This is a discussion that needs to be started...

[GlobalWealth]

You can worry about the world or you can worry about YOUR world.

great comment

 

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[CarrieW]

found this forum while looking for something completely unrelated but thought of this thread and thought the link may be useful to someone here...

Survival Preparedness Homesteading Forum

still havent found what I am looking for yet so back to google for me!

 

[Rem]

Throughout the history of the world, there has been peace, recessions, depressions, wars, revolutions.... and there have always been wealthy people who strive during these times. I think it is normal to discuss them, prepare for the events we see ahead in our lifetimes, and adjust accordingly. Personally I see a decline in Western Civilization and in our economic status. This is normal if you stand back and look at history as a whole. The question is how you are going to benefit from it? You can follow the herd to the slaughter or you can seek refuge?

It's like playing football. Is it sunny out? Is it raining? snowing? You still have to play the game, no matter what the weather is. Tactics may change, but you are still playing football.

 

[Anon3587x]

Personally I see a decline in Western Civilization and in our economic status

What do you think are some of the causes for the decline?

 

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[RyanG]

Ryan..you are young easily inspired and think the world is full of mysteries.. it's ok this is called adolescence and it will pass when reality comes more into focus. I know this because I've been there too.

In fact your Venus project, which I am sure you are excited very much about, was about an hour drive from where I lived - my friends visited it and the main guy behind it.. do you know what he has there? A bunch of swamp
land. "If we only had 500 million to build the machines" well..you don't.

You can worry about the world or you can worry about YOUR world. Reality always wins in the end, unless you hop on happy pills and the bottle - and reality is - look around, and imagine yourself from what other people around you see you as. Look at the mirror, this is who they see every day, your own voice sounds different to them. They don't lie to themselves about your abilities to "easily open a business/become a music producer/ pro blogger" if only "there was a shot given by someone"

I'll give you respect, despite the fact that you'r entire reply was to talk down on me as a result of my age and opinions I've expressed....with that all due respect, I disagree with you. I'm not blindly inspired or riled up over run of the mill hype or rumor. I have educated myself on the financial market without being a product of it -- and I can see where it is headed. It's not even a matter of opinion anymore, it's mathematical fact.

You can write me, yourself, and whoever else you want off for whatever reason that makes you comfortable -- insignificance, inability, delusion, ect... but it's not the way I think. I couldn't care less what other people see, hear, say, or think about me. That is adolescence. And if passion, inspiration, innovation, and vision in things are looked at as naive, young, and stupid -- then I'll take those accusations gladly, and wear them throughout my entire life.

But I thought, if anywhere, this forum would be a place where like-minded people would be and where these type of conversations belonged; without all the undercutting, negative, and petty, comments and insults. Lesson learned.

 

[Anon3587x]

I'll give you respect, despite the fact that you'r entire reply was to talk down on me as a result of my age and opinions I've expressed....with that all due respect, I disagree with you. I'm not blindly inspired or riled up over run of the mill hype or rumor. I have educated myself on the financial market without being a product of it -- and I can see where it is headed. It's not even a matter of opinion anymore, it's mathematical fact.

You can write me, yourself, and whoever else you want off for whatever reason that makes you comfortable -- insignificance, inability, delusion, ect... but it's not the way I think. I couldn't care less what other people see, hear, say, or think about me. That is adolescence. And if passion, inspiration, innovation, and vision in things are looked at as naive, young, and stupid -- then I'll take those accusations gladly, and wear them throughout my entire life.

But I thought, if anywhere, this forum would be a place where like-minded people would be and where these type of conversations belonged; without all the undercutting, negative, and petty, comments and insults. Lesson learned.

/facepalm

He wasn't talking down on you.

You just don't understand where he is coming from. I can almost guarantee most of the older members were thinking the same thing Rawr was, but they just didn't feel like taking the time to type out and articulate their thoughts.

 

[RyanG]

All good. Like I said, no disrespect.

It's a matter of different outlooks and priorities, we'll agree to disagree.

 

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[Anon3587x]

All good. Like I said, no disrespect.

It's a matter of different outlooks and priorities, we'll agree to disagree.

This was a matter of two people in different stages of life; with the younger 'adolescence' thinking he knows better than someone who has 'been there' and 'done that'.

Rawr gave you the best advice you will find just about anywhere. Just stop acting like you know better and actually read what he said.

 

[Russ H]

To tell you the truth, I don't know who Peter Schiff is. . . .

I'm personally going to South America -- Brazil, Columbia, or Venezuela for the beaches and the women.

If you get anything out of this thread, bubba, watch some Peter Schiff videos. You will learn a lot.

Then, read up or watch some vids on what life is REALLY like in South America. There's a lot more going on than sunshine, beaches, and women in skimpy bikinis.

If you have gold in SA, plan on hiring a militia to protect you.

'Cause as biophase pointed out, you won't have it-- or your life-- for long if you can't defend it.

-Russ H.

 

[Anon3587x]

haha RussH I was going to make a comment about you in my last post. This seems like the sort of thread you normally jump in and bring your wisdom to.

 

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[Graves]

Another thing to clarify is, by adding value to society, I don't mean how hard they work or how much time they put into it. Garbage men, farmers, & construction workers work 100 times harder and longer -- for a fraction of the pay, and they contribute a lot more value to society. Just not in a lucrative way. Doctors don't even get paid that, unless they're giving girls fake tits & bigger lips.

Explain further.
I've worked a few times in part-time jobs for minimum wage. If I contributed so much value then wouldn't I have been able to command a seven figure salary ?
Or maybe is it just that entry-level jobs are just what they are - low value work that anyone with a pulse can do, hence the grueling work conditions and low pay ?

 

[danoodle]

You might also consider getting into real estate with the record lows, foreclosures galore, and strong rental market. It would be a "tangible" asset that would retain its value despite what happens to the dollar. Also, the income produced from it is a "sure thing" as opposed to "wishing and hoping" on appreciation of a lump of metal, and getting out at the "right" time. Don't get me wrong, I like PMs, but you may want to consider some other options as well. Cheers!

 

[InMotion]

The most important currency if the shit hits the fan will be firearms and ammo

Accurate. Invest in arms companies, its a safe bet; it was during the world wars and it will be the next time around. If america goes, so goes the global financial system. Buying into fear and paranoia is the surest way to stay poor; hope your hiding your gold in your bunker. The people that always eat well in these situations take by force; fact.

 

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[Brander]

Still a good book after decades is "How I found freedom in an unfree world" by Harry Browne.

I was and still am quite idealistic, but I had to face the facts that I shouldn't worry about things that are out of my control. I can prepare for an eventuality, I can either continue to live well and earn well (which has immediate impact on the quality of my life) or I can go into politics and try to change the world to the one I would want to live in. It's a dirty business and I am too straight to the point to ever get elected by the masses (they love their bullshit). I still might later in my forties, but for now I am content to better my life and enjoy my toys and free time.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, although there is certainly a great case to be made for potential high inflation at the end of the financial mess the Western world has created, I'm not sure you want to buy in to heavy on the "gold, gold, gold" solution to it. If/when the financial mess hits the fan, what exactly is your gold going to do? Will it make a profit people need in those times? Will gold give people a place to live? Will it protect them from attack of mobs? Will gold plow the field for your new crops? What EXACTLY will gold do? Where will you keep it? How will you extract the supposed value in those times?

No, I think gold MAY be a small part of the solution - if that. Nothing beats a profitable business that will stay important. Inflation? Charge more.

Gold is so over-hyped right now that all my instincts and logic tell me it is NOT what it is being sold as for the "guns and seeds" believers. Actually... come to think of it, it's not nearly as useful in the doomsday scenerio as the guns and seeds! Most of the gold/doomsday hype comes from fastlane sellers of their products, service or books relating to it. I don't totally dismiss the likelihood of another financial meltdown fairly soon, I just question the solutions.

 

[Scuderia]

I use to be in the hyper inflation camp, but then i woke up. There's not going to be hyper inflation, in fact the US can easily afford to spend $2-3 trillion if they really wanted to. Debt to GDP isn't as bad as most other countries. Look at Japan, its debt to GDP is 220% of their economy. On the long-term horizon its bad, with all the unfunded liabilities its bad. But it can be managed.

The people trying to sell you the hyper inflation myth, are either out to get your money OR can't read data.

 

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[CommonCents]

stagflation, many things you own go down in value(esp intangible financials), while things you need, go up in price. If you notice at grocery store, not only are prices going up, but the container/portion size are going down. It's staggering the number of products that have maintained price but the size/net wet of the package/product has gone down 10-20%.

 

[Pinnacle]

"What really needs to be done is a shift in the paradigm of people stuck on a system that generations have seen their whole lifetime -- but is obviously very broken and doing more harm then good. " -Ryan G

"Until then, follow MJs advice and try to impact millions with your product,site,solution,etc." - Deseingalt

I'm almost positive I'm in the minority here, but this problem can be reversed. By doing the very things you both suggested, the end of the world (if it can even happen at this point) won't happen if we do our part to reverse it. Ironically, doing our part involves pursuing our own separate interests without infringing on the rights of others to do the same. The reason huge challenges like this arise directly results from infringing on the rights of others to pursue their separate interests. We have a centrally planned economy that never required central planning in the first place. Statesmen should be running the government; not the country. As long as the public lacks the political will to stop it, this will continue. A lot of this discussion centers around the shrinking middle class. The main objective for many is to try and preserve, restore, or revive the middle class to solve some of these issues. I argue that we should eliminate the class system entirely so everyone and anyone can live in an environment of equal opportunity rather than equal results. You accomplish this by addressing the real problem: the perception of voters. Politicians and central bankers are not the problem: voters are. Politicians and central bankers have never been the true leaders: private citizens have.

I don't believe in the notion that you should only focus on yourself because there is nothing you can do about the world's problems. I believe you can solve the world's problems by focusing on your own, because the more individuals do the same, the more apparent the results will be.

As long as Fastlaners around the world keep doing what we're doing, the world will be fine. We got this! We're fine.

 

[biggeemac]

I have taken some steps to prepare for these types of scenarios. But I think rather then trying to stockpile several years worth of food and gold/silver and other things for my familys needs, I concentrate on a scenario where I really dont have to use money for hardly anything. I am learning how to be a great negotiator and how to make friends....which is as valuable as gold. I will probably pick up a few acres of property out in the boonies....and I have learned how to grow all of my own food. Eventually, my wife and I will get to the point where we can retire pretty easily....by spending little to no money. Bartering is another form of money. There are many things that would be used as money if the monetary system were to collapse. I think its very important to educate yourself.....so that you can survive in a variety of scenarios. My rule of thumb is this.....if there is ANYTHING in my life that someone else can use to control me, then I need to fix it and make sure im not vulnerable.

Here is a video that I enjoyed.... How to have a home with no house payments and no utility bills! - YouTube

 

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[Russell]

Ryan could be right, it seems like things are going that way, but I'm just about smart enough to realise I just plain suck at predicting the future.

Here's the thing, buying gold and silver is for those in the slowlane. Instead trade your fastlane bits of paper for income producing assets. And more importantly make those assets produce the essentials of life. I realize this isn't a fastlane method for getting rich but is a sensible way to invest your money.

For me it's farm land, agriculture, since that's what I know a LOT about. There's a massive silent global food shortage at the moment, you don't read about it much in the mainstream media because it's not really important like the latest celebrity gossip.

If you know what you're doing there's bargains everywhere in agricultural land at the moment. Farmers all over the Western world are happy to sell off a few acres here and there to pay the bills because our economic system is upside down. Those who produce food for a 1000 people are cash poor (although asset rich) while lawyers who do nothing productive are rich.

When the grocery shelf's are bare, people will happily trade '$100's' worth of silver for a loaf of bread, something I will be able to produce year after year.

Also, if there is no hyper inflation and the economy surges to new heights and we all buy hover-cars and so on, land is still a sound long term investment. It has real value (food) not linked to social trends (Suburban real estate). You can rent farmland out much like real estate, but don't expect yearly returns of 15%! Closer to 5% would be an excellent return. Usually you can rent to the farmer who sold you the land. Of course you always have the option of selling the land or getting it re-zoned and so on.

As long as people keep eating food and they don't start producing more land, your investment is pretty damn sound.

Follow the smart people, at the moment that's the Chinese. They're buying up farm land all over the Western world (Plus the rest of the world), they think land's a bargain. Two huge dairy properties near me just got bought up by Chinese firms, close to 15,000 acres. All the milk will be processed into powder on site and shipped directly to China. Interesting times ahead.

I'm trying to start small, several acres of land with deep blanket peat soils for several grand, mid sized long term tenant farmers looking for some quick cash.

And then we'll go too far and farm land will bubble.

 

[Pete799p]

The most important currency if the shit hits the fan will be firearms and ammo. Because if you stockpile cans of food, water and gold and silver. You won't have it long if you can't defend it.

I am trying to understand what society would look like during hyperinflation and YOU will alot of gold. Can you paint a scenario for me? What would you do different? Do you withdraw gold to use as currency How do you buy food, with cash or gold? What if you don't physically have gold?

I agree with biosphase on this one for more then just defense. There are many a redneck who has gotten rich investing in firearms especially fully auto weapons. Since the assault rifle ban on full auto weapons in the 80's there is now a very limited supply of full auto guns. This in addition to the fact that these weapons will not last forever and will break or need to be rebuilt etc. creates a great supply demand scenario for gun owners. As more people begin to stock pile weapons in the fear of the world melt down the demand for weapons will increase significantly while the supply will decrease due to increased red tape etc. Looking at historical metrics I would much rather own a belt fed 50cal then gold any day of the week.

I have personally seen what happens to guns and gun accessories when people panic. I used to live in a very pro gun state, after Obama got elected everybody started buying up as many guns as they could afford afraid that he was going to take away their gun rights. Within a week you could not find an AK/AR within 250 miles and there was little to no ammo left. I remeber going into my local sporting goods shop and the gun section looked like a place that once used to sell guns, shelves emptied, no guns and no ammo. People that reload were driving to North Dakota to buy primers. In my town the price of an AK pre Obama was $350 post Obama $750+.

 

[Brander]

doing our part involves pursuing our own separate interests without infringing on the rights of others to do the same.

And this is the paradigm that should be the basis od every society, as it is, it is force that is the basis of all societies and has been for at least thousands of years. We are barely out of the jungle as a species my freinds.

 

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[GTC1187]

I agree that our "vivid" conception of "America" being as it was in the 50's-60's today will destroy us eventually.

 

[Gregory Fleming]

For those interested in learning more about what actions to take from this point forward look into...

-Anonymous

Anonymous has an economic plan? Beyond crashing websites and prank calling Scientologists?

 

[CMCarlin]

Very interesting thread and honestly there were so many comments I wanted to reply to I just gave up keeping track.

Overall, I'm in line with the philosophy that the world will keep on spinning. Hyper inflation or not, people will die, will be born and then there is everything else in between.

You know, it's not that bad to invest in precious metals. I don't think it will be the best solution in the even of a meltdown, however.

I have a buddy that invests in silver and gold bouillon. He also stocks guns. I'd say he's got that part right lol.



The thing to remember about the dollar, is that there are a LOT of wealthy (and powerful) organizations and circles of people that like it, and will defend it (their livelihood depends on it). Inflation will happen. It may happen too quickly at times. I don't think America's economy will simply collapse because the dollar will not be worth anything, unless you have the right people engineer the crash to benefit them, much like the housing bubble..... But I digress - at the end of the day, live life, and enjoy, no matter what.

 

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[PatrickP]

Screw guns and gold I invest in myself.

 

[evanwebb]

I agree with planning for the future and understanding business, economic, and social cycles. Strauss & Howe's discussion in "The Fourth Turning" is very interesting and well researched and documented. I think the key is to understand the likelihood of the scenarios discussed in this thread and act accordingly--whatever that looks like for you personally. If you think the paradigm will change, plan for it. If not, then don't. But it seems like you could hedge your bet either way. Nothing wrong with being educated and planning.

That said, is anyone here turning this into a fastlane business? There's a lot of competition in the space right now, but there's also apparently a classic "hungry crowd" seeking this type of information/products. As "prepping" goes mainstream with Discovery Channel and NatGeo shows on the topic, is there an opportunity there? Maybe an under served niche in the space?

 

[Lumpy]

Hers' where all this "guns and seeds" stuff breaks down - What are you actually going to DO with your gun and seed stockpile when the bleep hits the fan? Do you really plan to be a black-market gun dealer? Do you have the know-how and infastructure to deal, let's say $500k worht of guns? I sure don't. Do you plan to shoot anyone who wanders onto your property looking for food or work? Gun down angry mobs? Again, specifically HOW will your huge gun stockpile provide your future security?

Now, if you're talking about a few guns, then that's not a survival plan, it's a hobby.

Seed stockpiles? So you're a know how to farm? Have a huge family willing to plow fields, reap harvests? Pound wheat (or whatever the heck you do to turn it into bread)? See the point?

Let's be honest here, these are ideas sold to many BY fastlane hucksters preying on our fears. One in 100,000 of those who profess "guns and seeds" actually have enough of either to be anything but a farce. Gold? Well, that's a different subject but in a way the same applies. IF things get totally ouyt of control, can you even use your gold to support your future? Are you really going to sink your entire $1MM nest egg into gold? Again, VERY few do this, even those proclaiming the virtue of gold. Why? They really don't know why they are buying it and what it may do for them in the future.

If your plans aren't realistic and YOU have no real ability to implement them, then you need to think in a different direction. Most guns and seed prophets don't own a farm, have no farming knowledge and have never sold a gun or shot a person. I've never done those things either and I don't have that as part of my future planning.

 

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[kwerner]

What are you actually going to DO with your gun and seed stockpile when the bleep hits the fan? Do you really plan to be a black-market gun dealer? Do you have the know-how and infastructure to deal, let's say $500k worht of guns? I sure don't. Do you plan to shoot anyone who wanders onto your property looking for food or work? Gun down angry mobs? Again, specifically HOW will your huge gun stockpile provide your future security?

Now, if you're talking about a few guns, then that's not a survival plan, it's a hobby.

Seed stockpiles? So you're a know how to farm? Have a huge family willing to plow fields, reap harvests? Pound wheat (or whatever the heck you do to turn it into bread)? See the point?

Let's be honest here, these are ideas sold to many BY fastlane hucksters preying on our fears. One in 100,000 of those who profess "guns and seeds" actually have enough of either to be anything but a farce. Gold? Well, that's a different subject but in a way the same applies. IF things get totally ouyt of control, can you even use your gold to support your future? Are you really going to sink your entire $1MM nest egg into gold? Again, VERY few do this, even those proclaiming the virtue of gold. Why? They really don't know why they are buying it and what it may do for them in the future.

If your plans aren't realistic and YOU have no real ability to implement them, then you need to think in a different direction. Most guns and seed prophets don't own a farm, have no farming knowledge and have never sold a gun or shot a person. I've never done those things either and I don't have that as part of my future planning.

Are these real questions??

 

[Guest1254]

Just like Ryan said, most of you are in denial.