Making Money For Dummies (And In a Crowded Market)

[IceCreamKid]

I'm pretty sure that Andy Black is the reason why people are acting less like assholes and more human on the forum these days. The mods set a tone that everyone else follows and it's clear as day to me that the Andy Black effect is in full force.

 

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[MTF]

Thank you, @IceCreamKid, that's very useful. I'm not from the US and things in my country are different, but I guess that some of the basics are the same or similar. I need to learn more about it and see whether it's something I can do (it's possible it doesn't work as well in my country; the US is a different world).

As for "buying distressed commercial real estate then tweaking things to force up the value of the asset," do you mean rehabbing, as in, buying them, fixing, and selling - in other words, flipping - or cashflow play? Also, are you talking about using other people's money for these deals rather than your own? I understand you don't have much experience with it - just asking for a clarification.

As for shifting to the investor quadrant, I just save the majority of my monthly income (substantial considering my living expenses) and can't reinvest it in my business because it's not capital-intensive. That's why I'm looking for options to invest my money in a different way (than just let it sit in my savings account). I don't really want to start another business (like you, I prefer to have more freedom) and would rather make my money work for me.

 

[Weaponize]

Never fear...

The Andy Black effect is in full force

( I couldn't resist. Don't ban me. Love yea Andy! )

 

[Andy Black]

Every single day I encounter some local business where it's like "This biz+ online magic (ppc, social/groupon, etc.) + savvy PR and the ability to process orders=Market disrupting local breakout."

The average business owner just wants a steady stream of phone calls from prospects, so they can go out and do billable work.

They don't have the inclination, or the time, to learn how to do that marketing stuff, especially that online marketing stuff.

If you're in this forum then you've already got skillz on the internet (seriously, go watch your average tradesman try and use a keyboard, never mind send an email).

If you've hung around this forum for any length of time then you've also picked up enough marketing knowledge to put you waaay ahead of the average local business owner.

People wanting to get started, all you need is to understand basic ad buying and copy (if only someone on here could help with that), determination, and eyes.

This post is probably the one to start with: Lead Gen for Local Service Businesses

And if you've access to the Speedway forum you might want to read The AdWords Jumpstart.

If you've a mind to descend further down the rabbit hole, you can then read all the posts linked to in this thread.

Note that this is all about AdWords paid search. Of course there are many many other online and offline marketing channels.

This thread could have inspired people to try their hand at any number home care possibilities: Driveway paving/sealing, window replacement, tiling, wood refinishing, interior painting, appliance maintenence, etc.

There's soooo many local service business verticals.

From one of the posts linked to above:

I've been meaning to write down all the verticals I've generated traffic, leads, and sales for so I might as well do that here. I'll be interested in seeing that list spew from my brain too.

So here's a brain dump in no particular order, where the monetisation could have been any or all of the above, and to varying degrees of success (including outright failure):

Electricians, plumbers, appliance repairs, window repairs, roof repairs, pest control, locksmiths, personal trainers, dieticians, nutritionists, chiropractors, physios, dentists, doctors, plastic surgeons, estate agents, houses|flats|apartments|condos for rent|sale, car insurance, home insurance, travel insurance, breakdown cover, car finance, payday loans, car hire, limo hire, coach hire, tyres|tires, tickets, cinemas, restaurants, bars, cafes, afternoon tea, massage, spas, salons, hair-dressers, pedicures, manicures, car repairs|servicing, mechanics, health insurance, flights, hotels, B&Bs, gyms, training, courses, classes, photographers, wedding planners, wedding packages, graphic designers, programmers, developers, architects, builders, cleaners, jobs (all sorts), accountants, solicitors|attorneys|lawyers|law firms, security alarms|systems, letting agents, comedy clubs, yacht charter, cruise ship charter, opticians, laser surgery, yoga, salsa, pilates, teeth whitening, funeral directors, telemarketers, call centres, book-keepers, building materials, pre-cast concrete, print design, business cards, motorbike repairs|servicing, removals, bands, djs, wedding rings, schools, colleges, handymen, painters, decorators, home cinema, tattoo, tattoo removal, child care, vets, facials, dry-cleaning, paragliding, shooting ranges, hypnosis, zoos, boot camps, wine bars, helicopter rides, laser hair removal, nlp, liposuction, golf courses, things to do, the weather...

Maybe you can get some ideas from that list.

 

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[IceCreamKid]

Thank you, @IceCreamKid, that's very useful. I'm not from the US and things in my country are different, but I guess that some of the basics are the same or similar. I need to learn more about it and see whether it's something I can do (it's possible it doesn't work as well in my country; the US is a different world).

You can trade US equities from any country using an account from Interactive Brokers. I'm not sure what your financial situation is, but be aware that they require a $10k deposit in order to open an account with them. I use them and have been quite impressed with their 24-hour customer service and low fees.

As for "buying distressed commercial real estate then tweaking things to force up the value of the asset," do you mean rehabbing, as in, buying them, fixing, and selling - in other words, flipping - or cashflow play? Also, are you talking about using other people's money for these deals rather than your own? I understand you don't have much experience with it - just asking for a clarification.

Cashflow play. Start out teaming up with others to buy one deal then slowly increase your wealth until you get to the point where you can buy large properties with your own money. If you pick up the book, "How To Buy and Sell Apartments" by Vollucci you'll find the strategy detailed out in there.

 

[Chitown]

This isn't directed at you individually. I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and be less cynical/sarcastic and more helpful thanks to @Andy Black 's beneficent example, but it's pretty demoralizing that whenever anyone posts specific details of a minor success they've had (@biophase with the soap, this, @SinisterLex with the freelancing) what immediately happens is not innovation, but a chorus of "me too!"s as person after person rushes to do the exact. same. thing. I had at least 10 PMs after I posted some of my older threads where people were asking me about car flipping. And not just the legality/mechanics, oh no, they wanted me to sort through a pile of links and literally tell them which cars to buy and what to resell them for.

This thread could have inspired people to try their hand at any number home care possibilities: Driveway paving/sealing, window replacement, tiling, wood refinishing, interior painting, appliance maintenence, etc. No, instead, it looks like several people are all going to go and start carpet care businesses, because I'll be darned if we're going to do even one thing creative or different or more laborious than just wholesale ripping off of something else someone has completely laid out. Then it gets even worse when real money is involved a la @biophase 's mentee/copycat or @JasonR 's copycats. It's getting to the point where basically anyone without a patent or oversees manufacture with laborious design work that would take five figures and eight-twelve months to replicate (basically, enough of a barrier that a Wantrepreneur dreams about it but gets tired two weeks later and moves on) immediately incites a swarm of clones or near-as-makes-no-difference clones.

There's a big world out there. Yes, it includes carpet cleaning. But it's bigger than carpet cleaning. If your heart is set on carpets, don't let anyone stop you, but don't just rush to do whatever someone successful did because that's the thread du jour and it's turning some kind of profit. Come on people, we're all better than that.

@RHL,

Amen, brother!

 

[Chitown]

No, but I do think that every entrepreneur should learn about stock option investing.

@IceCreamKid,

When I worked on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange in '05 the people who intrigued me the most were the options traders. Man, they as may as well have been doing martian arithmetic for all I knew - it was all over my head. Some of traders had advanced degrees in mathematics.

I purchased books on options trading but never really cracked them open because I wasn't confident that my math skills were tight enough, to be perfectly honest.

There were guys down there doing - no joke - seven to eight figures a year trading options. One trader in particular, Larry Fields, routinely traded 3,000 - 5,000 options contracts. Doing exotic shit like butterfly spreads! With 5,000 contracts! Word in the pits was Mr. Fields' average annual gross was $15,000,000 - $25,000,000. Here is an article on him.

http://www.artspace.com/magazine/interviews_features/on_the_wall/fields_collection_tour-51676

I would love to hear how you go about your business with regards to options. It should be pretty interesting.

 

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[IceCreamKid]

I would love to hear how you go about your business with regards to options. It should be pretty interesting.

Thank you for your interest brother. When the time is right, I will reveal all of the secrets on how professionals trade stock options to consistently bank profit every month from the market. Wall Street wants you to think that you have to be a mathematical genius to win with options, but I assure you this is a lie. I finished college with a 2.75 gpa and my weakest subject was math. It's really hard to do well academically when you walk into the classroom everyday thinking, "this whole thing is a scam".

Unfortunately I don't have permission to reveal all of the secrets right now, but when I get the green light I will go ahead and post some tutorials along with some actual trade examples so you can get a better feel for how things work. It's going to be tough to make these tutorials because I have a REALLY hard time time explaining options to people. It feels like teaching them another language.

 

[DaRK9]

.
Other problems…

Realtors. They are the bane of my existence. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve encountered a realtor that has tried to screw me.

I did RE photography for a bit as a hobbyist photographer.

Will never do again because of realtors.

 

[Chitown]

Will never do again because of realtors.

@DaRK9,

Would you care to elaborate?

 

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[DaRK9]

@DaRK9,

Would you care to elaborate?

Don't want to derail the thread too much, but it was constant price haggling and asking for discounts etc. Most of the realtors didn't care about quality and just wanted pictures that were slightly above average. So above average prices seemed absurd to them.

Most realtors are actually terrible marketers in my experience and did not get the value of professional pictures.

I did work with some good people, but they were heavily outnumbered.

 

[IceCreamKid]

Most realtors are actually terrible marketers in my experience

Hmmm I'm sensing an idea that needs an executioner from this...someone please create a course teaching realtors how to use direct response marketing tactics.

Bust out the clickbait and start the funnel...3 Dangerous Mistakes Rookie Realtors Make. Just give us your e-mail to receive a free e-book revealing how to avoid them.

 

[DaRK9]

Hmmm I'm sensing an idea that needs an executioner from this...someone please create a course teaching realtors how to use direct response marketing tactics.

Bust out the clickbait and start the funnel...3 Dangerous Mistakes Rookie Realtors Make. Just give us your e-mail to receive a free e-book revealing how to avoid them.

Honestly not a bad thought. A quick google search gives me a bunch of half-assed blog posts.

More on topic, my dad used to work for Servpro and I always told him he should run his own company.
Just a few months ago I was thinking about carpet cleaning and restoration. I worked for him sometimes so I know the bare-bone basics.

 

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[Andy Black]

Hmmm I'm sensing an idea that needs an executioner from this...someone please create a course teaching realtors how to use direct response marketing tactics.

Bust out the clickbait and start the funnel...3 Dangerous Mistakes Rookie Realtors Make. Just give us your e-mail to receive a free e-book revealing how to avoid them.

It probably lends itself well to local lead gen via paid search. There's a LOT of relevant, and long-tail, geo-modified searches that indicate someone is looking to buy, rent, or sell a property in a particular location. There's also searches for people looking for realtors by location.

I've run these campaigns in the US and UK, just not for capturing contact details.

 

[Andy Black]

"Most _____ are terrible marketers in my experience."


That's applicable to every type of business owner, including marketers.

 

[aks]

By doing this, you discourage the mail carriers from dumping all of your mail in the trash bin. I double check this by contacting customers every so often to make sure that they received their EDDM mail piece.

It is essential to have systems in place for everything otherwise you risk trading time for money.

It is essential to have systems in place for everything otherwise you risk trading time for money. -->knowledge

By doing this, you discourage the mail carriers from dumping all of your mail in the trash bin. I double check this by contacting customers every so often to make sure that they received their EDDM mail piece.--> action

thanks Ice cream kid, an excellent reminder. Most people just dont want to think through the problem or act. I think its the most important thing that makes a businessman sucessfull. without action we all will be only philosophers.

 

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[business_man]

@IceCreamKid thank you for great thread. Few questions.

How much involvement is needed at the moment in this business?
Do you have working system right now to create same business in other city for example? Than how you control and keep track on your employees or outsourced contractors?

There are unprecedented incidents in business from time to time, with customers usually, who solves them? Does it still needs your involvement?

 

[Sheps]

@IceCreamKid,

When I worked on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange in '05 the people who intrigued me the most were the options traders. Man, they as may as well have been doing martian arithmetic for all I knew - it was all over my head. Some of traders had advanced degrees in mathematics.

I purchased books on options trading but never really cracked them open because I wasn't confident that my math skills were tight enough, to be perfectly honest.

There were guys down there doing - no joke - seven to eight figures a year trading options. One trader in particular, Larry Fields, routinely traded 3,000 - 5,000 options contracts. Doing exotic shit like butterfly spreads! With 5,000 contracts! Word in the pits was Mr. Fields' average annual gross was $15,000,000 - $25,000,000. Here is an article on him.

http://www.artspace.com/magazine/interviews_features/on_the_wall/fields_collection_tour-51676

I would love to hear how you go about your business with regards to options. It should be pretty interesting.

If you're looking for immersion then I'd like to recommend Stocktwits.com. It's literally a Twitter copy just for the market. I've found most on there open to educate because it's somethig they enjoy (why else join a social media about a thing)?

Separating the wheat from the chaff though is all on you.

I haven't checked out the trading sub forum here yet, that's likely to contain a wealth of knowledge you'll want to capitalise on based on what I've seen the last few days.

Apologies for thread drift.
I'm new here so if I commited a faux pas recommending another sight I apologise, that's on me. Probably should have looked for a new members or forum rules thread but been so excited learning, it didn't occur to me till now.

ETA - IceCreamKid, great thread, thank you for sharing your insight and thought process. Cool to actually "see" innovation and smart work combined.

 

[Guest24480]

I've been thinking about the posts in this thread a lot lately. Cold, hard, offline business really exites me because it has the potential to grow quickly in comparison to say, building an app. Scaling it and putting the necessary pieces in place to seperate your time from the business is the majority of the process once you get everything set up. The focus is on growth and marketing, and if you do that better than the competition you're golden. The service already has a cemented and proven demand.

Ecommerce was always the route I thought I would take, but the amount of time I would be sitting in front of the computer kind of deters me from it. I spend enough time at the computer as it is. I want to get myself out there and gain real-world experience. Coupled with my doubts in the control aspect of placing your sales in Amazon's hands, I'm starting to think twice about it.

Now, I'm not going to do carpet cleaning because I wouldn't feel true to myself doing so. It just doesn't excite me enough nor does the situation I'm in present me with a logistically sound atmosphere to make it practical. I won't go into the details, but that's the case unfortunately.

But this thread got me thinking a bit: I'm a college student. Every day I see people walking around with shattered phone cases, most often the result of a drunken mishap or in some cases, good old fashioned clumsiness. The school I go to is in a rough area, so many students would be hesitant to wander off campus and find a place to get their phone fixed. Otherwise, they would have to take a train into the better part of the city which costs extra money and is a huge hassle.

So why not bring the service right to my campus? Start small, seek out a few tech-savvy students who need extra cash who want to fix phones for me, and expand to other schools in the area to scale it? Brand it around college students and engage them on social media (they love their social media) and even pursue a mail-in service in the future as I expand furthur?

I hope I didn't share too many details on here, but this isn't a revolutionary concept as there's a clear demand. I would just do it beter than the competition. What do you think?

Edit: Just a few thoughts after thinking this through more. One problem I may run into lies in having to carry inventory of all the repair parts. With so many different types of phones out there (Galaxy, different iPhone models), I'm not sure how I would go about that.

 

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[IceCreamKid]

How much involvement is needed at the moment in this business?
Do you have working system right now to create same business in other city for example? Than how you control and keep track on your employees or outsourced contractors?

There are unprecedented incidents in business from time to time, with customers usually, who solves them? Does it still needs your involvement?

At this moment I work on the biz 1 day a week. Don't get me wrong though, there were a ton of hours put in on the front-end making mistakes and experimenting with different procedures. Most of my time and energy is being focused on my next biz because it has both scale and magnitude.

Yes, I have all of the systems in place to create the same biz in another city. The only thing that might need tweaking is the criteria used for the EDDM campaigns. In my area, I found the best bang for the $$$ to target white neighborhoods that are middle to upper middle class. Targeting the ultra wealthy neighborhoods didn't yield very good results.

Utilize surveys with your customers in order to keep track of how good of a job your employees do. Be slow to hire and quick to fire. If you get a bad feeling about an employee, get rid of them fast. I know this advice is bit harsh, but if you wait then you increase your risk. I waited on firing an employee and ended up getting sued. Lesson learned.

If there is a problem with a customer, I'm usually the one who steps in to solve them. I do this because I want the customer to feel confidence that the owner of the biz cares. Luckily there are hardly any problems in this biz because the process of cleaning is so simple and straightforward. Sometimes people are satisfied just by the fact that you made some attempt to help them, even if you didn't achieve their desired goal.

 

[IceCreamKid]

So why not bring the service right to my campus? Start small, seek out a few tech-savvy students who need extra cash who want to fix phones for me, and expand to other schools in the area to scale it? Brand it around college students and engage them on social media (they love their social media) and even pursue a mail-in service in the future as I expand furthur?

I hope I didn't share too many details on here, but this isn't a revolutionary concept as there's a clear demand. I would just do it beter than the competition. What do you think?

This biz doesn't fit all of my requirements(primarily recurring revenue and magnitude). That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad biz. It just means that I wouldn't go into it because it's not aligned with my financial goals.

If there is recurring revenue, I don't mind making a small dollar amount on each sale because I know that the Lifetime Customer Value will be higher.

If it is going to be a one-time sale, I want a higher profit per customer. The hardest part in biz is acquiring a new customer. We live in a time where customers do tons of research before deciding that they trust you. This is why if you want to have a one-time sale type of biz you'll want to make a high profit per customer.

Back in college I would make $200-400 profit every Friday night by setting up a table on campus selling $1 carne asada tacos to the drunk kids. It certainly wasn't scalable, but if you're a college kid that wants some cool beer money then it's a timeless biz model with low risk. Just make sure to bring some protection with you. I was handling both the food preparation and the money. I ended up getting surrounded and robbed once by a bunch of belligerent drunk kids.

 

[Nicko]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread, thanks.

I have a mate with a very successful plumbing business and he prides himself on providing a premium service at a premium price.

All of his team must be cleanly shaved, presentable and wear the company 'uniform' (no ripped jeans and five o'clock shadow) and to encourage repeat business from his existing customers, he sends out a Christmas card each year with a scratch lottery ticket.

 

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[Nomangee]

Then one day I had a 2 hour long talk with a guy I highly admired.

Nice you met with Dane. When I read about your expertise in DRM, I thought you are maybe both together in his new venture.

And thanks for an awesome thread, got me thinking about helping a friend of mine in his local business startup, to become a part of his team as a marketing guy, as this could be scalled infinitely, he needs "only" customers.

It's also such an "unsexy" business. At first when I saw it, I thought why he is doing it!?!? He had the biggest ecommerce business in germany in a particular niche. But then I heared about the scalability, recurring revenue and high margins and was fascinated. Basically it's about the safety control of machines, electric devices etc for businesses, as thats a law here to have them certified. Shortly explained an engineer will look the decives up and if everything is ok gets a sticker on it, that it's safe and these investigations are recurring.

One problem I see is, that he not only wants to compete on quality, but also on price. Which means he will be offering x% lower price then any of his competitors to crush them and become the 1st player in whole Germany. It's a high margin game, therefor he could make it, but as you said it's a downward spiral.

So how would you target such customers, as he would operate in a whole region right at the beginning?

 

[IceCreamKid]

One problem I see is, that he not only wants to compete on quality, but also on price. Which means he will be offering x% lower price then any of his competitors to crush them and become the 1st player in whole Germany. It's a high margin game, therefor he could make it, but as you said it's a downward spiral.

So how would you target such customers, as he would operate in a whole region right at the beginning?

Honestly, I wouldn't try to compete on price primarily because the human mind is WEIRD.

True story...

There was an experiment done in which a group of people were blindfolded and given 2 separate slices of cake. They were told that one slice was $5 and the other slice was a $50 slice of cake. Their job was to figure out which cake was the expensive one.

What they weren't told was that all of the slices came from the same cake.

EVERYONE from the group started making up justifications in their mind of how one slice had far better flavor, moisture, and consistency than the other.

With consumers, they often assume that a higher price means higher quality. This is the primary reason why I charge sky high rates. It's actually easier to get customers in my niche with higher prices. Weird, but true.

Test your prices. You just might be surprised by how demand changes.

 

[Sheps]

Are you saying that higher perceived value equates to higher actual value? From a consumer stand point.

 

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[ilrein]

Are you saying that higher perceived value equates to higher actual value? From a consumer stand point.

Only that one associates cost with value, and it's up to you to capitalize on that perception; being the real deal will bring repeat business.

 

[MakeItHappen]

Are you saying that higher perceived value equates to higher actual value? From a consumer stand point.

Is there any other value than perceived value?

 

[RHL]

Are you saying that higher perceived value equates to higher actual value? From a consumer stand point.

This is true in a lot of ways. Almost every car enthusiast says that in terms of ride quality, fit, finish, speed (at least in the real world and not with a seasoned pro driving) and comfort the Porsche GT3 RS and 911 Turbo S are superior to the Aventador.

But ask the same enthusiasts which brand they'd rather have in their garage... the story usually changes pretty quick.

Is there any other value than perceived value?

Yeah for sure. Fire a Wilson Combat 1911 and then fire one made by Ruger or IMI. Does it make up for costing seven times more? Eh, probably not, but that's not to say that delivering a product that solves the need in a superior way isn't real objective "value."

 

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[EN_VY]

I built a site for a guy that did EDDM.. It was a salon shop and he wanted a booking system.. EDDM brought a lot of traffic to that new site. It works for a lot of businesses. I know we live in the internet age, but some old school ways still work

 

[xavi22]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Joe Polish in this thread. He's the king of marketing for carpet cleaners and has been around for a while. That just says how lucrative this can be if you lay down a strong marketing system with this or any business.