The *New* Endangered Species... Your Job.

[fasteddienc]

There are many struggles in store but now it is quite common to hear of support for a guaranteed basic income or even to the extreme of a moneyless society. It makes sense that profit in many cases does hold us back from creating great things that last or use less resources. But without jobs to pay for automated goods things will have to change and adapt. Many already claim unemployment is much higher than reported, and if you have a Sheetz gas station in your town they already have touch screens to order food with.

For a great interview with a man I think is way before his time, and who has been passionate about the affects of a profit driven society on humanity, war, resources and environment, and who is 97 years old and still going strong with his ideas watch this:

 

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[Andy Black]

Also, robot's never suffer. That's the whole point of being a robot. But suffering is what leads to real art. I just listened to a bunch of music written by robots. It's sublime, beautiful stuff – music that I could drift off to.
But what's missing is the STORY. It's pure, beautiful sound. But there's nothing else to it. Listen to Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, and hear the work of a human who made his entire living off of composing music, who just found out he was GOING DEAF. Before he wrote that symphony, he seriously contemplated suicide. He was afraid to leave his house, because he couldn't hear what people were saying, and he didn't want to reveal the fact that he was a composer going deaf.
Then he overcomes it, dedicates himself to writing better music than ever before, and writes his first truly great symphony (he'd write six more). You can hear EVERYTHING in that symphony. It's not just beautiful music... it's HUMAN music.
Robots will never be able to accomplish something like that. A robot CAN create beauty, but not HUMAN beauty.

Wow... eloquently put.

If my software solution takes off, it will save companies at least six figures...and cost a lot of jobs.

It will cost "coal-face" jobs. I suspect the work will move upstream to more "knowledge workers".

If you ask me, I think the producers to consumer ratio is about to get realllllllly bad. It's bad now!

Yeah, everyone is going to be sat at home like vegetables, interacting with each other online. Reminds me of the film "Surrogates" with Bruce Willis in it.

 

[AlexanderCM]

Love CGP Grey's videos, I've been subscribed to his channel for a couple years.

That's definitely a refreshing video, it seems as though some of Hollywood's "movie future predictions" may actually come true...

 

[James Fake]

Engineers teach machines how to do new things. Soon, machines will be able to teach other machines based on research done jointly by humans and machines.

Soon, machines will be able to teach other machines how to become engineers to teach machines that will teach other machines to teach engineers.

 

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[James Fake]

Lots of billion dollar companies to be made in the next 25 years.. just like Microsoft and most $B companies; you dominate a market that doesn't quite exist yet until it hits mainstream and absolutely becomes a necessity to live like water.

With that said; in the next 25 years I will be building a new venture in..

MILITARY ROBOTS.

 

[Yeezy]

Wow, I had this in my clipboard ready to share on the forum.

This video is intriguing, and exciting.
Maybe to the average slowlaner/sidewalker this could mean loss of employment.
However to a fastlaner this should seem like a huge opportunity, a huge new industry that is about to change the world.

 

[Testament]

Hm...pretty scary stuff. But that does seem to beg the question, (with those consequences) why automate that much? If 99% of the world is unemployable and therefore without money, where will the money come from to keep paying for people to continue increasing robot productivity?

 

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[James Turchetto]

Not if but when, I guess at that point tech pioneers would want The Singularity to have occurred, or it could even come before. The technological singularity, or simply the singularity, is a hypothetical moment in time when an artificial intelligence interlocked with human existence will have progressed to the point of a level of intelligence or sophistication that radically changes civilization, and perhaps even human nature.

 

[Tengen]

Has anyone else read the Culture series written by Iain M Banks? When I think of a robot-enabled post scarcity utopia, that's how I hope it will turn out.

More likely we'll end up being like WALL-E though...

 

[fasteddienc]

Hm...pretty scary stuff. But that does seem to beg the question, (with those consequences) why automate that much? If 99% of the world is unemployable and therefore without money, where will the money come from to keep paying for people to continue increasing robot productivity?

That's the thing, is it really necessary to live an existence where our very survival depends on whether we have money for food, shelter, clothing, etc. Remember, we made it all up. The monetary system, taxes, the value of things, etc. I know it goes against everything we have ever known, but humans can do better. If you unleash science and technology to provide anything and everything for everyone, how can that be a bad thing.

Right now there are literally dozens of communities online that advocate a moneyless society. Check out The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, The Free World Charter, Moneyless Society, etc. Yes it all sounds hokey/new age and many will poo poo the idea cause it goes against all they know or have known.

Imagine a world of MJ DeMarco's that don't need the money, but are willing to contribute to the betterment of society as a whole. MJ doesn't has to provide this forum or write books, but he chooses to give something back. So yes, plenty of people would be inspired to find cures for cancer and other major problems without the need for profit. True passion in its purest form.

 

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[NerdAtCoolTable]

That's the thing, is it really necessary to live an existence where our very survival depends on whether we have money for food, shelter, clothing, etc. Remember, we made it all up. The monetary system, taxes, the value of things, etc. I know it goes against everything we have ever known, but humans can do better. If you unleash science and technology to provide anything and everything for everyone, how can that be a bad thing.

Right now there are literally dozens of communities online that advocate a moneyless society. Check out The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, The Free World Charter, Moneyless Society, etc. Yes it all sounds hokey/new age and many will poo poo the idea cause it goes against all they know or have known.

Imagine a world of MJ DeMarco's that don't need the money, but are willing to contribute to the betterment of society as a whole. MJ doesn't has to provide this forum or write books, but he chooses to give something back. So yes, plenty of people would be inspired to find cures for cancer and other major problems without the need for profit. True passion in its purest form.

Would be beautiful. Has somebody made a movie about this yet?

 

[tafy]

Would be beautiful. Has somebody made a movie about this yet?

Yep check out the zeitgeist on youtube

 

[fasteddienc]

Would be beautiful. Has somebody made a movie about this yet?

 

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[fasteddienc]

http://www.thevenusproject.com/
They are also working on a new documentary series which was fully funded on kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thechoiceisours/the-choice-is-ours-documentary-series

 

[Nur]

all machines need repairs or MRO (maintenance repair overhaul)

 

[pickeringmt]

We will know that we have reached this point when the ONLY commercial on TV is for the ITT Technical Institute Certificate for Robot Maintenance Technician program.

 

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[fasteddienc]

I also find this interesting as Elon Musk seems to have an interesting agenda http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianso...elon-musk-releases-patents-to-good-faith-use/

http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2014/08/photos-day-elon-musks-hyperloop-transport

 

[Deleted0x8687]

Fascinating thread and video. Two thoughts I have on this:

1. Just as many jobs will become obsolete, many others will be created that don't exist yet. I work in IT and when I came out of high school, just 25 years ago, my job/industry didn't even exist. It's a vast field that is constantly evolving. Many have been saying that the "cloud" is going to kill off IT jobs. We're still going strong and growing. I do believe from experience that automation creates about as many as it replaces, but it really depends on your industry. Regardless of working for yourself or for others others, educating yourself and constantly developing your skill set will be key.

2. This futuristic vision (even if relatively close), predisposes that the masses will continue to have to have "jobs" to survive. What is the purpose of jobs other than to make money? The purpose of money is to buy things needed for survival: food, clothing, shelter, at the most basic of human hierarchical needs. However many societies exist where people work together to provide what they need to survive and nothing more. Yes, socialism. I'm not denouncing capitalism at all, and think one would be wise to always have a means to support oneself through business if possible, but we could see a more socialistic future as a result of technological advances, which I admit, doesn't sound very fun.

 

[AdrianMC]

The one thing that robots are missing is consciousness. A robot isn't aware of itself.

Great post, but I just wanted to ask. How can YOU prove that you are "aware" of yourself? This is taken from the movie Transcendence, where some humans ask the AI "Can you prove that you are self-aware?" and the AI responds, "Can you?"

 

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[Deleted0x8687]

Expanding on my first thought above, I think there is a LOT of potential for educational entrepreneurship. Selling online courses, ebooks, etc. Education has already been a billion dollar industry for years. Now it's possible to create your own course and sell it online (Udemy, etc.).

People will ALWAYS buy information that will help them solve problems or become better at health, wealth and relationships.

Learning new skills. Teaching sells...

 

[Syc]

Expanding on my first thought above, I think there is a LOT of potential for educational entrepreneurship. Selling online courses, ebooks, etc. Education has already been a billion dollar industry for years. Now it's possible to create your own course and sell it online (Udemy, etc.).

People will ALWAYS buy information that will help them solve problems or become better at health, wealth and relationships.

Learning new skills. Teaching sells...

Even content creation is already being outsourced. Non-fiction as well as fiction books...

1) http://singularityhub.com/2012/12/1...ds-of-thousands-of-amazon-books-and-counting/
2) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9764416.stm

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Fascinating thread and video.

I'm fascinated that so many people took 15 minutes to view it. Usually 15 is too long.... TL;DV

How can YOU prove that you are "aware" of yourself?

Oh boy, could be a tangent worthy of another 3 pages.

 

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[hotshot]

How can YOU prove that you are "aware" of yourself?

I don't think it's possible to prove self awareness to another individual. It's one of our greatest dilemmas. Much the same way that you can never truly convey the "greenness of green" to another individual. How can I ever be sure that my green is the same as your green, it's my personal biological interpretation of an EM wavelength.

On the subject of robots becoming self-aware. It is definitely possible. In Thomas Metzinger's book "The Ego Tunnel" he describes precisely what consciousness is. Here's a quote which sums up the minimum requirements for creating a conscious robot: "...every conscious system needs a unified inner representation of the world and that the information integrated by this representation must be simultaneously available for a multitude of processing mechanisms." This doesn't sound too difficult does it? He actually advises against creating conscious robots because of ethical issues. The earliest generations of conscious robots are sure to have defects and we'll have no way of knowing exactly how they feel inside. And humans will become obsolete of course.

 

[Justin079]

Great vid! I honestly do believe that it's only a matter of time before robotics will get to a stage where they become self aware, figure out time travel and then send Big Arnie back to wipe us all out!!

The big message i get from this is to not settle, make your own moves and get yourself as secure as possible, because hell know's no one else will do it for you!

 

[Darius]

Better start taking action before they create a Robot that can spot opportunities, solve the problems, then teach the robots in that industry, how to execute it.

 

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[Ikke]

Just look what has happened in the past during the industrialization.

Before industrialization there where a lot of jobs in creating life's primary necessities (food, shelter etc). Everybody had a job but they required hard work for little returns (wealth, quality of life etc.).

During the industrial revolution automation made it's first move. Think of weaving machines that could outwork 50 people or big forging hamers that would outperform any blacksmith.

This caused unemployment for some and very hard job for others (100 hours a week, bad conditions etc).

After this early imbalance things smoothed out to a situation where more people work less time a week (40 hours a week).

People also earned more money, not necessarily because they were more productive, but also because the producer needs a consumer. There always has to be a balance between production and consumption. If the consumers stop consuming the production simply stop.

I can only expect the same to happen with this second automation wave. First there will be great inequalities between the employers (producers) and the employees (consumer). But it will even out over time just has it happened in the past.

Workweeks will probably become shorter while consumption goes up.

Therefor I will welcome the future while trying to surf on the wave of automation, instead of being drowned by it.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

This is a huge moral dilemma I guess as well. We are choosing to create less jobs so what will we encourage in way of new industries to make up for this? ( GMO/ anti population stuff- doesn't count! )

Do you want to live in a world full of robots and everything being automated as to isolate and remove the human equation?

This change is not a choice. It's a fact. It's an inevitability. The Luddites will never, ever win in the long haul. If we try to force the retention of "living wage jobs", other countries will outcompete us. And eventually attack us with their robots and take our shit.

Employers are increasingly powerful, not less so. What is actually happening is "Careers" are getting shorter, and dollar-based consumption in the post-industrial nations is moderating.

It's an extremely dangerous sentiment, but I think this time is so different from the first industrial revolution that we cannot use it as a model. Industrial factories and battlefields needed more humans than they could get. We remade our educational systems and marketing systems to get people to agree to work in a factory 40hrs/wk, take orders well enough to run machines on the battlefield and repeatedly climb out of trenches to charge machine guns for no damn good reason at all, and modern marketing arose to teach people how to consume so much stuff they had to work, no matter how lousy or dehumanizing those hours were.

Youth today, care little about cars, they are purchasing so few Detroit is getting nervous. They have been trained to consume free products, software based networks and media is pretty much available in any kind in any amount for only the cost of a smartphone; people have proven to demand these beyond anything. Smartphone and gaming console demand did not slow down in 2009 like everything else, they grew. Legal drugs are also increasingly available and consumed, including the Soma of BNW. These are cheap, and getting cheaper, financial, legal and social/reputational costs all . This is lucky, because we also are running up against resource limitations as the democratization of value through computers brings up people around the world. We are not going to be able to dangle Mustangs and ever bigger houses in front of 10billion people as motivation to go to work and keep from causing trouble. Even within the US we seem to have run out of the ability to do it this way. We eat so much it kills us, we live in houses so big we text message each other at home rather than interact, we worship brands, in our stuff and educations, and we need 3 car garages, along with a mini-storage, to secure all our unused stuff. We grew these appetites to the point the majority has to go in to massive debt to support the lifestyle.

We are headed to a new place, and the pace of change is unprecedented save for natural disasters.

 

[fasteddienc]

This change is not a choice. It's a fact. It's an inevitability. The Luddites will never, ever win in the long haul. If we try to force the retention of "living wage jobs", other countries will outcompete us. And eventually attack us with their robots and take our shit.

Employers are increasingly powerful, not less so. What is actually happening is "Careers" are getting shorter, and dollar-based consumption in the post-industrial nations is moderating.

It's an extremely dangerous sentiment, but I think this time is so different from the first industrial revolution that we cannot use it as a model. Industrial factories and battlefields needed more humans than they could get. We remade our educational systems and marketing systems to get people to agree to work in a factory 40hrs/wk, take orders well enough to run machines on the battlefield and repeatedly climb out of trenches to charge machine guns for no damn good reason at all, and modern marketing arose to teach people how to consume so much stuff they had to work, no matter how lousy or dehumanizing those hours were.

Youth today, care little about cars, they are purchasing so few Detroit is getting nervous. They have been trained to consume free products, software based networks and media is pretty much available in any kind in any amount for only the cost of a smartphone; people have proven to demand these beyond anything. Smartphone and gaming console demand did not slow down in 2009 like everything else, they grew. Legal drugs are also increasingly available and consumed, including the Soma of BNW. These are cheap, and getting cheaper, financial, legal and social costs all . This is lucky, because we also are running up against resource limitations as the democratization of value through computers brings up people around the world. We are not going to be able to dangle Mustangs and ever bigger houses in front of 10billion people as motivation to go to work and keep from causing trouble. Even within the US we seem to have run out of the ability to do it this way. We eat so much it kills us, we live in houses so big we text message each other at home rather than interact, we worship brands, in our stuff and educations, and we need 3 car garages, along with a mini-storage, to secure all our unused stuff. We grew these appetites to the point the majority has to go in to massive debt to support the lifestyle.

We are headed to a new place, and the pace of change is unprecedented save for natural disasters.

So true. "Minimalism" is becoming a movement as are an avalanche of books on getting rid of stuff that really weighs us and and our time down with the maintenance and space required.

Many articles are showing how people now get on social media to show their vacation pics to awesome places, whereas before they were showing off their "stuff". People now value experiences more to the point that people are competing to show where they've been, not what they've bought.

Times are changing for sure.

 

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[Mineralogic]

So true. "Minimalism" is becoming a movement as are an avalanche of books on getting rid of stuff that really weighs us and and our time down with the maintenance and space required.

Many articles are showing how people now get on social media to show their vacation pics to awesome places, whereas before they were showing off their "stuff". People now value experiences more to the point that people are competing to show where they've been, not what they've bought.

Times are changing for sure.

there is even the LITTLE HOUSE movement

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Don't fall for the hype. Travel has extraordinary amounts of time and money into the marketing of the product, like any other "stuff". It is no more experiential than driving a Porsche, though among some crowds it does carry more social currency.

The thing to realize is you are after peak experiences, and most people want them to impress people within certain social groups.