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O/T: HEALTH Why do people assume it takes long to build a decent body?

GainsGainsGains

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Whenever I get on Facebook (which is rarely), I see posts by random gym motivation pages I subscribed to years ago.

And in the comments, I always read some discussion which results in the same nonsense:

"I have a job and 2 kids, I don't have time to live in the gym"
"I'm busy moving"
"I'm studying for my finals"

What these people really are wishing for: For the work to do itself. This is why fat-losing and muscle-gaining secrets discovered by local single moms that shock doctors are so successful. If those same people spent 5 minutes researching what it takes to lose fat and/or gain muscle, they would realize how ridiculous these excuses sound.

I'll keep it short:

If you are skinny and trying to gain muscle, you are looking at around 3-4 hours in the gym a week. That's right, 3 hours a week. On three seperate days. Add to that maybe 2 hours a week for eating more food.

If you are overweight, you pretty much have to permanently change your diet. Most people grossly overestimate how many calories you actually burn doing sports - eating a lot and trying to lose weight by somehow burning more calories than you consume doing sports is just not realistic.

In either case, diet is the primary factor for making the change you want. And you are already eating food, so you might aswell adjust your diet and spend a few hours a week to make a meaningful change.


And please, if you ever are going to make excuses why you are not going to the gym, do not say "I don't have time". To anyone who knows anything about working out, you will look ridiculous.
 

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Everyman

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You are right. It takes 3 times a week for an hour or so plus diet. Diet is, and I quote, 70%.

From my experience it takes at least 3 months to see noticeable differences and 3-12 months to keep it going into perpetuity (so you will do it 'forever').

I know a person that has lost (and maintained it ever since) lots of unnecessary fat but it took min. 3 months.
 
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GainsGainsGains

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You are right. It takes 3 times a week for an hour or so plus diet. Diet is, and I quote, 70%.

From my experience it takes at least 3 months to see noticeable differences and 3-12 months to keep it going into perpetuity (so you will do it 'forever').

I know a person that has lost (and maintained it ever since) lots of unnecessary fat but it took min. 3 months.
I'm more of a hardgainer myself, but the 70% diet part is pretty much correct from personal experience.

When people tell me they don't have time for getting in shape all I really hear is "I've never even done the most basic research how to do it", and that speaks volumes about their motivation
 

Danny Sullivan

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Whenever i talk to people about health and fitness related topics, a feeling creeps up telling me "Look, they want change, but they don't want to change."

They're basically the dog that lies on the nail, howling every now and then. It just doens't hurt enough to move.

I know a family, let's call them John and Mary - John is already obese and close to diabetes and Mary is close to beeing obese. They got a son - Sam - that's pro-actively training and providing information to them to conquer their situation. They also got around 5.000$ worth of training equipment right at their house, ready for action whenever they are. Years go by, information is spread, Sam trains and trains to be a good role model for them - nothing really happens.
John and Mary changed eating habits from unhealthy foods to other unhealthy foods that said "Fit & Healthy" on the packaging. They started doing some training like around 10-15 times a year and as soon as they start sweating, they stop training - they feel hopeless about it: "Nothing is changing." Meanwhile the family rushed to the hospital several times because John had severe heart rhythm disturbances.

What they really want the short-cut. Eat what they like + a leaf of salad and 10min slowly walking on the treadmill twice a year should do the trick. This is also very disappointing to Sam who did all the research, provided all the information and tried to constantly be a good role-model for them.

The nail just doesn't hurt enough yet.
 

LittleWolfie

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Whenever i talk to people about health and fitness related topics, a feeling creeps up
What they really want the short-cut. Eat what they like + a leaf of salad and 10min slowly walking on the treadmill twice a year should do the trick.
Actually there was recent resarch that shows there is a genetic component to how good at exercise you are (some are super exercisers and get more for the same effort, some get less and some even respond negatively to standard exercises) you might as well tell them to change their skin colour, you can't beat physical facts by shouting.

I will try to see if I can find the paper online.

Looking at how advanced genetics is now (ancestry dna) it does open up the possibility of geneticlly-tailored apps or possibly using AR(since motivation is lost more for those who take longer to respond physically, but gained for those who respond quicker physically.) Turn health into a visual.
I understand unilver is using the work to try and create a sort of metabolic adjusting pill that will allow people in that situation to gain the same results as most regular excersiers.
 
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LittleWolfie

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"I don't have time to live in the gym"
This is why home exercise equipment exists, travel time would have taken up too much time, so I lost weight via diet and exercise. The major issue, I found with it was motivation was less on my own(fitness DVDs don't quite do it, but they try to solve the issue) I was lucky in my friend was available and in a similar situation so we could work out in the shed together. I can think of a couple of ways you could use software to improve on the current equipment to address this problem.
 

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The majority of people feel working out would take too much time away from entertainment and emotional eating. Just my observations most of my life.
 

Digamma

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About people complaining about not having time for the gym:

Seneca said:
"It is not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it. Life is long enough, and a sufficiently generous amount has been given to us for the highest achievements if it were all well invested. But when it is wasted in heedless luxury and spent on no good activity, we are forced at last by death’s final constraint to realize that it has passed away before we knew it was passing. So it is: we are not given a short life but we make it short, and we are not ill-supplied but wasteful of it. Life is long if you know how to use it."
About OP's simple formula for fitness:

Simple is not a synonym of easy.

The difficulty of health is not in complexity, it's in the fact that it's hard to do.
 
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GainsGainsGains

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About people complaining about not having time for the gym:



About OP's simple formula for fitness:

Simple is not a synonym of easy.

The difficulty of health is not in complexity, it's in the fact that it's hard to do.
I didn't say it was easy, all I said was "not having enough time" is not a valid excuse
 

Limitless4Life

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Naval: "The oldest problems have the oldest answers"

Lose weight: Caloric deficit
Gain weight: Caloric surplus
Both: train your body and eat whole foods
Both: create systems that create habits to do those things w/out the reliance on willpower.

There it is - 95% of it..and that will be $97 please
 

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Fightrepreneur

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My father in law has this attitude.

Dude is almost 60, really solid dad to my wife. He's had diabetes in the past and was like 390 lbs at 5'10" ish. Had lap band surgery and lost a good deal of weight. Now he's retired, smokes weed all day, and eats like shit. He hovers around what I'd guess is 220 lbs.

My wife and I spent a week with him and tried to get him interested in exercise. He says shit like "eh my whole family died from diabetes I can't live forever anyways, might as well not ruin my enjoyment by trying to exercise."

I'm not sure how being stoned watching reality TV all day classifies as enjoyment, but you can't change people who won't change themselves.
 

Ayanle Farah

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It's not that I don't have time, it takes focus away from other things I could be doing and it feels damn near impossible to change my diet, I've been trying for almost two years.
 

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You are right. It takes 3 times a week for an hour or so plus diet. Diet is, and I quote, 70%.
Not to be a stickler, but I'd say it's more than that, like 75 to 80%.

Going to the gym for 1 hour is the event...
What you stuff into your face for 30 days is the process...

And therein lies the simplistic answer why people are morbidly obese and will never do a damn thing about it.
 

msufan

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Not to be a stickler, but I'd say it's more than that, like 75 to 80%.

Going to the gym for 1 hour is the event...
What you stuff into your face for 30 days is the process...

And therein lies the simplistic answer why people are morbidly obese and will never do a damn thing about it.
Dead serious here: if you ever wanted to write another book, it could be a deeper dive into how the Unscripted mindset works in areas like health/fitness. It's the same exact mindset shift of not just following the masses and the latest craze. Not trying to make you into the next Tim Ferriss (who obviously pivoted from 4HWW to 4 Hour Body and 4 Hour Diet as well).

Or even just a flat out mindset book. Because it all comes down to that.
 
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GainsGainsGains

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Not to be a stickler, but I'd say it's more than that, like 75 to 80%.

Going to the gym for 1 hour is the event...
What you stuff into your face for 30 days is the process...

And therein lies the simplistic answer why people are morbidly obese and will never do a damn thing about it.
To even get to the point of knowing about these percentages they would need to put in basic research, which apparently still is too much for some. It seems most have a vague idea on how to do it from hearsay, i.e. "do sports and eat right" and both sound like too much work so they instantly shun the mere idea and come up with any excuse they can find.

The result: Health problems (and optionally, hundreds spend on housewife secrets and nonsense like carb blockers)
 

ygtrhos

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The main problem of most people about doing anything is to "get uncomfortable". May it be about earning money, losing weight and getting in shape or anything at all. Nobody wants to move their a$$ for something and most people are motivated by instant gratification.
 

Jason "GrandK"

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And please, if you ever are going to make excuses why you are not going to the gym, do not say "I don't have time". To anyone who knows anything about working out, you will look ridiculous.
If you don't have time to workout now you will end up paying for it with time in the future. In other words, working out today will add valuable time to your life. Time that won't be spent in a broken, dilapidated body later on due to your preventative upkeep today.

I find that how you eat and what you eat are the two most important factors to achieving results in the gym that last. For me, intermittent fasting with balanced fat/protein food sources, limiting carbs, sugars and hydrogenated oils, tends to produce the longest lasting gains.

I also encourage people to incorporate stretching into their routine. Even 15 minutes of stretching a day, with a focus on the calves and hamstrings, is a great way to avoid/prevent injury.

And doing high intensity interval training can also help save time. There is also body weight exercises you can do on the fly, without the time commitment of going to the gym. Even walking around your office building during breaks can do wonders.
 

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msufan

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If you don't have time to workout now you will end up paying for it with time in the future. In other words, working out today will add valuable time to your life. Time that won't be spent in a broken, dilapidated body later on due to your preventative upkeep today.

I find that how you eat and what you eat are the two most important factors to achieving results in the gym that last. For me, intermittent fasting with balanced fat/protein food sources, limiting carbs, sugars and hydrogenated oils, tends to produce the longest lasting gains.

I also encourage people to incorporate stretching into their routine. Even 15 minutes of stretching a day, with a focus on the calves and hamstrings, is a great way to avoid/prevent injury.

And doing high intensity interval training can also help save time. There is also body weight exercises you can do on the fly, without the time commitment of going to the gym. Even walking around your office building during breaks can do wonders.
Funny you should mention calves and hamstrings. I've gotten into running, and those are precisely my trouble spots. Any favorite, highly-effective stretches you would recommend for those two areas?
 

Jason "GrandK"

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Funny you should mention calves and hamstrings. I've gotten into running, and those are precisely my trouble spots. Any favorite, highly-effective stretches you would recommend for those two areas?
Straight leg calf stretch against a wall is great for the calves.

For the hamstrings, I tend to mix it up. I like sitting down in the split position and reaching for my toes with the opposite hand. Then once warmed up, i use gravity and do the same stretch but standing up. Over time, the increased flexibility helps release your calves as well as you can go deeper into hamstrings stretches.

The benefits from stretching these two areas are huge, as they affect your entire body. I had chronic shoulder pain for years and it went away once I began stretching my calves and hams. It also helps with lower back pain, hips, etc.
 

unaided

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Naval: "The oldest problems have the oldest answers"

Lose weight: Caloric deficit
Gain weight: Caloric surplus
Both: train your body and eat whole foods
Both: create systems that create habits to do those things w/out the reliance on willpower.

There it is - 95% of it..and that will be $97 please
True in a lab where they burn food and measure calories produced. But the same 100 "potential" calories are treated very differently by the body depending on the dietary context of the same "100" calories.

Effects of Dietary Composition During Weight Loss Maintenance: A Controlled Feeding Study
 

msufan

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True in a lab where they burn food and measure calories produced. But the same 100 "potential" calories are treated very differently by the body depending on the dietary context of the same "100" calories.

Effects of Dietary Composition During Weight Loss Maintenance: A Controlled Feeding Study
That is an incredibly small group of people that they tested to make these claims. I agree that there could be some variability based on what you eat (they recommend the old-fashioned low-fat diet; other studies assert low-carb is better), but I think you're 95% of the way there if you just eat the correct # of calories.
 

unaided

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That is an incredibly small group of people that they tested to make these claims. I agree that there could be some variability based on what you eat (they recommend the old-fashioned low-fat diet; other studies assert low-carb is better), but I think you're 95% of the way there if you just eat the correct # of calories.
There's also a consideration of the energy harvest via gut microbes (Effects of Gut Microbes on Nutrient Absorption and Energy Regulation), as well as mitochondrial efficiency to process the calories - healthy diversity/number of microbes and efficient mitochondria will utilize your caloric content differently - when poor = obesity/weight gain, when healthy = healthy weight management.

This is why partly why taking poop from skinny people intestines and transplanting it into obese people intestines, will make the obese people skinny. And the research supports the other direction too. Poop from obese people transplanted into skinny people will promote obesity in the formerly skinny people.

This is why Fecal transplants are a bit of the rage in some circles, but other ways to achieve the microbes and you tend to get recidivism as the individuals revert back to their normal diets that drove the microbe imbalances in the first place.
 

msufan

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There's also a consideration of the energy harvest via gut microbes (Effects of Gut Microbes on Nutrient Absorption and Energy Regulation), as well as mitochondrial efficiency to process the calories - healthy diversity/number of microbes and efficient mitochondria will utilize your caloric content differently - when poor = obesity/weight gain, when healthy = healthy weight management.

This is why partly why taking poop from skinny people intestines and transplanting it into obese people intestines, will make the obese people skinny. And the research supports the other direction too. Poop from obese people transplanted into skinny people will promote obesity in the formerly skinny people.

This is why Fecal transplants are a bit of the rage in some circles, but other ways to achieve the microbes and you tend to get recidivism as the individuals revert back to their normal diets that drove the microbe imbalances in the first place.
This is quite interesting. I thought it was especially noteworthy how eating adjustments could change the microbes in mere days.

Count me out for the fecal transplant, uh, movement.
 

masterneme

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Well I want to do it but at the same time I don't want to abandon the foods I currently eat.

I guess the end result(good looks) isn't worth the effort required, aslong as I'm healthy, don't think I'll be able to stop since looks isn't very important to me.
Fair enough, if you don't have a strong enough WHY to change your habits you won't do it, but bear in mind that even though you feel healthy now your daily dietary decisions will compound over time and may create undesirable events in the future.

In Fastlane lingo, process preceeds events, or if you have read Unscripted whatever you do will affect the kind of gumballs you get.

Judging by this and what I read on the app thread I think you have a very black-and-white conception of things.

You don't have to give up everything, it's not all or nothing, you can keep eating what you eat but making some slight adjustments and adding some other habits you can stay healthy, look good and enjoy food.

You just need to do it consistently.

Some time ago I was eating more meat than it could be considered appropriate while not drinking much water, I felt healthy and looked good but one day I started to have this pain on my side that kept increasing until it was so unbearable I have to go to the hospital.

I had kidney stones and for the next half year I had to remove 100% protein sources from my diet, drink several liters a day and I had to take painkillers for 3 months until my body excreted the stones and other crap because I couldn't handle the pain.

You never know what's going on under the hood, there may be a time-bomb slowly ticking down...
 

Ayanle Farah

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Fair enough, if you don't have a strong enough WHY to change your habits you won't do it, but bear in mind that even though you feel healthy now your daily dietary decisions will compound over time and may create undesirable events in the future.

In Fastlane lingo, process preceeds events, or if you have read Unscripted whatever you do will affect the kind of gumballs you get.

Judging by this and what I read on the app thread I think you have a very black-and-white conception of things.

You don't have to give up everything, it's not all or nothing, you can keep eating what you eat but making some slight adjustments and adding some other habits you can stay healthy, look good and enjoy food.

You just need to do it consistently.

Some time ago I was eating more meat than it could be considered appropriate while not drinking much water, I felt healthy and looked good but one day I started to have this pain on my side that kept increasing until it was so unbearable I have to go to the hospital.

I had kidney stones and for the next half year I had to remove 100% protein sources from my diet, drink several liters a day and I had to take painkillers for 3 months until my body excreted the stones and other crap because I couldn't handle the pain.

You never know what's going on under the hood, there may be a time-bomb slowly ticking down...
You're right, I have to change what I can instead of worrying about changing everything at once.
 

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