The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[James Klymus]

This book was copyright 1946, 75 years ago. Even though he is talking about loans, you could extend what he’s saying to everything government gets involved in. Including response to Covid

When he talks about automation in that book, if you didn’t know it was from 75 years ago, you’d think he was talking about today. It’s astonishing that these same problems existed even a hundred years ago, but no ones left to remember

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

your comment violates the forum rules on politics. I’m not going to delete your comment lest your comrades be upset but I can tell you that if you continue it you will be permanently banned from this thread. Please don’t bash America or the United States president or any political system. That’s not what this forum is for.

Dave's rule: its only a political post if Dave doesn't agree with the political view.

All previous posts and this post below are NOT political. Please conform.

Oh someone is losing his shit here again.

Make screenshots, bros, your posts are to be deleted soon!

F*cking unreal....

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

Please don’t bash America or the United States president

YEAH, DON'T BASH ON MY/YOUR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!

Donald Trump ran on a platform of not being a politician. No more business as usual, he said. To those of you cheering for his response to this, you are idiots. He is more of a politician than most politicians at this point.

He has shown the same lack of leadership you would have expected from a privileged, inexperienced, douche like Beto O'Rourke. He dodges responsibility every chance he gets. He flat out blames everyone else for the decisions he makes. HE IS A BILLIONAIRE BUSINESSMAN AND THE PRESIDENT.

Oh shit, well, um, nothing to see here. This isn't bashing, it's, um, constructive criticism.

 

[Kak]

Dave's rule: its only a political post if Dave doesn't agree with the political view.

All previous posts and this post below are NOT political. Please conform.

View attachment 32627

F*cking unreal....

I don’t see anything political about my post.

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

I don’t see anything political about my post.

I don’t have a problem with your posts, political or not. I have a problems with Dave’s double standards and I have lost 100% of my respect for him.

 

[Vigilante]

I don’t see anything political about my post.

View attachment 32628

If you are replying to one of the people I blocked somebody else will have to come along and clean this up.

in the words of the dearly departed zen*******, zero F*cks given. But you better not be posting political shit either or I will ban your a$$ faster than you can say bootlicker.

 

[Kak]

If you are replying to one of the people I blocked somebody else will have to come along and clean this up.

in the words of the dearly departed zen*******, zero F*cks given. But you better not be posting political shit either or I will ban your a$$ faster than you can say bootlicker.

That’s good because socialism isn’t a political view, it is a mental illness.

 

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[Vigilante]

That’s good because socialism isn’t a political view, it is a mental illness.

That would be an example of a political post, yes. Are you baiting me ravioli?

 

[Kak]

That would be an example of a political post, yes. Are you baiting me ravioli?

Ok so just so I’m clear. Mental health posts are also against the rules?

 

[Vigilante]

Ok so just so I’m clear. Mental health posts are also against the rules?

Let’s just say anything that would be offensive to tolerance. Read your post back to yourself and say… “ Could this be misconstrued and offensive to anybody?“

And god forbid you edit anything you post. Don’t do that either.

oh and don’t mention incongruent data.

or God. Or North Korea.

 

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[MTF]

Is Harbin China's new Wuhan? | The Spectator

Now the city of 10 million people is on partial lockdown, barely three weeks after the Wuhan lockdown was eased. Four districts in the city, including the one where the international airport is located, are fully locked down, with residents unable to leave. The rest of the country is treating Harbin as it might London – anyone arriving from there must undergo a two-week quarantine. Schools, which were meant to open last week, stay closed.

Is this how we're going to live now, from one lockdown to another? How long before someone in charge finally realizes how unsustainable and destructive this approach is?

 

[SteveO]

I don’t have a problem with your posts, political or not. I have a problems with Dave’s double standards and I have lost 100% of my respect for him.

@Vigilante has been a staple on this forum for many years. His input here has helped many people along the way. He is very knowledgeable and has great insight as a businessman. His reputation is legendary.

He has always been a bit brash but that is one of the reasons he has been so loved here.

I respect him and his contributions to this forum. I know who I will stand behind regardless of the charges leveled.

 

[Vigilante]

@Vigilante has been a staple on this forum for many years. His input here has helped many people along the way. He is very knowledgeable and has great insight as a businessman. His reputation is legendary.

He has always been a bit brash but that is one of the reasons he has been so loved here.

I respect him and his contributions to this forum. I know who I will stand behind regardless of the charges leveled.

Are there charges leveled? Thank you for your kind email. The charges must be from my haters which I have blocked anyway so I have zero concerns. Ha. Great forum feature.

All of the other moderators have abandoned this thread and I believe they all have it blocked. Everybody wanted it closed and I’m the only one that kept it open because despite the noise there are legendary posts in here from @GIlman and others. This thread will resign itself to forum history as the virus dies down.

As you know the forum generally has a self filtering affect over time. I have enough haters that I could fill the pages of another worst selling book with the details of them but nobody would read it because nobody cares.

Thanks for the note. Carry-on and I hope you and your family are well.

 

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[MTF]

For those who still follow this thread for updates, an interesting interview with Anders Tegnell who manages the situation in Sweden: Swedish official Anders Tegnell says 'herd immunity' in Sweden might be a few weeks away

We have taken reasonable measures without really hurting health care or schools. We are going for a sustainable strategy; something we can keep on doing for months. Coronavirus is not something that is just going to go away. Any country that believes it can keep it out (by closing borders, shuttering businesses, etc.) will most likely be proven wrong at some stage. We need to learn to live with this disease.

A sustainable strategy, what a novel idea!

 

[Vigilante]

I think you see a sharp (and measurable) difference between those whose income is secure, so sheltering in place is a holiday... and those whose income is destroyed where sheltering and place is destructive and possibly cataclysmic. It's easy for those pummeled by the economy to say "get back to work" and easy for those whose financial fortunes are unaffected to say "safer at home." Business owners destroyed, workers in many cases better off. The balance between medical catastrophy and personal destruction has been a source of two groups of people talking past each other. Thus the phrase... we're all in the same storm but not all in the same boat.

Coronavirus Relief Often Pays Workers More Than Work

Roughly half of all U.S. workers stand to earn more in unemployment benefits than they did at their jobs before the coronavirus pandemic shut down wide swaths of the U.S. economy, a result of government relief that employers say is complicating plans to reopen businesses.

www.wsj.com

 

[Thoelt53]

Doctors make their case against lockdown:

View: https://youtu.be/c2xg_wmFbEE



Not sure what to make of this one, but it’s interesting after reading about medical workers killing themselves in NYC:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJ21gQ4l_A

 

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[MoneyDoc]

@ChrisV
Hey man, serious question. Do you own a business? If not, are you getting the stimulus check/EI? Or are you still working?

 

[ChrisV]

I've worked from home for the past like... 3 years. Not much has changed for me.

Haven't applied for a stimulus check yet, but you can apply for it regardless of if you file W2s or 1099s.

 

[MoneyDoc]

I've worked from home for the past like... 3 years. Not much has changed for me.

Haven't applied for a stimulus check yet, but you can apply for it regardless of if you file W2s or 1099s.

Oh okay. I'm not in the USA, so I was just wondering.

But I meant are you self-employed? Or corporate?

 

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[ChrisV]

A little bit of both. I'm self-employed, but I subcontract.

I file 1099s.

Also, I think you're misunderstanding what a stimulus check is. Every American citizen gets a stimulus check. They do it during a recession to stimulate economies.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

I think you see a sharp (and measurable) difference between those whose income is secure, so sheltering in place is a holiday... and those whose income is destroyed where sheltering and place is destructive and possibly cataclysmic. It's easy for those pummeled by the economy to say "get back to work" and easy for those whose financial fortunes are unaffected to say "safer at home." Business owners destroyed, workers in many cases better off. The balance between medical catastrophy and personal destruction has been a source of two groups of people talking past each other. Thus the phrase... we're all in the same storm but not all in the same boat.

I'm in the "unaffected" category, but can't stomach seeing people living in absolute fear.

Afraid to walk their dogs or live a normal existence, lest they get a virus or get arrested.

It's sad to watch.

...and makes me uncontrollably furious on a semi-regular basis.

 

[James Klymus]

Part 2:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Q4naYOYDw

 

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[MoneyDoc]

A little bit of both. I'm self-employed, but I subcontract.

I file 1099s.

Also, I think you're misunderstanding what a stimulus check is. Every American citizen gets a stimulus check. They do it during a recession to stimulate economies.

Yeah sorry I'm not in the USA. I meant EI - employment insurance payments.

Anyways, so you got income coming in. I'm glad to hear.

My business was impacted originally, but it's picked up to normal levels since.

So let's forget about "us" as we're more than okay. We got money coming in, food, shelter, etc.

What about the poor? What about the 3rd world countries that have initiated lockdowns? What about that 10 year old kid that would normally polish shoes to make $3-$5/day to eat a slice of bread, has suddenly lost all his customers? What about him? What is he thinking? If you were in that kids position, what would your views be on lockdown vs no lockdown? I'm very curious to know.

I personally believe that the people advocating for extended lockdowns, besides the few outliers, couldn't give a sh*t about the health of others. What they care about is staying home and getting money. People are starting to realize that they can get used to staying home. People are starting to realize that they really do hate their jobs. Do you know how many people are taking advantage of these Government programs in Canada? Even though the Government will get the money back from those that abuse the programs, the simple act of "lying" or falsely applying to get funds even though you haven't been impacted, says a lot about the motives of these people. These are the same people that are deferring their mortgages for 6 months even though not one person has lost their job in their household. These are the same people advocating for extended lockdowns. So no mortgage, an additional $2k/month (in Canada) + corporate income, tax deferrals, working from home in pyjamas, extra $300 child benefit per child per month, man they're in heaven. This is the dream. Why stop that?

Anyways, with all that aside, what is your perspective on that 10 year old shoe polisher above that can't get his $3-$5/day to buy a slice of bread because everyone is in lockdown? Is this such a deadly virus that we have to starve kids to death?

 

[Kak]

Well folks.

The covid death toll in my county is 7.

The known suicides due to financial hardship in my county is 17 and counting.

The lockdowns are the biggest scam in the history of the world. They are an attack on a free way of life the likes of which we have never experienced.

Dennis Prager agrees with this. Scam.

 

[ChrisV]

Yeah sorry I'm not in the USA. I meant EI - employment insurance payments.

Anyways, so you got income coming in. I'm glad to hear.

My business was impacted originally, but it's picked up to normal levels since.

So let's forget about "us" as we're more than okay. We got money coming in, food, shelter, etc.

What about the poor? What about the 3rd world countries that have initiated lockdowns? What about that 10 year old kid that would normally polish shoes to make $3-$5/day to eat a slice of bread, has suddenly lost all his customers? What about him? What is he thinking? If you were in that kids position, what would your views be on lockdown vs no lockdown? I'm very curious to know.

I personally believe that the people advocating for extended lockdowns, besides the few outliers, couldn't give a sh*t about the health of others. What they care about is staying home and getting money. People are starting to realize that they can get used to staying home. People are starting to realize that they really do hate their jobs. Do you know how many people are taking advantage of these Government programs in Canada? Even though the Government will get the money back from those that abuse the programs, the simple act of "lying" or falsely applying to get funds even though you haven't been impacted, says a lot about the motives of these people. These are the same people that are deferring their mortgages for 6 months even though not one person has lost their job in their household. These are the same people advocating for extended lockdowns. So no mortgage, an additional $2k/month (in Canada) + corporate income, tax deferrals, working from home in pyjamas, extra $300 child benefit per child per month, man they're in heaven. This is the dream. Why stop that?

Anyways, with all that aside, what is your perspective on that 10 year old shoe polisher above that can't get his $3-$5/day to buy a slice of bread because everyone is in lockdown? Is this such a deadly virus that we have to starve kids to death?

I'm not sure where I said I'm in favor of prolonging lockdown.

For the record I'm pro-reopening.

I'm just anti-logical fallacies in making that case.

I think certain states should open up. I really think it should be decided on a 'per county' basis rather than 'per state', but that's probably too much to ask. Then we just keep an eye on things and make sure things don't get out of control. I think we'll be fine because people are going to be careful.

If hospitals aren't being inundated, they should open.

But every area is so different that you can't just apply a blanket policy across the board.

I'm not pro-lockdown or anti-lockdown.

At this point I think it's an absurd notion. Spain, Italy, France are lifting their lockdowns. There's no real reason the US needs to remain on lockdown. We made it over the hump.

Note: I'm not interested in debating or arguing this position, but it is my belief that the economic downturn would have been significantly worse had we not acted fast. I blame the virus itself, not the lockdowns. Again, not interested in debating that point, but I have well substantiated reasons for feeling that way. Heres' one article.

I'm sorry your business has been impacted, and business had slowed down for me as well.

Countries where children shine shoes - I haven't formed an opinion on those countries.. my statements so far have been in regards to the US.

 

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[James Klymus]

Dennis Prager agrees with this. Scam.

View attachment 32642

If only government could be held accountable

 

[MoneyDoc]

I'm not sure where I said I'm in favor of prolonging lockdown.




At this point I think it's an absurd notion. Spain, Italy, France are lifting their lockdowns. There's no real reason the US needs to remain on lockdown. We made it over the hump.

Note: I'm not interested in debating or arguing this position, but it is my belief that the economic downturn would have been significantly worse had we not acted fast. I blame the virus itself, not the lockdowns. Again, not interested in debating that point, but I have well substantiated reasons for feeling that way. Heres' one article.

I'm sorry your business has been impacted, and business had slowed down for me as well.

Countries where children shine shoes - I haven't formed an opinion on those countries.. my statements so far have been in regards to the US.

Fair enough.

But I agree with you - lockdowns are an absurd notion, especially now. At first, I think it was still questionable but I can see why it was justified in some peoples perspective. Nobody really knew about the virus as much as we do now. Whether the lockdowns were a mistake in the beginning or not, it doesn't matter anymore. It's passed.

But we got to act smarter now.

 

[James Klymus]

I'm not interested in debating or arguing this position

Again, not interested in debating that point

Thank god, I was getting tired of seeing all these graphs!

 

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[ChrisV]

@James Klymus - I can understand how they would strain your intellectual capacity.

But here you go:

Fair enough.

But I agree with you - lockdowns are an absurd notion, especially now. At first, I think it was still questionable but I can see why it was justified in some peoples perspective. Nobody really knew about the virus as much as we do now. Whether the lockdowns were a mistake in the beginning or not, it doesn't matter anymore. It's passed.

But we got to act smarter now.

New York Times has some cool models that if you play with them wil show you why it's pretty safe to reopen.

We did a 45 day lockdown and these are how the curves are projected afterwards

Opinion | Trump Wants to ‘Reopen America.’ Here’s What Happens if We Do. (Published 2020)

Many could die if we ease up too soon.

www.nytimes.com

Again, not interested in debating the accuracy of these models, it's just my strong opinion that they're useful.

All models are wrong, but some are useful - Wikipedia

 

[James Klymus]

Here you go @Pizza Boy


New York Times has some cool models that if you play with them wil show you why it's pretty safe to reopen.

We did a 45 day lockdown and these are how the curves are projected afterwards

Opinion | Trump Wants to ‘Reopen America.’ Here’s What Happens if We Do. (Published 2020)

Many could die if we ease up too soon.

www.nytimes.com

Again, not interested in debating the accuracy of these models, it's just my strong opinion that they're useful.

All models are wrong, but some are useful - Wikipedia

First we had graphs, now I'd like to introduce you to interactive graphs, The biggest thing to happen to graphs since graphs.

Slide em left, slide em right, play with them all night (Like Chris does).