Would you buy a Tesla if...

[GuestUser140]

Would you buy a Tesla if...

• you live in a country where gas costs (the equivalent of) $5/gallon
• annual road tax / car registration for the car is $0
• the car is fully tax deductible
• the car costs $70k

Just want to hear some opinions out there!

Any model S owners? What's your experience?

 

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[DaRK9]

I never understood the Tesla / Entrepreneur infatuation. It seems like no one besides younger Entrepreneurs even care about owning a Tesla.

Would rather have an F-Type if given the choice in that budget. Plus, if I can afford (my version of afford differs from most) a $70k car, I couldn't care less about deductions, gas prices, taxes.

 

[GuestUser140]

Would rather have an F-Type if given the choice in that budget. Plus, if I can afford (my version of afford differs from most) a $70k car, I couldn't care less about deductions, gas prices, taxes.

Well, where I live in Europe, owning an $85k Tesla is cheaper than a $30k Mercedes C due to tax incentives for businesses. It doesn't use gas, either.

 

[phenom4hire]

Ill always take a muscle car I can work on myself over all this new stuff thats out now. But Im not your average person when it comes to cars anyway.

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[Michael Burgess]

I'm a huge fan of Tesla... not just because I think their cars are beautiful, fast, and functional (bioweapon defense mode anybody!?!)... but I love what they stand for.

Knowing that the cars support the transition to a fossil-fuel free society is definitely worth an extra cost to me, and I'll probably own a Tesla or another fully-electric car in the future. Nice to see that other cars are forced to keep up with the level of innovation that Tesla Motors is pumping out.

P.S. I wonder if more younger people care about Teslas because of environmental values?

 

[phenom4hire]

Im sure they do and they are beautiful cars but people forget that even though the cars are aiming for a particular stance towards the environment that they still use fossil fueled energy to produce and that the batteries themselves are/can be an environmental hazard. Ill take them and their stance on the environment more seriously when they produce a quality car everyone can afford.

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[Bouncing Soul]

The main environmental value of an electric car is not that the total lifecycle produces less emissions, it doesn't, but that it produces different kinds of pollution than fossil fuel vehicles, which is great.

We had a Leaf that we bought solely for the car pool exemption, but it ended up being a low cost of ownership car. Also pretty interesting to own, awesome in traffic or for quick runs to the store. The answer is yes, provided this is a financially sound decision otherwise.

 

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[Michael Burgess]

Tesla's don't necessarily have to use fossil fuel energy (eg. solar, tidal power, geothermal, etc...) to generate electricity. Even if the electricity is generated by using petroleum, the cars get significantly better mileage than a car with an internal combustion engine per unit of oil. Power plants are much more efficient at extracting energy than a cars engine.

Finally, Tesla Motors is working hard to produce a mass market car that's due in around two years. Their "master plan" required they first create a high end luxury car to fund the development and infrastructure of the mass market care. I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, but my vote's definitely on Elon and Tesla.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Tesla's don't necessarily have to use fossil fuel energy (eg. solar, tidal power, geothermal, etc...) to generate electricity. Even if the electricity is generated by using petroleum, the cars get significantly better mileage than a car with an internal combustion engine per unit of oil. Power plants are much more efficient at extracting energy than a cars engine.

Yes, you're a fanboy. They're, at best, slightly less environmentally dirty than buying a brand new, comparable luxury car. Good chart here-

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1844012-tesla-cars-are-not-an-environmental-abomination

 

[Duane]

Tesla's don't necessarily have to use fossil fuel energy (eg. solar, tidal power, geothermal, etc...) to generate electricity. Even if the electricity is generated by using petroleum, the cars get significantly better mileage than a car with an internal combustion engine per unit of oil. Power plants are much more efficient at extracting energy than a cars engine.

Finally, Tesla Motors is working hard to produce a mass market car that's due in around two years. Their "master plan" required they first create a high end luxury car to fund the development and infrastructure of the mass market care. I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, but my vote's definitely on Elon and Tesla.

I'm gunna have to go with Bouncing Soul on this one, I'm gunna give a detailed explanation below for those wanting the hard facts, but electric cars pollute more than gas cars. I believe in global warming and I would like to lower our polluting ways, but as it stands that's the truth. I am only making this post to educate ppl so they don't get tricked into thinking they're doing the environment good by buying electric cars, cause that's false as it stands. It doesn't matter how someone would like the car to be charged, the majority of people will charge their cars from their house, and not many people have solar panels. So almost all of that power will come from coal. Almost none of it will come from solar or wind (speaking in terms of general public, there are a few people with solar panels running their house.) They also have storing old battery problems. Those batteries run out way faster than gas powered cars batteries do, and disposing of batteries is still a huge problem needing to be solved (wink wink).


Explanation as to why gas powered cars>electric cars:

I've worked in quite a few power plants and it's roughly 25 mJ/kg for coal's energy density, called specific energy. Gasoline is roughly 50 mJ/kg (using density of gasoline, you can convert from mJ/L to mJ/kg). So gasoline produces twice as much energy per kg of substance, and it also pollutes a lot less than coal (we filter the hell out of the exit gas stream and it barely meets regulation for the mol% aloud of CO2 being poured into the atmosphere. Gasoline doesn't have to filter any and is way below regulation for CO2).

That's why a lot of plants are building natural gas burners, it's twice as efficient and pollutes less CO2. However, every pro has a con, and the con is methane, which pollutes 30% more than CO2, so that offsets things a bit. If there was no methane, it'd be no contest, gas is twice as good as coal. But since there is methane in the mix, it makes gas a bit better than coal rather than twice as good. It's not a lot of methane, though, so it doesn't equals things out. Roughly 30% of methane pollution is from gas powered vehicles, whereas, 10% of methane pollution comes from mining coal. That 19% difference isn't much because methane only equates to 10% of total emission, whereas CO2 equates to almost 60% of the greenhouse gas emission. See how insignificant that 19% is? Gasoline is just better fuel than coal.. and until we get off of coal, gas powered cars are better than electric.




NOW, if you have a solar powered house and bought an electric car, that's another story, I'd buy the electric car, will save you money in the long run and you're helping the environment.

quick edit: I failed to mention terms of efficiency, power plants do have the potential to generate a lot more energy per kg, however, you have to think in terms of profit with power plants. Power plants don't generate power via the most energy dense way, they do it the most profitable way, which is like 35% efficiency, which is not much different than a gas powered car

 

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[biophase]

I'd probably get a Tesla in the near future. I like the car and its features. My friend who has hybrids really likes the fact that he doesn't waste time at gas stations since he charges every night.

Right now the Tesla is too expensive and gas is too cheap for it to make financial sense. But once a $40k Tesla comes out and gas even goes up a little, it becomes a no brainer for most people. If you are doing it to save money, you need to compare your electric bills with the cost per charge and see what your $$$ per mile are.

The biggest reason I don't have one right now is because I can't go long distances on vacation with it and I don't drive to work daily anywhere.

 

[DaRK9]

My friend who has hybrids really likes the fact that he doesn't waste time at gas stations since he charges every night.

This makes 100x more sense than "but the environment, bro" to me.

 

[mws87]

Would you buy a Tesla if...

• you live in a country where gas costs (the equivalent of) $5/gallon
• annual road tax / car registration for the car is $0
• the car is fully tax deductible
• the car costs $70k

Just want to hear some opinions out there!

Any model S owners? What's your experience?

I've sold electric vehicles in California, so you can imagine how crazy the market is here for them. The customers I've had usually went for a lease on a cheaper electric for various reasons. I've had a lot of customers who were entrepreneurs, engineers, etc. And a common trend I noticed is they make logical purchases (instead of spending $70k on a tesla they would lease a cheap electric and save some money+write it off+awesome incenstives).

Then I had the guys who didn't really care either way and bought Alfa 4c's

Most of the Tesla owners I've met (and 4c owners) were lawyers for Apple, owners of law firms, etc.

So, while a lot of the electric owners are of high income, they still spend conscioisly and don't buy high ticket stuff just because they can.

BTW, most of the guys who hassled us over price were usually had huge amounts of income. Just a funny, yet obvious observation (all the other guys couldn't understand the formula of the guy who makes $400k a month haggling over price)

 

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[BlakeIC]

Not an owner of one, but I will buy a tesla p85d in my lifetime

So in your situation yes, i would never buy the SUV's though because they are just too damn ugly

 

[GuestUser140]

Ill always take a muscle car I can work on myself over all this new stuff thats out now. But Im not your average person when it comes to cars anyway.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I too have a weakness for a 67 Mustang Fastback and as much as I hate to say it, it'll one day be my "weekend" car. I wish they'd still make that exact car today. It's not the car to drive to drive 50k miles a year in though...

Personally I think - providing you have a decent amount of cash and adhere to the 5-10% rule of car/net worth - if you're driving a lot and thus spending a lot of time in a car, a reasonably priced great daily driver beats an exotic + a small POS daily. I'd never take pride in driving a 200k mile $1000 car and a fancy ride that barely comes out of the garage. Just my $0.02.

 

[GuestUser140]

I'm gunna have to go with Bouncing Soul on this one, I'm gunna give a detailed explanation below for those wanting the hard facts, but electric cars pollute more than gas cars. I believe in global warming and I would like to lower our polluting ways, but as it stands that's the truth. I am only making this post to educate ppl so they don't get tricked into thinking they're doing the environment good by buying electric cars, cause that's false as it stands. It doesn't matter how someone would like the car to be charged, the majority of people will charge their cars from their house, and not many people have solar panels. So almost all of that power will come from coal. Almost none of it will come from solar or wind (speaking in terms of general public, there are a few people with solar panels running their house.) They also have storing old battery problems. Those batteries run out way faster than gas powered cars batteries do, and disposing of batteries is still a huge problem needing to be solved (wink wink).


Explanation as to why gas powered cars>electric cars:

I've worked in quite a few power plants and it's roughly 25 mJ/kg for coal's energy density, called specific energy. Gasoline is roughly 50 mJ/kg (using density of gasoline, you can convert from mJ/L to mJ/kg). So gasoline produces twice as much energy per kg of substance, and it also pollutes a lot less than coal (we filter the hell out of the exit gas stream and it barely meets regulation for the mol% aloud of CO2 being poured into the atmosphere. Gasoline doesn't have to filter any and is way below regulation for CO2).

That's why a lot of plants are building natural gas burners, it's twice as efficient and pollutes less CO2. However, every pro has a con, and the con is methane, which pollutes 30% more than CO2, so that offsets things a bit. If there was no methane, it'd be no contest, gas is twice as good as coal. But since there is methane in the mix, it makes gas a bit better than coal rather than twice as good. It's not a lot of methane, though, so it doesn't equals things out. Roughly 30% of methane pollution is from gas powered vehicles, whereas, 10% of methane pollution comes from mining coal. That 19% difference isn't much because methane only equates to 10% of total emission, whereas CO2 equates to almost 60% of the greenhouse gas emission. See how insignificant that 19% is? Gasoline is just better fuel than coal.. and until we get off of coal, gas powered cars are better than electric.




NOW, if you have a solar powered house and bought an electric car, that's another story, I'd buy the electric car, will save you money in the long run and you're helping the environment.

quick edit: I failed to mention terms of efficiency, power plants do have the potential to generate a lot more energy per kg, however, you have to think in terms of profit with power plants. Power plants don't generate power via the most energy dense way, they do it the most profitable way, which is like 35% efficiency, which is not much different than a gas powered car

I would buy it for the reasons in my first post, but Interesting post!

 

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[GuestUser140]

I'd probably get a Tesla in the near future. I like the car and its features. My friend who has hybrids really likes the fact that he doesn't waste time at gas stations since he charges every night.

Right now the Tesla is too expensive and gas is too cheap for it to make financial sense. But once a $40k Tesla comes out and gas even goes up a little, it becomes a no brainer for most people. If you are doing it to save money, you need to compare your electric bills with the cost per charge and see what your $$$ per mile are.

The biggest reason I don't have one right now is because I can't go long distances on vacation with it and I don't drive to work daily anywhere.

Cool to read this from an American.

I know there are some tax incentives over there, but nowhere near what they are here. It's artificial in a way having the government make electric cars so attractive, but both Tesla and the end user profit handsomely so all is fine.

In Northern and Western Europe, we have a very good network of free public high speed charging points, so that helps too.

The problem in America is that everything's far apart and that gas is (dirt) cheap. But hey, that has its advantages too

 

[GuestUser140]

This makes 100x more sense than "but the environment, bro" to me.

Browse Tesla forums, many owners seem to find getting gas and seeing people fill up their cars an odd experience.. so antiquated :-d

 

[hughjasle]

I will. Almost did a few months ago.

Not about saving gas money or environment stuff to me whatsoever. It's about experiencing the future.

If you haven't driven one then you need to. Then you will understand why these cars are game changers.

That and it's more practical for my family of 4 than an sports car.


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[phenom4hire]

I too have a weakness for a 67 Mustang Fastback and as much as I hate to say it, it'll one day be my "weekend" car. I wish they'd still make that exact car today. It's not the car to drive to drive 50k miles a year in though...

Personally I think - providing you have a decent amount of cash and adhere to the 5-10% rule of car/net worth - if you're driving a lot and thus spending a lot of time in a car, a reasonably priced great daily driver beats an exotic + a small POS daily. I'd never take pride in driving a 200k mile $1000 car and a fancy ride that barely comes out of the garage. Just my $0.02.

I just enjoy the experience of driving old muscle. Im enough of a car guy to appreciate all types for what they are though.


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[GMJimmy]

I will buy the first electric 8-9 seater that will offer acceptable quality. I couldnt buy anything smaller than a 7seater in the past fue to the size of my family, and now I'll need 8 seats soon. I have tried the new hybrid Volvo XC90 but the rear seats were too small and had no boot space. Environmental considerations mostly. I dont care about costs too much, I have 4 cars, but I only use two. And those are not cost efficient at all, for example the Grand Voyager V6 falls into the highest tax band and also the mpg is not something to be jealous of.

Will it be Tesla? Maybe. Maybe a BMW or Toyota? Possible.

 

[WorldImperator]

I would never buy Tesla. It's kind of stupid find for those kinds of people who are Apple fanboys.

First of all, it's not ecological. Production of power cells needs an extreme dangerous chemistry used. In general it's far more worse to the environment than petrol engine cars. But cells are made in china, so who cares. they may sink in garbage.

Second, the interior is a complete disaster. First of all, the design and lack of middle tunnel, but some cheap armerest like in a 15 year old car... this is just putting off. SEcond, big screen instead of a normal cockpit. One of the stupidest ideas one could ever put in the car. There is a big reason why in car we have buttons and knobs instead of a touch screen. Change the temperature? one push on a button and done. Here, you have to be gentle and think what you are doing.

And, big screen shining all the time you are driving. Especially useful at night!

And the emergency situation when you have to push the emergency button immediately. You don't think about the force. Bye bye screen.

Generally, since few years I am deeply wondering why there are so much people being so excited about having a Tesla. I was thinking few times really deeply about buying it, but never found even a single reason to buy it, but found really dozens for not to buy it.

And, having everything on a touchscreen is not a wise idea. They are against any ergonomy, and, besides being technically new and modern and wow factor, there is far more things against them than for.

So, my answer is no. If it was given to me, I would drive it for few days, sell, and buy a normal, really exciting car for the same money.

 

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[WAMBST]

First I love this car and the way Elon Musk is moving the established cars' market (and other markets too...).
I was sure I was interested in a Tesla car, moreover in a european country in which the hypothesis given in the first post are reality.
But only one thing disturb me... what about batteries? How many years can they do their job? What is the cost to change them and what is the value of a five years old Tesla on the second hand market?
Maybe the answers balance a little bit the fact that you don't need to pay a lot for energy...

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Browse Tesla forums, many owners seem to find getting gas and seeing people fill up their cars an odd experience.. so antiquated :-d

LMAO- well, I can tell you, when range anxiety strikes, you wish like hell you could put some gas in it.

 

[GuestUser140]

First I love this car and the way Elon Musk is moving the established cars' market (and other markets too...).
I was sure I was interested in a Tesla car, moreover in a european country in which the hypothesis given in the first post are reality.
But only one thing disturb me... what about batteries? How many years can they do their job? What is the cost to change them and what is the value of a five years old Tesla on the second hand market?
Maybe the answers balance a little bit the fact that you don't need to pay a lot for energy...

Good to hear someone from France!

Anyway, to your concerns about the battery:

• Tesla gives an 8 year / unlimited miles warranty on the battery of the model S.
• If you opt to replace the battery out of warranty, it would cost around $12000

Here's Bjorn Nyland, a Norwegian who's probably the most well known user-reviewer of Teslas. Mentions that after one year and 90k km, he doesn't notice a drop in battery capacity on his car:

About resale:

Tesla guarantees 50% of the sale value after three years / 75k km. I'd figure if you buy it as a business car for fiscal reasons in Europe, that's a good deal.
More info here.

So I'd say you either use it for three years, then sell it to Tesla, or you use it forever not worrying about mileage using the 8 year warranty and continue after that. Remember it has fewer moving parts (no ICE engine) with which things could go wrong so maintenance would be very low on that end.

 

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[WAMBST]

Good to hear someone from France!

Anyway, to your concerns about the battery:

• Tesla gives an 8 year / unlimited miles warranty on the battery of the model S.
• If you opt to replace the battery out of warranty, it would cost around $12000

Here's Bjorn Nyland, a Norwegian who's probably the most well known user-reviewer of Teslas. Mentions that after one year and 90k km, he doesn't notice a drop in battery capacity on his car:

About resale:

Tesla guarantees 50% of the sale value after three years / 75k km. I'd figure if you buy it as a business car for fiscal reasons in Europe, that's a good deal.
More info here.

So I'd say you either use it for three years, then sell it to Tesla, or you use it forever not worrying about mileage using the 8 year warranty and continue after that. Remember it has fewer moving parts (no ICE engine) with which things could go wrong so maintenance would be very low on that end.

Thanks a lot for your answer. So, Tesla's cars are back to the firsts places of my wishes list... I just need to find my Fastlane .
You seems to be a real specialist on this subject. After reading your post, I don't see any technical reason to prefer traditionnal super cars...

 

[GuestUser140]

Edit to the above, Bjorn's newest video says:

"I test and find out that there's approx 4 % degradation after one year and 100k km/60k mi. That's not too bad considering that I drive 4-5 times more than most pepole. If the annual driving distance is 20-25k km, I assume that even after 8-10 years, the capacity should still be over 80 %."

 

[Longinus]

It hits me how many haters we have here, didn't knew Tesla was so polarising. Environment is not a reason for me to choose a Tesla.

Did somebody mention the huge amount of HP, the variable acceleration and autopilot? Big plusses for me.

I like cars with real engines, but Tesla is actually proving what other cars could have been if the manufacturers were thinking more straight forward.

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[GuestUser140]

Thanks a lot for your answer.
You seems to be a real specialist on this subject.

I knew nothing two weeks ago... the internet

After reading your post, I don't see any technical reason to prefer traditionnal super cars...

looks, brand image, childhood dreams,....

But indeed, no technical / rational reasons.

 

[WAMBST]

I knew nothing two weeks ago... the internet


looks, brand image, childhood dreams,....

But indeed, no technical / rational reasons.

Yes for sure, and I love their shape too... Type F is wonderfull, but Tesla's cars embodie some kind of revolution...