Where I have been this time... and why I'm famous at Wells Fargo

[JokerCrazyBeatz]

This is the process many people rarely see . Its so much glitz and glam refered to when you talk about entrepreneurship. Big numbers , all the percs . But the PROCESSS is so unsexy and disheartening . It's not for the weak minded or weak hearted for sure

 

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[JonnyC]

This is awesome. Really respect the hustle man, good job on rolling with the punches and I'm happy that there's some upside at the end of it for you!

 

[Walter Hay]

Supplier no. Customer absolutely several times.

My policy is now to have my a$$ completly covered and have a plan for what Ill do if somehow I still get screwed.

Keep in mind I was using an LOC... Typically considered a secure way to transact business. They didnt give me a single red flag except knowing what I knew, I should have been more skeptical that they could supply the amounts I wanted to buy. Its pretty hard to come by. The fact is that they did everything else perfectly.

Thanks for your great story. Not only because of your persistence and determination, but for me the warning that even if using a "secure" payment method you can still be scammed. On a small scale, people think PayPal is secure, but that's not necessarily so either.

Vigilante's help was so valuable. He not only gave you sound advice about the fact that WF did not have to pay the LOC under the circumstances, but that should alert all members to the fact that you should never believe what employees that you are dealing with tell you. You might expect that bank employees would know the legalities of paying by LOC (I prefer L/C), but even if they do they might not want you to know.

I have written in my AMA, and it is also included in my book that: "....there is still a risk of fraud in using L/C or escrow. If a seller submits forged documents, payment will be made by the bank or escrow company, but you will not receive the goods...." In the light of your experience I will expand on that in the next edition. Fortunately you discovered the fraud in time to exert heroic efforts to prevent the LOC being negotiated.

As a general observation, I have also warned in my AMA about the fact that forgery of documents is endemic in China. No buyer should blindly trust Business Registration Certificates, Quality Inspection Certificates, Standards Compliance Certificates or any others, e.g. Bills of Lading.

Walter

 

[Vigilante]

Thanks for your great story. Not only because of your persistence and determination, but for me the warning that even if using a "secure" payment method you can still be scammed. On a small scale, people think PayPal is secure, but that's not necessarily so either.

Vigilante's help was so valuable. He not only gave you sound advice about the fact that WF did not have to pay the LOC under the circumstances, but that should alert all members to the fact that you should never believe what employees that you are dealing with tell you. You might expect that bank employees would know the legalities of paying by LOC (I prefer L/C), but even if they do they might not want you to know.

I have written in my AMA, and it is also included in my book that: "....there is still a risk of fraud in using L/C or escrow. If a seller submits forged documents, payment will be made by the bank or escrow company, but you will not receive the goods...." In the light of your experience I will expand on that in the next edition. Fortunately you discovered the fraud in time to exert heroic efforts to prevent the LOC being negotiated.

As a general observation, I have also warned in my AMA about the fact that forgery of documents is endemic in China. No buyer should blindly trust Business Registration Certificates, Quality Inspection Certificates, Standards Compliance Certificates or any others, e.g. Bills of Lading.

Walter

It is amazing the degree they will go to perpetrate a fraud, even as far as fake "offices" that are remnicient of the movie "boiler room." There have been scams so deep that the perpetrators set up a fake office for the unsuspecting Western visitor, only to dismantle the fake office within hours or days after the visitor made a satisfactory personal visit to the scamming supplier.

 

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[Marc B.]

It is amazing the degree they will go to perpetrate a fraud, even as far as fake "offices" that are remnicient of the movie "boiler room." There have been scams so deep that the perpetrators set up a fake office for the unsuspecting Western visitor, only to dismantle the fake office within hours or days after the visitor made a satisfactory personal visit to the scamming supplier.

I hope that's not something you learned first hand.

 

[Vigilante]

I hope that's not something you learned first hand.

No.

There are tons of variations on it though.

http://hongkongbusiness.hk/economy/commentary/fraud-101-how-spot-fraudulent-hong-kong-company

It is the reason Alibaba tried to institute Gold certification with onsite factory visits. However, as @Walter Hay has pointed out, that is not necessarily a litmus test as their certification process now involves the company paying money to Alibaba to reach their "gold seller" platform.

The situation @Kak encountered was a deliberate fraudulent fake business, with physical (fake) locations, contacts, web sites, and more. He wasn't the first to encounter them (as we learned later) but was probably the only one to get his money back thanks in part to the United States banking system, and his tenacity to not roll over. You need to understand KAK heard "too bad for you" hundreds of times by low level and mid level executives. He just didn't stop.

Companies like Wells Fargo make decisions based on their assessment of their own exposure. Ultimately him getting his money back was in no way because they decided to do the right thing. It was solely based on what they assessed their exposure to be from not securing his funds. 999 out of 1,000 times, the money would have been lost. He was dealing with professionals that had done this before, will likely do it again in a different city under different disguise, and the next sucker will lose his money again. The thieves will learn from this one, and will fix their imperfected scam for the next round.

 

[Torobaro]

I wanted to say it's really easy to change because most peoples fears hold them back from having a drive and taking risks...

But I actually think some people are born with it then there are most people aren't and spend their whole lives trying to figure out why they can't do it.

If you are inherently lazy, you'll might never make it. If you can't jump off the bridge without having to have every detail and reassurance, you probably won't make it. If you're not a little crazy and dont feel the drive to do things the unconventional way and challenge the status quo... You will definitely never make it.

In my opinion its all about the drive, having the drive and feeding it, never letting anything or anyone drag you down. But I think you got to have self-confidence. Everybody believes they have confidence in themselves but few actually do.

Some of my friends are very driven people they have great jobs at banks or law firms work 12-14 hours daily and have nice paychecks, but I know they´ll never jump into the fastlane and achieve freedom because they don´t really believe in themselves. They are not certain about making it on their own and would never tolerate failing at anything because of their lack os self-confidence

But the good part for me is that I´m confident and driven (and work on this issues every day), I know I´ll make it sooner or later

 

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[Marc B.]

There are tons of variations on it though...The thieves will learn from this one, and will fix their imperfected scam for the next round.

Thanks for exposing the scam. You and Kak have saved us a lot of grief. Rep+

 

[Kak]

Ok new story and honestly, I simply enjoyed the journey on this one.

Over the last 6 months my wife and I have been looking to move out of my rental home and to buy something a bit more permanent, bigger and nicer.

We picked a neighborhood we liked. A beautiful gated neighborhood on the lake with a great country club because I am a golfer and want our kids to grow up enjoying the game too. Yeah it was a little expensive in there, but whatever, we started looking at homes closer to our price range.

Home after home sucked. Usually small, or crummy. Since we both work from home we will chew up two bedrooms for workspace. We are literally a couple with no children but need 4 bedrooms just to have a place for guests.

Anyway back in May we finially found a home we loved close enough to our price range to make an offer. 20 percent below asking right out of the gate with little room to accept a counter. They said screw off.

We continued the home search saw a few more and largely just took it easy. Then June came along. Their realtor reached out and asked if we were still interested in the property. I said we were, but now I want another 10 percent off of my offer. They said screw off.

At this point we were discouraged, but indifferent. We live in a great home in a great town and have a great lease. So we will look next year.

Yesterday, we got a call from our realtor. They want to see if we were still interested in buying at our last offer... I said Im interested but now I want 10 percent off of that offer. But that isn't all. I will not accept a counter and I'll never negotiate again. Its been several months of screwing around and I am done.

Within 4 hours I had the home under contract. An absolutely ridiculous amount under the original listing. Patience was important and I think being willing to ride it out was important. This is like a card game, getting emotinal about it would have ruined what became an amazing deal.

Work in numbers. Be patient and sometimes you can scrape out something way beyond what you could have expected. This home is well within our budget. We are able to pay it off now if we decide to.

Anyway, I had fun with it. Negotiate hard all they can do is say no.

 

[evlttwin]

Ok new story and honestly, I simply enjoyed the journey on this one.

Over the last 6 months my wife and I have been looking to move out of my rental home and to buy something a bit more permanent, bigger and nicer.

We picked a neighborhood we liked. A beautiful gated neighborhood on the lake with a great country club because I am a golfer and want our kids to grow up enjoying the game too. Yeah it was a little expensive in there, but whatever, we started looking at homes closer to our price range.

Home after home sucked. Usually small, or crummy. Since we both work from home we will chew up two bedrooms for workspace. We are literally a couple with no children but need 4 bedrooms just to have a place for guests.

Anyway back in May we finially found a home we loved close enough to our price range to make an offer. 20 percent below asking right out of the gate with little room to accept a counter. They said screw off.

We continued the home search saw a few more and largely just took it easy. Then June came along. Their realtor reached out and asked if we were still interested in the property. I said we were, but now I want another 10 percent off of my offer. They said screw off.

At this point we were discouraged, but indifferent. We live in a great home in a great town and have a great lease. So we will look next year.

Yesterday, we got a call from our realtor. They want to see if we were still interested in buying at our last offer... I said Im interested but now I want 10 percent off of that offer. But that isn't all. I will not accept a counter and I'll never negotiate again. Its been several months of screwing around and I am done.

Within 4 hours I had the home under contract. An absolutely ridiculous amount under the original listing. Patience was important and I think being willing to ride it out was important. This is like a card game, getting emotinal about it would have ruined what became an amazing deal.

Work in numbers. Be patient and sometimes you can scrape out something way beyond what you could have expected. This home is well within our budget. We are able to pay it off now if we decide to.

Anyway, I had fun with it. Negotiate hard all they can do is say no.

So in golf and in business you are playing the 'long game'.

I'll show myself out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

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[Trud09]

Ok new story and honestly, I simply enjoyed the journey on this one.

Over the last 6 months my wife and I have been looking to move out of my rental home and to buy something a bit more permanent, bigger and nicer.

We picked a neighborhood we liked. A beautiful gated neighborhood on the lake with a great country club because I am a golfer and want our kids to grow up enjoying the game too. Yeah it was a little expensive in there, but whatever, we started looking at homes closer to our price range.

Home after home sucked. Usually small, or crummy. Since we both work from home we will chew up two bedrooms for workspace. We are literally a couple with no children but need 4 bedrooms just to have a place for guests.

Anyway back in May we finially found a home we loved close enough to our price range to make an offer. 20 percent below asking right out of the gate with little room to accept a counter. They said screw off.

We continued the home search saw a few more and largely just took it easy. Then June came along. Their realtor reached out and asked if we were still interested in the property. I said we were, but now I want another 10 percent off of my offer. They said screw off.

At this point we were discouraged, but indifferent. We live in a great home in a great town and have a great lease. So we will look next year.

Yesterday, we got a call from our realtor. They want to see if we were still interested in buying at our last offer... I said Im interested but now I want 10 percent off of that offer. But that isn't all. I will not accept a counter and I'll never negotiate again. Its been several months of screwing around and I am done.

Within 4 hours I had the home under contract. An absolutely ridiculous amount under the original listing. Patience was important and I think being willing to ride it out was important. This is like a card game, getting emotinal about it would have ruined what became an amazing deal.

Work in numbers. Be patient and sometimes you can scrape out something way beyond what you could have expected. This home is well within our budget. We are able to pay it off now if we decide to.

Anyway, I had fun with it. Negotiate hard all they can do is say no.

Being a Realtor as a side hustle, I would have been very surprised 40% under list price. Just proves what you can get when you are unemotional with a purchase.

 

[Kak]

So in golf and in business you are playing the 'long game'.

I'll show myself out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

My first offer is my best offer.

Lol I'm going to say that next time I buy a house.

 

[Kak]

Being a Realtor as a side hustle, I would have been very surprised 40% under list price. Just proves what you can get when you are unemotional with a purchase.

As was I... Keeping emotions out of it was very important.

House needs paint, floors and a kitchen remodel which we are doing right away. That is my best guess why it didnt sell for more.

 

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[Azure]

40% below asking.

They must've either been way too high in the first place or just a bad local market.

 

[Kak]

40% below asking.

They must've either been way too high in the first place or just a bad local market.

Someone needed a vision for the place. It needs some serious work, but I can easily do all of the work myself.

The place is going to look like a whole new house when Im done with it.

 

[KLaw]

40% below asking.

They must've either been way too high in the first place or just a bad local market.

Exactly my thoughts. I imagine there is gonna be a lot of "updates" needed. Still. Good hustle kak.

 

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[luniac]

wow,
Gold thread indeed.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

@Kak -- I reupped your YISA (INSIDERS Sub) which you were granted last year. Thanks for sharing your progress with us.

 

[Bigguns50]

Negotiate hard all they can do is say no.

Good work ! Also, the one who can walk away from the deal...usually wins.

 

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[DFastest225]

Sounds like you have your lifetime excuse locked-in.

But I guess I understand; a married man with kids and a mortgage has never successfully started a business in all of recorded history.

And this is why I f*** with you MJ. Bravo. I'm afraid this poster was clearly speaking from a slowlane mindset. Nothing should stop you! This is my first post by the way and I'm happy to be apart of the forum! Also congrats @Kak on your wedding and posting this awesome and valuable experience for all of us to behold.

 

[Kak]

@Kak -- I reupped your YISA (INSIDERS Sub) which you were granted last year. Thanks for sharing your progress with us.

Awesome! Thanks MJ that is very much appreciated!

 

[Evil_Jester]

Ok new story and honestly, I simply enjoyed the journey on this one.

...because I am a golfer and want our kids to grow up enjoying the game too.

Ahh you are a golfer. That explains things. I grew up playing golf and poker as a passion. Both hobbies take the emotion out of your decisions, you have to take calculated gambles, and you repeatedly see the impossible happen--until you break the mental barrier that anything is possible.

 

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[Paul Thomas]

Awesome thread - obvious heart and persistence to get done what you need to get done in each of your stories.

I've seen so many people who have never done anything on their own, idealize and exaggerate "hard work" and think they deserve a reward for working a 12 hour day in the comfort of their stable paying office.

Then you see stories like this from guys who don't need to tell anyone they did it rather then to inspire others. Its just doing what they had to do... business as usual... habit.

(in my opinion)

 

[MotiveInMotion]

Wow @Kak - MAD respect to you, for handling this so methodically and urgently. Not many people go to those depths to protect and aid customers they have.

Another thing, it reminds me of resetting my sights for what is "hard" and re-calibrating my gauge for what I am willing to go through and do to get the mission accomplished. Well done.

 

[RHL]

We continued the home search saw a few more and largely just took it easy. Then June came along. Their realtor reached out and asked if we were still interested in the property. I said we were, but now I want another 10 percent off of my offer. They said screw off.... Yesterday, we got a call from our realtor. They want to see if we were still interested in buying at our last offer... I said Im interested but now I want 10 percent off of that offer. But that isn't all. I will not accept a counter and I'll never negotiate again. Its been several months of screwing around and I am done.

 

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[Kak]

I am going to go ahead and begin sharing another story. I won't try to put a label on the lesson learned here because there are so dang many I learned from this it would be a disservice to focus on just one.

This story is an extremely tough one to unpack for me. It is the biggest business sacrifice I have ever made. I'm not talking about a few grand here or there like the sourcing deal. I'm not even talking about some guy's 100k. I'm talking about the better part of a million dollars spent. Some investor money and some was my own. I'm talking about hundreds of meetings. Supplier turnover because of no movement. Explaining myself to investors. Continuing to believe in my business through hundreds upon hundreds of naysayers, liars, disinterested decision makers.

I have touched on this project in other threads briefly. A very select few of you know exactly what this is. There are absolutely things I would have done differently knowing what I know today, but I haven't given up and I don't plan to.

The story begins on August second of 2013. Over three whole years ago. I formed a corporation, opened a bank account and dropped the first 100k of investor money in it. My idea was ingenious. My numbers were incredible. I had a solution I was going to sell to the biggest customer in the world. The government.

Not only were the numbers incredible... They were figures that could make me and my investors billionaires, every single year over and over diminishing as I put a complete end to a serious problem we have in this country. Republican, democrat, it didn't matter, it would appeal to either side. I felt like I had the world by the balls and my investors were convinced I did to. Investors chased me down. I didn't even have to look. The idea was that good. Lets just quantify and get on with the story... The problem affected 1.1 million people in Texas the year I filed my formation. Each one of those people would be worth an average of $800 in value to my company, net. Remember, that is just Texas.

 

[Kak]

Wow @Kak - MAD respect to you, for handling this so methodically and urgently. Not many people go to those depths to protect and aid customers they have.

Another thing, it reminds me of resetting my sights for what is "hard" and re-calibrating my gauge for what I am willing to go through and do to get the mission accomplished. Well done.

Thank you for your kind words... I appreciate that.

Now about the whole 'resetting sights' crap. Honestly dude that just sounds like a bunch of bullshit. It shouldn't require a deliberate thought reprogramming or any other kind of voodoo Tony Robbins crap. Just find a business you believe in, remember the difference between a small deal and a big deal is just the size of the numbers.

I know I quoted you and only you, but I'm not singling you out. I have seen a bunch of this mind over matter dreamer crap in this thread. I can't recall wasting a single moment on that stuff. I can't also speak for most entrepreneurs who have been successful, but I would put money on the fact that they didn't either.

How many real millionaires out there do you hear tossing Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins quotes around? Right, they are mostly losers that need to F*ck or walk.

Anyway, sorry for making it seem like I was singling you out. I'm a big thinker relative to most people. I get that, but to me its just thinking. Leave thinking about thinking to the losers.

 

[Trud09]

Thank you for your kind words... I appreciate that.

Now about the whole 'resetting sights' crap. Honestly dude that just sounds like a bunch of bullshit. It shouldn't require a deliberate thought reprogramming or any other kind of voodoo Tony Robbins crap. Just find a business you believe in, remember the difference between a small deal and a big deal is just the size of the numbers.

I know I quoted you and only you, but I'm not singling you out. I have seen a bunch of this mind over matter dreamer crap in this thread. I can't recall wasting a single moment on that stuff. I can't also speak for most entrepreneurs who have been successful, but I would put money on the fact that they didn't either.

How many real millionaires out there do you hear tossing Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins quotes around? Right, they are mostly losers that need to F*ck or walk.

Anyway, sorry for making it seem like I was singling you out. I'm a big thinker... Thinking big is great. Leave thinking about thinking to the losers.

Lol, I feel like I am being called out. Would you say all personal development is worthless? Should all learning be around skill building? As I thought about it, most of the encouragement to buy self dev stuff is from those who sell it. Would you say the same about life coaches? I think I still deal with limiting beliefs, but maybe I just need to get over it and get busy taking action. Thoughts?

 

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[Kak]

Lol, I feel like I am being called out. Would you say all personal development is worthless? Should all learning be around skill building? As I thought about it, most of the encouragement to buy self dev stuff is from those who sell it. Would you say the same about life coaches? I think I still deal with limiting beliefs, but maybe I just need to get over it and get busy taking action. Thoughts?

What is your description of personal development? If you take those words at their surface meaning I look at it like becoming better at something, learning something, progressing, getting smarter. So sure you could call me a fan of personal development.

Life coach? Is that like a safe space? I'm sorry but if you're over the age of 18 and you need someone to tell you how to run your life you are the antithesis of an entrepreneur. On the other hand, mentors, formal and informal that you can count on for help and advice are amazing and I highly suggest you build several of those relationships.

Here is how you stop dealing with limiting beliefs... Stop having them. Understand as I said to HKK... These millionaires and billionaires aren't unicorns. They exist and there is a reason for their existence. Why not adopt the actions that got them there?

 

[Trud09]

What is your description of personal development? If you take those words at their surface meaning I look at it like becoming better at something, learning something, progressing, getting smarter. So sure you could call me a fan of personal development.

Life coach? Is that like a safe space? I'm sorry but if you're over the age of 18 and you need someone to tell you how to run your life you are the antithesis of an entrepreneur. On the other hand, mentors, formal and informal that you can count on for help and advice are amazing and I highly suggest you build several of those relationships.

Here is how you stop dealing with limiting beliefs... Stop having them. Understand as I said to HKK... These millionaires and billionaires aren't unicorns. They exist and there is a reason for their existence. Why not adopt the actions that got them there?

For personal development I am thinking success magazine, think and grow rich, or other similar genres among the mindset and motivation material. It seems like you are calling Tony Robins out, I understand there is some crap, but how do I filter who is crap vs who is worth listening to? I do want to follow the footsteps of successful people and am working on building a network of people I can ask for advice.

I just heard life coaches as beneficial (maybe a business coach is more accurate of what I am thinking), due to Olympic athletes having coach. They are already great at what they do, but helps to push the needle just a little further. I guess the premise is that the life coach knows what they are doing.

Thanks for your input