Unity Game Engine just exercised their power of control that would destroy Indie Game Scene

[EmotionEngine]

Game developers who have been using the Unity Game Engine for years may have to look into learning alternatives because we hitched a ride with someone who cannot be trusted. MJ's books of course warns about this, but its hard to avoid in game software since building your own game engine is an undertaking similar to building your own airplane. Must have knowledge of low-level programming, render programming, linear algebra, trig, hardware systems drivers, etc.

After Unity went public in 2020, everything changed (of course it did). Their CEO has been making erratic comments and decisions for the past few years. In Jan 2023 they'll be instituting a "Runtime Fee" that will cause anyone who meets a certain threshold to pay for installs. You're essentially punished for success and it also can be abused. Anytime a user downloads and installs a game, you'll have to pay a fee. This is already on top of money you already pay Unity! This is akin to having to pay your car manufacturer for every mile you drive after purchasing your car.

This has caused a major backlash from game developers who may pull their current titles. Most will need to start learning other game engines like Unreal to develop future titles on. It's a huge time sink to do so.

Articles:

Why Unity's New Install Fees Are Spurring Massive Backlash Among Game Developers - IGN

Game developers aren't happy with a new policy from Unity that will cost developers a small fee every time someone installs a game built on Unity's game engine.

www.ign.com

Unity adds fee for installs for successful small devs, triggering a backlash

Do you want to get the latest gaming industry news straight to your inbox? Sign up for our daily and weekly newsletters here. A year after Unity raised prices for enterprise and professional versions of its game engine, Unity added a new charge for smaller developers who meet thresholds for...

venturebeat.com

Here is a post from their own forum. Check out the responses...

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/

YouTube:
YouTube video from one of the many developers out there:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zuZaJE3n-4


YouTuber:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jKVt98fgEY


Here is a blog piece written on it:

The death of unity

Unity was once considered the savior of the game industry. Now I wouldn't recommend anyone use it for anything.

insertcredit.com

Tweets:



Popular game:

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

After Unity went public in 2020, everything changed (of course it did).

Any company that was once beloved and customer-centric, turns to dogshit after going public. SONOS, Etsy, Upwork... I can go on and on... it is one of the flaws of capitalism (or perhaps Wall Street/investment culture/financial media) where the stakeholder transforms to the shareholder from the customer, turning the customer into livestock.

 

[The-J]

@Ravens_Shadow sounds like it's relevant to you... is this the thing that will take you to $1B?

 

[EmotionEngine]

@Ravens_Shadow sounds like it's relevant to you... is this the thing that will take you to $1B?

Yes, I'm solo game developer and been learning Unity and the C# programming language for years. I was preparing to make my entrepreneurial leap next year.

You need an engine to build any modern game because it's too complex to build a custom powerful multi-purpose engine that compile for multiple platforms. Even multi-billion dollar companies use them. For example: Final Fantasy VII Remake a multi-million dollar selling game by Square Enix uses the Unreal Engine along with its upcoming sequel.

Any game engine could take me over $1 billion if I made a hit. Obviously not a sure thing but every developer guns for making a popular game that sells well.

Similarly to how you need a camera for shooting movies, blockbuster or indie, you need a game engine to iterate and design games efficiently. Imagine if camera manufacturers charged you a fee for every photo you posted.

Fortunately there are alternatives, but not many. They differ on capability and difficulty to learn. The most popular among AAA developers is Unreal which uses the C++ programming language. A slightly harder language than C# which Unity uses.

The latest version Unreal was used to create this demo:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0gvPcc3jQ

 

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[Trismigistus]

Perhaps after a bunch of fastlaners are successful with their businesses and are passionate about gaming, could work together to build a new engine to supplant these goliaths. I have seen gaming has been sinking for awhile, it needs fresh blood and ideas. I would love to build a badass new game or engine, but I simply do not have those types of resources. But something I will definitely revisit after I establish my first fastlane business. Nothing until the first business is successful.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

https://x.com/fronkongames/status/1701964435391201444?s=20

The INSIDERS knew it was coming and sold. And people wonder why capitalism as executed in this country is under duress.

 

[Trismigistus]

https://x.com/fronkongames/status/1701964435391201444?s=20

The INSIDERS knew it was coming and sold. And people wonder why capitalism as executed in this country is under duress.

View attachment 51319

Wow that's nuts, not surprising when it is so easy to be bad, hard to be good. Capitalism needs morality. MJ, do you think it'll end with the rage of communism or could there be some sort of moral restoration. Maybe a false dichotomy.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

MJ, do you think it'll end with the rage of communism or could there be some sort of moral restoration. Maybe a false dichotomy.

I don't know, I have zero faith in humans to do the right thing collectively. Communism/socialism, which is cutting off your head to spite your nose, is not the answer.

 

[EmotionEngine]

I interviewed with Unity in 2018. Glad I didn't get the job. What a clown-world of a company it turned into.

Perhaps after a bunch of fastlaners are successful with their businesses and are passionate about gaming, could work together to build a new engine to supplant these goliaths. I have seen gaming has been sinking for awhile, it needs fresh blood and ideas. I would love to build a badass new game or engine, but I simply do not have those types of resources. But something I will definitely revisit after I establish my first fastlane business. Nothing until the first business is successful.

I'm down. Anyone know the Assembly (ASM) and C programming languages and rendering?

 

[EmotionEngine]

Just in...

Video-Game Company Unity Closes Offices Following Death Threat

Management announced a controversial pricing decision two days ago

www.bloomberg.com

 

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[Trismigistus]

I don't know, I have zero faith in humans to do the right thing collectively. Communism/socialism, which is cutting off your head to spite your nose, is not the answer.

Just gotta say MJ, thanks for the reply, you're the best damn philosopher I've ever read, I personally think you kick the shit out of all of em.

 

[Ravens_Shadow]

@Ravens_Shadow sounds like it's relevant to you... is this the thing that will take you to $1B?

If unity crumbles, it will take a lot of risk out of our market since they bought up quite a few of our competitors.

 

[srodrigo]

A bit dramatic, as everything around "indie" game development. The loudest developers won't ever make 200k in revenue, so it doesn't affect them. But yeah, Unity sucks. This is one of the reasons why I made one of my games on something else (it's one of my threads here). I remember people saying "just use Unity", but I refused partially for this reason (and that was when Unity didn't stink yet). The game didn't make a dime, so it didn't matter, but I'm glad I can re-purpose it if I want to, without dealing with Unity's shit. They can't take it away from me and I don't have to rewrite it on something else, how cool is that? I made another game in Unity at the end, because it was a mobile game and it was more convenient. But it was a nightmare to maintain and keep up-to-date: constant breaking changes, then the stupid IronSource change for the ads. I had the last straw a few months ago and I'll let it die, no biggie. It made around $20, more than I was expecting.

I hope this drama opened some people's stubborn minds and they give open source projects a chance. There are good game engines that can suffice for some kind of games. Proprietary software is okay for the most part, but Unity started to stink long ago, and I'm not surprised at all that they are making use of the control people gave them. Web technologies favour open source for a reason, because you are putting all your eggs into someone else's basket, and whether that goes well or not is not under your control.

 

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[srodrigo]

Perhaps after a bunch of fastlaners are successful with their businesses and are passionate about gaming, could work together to build a new engine to supplant these goliaths. I have seen gaming has been sinking for awhile, it needs fresh blood and ideas. I would love to build a badass new game or engine, but I simply do not have those types of resources. But something I will definitely revisit after I establish my first fastlane business. Nothing until the first business is successful.

I'm not sure the world needs more general-purpose game engines, there are plenty great quality ones that don't cost a dime and aren't run by BS companies that will pull the rug when they manage to get every one on.

I would encourage people who like game engine programming to build their own if they are making 2D games though. I know this goes against common wisdom, but that's the same common wisdom that said "just use Unity". I made a bare-bones thing on top of MonoGame in 3-4 weeks, and that's because I implemented an ECS, which I didn't need to (but wanted to do to learn how that works).

Building a 2D "engine" on top of a framework such as MonoGame or SDL is basically just organising and structuring the code as you make the game, and iterate if you make another game. You only need to code the utilities that you need for that game, and some times you have to build them anyway even if you used Unity or some other big engine. In other words, making a minimum 2D engine on top of some framework or library is not such a big deal, it doesn't take that much extra time, and it covers your a$$ if some idiot gets the CEO position at BigEngine Inc.

 

[The-J]

it is one of the flaws of capitalism (or perhaps Wall Street/investment culture/financial media) where the stakeholder transforms to the shareholder from the customer, turning the customer into livestock.

Why does this happen?

Is it because managers are compensated and promoted/fired based on quarterly results?

Is it because investors are looking for opportunities to sell when the price is high?

Is it because once a business is entrenched enough in a market, competitors are effectively barred and so they can spend the bare minimum to service customers?

Is it because managers are looking to cash out quick, quit their jobs, and retire in the Hamptons with a fat stack of cash?

Is it because as companies get bigger, they hire less motivated people who care less about customers and more about getting a check?

Is it because it's a company's moral duty to serve the shareholder regardless of what happens to the stakeholders?

 

[ScreamingClown]

Game Maker Studio is a great game engine provided the game you're building is 2D. It doesn't take any sort of sales cut from the developers.

 

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[ZackerySprague]

They were such a good company back in their Starting phase in 2010. At the time of their public beta release, they gave indie developers the ability to license their own games on the Windows platform (Good ole XP Days) for free in order to compete with the Unreal Engine.

I created a very basic Galaga game in Cube form in a technology class.

 

[ScreamingClown]

They were such a good company back in their Starting phase in 2010. At the time of their public beta release, they gave indie developers the ability to license their own games on the Windows platform (Good ole XP Days) for free in order to compete with the Unreal Engine.

I created a very basic Galaga game in Cube form in a technology class.

Man, that story really takes me back to when their game sharing forum was still open. I would spend hours on that site when I was a kid downloading and sifting through projects and uploading my own.

The program really grew and evolved, and the licensing fees and overall cost of operations are a lot more merciful, at least for PC exports. Only problems I see with it are that porting to consoles is a pain in the a$$, and it's really only good for 2D games.

Unity seems to be backpedaling hard, with tons of employees jumping ship, so hopefully things will return to a state of semi-normalcy, as I would hate to see tons of devs have their hard work knocked down over such a backwards business decision. That being said, it seems like the damage to the brand has already been done.

 

[Xeon]

Perhaps after a bunch of fastlaners are successful with their businesses and are passionate about gaming, could work together to build a new engine to supplant these goliaths. I have seen gaming has been sinking for awhile, it needs fresh blood and ideas. I would love to build a badass new game or engine, but I simply do not have those types of resources. But something I will definitely revisit after I establish my first fastlane business. Nothing until the first business is successful.

Obviously it won't work. Because once those "fastlaners" succeed, they'll make it go public with stakeholders etc and the cycle repeats lol

GREED.

The Hero becomes the Devil that he's trying to defeat and in the process, becomes the Devil himself. This is basically all of us.

 

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[peace of mine]

Yes, I'm solo game developer and been learning Unity and the C# programming language for years. I was preparing to make my entrepreneurial leap next year.

You need an engine to build any modern game because it's too complex to build a custom powerful multi-purpose engine that compile for multiple platforms. Even multi-billion dollar companies use them. For example: Final Fantasy VII Remake a multi-million dollar selling game by Square Enix uses the Unreal Engine along with its upcoming sequel.

Any game engine could take me over $1 billion if I made a hit. Obviously not a sure thing but every developer guns for making a popular game that sells well.

Similarly to how you need a camera for shooting movies, blockbuster or indie, you need a game engine to iterate and design games efficiently. Imagine if camera manufacturers charged you a fee for every photo you posted.

Fortunately there are alternatives, but not many. They differ on capability and difficulty to learn. The most popular among AAA developers is Unreal which uses the C++ programming language. A slightly harder language than C# which Unity uses.

The latest version Unreal was used to create this demo:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU0gvPcc3jQ

You should have a look into Godot then.
It is completely Open Source and the game you create is yours.
I also could not decide between Unity, Godot or Unreal.
But I saw the red flags of Unity months ago and went into Godot.
Amazing community and it gets better and better with time.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I'll say this now and give everyone a headsup: A lot of people here use Klaviyo and they are going public -- so be warned; their service is about to go to shit with higher prices, and less value.

 

[EmotionEngine]

You should have a look into Godot then.
It is completely Open Source and the game you create is yours.
I also could not decide between Unity, Godot or Unreal.
But I saw the red flags of Unity months ago and went into Godot.
Amazing community and it gets better and better with time.

Yeah, I started looking into Godot and a couple others. I have some tutorials I'll go through this weekend possibly. Thanks!

 

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[Plushy]

That is tough, I was using Unity for my game but I'm willing to switch it to another platform.

I feel like the decision is this
Unity is easy to use, because that company controls everything, updates everything, makes sure its easy to use to entice developers to use it. Their profit is used in investing in making the engine better, therefore you can focus more time on making your game rather than fiddling with making the engine work. But because they made it easy to gamedev, you pay for that by losing control.

If I switch to something like Godot or some of the other ones I'm considering, there's a bigger overhead in programming more stuff that isn't available, but there's the benefit that you maintain control / ownership over it. But also the cost that you have to do more things yourself. Rather than being able to focus on game design, you split focus to go into more programming too or trying to find ways to make what you want.

Ideally I would love full control over how it's made, but that would go into making my own engine which is an unnecessarily hard trade off.

 

[EmotionEngine]

A bit dramatic, as everything around "indie" game development. The loudest developers won't ever make 200k in revenue, so it doesn't affect them. But yeah, Unity sucks. This is one of the reasons why I made one of my games on something else (it's one of my threads here). I remember people saying "just use Unity", but I refused partially for this reason (and that was when Unity didn't stink yet). The game didn't make a dime, so it didn't matter, but I'm glad I can re-purpose it if I want to, without dealing with Unity's shit. They can't take it away from me and I don't have to rewrite it on something else, how cool is that? I made another game in Unity at the end, because it was a mobile game and it was more convenient. But it was a nightmare to maintain and keep up-to-date: constant breaking changes, then the stupid IronSource change for the ads. I had the last straw a few months ago and I'll let it die, no biggie. It made around $20, more than I was expecting.

I hope this drama opened some people's stubborn minds and they give open source projects a chance. There are good game engines that can suffice for some kind of games. Proprietary software is okay for the most part, but Unity started to stink long ago, and I'm not surprised at all that they are making use of the control people gave them. Web technologies favour open source for a reason, because you are putting all your eggs into someone else's basket, and whether that goes well or not is not under your control.

Dramatic for sure, but my day job is a company that uses Unity, even though my intention is to start my own studio next year. It's real for me right now. We have millions of installs. Also, for Indie devs, they don't make a game for it not to sell. If you happened to make a viral F2P game and it does not have a ton of revenue from in-app purchases, this "Runtime Fee" model could bankrupt your company. Unity did not think this through well at all.

Example:
Unity wants 108% of our gross revenue

Sure there's alternatives but outside of Unity and Unreal, name one that has support like they do, like consoles PlayStation, Nintendo Switch and Xbox.

---------------------------
Response on that reddit post:

 

[srodrigo]

Sure there's alternatives but outside of Unity and Unreal, name one that has support like they do, like consoles PlayStation, Nintendo Switch and Xbox.

MonoGame does support all major consoles. Plenty of good 2D games (Celeste, Hades, among others). This is the number 1 out there apart from Unity and Unreal in terms of console support.

Defold supports Switch and PS4. PS5 says Q32023, Xbox Q22024.

Godot will eventually have a third party that offer support with ports. I don't know the status of this.

Haxe (Heaps.io I think) does as well, although I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole, personally.

EDIT: I managed to send the post accidentally.

I agree that mobile F2P games are screwed up. The numbers just don't work out for many games.

There's life after Unity. Every software company I've worked for have switched technologies after years invested on X tech. They are all still running. It sucks, but that's the nature of tech. Unless, of course, you invest in your own engine that won't get a rugpull. I know not every company can do this, and it depends on the type of game. People just need to be okay with rugpulls if they primarily bet on some other company's tech.

BTW it looks like Cult of the Lamb were just teasing people

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1702091821273461176

View: https://twitter.com/cultofthelamb/status/1702091821273461176


Will you be creating a progress thread for your new studio? I'd be interested in following.

 

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[EmotionEngine]

MonoGame does support all major consoles. Plenty of good 2D games (Celeste, Hades, among others). This is the number 1 out there apart from Unity and Unreal in terms of console support.

Defold supports Switch and PS4. PS5 says Q32023, Xbox Q22024.

Godot will eventually have a third party that offer support with ports. I don't know the status of this.

Haxe (Heaps.io I think) does as well, although I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole, personally.

Very informed response. I will take a look at MonoGame for sure. Thanks!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The Commandment of Control... again...



And I say this as someone who also has been burned by the same platform investment..

I've invested 10+ years into this forum platform, and it has gone down the tubes, and evolved slower than a neanderthal.

 

[Trismigistus]

Dramatic for sure, but my day job is a company that uses Unity, even though my intention is to start my own studio next year. It's real for me right now. We have millions of installs. Also, for Indie devs, they don't make a game for it not to sell. If you happened to make a viral F2P game and it does not have a ton of revenue from in-app purchases, this "Runtime Fee" model could bankrupt your company. Unity did not think this through well at all.

Example:
Unity wants 108% of our gross revenue

Sure there's alternatives but outside of Unity and Unreal, name one that has support like they do, like consoles PlayStation, Nintendo Switch and Xbox.

---------------------------
Response on that reddit post:
View attachment 51348

I can't help but think about MJs advice about hitchhiking. Rely on a platform then you are controlled by that platform.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I can't help but think about MJs advice about hitchhiking. Rely on a platform then you are controlled by that platform.

Yup, and even I am not immune!

 

[Trait]

If unity crumbles, it will take a lot of risk out of our market since they bought up quite a few of our competitors.

A bit off topic but, are you going to compete with Unreal Engine? or are you guys aiming at some specific Niche of games like Sidescrollers etc?