in the mold, feel free to contact me and identify the material from which the product is made. I will be happy to suggest a feasible method if it is possible.

Walter

Thanks a lot for the insight Walter, helped me a lot!