The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[Black_Dragon43]

Ah yes, take their freedom away to force them to fight, for.. their freedom.

Freedom isn't free! It comes at a price! Which is... your.. freedom.

Gotcha.

But of course freedom isn't free. Freedom isn't natural. It's a man-made created order that is IMPOSED upon nature. What is natural is that might makes right, and the weak obey the mighty. That's the law of the jungle, that is nature.

Now man has carved something different out of nature - society. Human society is built by laws that we obey in order to live together, and give each other the freedoms we enjoy today. There is no "property" in the state of nature. Someone comes with a bat to your house and takes it. That's how things are in nature. The strong lion kills the weak lion, takes his female, and murders all his children. But we have laws, which we guarantee to each other, which makes property rights, freedom and human rights possible.

As much as you want to be an island, you cannot be independent from the web you find yourself in. If the web gets destroyed, there is no freedom left, no property left, nothing social left for you.

 

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[MattR82]

It's completely wrong of him to force these guys to stay in a war zone against their choice and leave their families to find refuge on their own.

 

[Kevin88660]

Short Sellers Clean Up on Russian Stocks

Short sellers have made about $1 billion from stocks like Sberbank and Gazprom — but they may have have a hard time realizing those gains.

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Potential Short squeeze when the Russian stocks resume trading?

 

[Cyberthal]

Hammering Russia economically is crazy, but if it's to intimidate China into not invading Taiwan, it may be working. It sure won't stop Russia. I'd expect the split to deepen.

 

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[c4n]

It's completely wrong of him to force these guys to stay in a war zone against their choice and leave their families to find refuge on their own.

Agreed. Whoever is asking or forcing people to fight or to stay in a war zone should be in first battle lines with skin in the game, not hiding in a bunker or behind a computer screen.

 

[Lex DeVille]

290 - Let's Take A Beat

Listen to this episode from The Tim Dillon Show on Spotify. Tim finds a solution to the Russian and Ukrainian war and saves the Summer America desperately needs, and discusses why the most expensive house in Los Angeles finally sold. Bonus episodes every week: ▶▶...

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[nothingness]

Do you know the laws of your own country? I'm pretty sure in a state of emergency every able bodied man is a soldier and can be instantly called to duty. The Western entitled mentality showing its teeth again...

Now maybe you want to argue that that is wrong, but so far I see no argument, just a statement.

Here's a novel idea, given your so called hate for Putin / Russia and totally ignorant defense for Ukraine only...why don't you go and fight for Ukraine??
I bet you won't.

You've been spamming this thread with your pro Zelensky rants, and I can't even block you because you made your profile private the moment you got any criticism from people.

 

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[DayIFly]

It's exactly the kinda of post-truth that Putin's philosopher Dugin is promoting. As he says, there is no truth, only conflicting interpretations. Google him. And read his book The Fourth Way. It is postmodernism at its finest. Post truth, everything you hate.

First, you failed to see through the Snake Island propaganda, then you mentioned Khodorkovsky as some sort of authority, when he's a textbook criminal, the antithesis of what it means to be an ethical entrepreneur. And now you're pushing Dugin, who receives more attention in the West than in Russia. Media coverage does not equate power or real influence. He was actually fired from Moscow State University. If you are interested, there are a couple of US think tanks who analyzed this in great detail. Their conclusion: A broken clock is still right twice a day. Google is your friend. But dude, you're like working along some kind of checklist, I can't keep up, it's too much and time is of the essence.

 

[Silverfox148]

Looks like the Poles are getting nervous, rightly or wrongly most of the deadly weapons being funneled into Ukraine are going through their air bases, especially one of which I don't remember the name. Putin will be forced to act in the next few days via escalation and call the NATO bluff on weapons coming into Ukraine via Poland.

A limited Cruise Misile Strike perhaps, whether you agree or not, funneling in the amount of weapons into Ukraine out in the open like this which are being used to kill Russian soldiers is untenable to Putin and the military.

We get closer to eventual combat between NATO members and Russia. Nobody looking for off ramps.

From the Polish Government.:

FAKE NEWS
Unfortunately you are spreading misinformation with quotation from 27/02/22. Poland won't send its fighter jets to #Ukraine as well as allow to use its airports. We significantly help in many other areas.

 

[otek]

Hammering Russia economically is crazy, but if it's to intimidate China into not invading Taiwan, it may be working. It sure won't stop Russia. I'd expect the split to deepen.

This could be one of the few silver linings. Had there been weak sanctions, easy capture for Putin, China probably would have been more encouraged to try to take Taiwan. Of course China could still try to attack, but likelihood could be lower now.

Taiwan's economy is over 1000 billion, Ukraine was around 150 billion.

Russias gdp is 1500 billion, China 14 700 billion (2020)

 

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[Cyberthal]

It occurs to me that the reason men are banned from leaving Ukraine may have more to do with capturing war criminals than civilian conscription for heroic last splatters versus Chechen urban combat specialists.

 

[Dan_Cardone]

My opinion on this whole situation: I have no opinion.

Opinions and conclusions, on most anything, should be formed with good, logical, and accurate data.

Since the data has been tampered with, skewed, manipulated, and flat out fabricated by ALL sides, I cannot form anything that even remotely resembles an accurate opinion on this whole fiasco.

I do not have 24 hours a day to sort through all of the information and separate fact from fiction nor do I believe I even have the qualifications to determine such a thing.

Many of the so called “experts” in these matters can’t even seem to agree.

I will say that many people are much to quick to ascribe “black and white” thinking to this conflict when in reality, I’m sure most everything is taking place in shades of grey.

 

[otek]

It's completely wrong of him to force these guys to stay in a war zone against their choice and leave their families to find refuge on their own.

In Finland we have mandatory service in army for all men. You will end up in jail If you refuse ( few excpections). During war time you would also end up in jail If you're "working age" men and tried to flee the country.

If these had not been in place, could very well have been that during world war 2 we would have lost our independence and be part of Russia now. Every men counted because the odds of defensive victory were not so great.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

In Finland we have mandatory service on army for all men. You will end up in jail If you refuse ( few excpections). During war time you would also end up on jail If you're "working age" men and try to flee the country.

If these had not been on place, could very well have been that during world war 2 we would have lost our independence and be part of Russia now. Every men counted because the odds of defensive victory were not so great.

The problem it seems is that many people who are vocal on this thread have little understanding of history and also suffer from the usual Western pampering that currently affects our societies. We’re used to too much comfort and too little discomfort. We cry for the smallest things “ughhh no bathrooms for trans!!” and then get shocked about the harsh realities of the world. We have grown too selfish - most people here value their own life over pretty much everything else, apart from possibly their family.

The hardness and virtues of the men who built the West is almost gone. Instead, we’re replaced by effeminate men who simply cannot, even if they wanted to, stand up for what’s right. As CS Lewis says, “men without chests”.

On another note, at the moment Putin is trembling because he fears a Russian revolution inside his own army and amongst the Russian people. Which, given Western sanctions and Putin’s failure in Ukraine, is likely to happen.

Even Russia’s allies are turning their backs.

 

[S.Y.]

We sure are less virtuous than men before us. Courage is lacking today. I certainly put myself in it.

Out of curiosity, what do you suggest we do in this case? What have you been doing?

You know I like Stoicism, Marcus Aurelius wrote "waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one". How have you been one in this conflict? What should we do?

 

[nothingness]

Ukraine is not my country, so I haven’t considered participating in its defense directly. But I am participating in defending the values that Ukraine stands for, and educating anyone who wants to understand what is going on. That is how I’m currently contributing.

So you're doing nothing then.

Also, I am not spamming. If you think I’m spamming it’s your duty to alert a moderator and have them intervene, reprimand me, and remove my “spam” posts. If not, you’re just bullshitting and showing you don’t know what you’re talking about.

You haven't broken any rules (that I know of) but you disabled the ability of people to block you. So now I'm forced to see it if I want to read the thread, and you post more than anyone else.
Your profile wasn't private before.

 

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[nothingness]

In Finland we have mandatory service in army for all men. You will end up in jail If you refuse ( few excpections). During war time you would also end up in jail If you're "working age" men and tried to flee the country.

If these had not been in place, could very well have been that during world war 2 we would have lost our independence and be part of Russia now. Every men counted because the odds of defensive victory were not so great.

Is it ironic that Finland is supposedly a "pioneer of feminism and equality" yet they only require mandatory service in the Armed forces for the patriarchial disposable gender? Great equality there.

 

[DayIFly]

The Snake Island “propaganda” was just lack of information, which I myself brought up as an example of mistakes that can happen later on in the thread.

This was not "just" a lack of information. It was laziness on your part fueled by extreme hatred. As long as the debunking doesn't reach mainstream news, you will conveniently display any and all "lack of information".

Khodorkovsky is an authority, here is a guy who was the richest man in Russia, AND decided to oppose Putin and push for a more open Russian society even if it cost him most of his money and 10 years of his life in prison. I’d like to see YOU do the same, but I guess you’d be like “yes master” to Putin instead. So I do respect Khodorkovsky for what he chose to do while he was on top of the world - fighting for the right thing. In addition Khodorkovsky KNOWS Putin and knows the system.

He was a criminal who was part of the privatization of an entity that was built on the backs of the normal hard-working population, and he defrauded them pennies-on-the-dollar. He basically stole this money from the population and became the richest man in Russia, what a hero. He blackmailed and killed people on the way to the top. I am not claiming that I have the ability to do business like him, but even if I could, I would never do such a thing, I would be ashamed, but it shows your moral standing if you applaud such a man. Then he became the golden boy of the West, because there's more money dealing with the West and they paid him handsomely trying to "open" Russia for Western oligarchs. I posted mainstream news to support this. Even the CIA reported his company's links to organized crime...

Regarding Dugin you should also speak about the reason why he was “removed”, because he openly and publically called for the murder of Ukrainians. Which means it’s a move to save face, not a disagreement that caused the removal.

You still haven't shown that he has any influence on Russian politics. He's on the fringes. If he were "Putin's philosopher", he wouldn't have been dismissed or he wouldn't have made such a blunder. He's just a philosopher who has particular views, who are known, and some people refer to him, just like some people in the US refer to their nut cases.

 

[c4n]

you disabled the ability of people to block you

Hover your mouse over his name next to a post and you will see the "Ignore" button.

Example on your name:

 

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[nothingness]

You are lying. My profile was ALWAYS private

I'm not. I can tell you why I'm not, and I wasn't going to bring this up here; you have a copywriting course I was interested in purchasing (because I am always looking to further my knowledge) but you posted here about how people who put countdown timers and special offers that fake limited time offers in their landing pages are unscrupulous....and you put a fake limited time offer in your own landing page for your own product LOL

Seen as you have a habit of telling people they are liars

HOT! - You WON'T Make BIG MONEY Until You Understand This... Even If You're Providing Value

Thank you for the Thread - I do like the idea of certainty - for me, it takes trust to another level where I feel more happy with the service/product.

www.thefastlaneforum.com

Yet from your landing page, where you do the fake limited time offer FIVE TIMES

I checked and this offer has always been this price with this "limited time discount"
So if we can't trust you to apply your own advice to your own landing pages, we are supposed to trust that you aren't lying in this thread?

And on this thread other members spotted your fake countdown timer and called you out on it

MARKETPLACE - How To Create A 100K-1M+ Sales Funnel

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And you resort to personal attacks in response. LOL

 

[Dan_Cardone]

In my view, the Russian people have a moral duty and obligation to go out into the streets and demand the immediate resignation of Vladimir Putin.

He cannot arrest or kill all of you, the Russian people will prevail over Putin.

Keep in mind, its easier to call others to action when you yourself need not fear the consequences of such action.

 

[Antifragile]

How is this thread still around?

There is censorship and there is dumpster fires.


As Nietzsche said: “madness is rare in individuals—but in groups, political parties, nations and eras, it’s the rule.”

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

How is this thread still around?

There is censorship and there is dumpster fires.


As Nietzsche said: “madness is rare in individuals—but in groups, political parties, nations and eras, it’s the rule.”

In my opinion, the thread has been civil for the most part. Sure, a lot of disagreement, but most people have been civil and agreed to disagree. A lot of different point of views were put forward.

There were a few outbreaks such as the one above (which you liked, by the way, hence approving it even though it’s totally off topic), which attempted to take the thread off course and veer into personal issues and attacks. But for the most part these are the exceptions.

 

[Chapas]

In my view, the Russian people have a moral duty and obligation to go out into the streets and demand the immediate resignation of Vladimir Putin.

He cannot arrest or kill all of you, the Russian people will prevail over Putin.

What a naive worldview. Most people work 12 hours a day in Russia to support their family. Do you want a family father to go out into the streets, get arrested and not be able to support his family afterwards?

Man. I am in Southern Europe now. A tourist city. In the last 5 days I have come across many Ukrainian folks. Guess what. I didn't stumble upon them at a protest. It was at cafés and restaurants. Where are their moral obligations?

But yes, Russian people have moral duty and obligation to go out into the streets and protest.Just like the 300 million Americans that have been protesting for 30 years in a row now. Or the Israelis. Or the Saudis.

Sorry man. I get your point, but this is not how it works. My biggest wish is for Russia and the West to be best pals. And apart from your wish to bomb Moscow where all my wife's family lives I actually enjoy reading your point of view. This thread is weird, but it is still much better than most of the debate going on in other places. Hope it will not get removed!

 

[Chapas]

Btw, I work with a lot of Indian, Arabic and African clients. And I have never experienced such a 'hate' towards the West as in this past week. This double standard morality and hypocricy is going to backfire.

 

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[Chapas]

Thank you for your concern. I talk to my family daily, everyone is still safe.

Being an immigrant is always hard. While today it's being Russian, yesterday it was being Chinese because of the pandemic. During WW2 it was being Jewish and it generally sucks being anything but white.

What I am trying to say, this is temporary for being Russian but permanent for being an immigrant. Don't let this challenge get to you and adapt as best as you can.

Russians are not he enemy, Putin is. Anyone who doesn't get this is an idiot. The best solution is to become successful (ideally in business, and being here bodes well for that). The bigger your success, the more dumbass people look past your "immigrant = inferior" status.

Happy to hear that they are all still safe. Just out of curiousity. You might have mentioned it before, but where are they located? I know my friends family is in Lviv, and so far it seems like one of the safest places?

Agree. I am not much at risk since I am more Western than Russian tbf. But even though I am better at my Western language than 99 % of the locals, they still see me as a Russian. You can never run away from your roots. You have probably experienced this as well.

Hoping for this to end soon!

 

[EVMaso]

If anyone's interested, here's a website that does (in my opinion) spectacular analysis of the whole situation from a military perspective. Daily updates, minimal political angle. And maps!

Critical Threats

www.criticalthreats.org

Latest update: Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 6

 

[JordanK]

Interesting to see news reports that Biden has sent representatives to meet the Venezuelan government. Presumably to get access to their oil if the US & Europe decide to stop buying from the Russians. The previous administration sanctioned the Maduro government and recognized Juan Guaido as the new democratic president but obviously the Maduro government never fell. Looks like the US may reverse this position as a bigger and badder enemy has now appeared in Putin.

 

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[Chapas]

Interesting to see news reports that Biden has sent representatives to meet the Venezuelan government. Presumably to get access to their oil if the US & Europe decide to stop buying from the Russians. The previous administration sanctioned the Maduro government and recognized Juan Guaido as the new democratic president but obviously the Maduro government never fell. Looks like the US may reverse this position as a bigger and badder enemy has now appeared in Putin.

In the meantime Russian officials are visiting Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela. This will be 'interesting' to follow.

Btw, is Conor really buying Chelsea?

 

[BizyDad]

We are having a debate as old as democracy.

I don't always agree with him, and I don't want to sit here and tell people what they should do with their lives. Still, regarding his commentary about society, the rights of countries vs the rights of individuals, and more generally the discussion about good vs evil, I stand with Black Dragon.

This is not spam. Our great grandfather's generation would have called this common sense.

We don't teach civics anymore. Most people here probably can't define the meaning of virtue without Google. If we ask people on here to describe their highest virtues, I'm guessing many them would talk about independence, or honesty, or love of family.

Or they'd say "life above all".

Ugh. How banal.

A citizenry who values life above all is the weakest citizenry. They're the ones most easily swayed because all they have to do is feel threatened and they will take the path of least resistance. They will place security above other values. They will stay silent. They will lay down their arms. They will fall in line.

You can hear their echoes in this thread. I believe they are in the minority here.

They forget or never knew that path of least resistance is the one in which evil flourishes most.

That's the exact recipe needed for the rise of tyranny.

Alternatively, a citizenry full of individuals who are only concerned about themselves or their family's needs is almost as weak because they will never coalesce into the unified force that can be dealt with on even a regional stage. Divided they will fall.

These are facts that echo through the ages. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Those of you equating democracy to tyranny don't seem to understand the meaning of those words. You seem to be thinking that any form of government where you have a ruler over a populace is the same thing as tyranny. Just because you don't agree with your government doesn't mean you are ruled by a dictatorship.

Yes, it is hard to hear what Black Dragon has been saying. And if you take it point by point, you can try and feel more virtuous than he. Because if you're looking at the trees, then it is easy to see that life is better than death.

And this simplistic reasoning pervades debates in today's day and age. Debates based on memes. On tweets. Short concise sentences making points to score points, often stretching truths to incredulity. Face diapers are akin to slavery. Playing in the NBA is like slavery. Trump voters aren't fighting the racists in their own party - they must be racists themselves. In every political discussion if it goes on long enough, it's just a matter of time before somebody's accused of being a Nazi.

This simple-minded thinking is just arguing one tree at a time.

But I digress...

If you're looking at the forest, and you see BD's points in total, it is difficult to prove him wrong. He obviously has made a study of governance, civics, and what it means to be a nation.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting everything he said is right. Obviously, you definitely pay the ransom. You don't bomb Moscow. And I have no idea who this author philosopher guy from Russia is. So I'm not making a commentary of everything he said.

That would be talking about each tree and I agree a couple of his trees should be chopped down.

But he's got the right forest. I cannot dispute that.

Just look at the last time the world had no countries. What was our population? What is our population now?

Ergo, if you're trying to maximize human life, if that really is the highest value you have, if just the mere act of having bodies breathing is the ultimate goal, then countries is one of the best innovations in history for doing so.

That is so self evident that it shouldn't even be in dispute.

Countries allow for an allocation of resources that family units or tribes or city states can never hope to achieve. Innovation in art and science and philosophy have achieved a whole new level since the advent of countries.

This is why it's always important to learn. Some of you probably don't even realize that you're advocating going back to the stone ages. Our education system has been gutted.

More importantly, our family system has been gutted. These lessons are supposed to be handed down from father to son and father to son. But something has been lost in translation. Why?

Because good times create weak men.

And weak men like to say things like the government shouldn't be able to blah blah blah.

Now I believe there are at least a few people on this forum who truly live the ideal of individualism. They live off grid. They grow their own food. They have provided for their own defense. They don't ask for handouts from anybody.

And those men also like to say things like the government shouldn't be able to blah blah blah.

And when they come on to argue their anarcho-capitalistic views, I find it difficult to debate them, because they are living consistent to their values.

That's virtuous.

For that type, the debate is personal. I when I try discuss the role of society, they take it personally. And then it comes off like I'm trying to judge how they are living, when in actuality, I have a lot of respect for how they live. So I've learned that debating them is difficult.

The kumbaya life of the Anarcho capitalist only works if there are no Hitlers in the world. And the only way that happens is divine intervention.

The vast majority of us on this forum are not this type of person. Most people here benefit from society. We do not reject the benefits of society as those few born of sterner stock do.

So for many here, crying about a citizen's duty to society is hypocritical, imo. They want all of the benefits, and none of the responsibility.

That is a hallmark of the times we are living in. No duty to anyone but family. No sense of honor. n crying out for ultimate independence, without truly taking the requisite action to achieve it, these men have become slaves to their self.

If you can find some corner of the world that is peaceful, and peaceful for the rest of your life, go for it. Enjoy it. Thank God for it.

Even better, if you can make some corner of the world into this version of existence, without trampling on the rights of others, I applaud you for truly living.

For the rest, be prepared to understand the meaning of hard times make tough men.

Btw, I work with a lot of Indian, Arabic and African clients. And I have never experienced such a 'hate' towards the West as in this past week. This double standard morality and hypocricy is going to backfire.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely curious and I don't want to assume I know what you mean.

Are the clients in agreement with Russia? Or they hate the West's reaction because they think the West is just as bad? A little of both?

If anyone's interested, here's a website that does (in my opinion) spectacular analysis of the whole situation from a military perspective. Daily updates, minimal political angle. And maps!

Critical Threats

www.criticalthreats.org

Thank you for this share. I just glanced at a couple of the articles and I can tell I'm going to spend days reading this site.

I'm so happy you shared this. Which is weird to say, considering this whole site is about conflicts going on in the world. Anyways, thank you again.

Interesting to see news reports that Biden has sent representatives to meet the Venezuelan government. Presumably to get access to their oil if the US & Europe decide to stop buying from the Russians. The previous administration sanctioned the Maduro government and recognized Juan Guaido as the new democratic president but obviously the Maduro government never fell. Looks like the US may reverse this position as a bigger and badder enemy has now appeared in Putin.

These negotiations have been going on a while. I first read about them in October. It does appear to be a reversal on a policy shift of a few previous administrations.