My Turn. Pulling the trigger on my first ecommerce business!

[biophase]

As I stated before, I am in NO WAY attempting to take business from Bio. My site is centered around hunting blinds and camo netting, ghillie suits are only a side option for my customers. Bio has a far larger selection of ghillie suits than I do, and I in no way intend to even compete with him on that. The only reason I even have them is because one of my suppliers said that they offered a few and said I can list them if I would like. As you know, they go right in line with hunting and concealment just as camo netting does.

Some of you may not agree with this, and that is fair enough. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. I have worked hard on this site even though it isn't much compared to most of you experienced vets, but to me it is a starting point and something I am proud of. I am not going to just trash the site.

Blake,

I didn't want to respond publicly until you responded to my email but I can see your intentions from this post. I'm sorry that you feel that way and do not see what you are doing here. You are selling 4 different categories of products on your site and 2 are in direct competition with me.

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

So 57 of your 108 products, over 50% are in direct competition with me. You are selling hunting blinds as a side option! You can try to make convince yourself that what you are doing is ok. But everyone here knows and can see what a stab in the back this is.

My purpose of being a part of this forum was to learn and try to make a living in a different manner than I currently am. I have two kids that rely on me, so making a living on my own terms is my goal. I posted my site up on here for everyone to see an review and give me some feed back, and I appreciate all of the feed back I have gotten so far. If I was trying to "steal" someone else's business intentionally, I certainly wouldn't have posted it up on here for you all to see and provide feed back on, or email it to Bio directly to critique for me.

You obviously did not think it was stealing or you wouldn't have emailed me. I do believe that. However, after all the criticism on here you are choosing to keep the site up. This tells me that now you know it is wrong and you have choosen to go into competition with me.

It's ironic that in your email to me you said in your email " I figure you of all people could offer me the best insight because my particular product(s) is in the outdoors/hunting niche which I believe is similar to your area of expertise. I have been putting in a lot of time and effort to start putting all of this in motion, and it would be very helpful to get a second opinion on where I am so far and if I am missing something. I don't feel comfortable disclosing it on the forum because I do not want to create my own competition as a result of every new pop up member trying to run with it. I have done my research, contacted a supplier, with the help of you set up the shipping and brokerage, and started developing my site."

So I am asking you again to change your niche. I know you have put alot of time into it. But this is not the way you want to get into business, by making enemies.

 

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[biophase]

So here is where I am at as of this morning: I spent the last week looking at different products and then researching them like crazy to get an idea of what they are selling for here in the US, how much of a demand there is, what the competition looks like, and how I can do things better than the competition. Out of the 10 possible products I narrowed it down to two that actually look like they are worth running with.

I purchased the domain name last night, and received my first sample this morning.

Blake,

You didn't buy your current domain until Jan 23rd. So which is this one that you got on Jan 11th? I highly doubt you are importing these products from China that you wrote to me about in your original email. When did you decide to forget the China importing thing and go with the same niche as me?

 

[CEBenz]

Blake,

I didn't want to respond publicly until you responded to my email but I can see your intentions from this post. I'm sorry that you feel that way and do not see what you are doing here. You are selling 4 different categories of products on your site and 2 are in direct competition with me.

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

So 57 of your 108 products, over 50% are in direct competition with me. You are selling hunting blinds as a side option! You can try to make convince yourself that what you are doing is ok. But everyone here knows and can see what a stab in the back this is.



You obviously did not think it was stealing or you wouldn't have emailed me. I do believe that. However, after all the criticism on here you are choosing to keep the site up. This tells me that now you know it is wrong and you have choosen to go into competition with me.

It's ironic that in your email to me you said in your email " I figure you of all people could offer me the best insight because my particular product(s) is in the outdoors/hunting niche which I believe is similar to your area of expertise. I have been putting in a lot of time and effort to start putting all of this in motion, and it would be very helpful to get a second opinion on where I am so far and if I am missing something. I don't feel comfortable disclosing it on the forum because I do not want to create my own competition as a result of every new pop up member trying to run with it. I have done my research, contacted a supplier, with the help of you set up the shipping and brokerage, and started developing my site."

So I am asking you again to change your niche. I know you have put alot of time into it. But this is not the way you want to get into business, by making enemies.

Biophase, I haven't been able to get a look at the site, is he competing just product wise, or is it also the same exact market?

I mean, for instance, take flashlights. One site might cater to outdoorsmen while another might focus on concealed carry folks.

 

[Amail]

Bio, thanks for chiming in. I'm happy to extend the benefit of the doubt, but your post confirms our suspicions.

 

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[biophase]

He is carrying the products I mentioned above:

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

usahuntingblinds dot com

 

[CEBenz]

He is carrying the products I mentioned above:

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

usahuntingblinds dot com

I see. I was hoping maybe he repurposed to another market. That's pretty shitty of him.

 

[Amail]

Folks, bclark85 is banned.

This forum thrives in large part because experienced entrepeneurs with vast breadth of skill and knowledge are willing to lay out exactly how to become successful. Step by step in some cases. This exposes them to the threat of creating their own competition, but they do it never the less. The tacit understanding is people will use that information to drive their own success, but will respect and give wide berth to the business the mentors lay out.

Bclark85 has not only betrayed that trust, but doesn't see the harm in it. This attitude makes everyone from here on out leary of divulging anything about their business and brings down the value of the entire forum.

 

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[biophase]

Folks, bclark85 is banned.

This forum thrives in large part because experienced entrepeneurs with vast breadth of skill and knowledge are willing to lay out exactly how to become successful. Step by step in some cases. This exposes them to the threat of creating their own competition, but they do it never the less. The tacit understanding is people will use that information to drive their own success, but will respect and give wide berth to the business the mentors lay out.

Bclark85 has not only betrayed that trust, but doesn't see the harm in it. This attitude makes everyone from here on out leary of divulging anything about their business and brings down the value of the entire forum.

Amail, I don't think you should ban him. I'd like for him to be able to respond to my response here on the forum.

 

[Eskil]

Ouch..

Blake - I think you may owe Bio an apology here. Like others have suggested, I too agree that the competing products should come down asap. In the first page of this thread you mentioned that the ghillie suits were just a side product and that you were considering dropping them. But they are still very prominent on the site as of this minute. And as Bio has confirmed, there is no doubt that over half of your site is in direct competition with him - the same guy who helped you out...

 

[ubiquitous]

Amail, I don't think you should ban him. I'd like for him to be able to respond to my response here on the forum.

I don't think he should be banned period. Everyone actually involved in what's drawing out are learning lessons about friendships, mentors, and ethics... Including YOU.

I told him personally what I'll tell you right now: 1. It seems shitty, but it's not illegal. Would I do it? Not if I knew you, there's too much shit to sell. But, to stop doing it because other people tell you to without reasons of your own is silly. Yet, he hasn't sold any of them yet... so taking them down won't actually hurt him.

Likewise, I think you just learned a thing or two about disclosing your meal ticket. Sometimes people may shit where they eat.

 

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[Amail]

Amail, I don't think you should ban him. I'd like for him to be able to respond to my response here on the forum.

Out of respect for your wishes, I've lifted the ban for now. Let's see how he responds.

 

[Vigilante]

I think if you allow the integrity of the site and it's posters revealed intentions to be compromised, the value of the forum en total diminishes. This single incident has already had a detrimental effect and a chilling effect on the information exchange that makes this place unique from most other oasis on the internet. Most people remark that the free exchange of ideas here is what people find most refreshing. Hundreds of successful new businesses have been started that sparked from here. I think it is worth protecting.

 

[CEBenz]

I don't think he should be banned period. Everyone actually involved in what's drawing out are learning lessons about friendships, mentors, and ethics... Including YOU.

I told him personally what I'll tell you right now: 1. It seems shitty, but it's not illegal. Would I do it? Not if I knew you, there's too much shit to sell. But, to stop doing it because other people tell you to without reasons of your own is silly. Yet, he hasn't sold any of them yet... so taking them down won't actually hurt him.

Likewise, I think you just learned a thing or two about disclosing your meal ticket. Sometimes people may shit where they eat.

I guess we could always turn this into Warrior Forum *eyeroll*

 

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[InMotion]

For me, Ghillie suits have little to do with traditional hunting...I never used one to bag anything, although some do. I would think they are great for contract sniping or hiding from your spouse.

 

[ubiquitous]

I think if you allow the integrity of the site and it's posters revealed intentions to be compromised, the value of the forum en total diminishes. This single incident has already had a detrimental effect and a chilling effect on the information exchange that makes this place unique from most other oasis on the internet. Most people remark that the free exchange of ideas here is what people find most refreshing. Hundreds of successful new businesses have been started that sparked from here. I think it is worth protecting.

ANYONE could of copied biophase up until this point, what just happened is a personal matter and it has little to do with the website. I've seen people ask about his car and he already has been posting his websites in his sig, including in his AMA threads. If he was going to be copied then it was only a matter of time. Oddly enough it just happens to be by a guy he helped out and from what I understand they actually know each other AFK.

Does it make you think twice? Heck yes. I honestly doubt I'll update my thread with anything specific, but that's just the nature of the Internet. If it's public it's going to get copied eventually. Likewise, imitators already show that they're at a disadvantage.

They're moving into markets with artificial knowledge and subpar relationships. Interestingly enough--I've actually seen this happen before. This one man used to bloviate about how well he ranks with his particular niche sites, then one day a guy who I knew AFK that happened to be on the forum said "check it out, I outranked him for his own keywords". The original guy assumed it was me because we don't exactly get along, but I think he learned a lesson about the whole situation.

In case anyone's wondering, the guy that copied the other guy wasn't able to make things work out and is now a "seo consultant" (don't get me started).

Long story short. This kind of thing is bound to happen, it's execution--not ideas that make winners out of mere men.

 

[Vigilante]

ANYONE could of copied biophase up until this point, what just happened is a personal matter and it has little to do with the website. I've seen people ask about his car and he already has been posting his websites in his sig, including in his AMA threads. If he was going to be copied then it was only a matter of time. Oddly enough it just happens to be by a guy he helped out and from what I understand they actually know each other AFK.

Does it make you think twice? Heck yes. I honestly doubt I'll update my thread with anything specific, but that's just the nature of the Internet. If it's public it's going to get copied eventually. Likewise, imitators already show that they're at a disadvantage.

They're moving into markets with artificial knowledge and subpar relationships. Interestingly enough--I've actually seen this happen before. This one man used to bloviate about how well he ranks with his particular niche sites, then one day a guy who I knew AFK that happened to be on the forum said "check it out, I outranked him for his own keywords". The original guy assumed it was me because we don't exactly get along, but I think he learned a lesson about the whole situation.

In case anyone's wondering, the guy that copied the other guy wasn't able to make things work out and is now a "seo consultant" (don't get me started).

Long story short. This kind of thing is bound to happen, it's execution--not ideas that make winners out of mere men.

All of that... is true.

None of that... makes it right.

 

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[Amail]

I honestly doubt I'll update my thread with anything specific

And that's the difference between the value of your thread versus Biophase's. Which thread do you think better represents what people come to this forum for? Look at the "Likes" of various threads and see what the common denominator is. It's the people that let it hang out that make this place great, and that attitude needs to be nurtured lest this place devolve into WF.

 

[bclark85]

So 57 of your 108 products, over 50% are in direct competition with me. You are selling hunting blinds as a side option! You can try to make convince yourself that what you are doing is ok. But everyone here knows and can see what a stab in the back this is.

As I stated in my email to you I had absolutely no idea that you also sell camo netting.

You didn't buy your current domain until Jan 23rd. So which is this one that you got on Jan 11th? I highly doubt you are importing these products from China that you wrote to me about in your original email. When did you decide to forget the China importing thing and go with the same niche as me?

If you read my post again, I said I narrowed it down to two different products, which equals two different domains. I am also sure that I emailed you asking for your thoughts on my niche and about importing one of the products, which was hunting blinds. I did not make a decision to go into the same niche as you, nor was I referencing importing ghillie suits at all.

He is carrying the products I mentioned above:

18 ghillie suits
33 camo nets
6 hunting vests
51 hunting blinds products

Again, I had absoultely no idea that you also sell camo netting as you do not discuss it in any of your main threads and only refer to your ghillie stores in your sig.

Ouch..

Blake - I think you may owe Bio an apology here. Like others have suggested, I too agree that the competing products should come down asap. In the first page of this thread you mentioned that the ghillie suits were just a side product and that you were considering dropping them. But they are still very prominent on the site as of this minute. And as Bio has confirmed, there is no doubt that over half of your site is in direct competition with him - the same guy who helped you out...

I agree, and I have apologized to Bio through email twice now. Looking at it from his perspective, I can understand. I guess I did not see it as me being any form of "competition" as many have put it since I do not have a store dedicated to ghillie suits only, they are just a side product. He has a dominance in a market that he built and I respect, I did not see listing them as an option as a threat since nobody is going to pull me up when searching for a ghillie suit. They are down now, and an appology has been given to him.

Bclark85 has not only betrayed that trust, but doesn't see the harm in it. This attitude makes everyone from here on out leary of divulging anything about their business and brings down the value of the entire forum.

Really? I don't recall saying that at all? It appears that you are making your own assumptions about my thoughts an intentions. If utilizing your ban button will bring you satisfaction, I understand.

This single incident has already had a detrimental effect and a chilling effect on the information exchange that makes this place unique from most other oasis on the internet.

This is a dramatic statement. I guess you better email every single one of your competitors and tell them how aweful they are and that their competition enrages you and has a chilling effect on your business. Again, I openly posted my site up for all to see and critique, and I have accepted the criticism and I can see where Bio feels that I was trying to compete with him (not that I would even consider what little ghillie suits I had as competition to his store) and have taken them down. They are not even sellers in my store, so it wasn't a problem. However, if you think for a minute that there are not others that are not even members and read this board and take your ideas, you are foolish. I was not trying to hide anything or steal any ideas intentionally, I registered as a member and showed everything that I was doing, and then posted up my final product for review for you all to see and give me feed back on, not be crucified for "stealing" an idea regardless of what you thing. I have even contacted Kenric directly a few time throughout this process outside of this forum attempting to get feed back and input on my ideas, does that seem like I was trying to steal from him? Either way, it is foolish to sit here an go back and fourth about it. My apology has been extended, suits are down. Lesson learned.

 

[Amail]

Really? I don't recall saying that at all? It appears that you are making your own assumptions about my thoughts an intentions.

So because Bio specializes in something I am not allowed to offer it as a side option now?

Ya, actually, really. You were clearly stumped as to why offering something Bio sells might be seen as a conflict.

If utilizing your ban button will bring you satisfaction, I understand.

Trust me, it's not something I take lightly.

 

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[bclark85]

Trust me, it's not something I take lightly.

I will do you one better, I will ban myself. Apparently competition is seen as "betrayal" around here and warrants a moderator with a heavy finger to utilize his ban button power easily. The funny thing is, I was NOT trying to compete with Bio what so ever. As you know, in business you will have competition, and whether you think it is me or any other person trolling these threads from the outside, if someone has the opportunity to do something better than you, they will. I was not attempting to do anything better than Bio, but learn from him. I see competition as a way for me to make sure I keep doing things better. Are you afraid that someone is going to come along and do something better than you? Is that why you get so upset easily? One website and a rookie coming in showing what he is trying to do gets you this worked up? If that is the case, I will let you get angry while I use competition to drive myself to do things better. You learn by trial and error, and as many preach on here....by finding something that you can do better. Obviously I wasn't trying to do anything with ghillie suits better than anyone, however the mere thought of competition came to this. Feel free to ban me, I won't be coming back.

 

[wade1mil]

I have created a new forum for entrepreneurs to join and talk about business.

It's exactly like this one, except the logo is different. So in reality, it's totally different.

Thanks for the inspiration to create something of my own from scratch MJ.

This is WAAAAAAAY worse than the other douche bag that stole the golf website IMO.

 

[Vigilante]

I have created a new forum for entrepreneurs to join and talk about business.

It's exactly like this one, except the logo is different. So in reality, it's totally different.

Thanks for the inspiration to create something of my own from scratch MJ.

This is WAAAAAAAY worse than the other douche bag that stole the golf website IMO.

Will the entrepreneurs at the new site borrow each other's business concepts and copyright protected materials while requesting help from the person they are ripping off, and then act like the victim when they get called on it? Lets call it the Slowlane Rip Off Victims Club.

Sounds awesome. I bet a ton of people will post there.

 

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[1step]

Out of respect for the amount of help he provided you maybe instead of offering the suits yourself you could have linked to his site and directed your customers there "if you need a guille suit check out our friends at ____ they provide the best suits" this is called a win win situation and would have likely paid you back much greater going into the future.

Of course based on your recent posts I still dont think you have "got it" you somehow still dont understand (or wont admit) what youve done wrong.

I have no doubt that even though you have "banned" yourself, that you will still see this post. It may not be to late to save face

 

[Amail]

Feel free to ban me, I won't be coming back.

The man wants a ban, the man gets a ban.

 

[Amail]

Out of respect for the amount of help he provided you maybe instead of offering the suits yourself you could have linked to his site and directed your customers there "if you need a guille suit check out our friends at ____ they provide the best suits" this is called a win win situation and would have likely paid you back much greater going into the future.

That is the best suggestion I've seen yet.

It may not be to late to save face

It's too late.

 

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[Vigilante]

6 months. Max.

 

[wade1mil]

Sounds awesome. I bet a ton of people will post there.

Once

Sadly, what the OP doesn't realize is the steps he's taken up to this point are only a tiny bit of what it takes to get to the level of the people that taught him everything. So, now when he needs their help the most, they aren't available to him. Importing a product from China and putting up a WordPress site takes an hour of actual work if you know what you're doing. The months afterwards is where the money is made. He is now floating out in the middle of an ocean, and nobody is there to guide him back to land. Good luck Repeat

 

[Amail]

6 months. Max.

I'll take the over.:smilielol:

 

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[biophase]

As I stated in my email to you I had absolutely no idea that you also sell camo netting.

Again, I had absoultely no idea that you also sell camo netting as you do not discuss it in any of your main threads and only refer to your ghillie stores in your sig.

Blake,

I have never mentioned what I sell in my threads. You would only know by reading my sig so I really find this hard to believe. My sig has included all my stores for years. I don't believe that you only went to the ghillie store link and not the other links. In fact, my ghillie suit store sells camo nets and tactical vests also. Being that you copied and paste my shipping & returns page leads me to believe that you have been to my site for longer than just a glance and somehow missed the camo nets and the tactical vest link?

Come on.

Yes, you have apologized to me via email and I really want to believe that you had no idea that what you were doing was shady. But look at how the others on this forum have responded. You are in the wrong here but you still can't see why.

It's not due to the competition, I know competition comes and goes. Many stores have come and gone in my 6 years of running my stores. I don't feel betrayed by any of them. The fact is that you got your knowledge and ideas from my thread which is what makes it not "just" competition. It's a personal thing and whether you believe it should or not, it is a personal attack on my business and it does help power my competitive drive.

I have a solution. How about you put the ghillie suits back onto your site and I'll add the Avery hunting blinds onto mine and we'll call it a day? How does that make you feel? Is it just competition?

 

[Amail]

Bio, I can't tell you how sorry I am this happened to you. You have been a torchbearer of business transparency for the benefit of any who care to follow along. To be f'd over like this by a forum member pisses me off more than I can adequately express.

Folks, let this thread serve as a lesson in astonishingly bad judgement.