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Why do people dislike bro-marketers, gurus, and similar people/businesses?

Devampre

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I was reading some older threads regarding various "gurus", "bro-marketers", or whatever you want to call them. (Dan Lok, Tai Lopez, Tony Robbins, etc.)

Now, I'll admit that I don't purchase their products, but I've seen quite a few courses and read quite a few books. (You find most things are free on the internet if you look hard enough ;) )

I find that there are three categories of books/courses in this space:

1. Mindset - People that try to change other people's way of thinking, break conditioning, motivation, etc.
2. Vague/Technical - People that tell you what to do, but aren't specific in how to exactly do these things.
3. Technical - People that show you exactly what to do, they help you with something specific.

All of these categories still rely on the consumer to make changes/take action to get the desired results of course. I do believe there is value to some of these books/courses if one is capable to commit and put up with failure, rejection and resistance.

Now, I somewhat understand the criticism that many people on the forum have towards people that operate these types of businesses. But, I'm trying to better understand what it is specifically that people resent with these types of people/businesses.

Is it:
a) Their high prices
b) Their shady marketing (some may consider it marketeering.)
c) The seemingly not so creative approach to delivering repackaged knowledge.
d) Something else?


I mean, one can obviously understand the attraction of selling a product with an automated system over delivering a service that takes up one's time. Like we understand why people sell books, sell courses, and/or sell other digital products as opposed to doing a service that requires one's time. I just want to better understand the outrage I've seen against these types of people/business.
 

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Napoolion

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It depends, but oversaturation might be one of the problems. Everyone want's to be your guru right now if you are willing to send them money.
Another thing people in this forum look, how and what did the guru do before they earned their money with coaching. If it has only come with coaching, but he is teaching about business, then there's a problem.
In a way, it feels like they are building a personality cult... Famous dictators like Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini did the same... They act in ways as they know everything, but not all advice should be the same. Person still should be self reliable, make their own decisions depending on their own circumstances, not follow some guru blindly. History has taught us many reasons why you should not follow blindly few charismatic guys... :D
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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The problem with gurus at least for me is that they don't give a rats a$$ about providing you value and actually WANTING to help you. They care about optimizing their funnel so they can charge you $999 for a Shopify course that teaches you the basics.

I can't see how that is justifiable. It's quite sad when you think about it, there are people out there that want genuine help and these guys are taking advantage of them instead of properly helping them.

That's not the only issue though, the other one is plain dishonesty. They use tactics like "I made over $30,000 this week in sales", those YouTubers know for a FACT that the viewer who is most likely a "want to make a quick buck" sort of person has no idea between the difference of sales and profit so they take advantage of that and make it look like that is what is going into their bank account every week.
 

JScott

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Long story short, if you have to create a persona by renting out a mansion and leasing a lambo for your videos, that calls into question your actual experience and prior level of success. And if you have to continually tell us how much money you have, you probably don't have it.

Not saying they all fit into this category, but we all know the ones who do...
 

ChrisV

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Tony Robbins
Most people generally like Tony Robbins around here. I mean he's a little bit of a dumbass, but still nowhere near the pseudo-scientific bullshit of say, Bob Proctor.


As for the other gurus? Because they're full of shit. The Secret? Positive thinking?

Does your 'positive thinking' fill a need in the market? Okay then will do F*ck all for your bottom line.

As for Dan Lok or Tai Lopez...i mean come on...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jOKfU9uL5s
 

TheCj

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There are a lot of "guru's" who tell there story to success as one thing, when in reality there real success is selling there fake story. The principles may be sound, just once you realize someone is lying to you they lose credibility.
Tai Lopez is basically the poster boy for this in the current world.
Can still learn from what they do, instead of what they are telling people to do.
Coming to this forum, and reading all the similar experiences its almost a right of passage to realize all the bull out there.
 

LittleWolfie

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I find that there are three categories of books/courses in this space:

1. Mindset - People that try to change other people's way of thinking, break conditioning, motivation, etc.
2. Vague/Technical - People that tell you what to do, but aren't specific in how to exactly do these things.
3. Technical - People that show you exactly what to do, they help you with something specific.
I like #3 ,I want a book that tells you how to do #1 in a #3 way.


If your friend told you: "I'm buying you an ice cream tonight because deep down I want you to buy me an iPhone tomorrow as a payback". How would that make you feel?
Probably the same way my friend would feel, if I was only friends with them to learn from them or because of their money. It is just business,you give me money and I will give you infomational product.

A better question would be, "why do people even like them?"
That is easy,social hacking (the same principle behind this thread (HOT TOPIC - Dressing For Success... Stop looking like a fool.) writ large.

Look the part and people will belive you are the part. See Frank Abgernale

(The film was unable to replicate one scam,because people refused to belive it was an act, and kept interrupting the film to give the actor money.. ..)

If you don't believe me,just walk around wearing a high vis and a clipboard and see where you can get in.

Turn up to a hospital appointment in a lab coat and your obviously a doctor.
 

LittleWolfie

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Really good clip, but interesting just how similar it is to the fastlaners' attitude.

"No negativity"

Establish authority/build a niche/dress for success. Hell "fast" lane that sounds similar to make money fast,right?

Add value to people and get referrals = social proof.

I suppose the contrapuners want you to think they are fastlaners, and their is no easy way to distinguish the two.

Apart from fastlaners who welcome negativity....
 

AgainstAllOdds

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They'll put you on a path to waste 3 years of your life just so that they can make $997 off of you once.

In my opinion, they're down there with the rest of the scum of the scum.
 

spreng

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because they are frauds who take advantage of human kind's optimistic outlook and procrastination. They offer a perfect entity to indulge action faking and give people false hope. They offer mostly generic fluff that doesn't result in action, instead it pacifies people and makes them fat on the ice cream of "self-help".

They know full well that the only get rich quick scheme is to sell get rich quick schemes, but you have to be willing to be a fraud with no dignity to do so.

I believe they are perfect hypocrites, and I hate hypocrites.
 
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Devampre

Devampre

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Based on the replies and that video (which was well done) I believe I have a better understanding as to the core of this outrage.

It seems that it isn't all merely the sales tactics of triggering multiple cognitive biases, but also inflating the price of something likely not worth much.

Jordan Belfort used to sell overpriced penny stocks and now sells overpriced sales training. Granted not the most expensive sales training ;)

Thank you all for your replies and feel free to add more insight or even disagree

P.S. I will say that there are a few lessons that I have learned from some of these people in their content. But, nothing really worth close to how much they ask for access to their digital programs.
 

Dan_Cardone

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Jordan Belfort got criticized a lot when he came out with a $3000.00 dvd set on selling.

I bought it and the very same week used a few things I learned in it to close a big deal. That course has since paid for itself many times over.

I realize that Jordan Belfort doesn't always get as much hate as guys like Tai but sometimes I see people automatically assume that anyone who offers high priced courses are scammers. Thats not always the case.

I've bought some courses that I would have gladly paid 10x for because of how much actual value I got for them.

That said, Ive never bought anything from Tai or Robbins and never plan to.
 

Napoolion

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Jordan Belfort got criticized a lot when he came out with a $3000.00 dvd set on selling.

I bought it and the very same week used a few things I learned in it to close a big deal. That course has since paid for itself many times over.

I realize that Jordan Belfort doesn't always get as much hate as guys like Tai but sometimes I see people automatically assume that anyone who offers high priced courses are scammers. Thats not always the case.

I've bought some courses that I would have gladly paid 10x for because of how much actual value I got for them.

That said, Ive never bought anything from Tai or Robbins and never plan to.
Yeah, I get your point. There are a lot of people out there who can't really perceive value, unless it is priced very expensive. Think Jordan Belfort even mentioned that he tried to price some of stuff lower, but he didn't get that many sales, so had to increase. People are weird beings.
 

Dan_Cardone

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Yeah, I get your point. There are a lot of people out there who can't really perceive value, unless it is priced very expensive. Think Jordan Belfort even mentioned that he tried to price some of stuff lower, but he didn't get that many sales, so had to increase. People are weird beings.
One of my clients who sells digital courses changed nothing except his price and sales dramatically increased.

He took it from $47 up to $197.

"You get what you pay for" is a mantra heavily ingrained in many people. To them, a higher price means higher quality.
 

Azure

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Most people generally like Tony Robbins around here. I mean he's a little bit of a dumbass, but still nowhere near the pseudo-scientific bullshit of say, Bob Proctor.


As for the other gurus? Because they're full of shit. The Secret? Positive thinking?

Does your 'positive thinking' fill a need in the market? Okay then will do F*ck all for your bottom line.

As for Dan Lok or Tai Lopez...i mean come on...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jOKfU9uL5s
That medium article is an awful critique of Tony Robbins. It reads more like a mommy blogger ranting about standing in line at an oversold event.

For an expert in "behavioural science", he offered literally no insight into the cues Tony is trying to mold in the subconscious, no comment in his specific actions, or phraseology or anything of the sort - which I found kind of odd for an article that prefaced itself as a look into a behavioral scientists experience at these sorts of events.

When he digs into the meat and bones and lists his specific criticism - male dominated anecdotes etc(I guess the author doesn't appreciate catering to ideal customer profiles), the part that really stood out was the section where he quite specifically blasted Tony for "Some very general sweeping statements that sometimes actually contradict themselves". Yet he didn't even think it appropriate to include a quotation or anecdote to support this assertion.

The icing on the cake was his contrasting assessment of Tim Ferris as being "direct and rational". The same Tim Ferriss who built his entire empire on the foundation of a self-serving, indirect and irrationally scatterbrained collection of "life tips" that aren't even marginally related to one another.

The same Tim Ferris who fabricated his involvement with at least one instance of high level sporting events, and most likely two of them.

Unless you believe he won a dancing and kungfu world championship on 2 month notice.
 

ChrisV

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That medium article is an awful critique of Tony Robbins. It reads more like a mommy blogger ranting about standing in line at an oversold event.
You read the whole thing? The review was positive.

Look I’ll be brutally honest here. Tony Robbins is a snake-oil salesman of the worst kind. His events, his pseudo-science and the whole rah-rah is a giant commercial con-job designed to suck money out of dumb people.

Bam. There you have it.

Or at least that’s what I thought before I attended one of his events.
 

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