Thoughts On Direct Mail

[Rickson9]

"Listen, I know it’s not “sexy†and not technologically advanced like the latest blog trick to get motivated seller leads, but in my opinion, direct mail is the #1 way to get deals and will probably stay that way for years to come. The main reason is because it’s not as “easy†as marketing on the internet, which is of course fine with me, because that means less competition in the mail boxes."

"Plus, I don’t remember who said it, but there’s a quote that goes “if you want to be successful, watch what 95% of the people are doing and then do the exact opposite.†And we both know that 95% of people are looking for the trick to getting easy deals courtesy of the Internet."

"However, if you go to your local REIA and talk to the super successful people (who often don’t gloat and remain under the radar) you’ll find the majority of them use direct mail. In fact, this is exactly what I did when I first started out in this business and most of them were using letters and postcards."

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2011/05/08/direct-mail-real-estate-investing/

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Chitown]

Rickson,

Direct mail is often mentioned as a dead media outlet. Talk about fiction being bandied about as fact! I will soon start using Yellow Letters to generate leads for my fledgling real estate investment company.

I'm sick and tired of chasing REO's while other investors I know are doing, literally, 4-7 deals per month, based on leads generated through the mail.

 

[Inphinity]

Personally, I think direct mail is still a valuable source, but I believe it *is* dying, in some industries at least. many people simply don't even bother reading through mail unless it is clearly marked as or is packaged as something they immediately recognise - a power bill, a birthday card, etc.

That said, part of it is exactly that - making your mailout attention-grabbing enough that people actually bother reading it - and most just don't make this cut.

 

[Gonzosan]

How is internet marketing easy? It's heavily saturated, if anything it's harder. Direct mail can be good, but I believe it is dying, not to mention you're limiting yourself to such a small quantity of people. Not only that, but I'm sure it costs a lot more to create these ads on Paper. Personally I hate paper mail, most if not all my mail is junk mail, I have everything paperless. Most of the time I throw away my mail without even bothering to read it, and I'm not alone. There's a trash big inside the mail boxes area and it's almost always full of junk mail.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[snowbank]

How is internet marketing easy? It's heavily saturated, if anything it's harder. Direct mail can be good, but I believe it is dying, not to mention you're limiting yourself to such a small quantity of people. Not only that, but I'm sure it costs a lot more to create these ads on Paper.

Gonzo,

You're just saying things without thinking about them at all. You're just regurgitating things you've heard somewhere before.

I know you're new and trying to learn- the best advice I can give you is, you need to think about things and come to your own conclusions. Try to break things down logically.(why is this how it is? could i make it better? how could i make it better? would x work? would y work? why aren't other people doing this? are other people doing this?, wouldn't this be a better way, etc...) Don't read/hear things and then assume they are correct. Learn to think differently than others, and you can be very successful. Learn to think the same as others, and the best you can do is be average. Average sucks.

There is no such thing as a saturated niche. It doesn't exist. If you're going to be better than everyone else, it's irrelevant how many people are attempting to make money at something. Show me a "saturated" niche I'll show you 99% of people doing the same thing.

Nothing's "dying". You're creativity will die if you think like this.

you're limiting yourself to such a small quantity of people

this is just confusing

How is internet marketing easy? It's heavily saturated, if anything it's harder. Direct mail can be good, but I believe it is dying, not to mention you're limiting yourself to such a small quantity of people. Not only that, but I'm sure it costs a lot more to create these ads on Paper.

Re-read this with the bolded parts. These are all things you thought were negative or limiting. I read the same things and see the opposite.

 

[snowbank]

I'm sick and tired of chasing REO's while other investors I know are doing, literally, 4-7 deals per month, based on leads generated through the mail.

Why wouldn't you just look at exactly what they're doing and learn to do it as good or better. Who do they mail to, and what do they write when they mail? Do that, and think about how you can improve it. It's usually much easier to improve on things being a small business because big businesses don't focus on a lot of the little things. Those little things become edges for small businesses like yourself. If they're doing 4-7 deals/month, you should have a ridiculous edge on them. Look for your edges. Exploit them.

 

[randallg99]

direct mail has evolved into a "target marketing" mechanism and in a way, you are correct in that it has lost its appeal when selling to the masses. Very few businesses have the means and products/services to sell to the masses, which is the very reason why direct mail has lost its importance... this popularly called "junk" is actually very expensive to produce and send in the mail.

Department stores, supermarkets, box stores are large proponents of direct mail but you should realize they use direct mail in conjunction with many other forms of marketing.

As effective as direct mail is, it typically has excellent returns only when used in conjunction with other forms of branding/marketing

Direct mail is also competing (and used with) with all of the electronic mediums i.e. internet (banners, links, clicks, adwords); emails; radio; television. Not to mention billboards, flyers, newspapers, magazines, etc...

All that said direct mail still has a valuable place in the marketing world. Much like the internet, direct mail can be utilized to target a certain customer base and like all forms of marketing, it has to be done properly.... you need to answer the customers needs.

let's say for example you're in the surgical supply business, you'll find it financially feasible to spend funds on a data base for a client base that has use for those products.

Much like if you're in the RE biz looking for preforclosures, you have the ability to get info on neighborhoods with highest rates of default and zero in a campaign on them....You'll find that it can be rather easy to do a cost effective campaign... there are many different ways to obtain this kind of data, but the easiest way is to simply call mail houses and let them know what you're trying to do.

You may be surprised at the results and prices.

I used to send a few million pieces per year and utilized several companies. Some companies specialize in the complete campaign (layout, print and mail) while I sometimes sourced out the different companies based on specialty and did the complete piece myself. In other words, I obtained the data from one company and then I would submit to a mail house who would label my envelopes while I would contract a printer to make the pieces.

All of what I did depended on what I was trying to achieve.

Good luck

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[JEdwards]

In my life I have spent well over 1,000,000 bucks on Direct Mail.

If it is niche and a good deal it works.

 

[maralevin]

I find all the above comments very interesting, since I'm involved with direct mail. My clients who successfully use direct mail send it, as part of larger campaigns with emails and banner ads, to limited and targeted groups. Like finding a job these days, it's better to use more than one approach to reach people. A mailing to an untargeted group could be a waste of precious resources. One time I bought a targeted mailing list and got a high return for my investment, with inquiries coming in for more than a year. Several years later, I did an almost identical mailing and didn't get a singe order from it. The economy had changed and destroyed that market. However, I don't consider that the mailing was wasted, because it gave me the information I needed to change direction and look for a new product. And because it was a targeted mailing, my losses were limited.

 

[Gonzosan]

Gonzo,

You're just saying things without thinking about them at all. You're just regurgitating things you've heard somewhere before.

I know you're new and trying to learn- the best advice I can give you is, you need to think about things and come to your own conclusions. Try to break things down logically.(why is this how it is? could i make it better? how could i make it better? would x work? would y work? why aren't other people doing this? are other people doing this?, wouldn't this be a better way, etc...) Don't read/hear things and then assume they are correct. Learn to think differently than others, and you can be very successful. Learn to think the same as others, and the best you can do is be average. Average sucks.

There is no such thing as a saturated niche. It doesn't exist. If you're going to be better than everyone else, it's irrelevant how many people are attempting to make money at something. Show me a "saturated" niche I'll show you 99% of people doing the same thing.

Nothing's "dying". You're creativity will die if you think like this.



this is just confusing



Re-read this with the bolded parts. These are all things you thought were negative or limiting. I read the same things and see the opposite.

I didn't read things anywhere, this is all of my thinking. Direct Mail I'm assuming is reaching people by mail. Personally I think everything is going digital, that's where you can reach the highest number of people. Can you send direct mail all over the world? Maybe, but is it worth it financially? That's what I mean, I'm not trying to sound negative at all, I believe anything is possible if you really put the work into it. I'm just pointing out that internet marketing is so much more efficient and reaches so many more people. I never said anything with intent to say "this is why you cant' do it". I did it to point out what I believe is more useful, I do believe that it's a dying way to market to people. Yes obviously anything can be accomplished if you set your mind to it, I'm very open minded to anything, but personally I'd rather focus my attention on what will reach the most people. I meant Internet marketing is saturated in regards to the OP saying it was "easy". It's far from easy, but this is the perception everyone has and 99% of the people do this. This is also why affiliate marketing seems glamorous at first until you realize that everyone is doing it. I know I may come off negative, but I never said he couldn't do it. He asked for opinions on it, so I gave them. I'm just one to always look at what's new and most effective. To me there's no better medium to showcase anything to people than the internet. Like Ragdallg said it's incredible expensive to produce direct mail. Is it worth it? Maybe, but it just seems like a lot of work for little reach.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DeletedUser2]

Direct Mail I'm assuming is reaching people by mail.

Personally I think everything is going digital, that's where you can reach the highest
Are you doing direct mail?

it's incredible expensive to produce direct mail. Is it worth it? Maybe, but it just seems like a lot of work for little reach.

do you know how much work it is?

how much it cost?
do you buy your traffic? ppc? ppv? media buys? or is it seo?

direct mail works if you understand it. and utilize it. just like ppc, media buys ect.

in seo, you spend lots of time, to build links, hoping traffic stumbles to your page and you can make a sale.
its still a small % that buys

in ppc you pay x to get Y clicks, and a small percentage buys

in ppv, you pay x to get Y views and a small percentage buys
same with media buys

in DM mail you pay X to get Y response, and a small percentage buys.

its just another channel. that's all. when you maxed out your current channel you add other channels.

sometimes what yoru selling is not a world wide saleable thing. so world wide exposure, while it sounds good, is not always the best. the guy in south africa does not care if you can save 15% or more with geico if its not available to him.

the point with DM is that you can target very specifically people who are most likely to buy your product.
but for the $ invested vs the $ returned its an awesome ROI.

as for seeing the world going more digital, meh,

it will over time but there are lots of baby boomers with a lifetime of habits of using mail. they still read.

and I had a guy the other day bring in a DM piece, and asked if we thought it was a good idea for him (it was selling a 10K seminar) He had bought 3 other 10K seminars, so the DM guy could find him, and get a piece of DM mail into his hands that said, buy another one. you know what, it worked. he forked over 10K and went to the seminar.

If I could use DM to get to that market, I would. not many 24yr olds would fork over 10K, but a whole bunch of 50 yr olds would, and they respond to DM better than many online ads.

so it really depends on the market you are trying to reach. I would not discount it out hand.

If 50 yr olds who bought 10K seminars used mirrors and airplanes. I would buy a campaign that used airplanes too!
just my 2 cents.

its the market your trying to reach, that defines the channel

 

[Gonzosan]

I think you guys are taking my posts way out of proportion. He asked for opinions, and I gave mine, that's it. I have a mindset that internet is the way to go. Direct Mail is great, but a lot of what you can do with DM can be done on the internet. It really just depends on who you're targeting. Obviously if the people you target don't use computers much, then DM would definitely help. Worldwide isn't for everything, I'm just saying you target so many more people. I'd rather send out a newsletter via email that's automated and goes out to hundreds of thousands of people. you can I never said I was an expert on DM, or even know how it works entirely. Please stop picking my posts apart, everyone here is entitled to their opinion.

 

[DeletedUser2]

fair enough,

for newsletters, I agree, the interwebs are awesome.

for alot of things the interwebs are awesome.

just wanted you to be aware of the internet, or DM is just a tool to build a business. its a higher level of thinking, rather than the tool IS the business.

good luck on any venture you do!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[hatterasguy]

I have great success using it to find deals, I usually get a 5%-10% call rate on my mailings, sometimes as high as 15%.

 

[Chitown]

Why wouldn't you just look at exactly what they're doing and learn to do it as good or better. Who do they mail to, and what do they write when they mail? Do that, and think about how you can improve it. It's usually much easier to improve on things being a small business because big businesses don't focus on a lot of the little things. Those little things become edges for small businesses like yourself. If they're doing 4-7 deals/month, you should have a ridiculous edge on them. Look for your edges. Exploit them.

Snowbank,

I should have written a better-constructed paragraph.

You and I are on the same page. I am looking at what other successful investors are doing with direct marketing and copying their methods while adding my own slight but significant variations. One idea, the "Yellow Letter", has been shown to receive a response rate of 5-10%. I'll take that type of percentage any day of the week for customer acquisition.

I wasted precious time chasing bank owned properties when there is an entire universe of non-bank owned deals -- with healthier margins, frankly -- just waiting to be consummated.

Direct mail works like gangbusters. Whoever said the medium was dead should speak with my marketing mentor, who mentored under Gary Halbert for a couple of years. He has friends and clients with businesses doing $10,000,000 -- $50,000,000 a year -- all from direct mail. Apparently, somebody still reads the junk delivered by the USPS.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

but in my opinion, direct mail is the #1 way to get deals and will probably stay that way for years to come. The main reason is because it’s not as “easy” as marketing on the internet, which is of course fine with me, because that means less competition in the mail boxes."

I've always loved direct mail and it's effectiveness is dependent on your target audience, your list, and your offer. Like online marketing, it is a science. Wrong list = failure. Bad offer = Failure. Like any marketing medium, its success is dependent on the campaign components.

I think Tony (AJGlobal) is currently doing a huge DM campaign with good results ... maybe he can chime in?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[mrhahn]

What niches, in your experiences, have good ROI when it comes to Direct Mail campaigns?

 

[Matt J]

Direct mail works like gangbusters. Whoever said the medium was dead should speak with my marketing mentor, who mentored under Gary Halbert for a couple of years. He has friends and clients with businesses doing $10,000,000 -- $50,000,000 a year -- all from direct mail. Apparently, somebody still reads the junk delivered by the USPS.

Is your mentor's name Dan by any chance? Works mainly as a copywriter?

 

[Chitown]

Is your mentor's name Dan by any chance? Works mainly as a copywriter?

Why yes, his name is Dan.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.